[ANN] Terracoin (TRC) - Est 2012

[clockuniverse]

What I suggest is to firstly implement a better difficulty adjust algorithm to protect the chain from potential threat of malicious mining power.
If we can decide the proper algorithm, we can go toward the direction to implement it.

However, I don't like the idea to increase the block size as it's not the necessary thing for Terracoin. It don't need to be popular but it should be secured.

I can agree with this sentiment. The retarget is a little lackluster right now. This could be improved upon. Also, we are still a good bit away from the block halving and there are plenty of TRC that have not yet been mined so I don't see the block reward increase as necessary.

I also agree with sentiment.  Making TRC secure is a prime goal, and we are going to have to hard fork it pretty much no matter what, so let's pick what is best now.  The reason I was suggesting BCT XT was to avoid the community chaos that happened to the BCT community when the the block size did get large enough.  I was under the impression that with the BCT XT code the block size wouldn't double until 75% of the miners "agreed" to it.

What difficulty adjust algorithm would you suggest?

[1715323989]

1715323989

[1715323989]

1715323989

[hanzac]

What I suggest is to firstly implement a better difficulty adjust algorithm to protect the chain from potential threat of malicious mining power.
If we can decide the proper algorithm, we can go toward the direction to implement it.

However, I don't like the idea to increase the block size as it's not the necessary thing for Terracoin. It don't need to be popular but it should be secured.

I can agree with this sentiment. The retarget is a little lackluster right now. This could be improved upon. Also, we are still a good bit away from the block halving and there are plenty of TRC that have not yet been mined so I don't see the block reward increase as necessary.

I also agree with sentiment.  Making TRC secure is a prime goal, and we are going to have to hard fork it pretty much no matter what, so let's pick what is best now.  The reason I was suggesting BCT XT was to avoid the community chaos that happened to the BCT community when the the block size did get large enough.  I was under the impression that with the BCT XT code the block size wouldn't double until 75% of the miners "agreed" to it.

What difficulty adjust algorithm would you suggest?

What about the KimotoGravityWell and DarkGravityWave? But I think maybe we should test and play around instead of copy and paste.
Someone can implement it for the testnet first, then we can test for a while to see how it goes?

Did anyone recall how the time-warp attack happened to TRC last time?

[poblico]

What I suggest is to firstly implement a better difficulty adjust algorithm to protect the chain from potential threat of malicious mining power.
If we can decide the proper algorithm, we can go toward the direction to implement it.

However, I don't like the idea to increase the block size as it's not the necessary thing for Terracoin. It don't need to be popular but it should be secured.

Totally agree, what algorithms change best candidates come to mind? we'll have to merge from existing coins I guess.
Also agree no need to increase block size if it comes to that we'll be in a much better place I guess.

[craslovell]

What I suggest is to firstly implement a better difficulty adjust algorithm to protect the chain from potential threat of malicious mining power.
If we can decide the proper algorithm, we can go toward the direction to implement it.

However, I don't like the idea to increase the block size as it's not the necessary thing for Terracoin. It don't need to be popular but it should be secured.

I can agree with this sentiment. The retarget is a little lackluster right now. This could be improved upon. Also, we are still a good bit away from the block halving and there are plenty of TRC that have not yet been mined so I don't see the block reward increase as necessary.

I also agree with sentiment.  Making TRC secure is a prime goal, and we are going to have to hard fork it pretty much no matter what, so let's pick what is best now.  The reason I was suggesting BCT XT was to avoid the community chaos that happened to the BCT community when the the block size did get large enough.  I was under the impression that with the BCT XT code the block size wouldn't double until 75% of the miners "agreed" to it.

What difficulty adjust algorithm would you suggest?

What about the KimotoGravityWell and DarkGravityWave? But I think maybe we should test and play around instead of copy and paste.
Someone can implement it for the testnet first, then we can test for a while to see how it goes?

Did anyone recall how the time-warp attack happened to TRC last time?

Here's a thread recounting some of it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263953.0

If I recall correctly the difficulty retarget back then was standard adjustment per block for TRC

[clockuniverse]

@OP it may be prudent to remove Vircurex as a listed exchange for Terracoin, though it may be the only one right now.. I certainly wouldn't direct anyone to trade there at this time. Well at least without giving them a disclaimer first.

Also it looks like one or two of the pool links may be dead. The ones that are up seem to be operating just fine.

I looked into the Vircurex issues some more and I decided it does need a warning.  I didn't know it had recent issues.

Also, since we didn't get win the voting on Cryptopia it seemed like we need to take a different strategy.  Instead of trying to be the top DOT vote each week and possibly loosing all we invest in the voting, I think we should collect 5,000,000 DOT and just buy a spot.

This is my DOT address on Cryptopia for donations:  1N5qY9gqYSeoPwTcdm2zcRZebdMMTyBZrx

That address is only for DOT and once we get 5 Million DOT I won't be using it anymore.

It currently has 45,615 DOT in it.

Thanks!

[clockuniverse]

What I suggest is to firstly implement a better difficulty adjust algorithm to protect the chain from potential threat of malicious mining power.
If we can decide the proper algorithm, we can go toward the direction to implement it.

However, I don't like the idea to increase the block size as it's not the necessary thing for Terracoin. It don't need to be popular but it should be secured.

I can agree with this sentiment. The retarget is a little lackluster right now. This could be improved upon. Also, we are still a good bit away from the block halving and there are plenty of TRC that have not yet been mined so I don't see the block reward increase as necessary.

I also agree with sentiment.  Making TRC secure is a prime goal, and we are going to have to hard fork it pretty much no matter what, so let's pick what is best now.  The reason I was suggesting BCT XT was to avoid the community chaos that happened to the BCT community when the the block size did get large enough.  I was under the impression that with the BCT XT code the block size wouldn't double until 75% of the miners "agreed" to it.

What difficulty adjust algorithm would you suggest?

What about the KimotoGravityWell and DarkGravityWave? But I think maybe we should test and play around instead of copy and paste.
Someone can implement it for the testnet first, then we can test for a while to see how it goes?

Did anyone recall how the time-warp attack happened to TRC last time?

The original wallet is too outdated and can't even mine correctly.

Let's keep this first wallet release simple.  Once we have a working and updated wallet we can work towards actually improving how this cryptocurrency works.

Trust me, I want to work on all of these things in the future.  I have so many ideas, and I definitely don't want to be part of a copy and paste coin forever.

Let's stick with these things for now.

1. SHA-256 Algorithm
2. 42 Million coins (I don't think this should ever change)
3. 20 TRC per block
4. Merge mining

These are areas up for immediate discussion which hopefully we can agree on in a week.  I want to have a clear path for the developer(s) in a week.

1. Difficulty recalculation at 540 blocks.  Up/Down?
2. Reward halving at 1050000 blocks.  Up/Down?
3. Blocks generated every 2 minutes?  Up/Down?

I am not trying to disregard anyone's input, and I want more input like we have been getting.

I just feel like we need to stop the bleeding before the patient dies.

[hanzac]

What I suggest is to firstly implement a better difficulty adjust algorithm to protect the chain from potential threat of malicious mining power.
If we can decide the proper algorithm, we can go toward the direction to implement it.

However, I don't like the idea to increase the block size as it's not the necessary thing for Terracoin. It don't need to be popular but it should be secured.

I can agree with this sentiment. The retarget is a little lackluster right now. This could be improved upon. Also, we are still a good bit away from the block halving and there are plenty of TRC that have not yet been mined so I don't see the block reward increase as necessary.

I also agree with sentiment.  Making TRC secure is a prime goal, and we are going to have to hard fork it pretty much no matter what, so let's pick what is best now.  The reason I was suggesting BCT XT was to avoid the community chaos that happened to the BCT community when the the block size did get large enough.  I was under the impression that with the BCT XT code the block size wouldn't double until 75% of the miners "agreed" to it.

What difficulty adjust algorithm would you suggest?

What about the KimotoGravityWell and DarkGravityWave? But I think maybe we should test and play around instead of copy and paste.
Someone can implement it for the testnet first, then we can test for a while to see how it goes?

Did anyone recall how the time-warp attack happened to TRC last time?

The original wallet is too outdated and can't even mine correctly.

Let's keep this first wallet release simple.  Once we have a working and updated wallet we can work towards actually improving how this cryptocurrency works.

Trust me, I want to work on all of these things in the future.  I have so many ideas, and I definitely don't want to be part of a copy and paste coin forever.

Let's stick with these things for now.

1. SHA-256 Algorithm
2. 42 Million coins (I don't think this should ever change)
3. 20 TRC per block
4. Merge mining

These are areas up for immediate discussion which hopefully we can agree on in a week.  I want to have a clear path for the developer(s) in a week.

1. Difficulty recalculation at 540 blocks.  Up/Down?
2. Reward halving at 1050000 blocks.  Up/Down?
3. Blocks generated every 2 minutes?  Up/Down?

I am not trying to disregard anyone's input, and I want more input like we have been getting.

I just feel like we need to stop the bleeding before the patient dies.

I don't understand why you want merge mining. If we can improve the difficulty adjust algorithm, security will be better. All the other independent coins don't have merge mining.

[clockuniverse]

Everyone seemed to really like it earlier on in the thread.  You don't like it because it reduces independance?  If we decide to put out a simpler wallet first, just to get it updated then we don't need to put it in there.

Then we can bring up that topic once again for the more experimental wallet.


What do you think?

[craslovell]

I feel merge mining would bring interest back to Terracoin. Many people disregard the coin because of how abused it was in the past. As we can see now there seems to be limited interest in mining it at this point. Merge mining would bring a "standard" of hash power back to the TRC network. Of course difficulty would also follow suit.

I mean why the hell else does Dogecoin even exist at this point? The coin is essentially a big joke. Without merge mining I feel it would be another chain lost in the sea of alts.

[p3yot33at3r]

I don't understand why you want merge mining. If we can improve the difficulty adjust algorithm, security will be better. All the other independent coins don't have merge mining.

I'm not sure what merge mining has to do with independence. All coins are independent weather they are merge mined or not, you don't have to merge mine it, it's just another option that will bring in more miners & thus help secure the network & attract a wider user base, which is important if a coin is to become successful.

[clockuniverse]

Alright.  Sorry if keep posting demanding lists and goals.  We need to decide on a new wallet quickly because the old wallet is so seriously broken.

I don't see any reason not to do merge mining.  If six months or a year from now we want to change it, then that is fine.  I put the word "flexible" in the OP for this exact reason.  Updated list below...
 
42 Million coins (I don't think this should ever change)
20 TRC per block
Merge mining

These are areas up for immediate discussion which hopefully we can agree on in a week.  I want to have a clear path for the developer(s) in a week.

1. Different algorithm?  Hanzac mention a couple of interesting options.  (KimotoGravityWell and DarkGravityWave).  Stick with SHA-256? Yes/Now?
2. Difficulty recalculation at 540 blocks.  Up/Down?  (I have conflicting info on this either 540 or 2160)  Can we even change this with SHA-256? (This also depends on how you answer 1)
3. Reward halving at 1050000 blocks.  Up/Down?
4. Blocks generated every 2 minutes?  Up/Down?

The discussion is open!  Let's knock out 1-4 in the next three or four days.

Updated info:

Donate DOT to this address to get TRC on Cryptopia - 1N5qY9gqYSeoPwTcdm2zcRZebdMMTyBZrx - We are at 55615.  We will be straight up just buying our way onto Cryptopia when we have 5 million DOT.

Add the TRC Foundation on Twitter: @terracoin_trc (yes, that is the best name I could get)

[clockuniverse]

I support

Which part of the discussion do you support, my friend?

[hanzac]

I don't understand why you want merge mining. If we can improve the difficulty adjust algorithm, security will be better. All the other independent coins don't have merge mining.

I'm not sure what merge mining has to do with independence. All coins are independent weather they are merge mined or not, you don't have to merge mine it, it's just another option that will bring in more miners & thus help secure the network & attract a wider user base, which is important if a coin is to become successful.

One question:
If merge-mining is enabled, everyone will do merge-mining or not? Otherwise he will lose money?

If so, once TRC merge-mined with BTC, huge mining power will be thrown on TRC. In this case, personal mining will be obsolete. P2Pool could also be obsolete if there's no one works on the merge-mining option of p2pool server.
We should allow user to use their low hash machine (e.g. < 1T) to mine TRC otherwise it will not gain interest from ordinary people or newbies.

I will not against it if it's most people's decision, and you all know the downside of merge-mining.

[poblico]

Donate DOT to this address to get TRC on Cryptopia - 1N5qY9gqYSeoPwTcdm2zcRZebdMMTyBZrx - We are at 55615.  We will be straight up just buying our way onto Cryptopia when we have 5 million DOT.

Would you be willing to provide your username on cryptopia for direct transfer? (if not I'll just do a withdraw)

[p3yot33at3r]

I don't understand why you want merge mining. If we can improve the difficulty adjust algorithm, security will be better. All the other independent coins don't have merge mining.

I'm not sure what merge mining has to do with independence. All coins are independent weather they are merge mined or not, you don't have to merge mine it, it's just another option that will bring in more miners & thus help secure the network & attract a wider user base, which is important if a coin is to become successful.

One question:
If merge-mining is enabled, everyone will do merge-mining or not? Otherwise he will lose money?

If so, once TRC merge-mined with BTC, huge mining power will be thrown on TRC. In this case, personal mining will be obsolete. P2Pool could also be obsolete if there's no one works on the merge-mining option of p2pool server.
We should allow user to use their low hash machine (e.g. < 1T) to mine TRC otherwise it will not gain interest from ordinary people or newbies.

I will not against it if it's most people's decision, and you all know the downside of merge-mining.

If merge-mining is enabled, everyone will do merge-mining or not?

No. There are other merge mined coins out there with low hash rates - the coin still has to appeal to miners in the first place.

Otherwise he will lose money?

No. How?

If so, once TRC merge-mined with BTC, huge mining power will be thrown on TRC.

See above.

In this case, personal mining will be obsolete.

That depends on your costs. For many, personal mining has been obsolete for a while.

P2Pool could also be obsolete if there's no one works on the merge-mining option of p2pool server.

Merge mining is not just for p2pool, but p2pool is the easiest option for the home (independant?) miner to set-up merge mining, which is what you seem so concerned about. P2pool does not use a server, the nodes are the "servers" as you call them - it is completely decentralised, which adds to the security of the network. Also, TRC is already listed in the p2pool coins networks (although this might need to be updated depending on what changes are made to TRC, if any)

We should allow user to use their low hash machine (e.g. < 1T) to mine TRC otherwise it will not gain interest from ordinary people or newbies.

Anyone can mine it with any amount of hash at any time, weather it is merge mined or not. The fact is, the more miners that mine it (or any other crypto), the higher the diff will go - that is a fact of mining. If you want a coin that has permanently low diff, you will have to create a coin that nobody knows about & mine it yourself - it will of course be worthless, because nobody knows about it or mines it.

...and you all know the downside of merge-mining.

Please explain it to "us all". As I have already pointed out, not one single coin has failed due to merge mining, they have all benefited. How many coins have failed that aren't merge mined? Hundreds, with more following suit every week.

[hanzac]

I don't like debate, can we make poll here or in TRC block chain to decide if add the new features?

[clockuniverse]

Donate DOT to this address to get TRC on Cryptopia - 1N5qY9gqYSeoPwTcdm2zcRZebdMMTyBZrx - We are at 55615.  We will be straight up just buying our way onto Cryptopia when we have 5 million DOT.

Would you be willing to provide your username on cryptopia for direct transfer? (if not I'll just do a withdraw)

My username on Cryptopia is clockuniverse.

I will set up a poll about merge mining!

[craslovell]

KGW or DGW debate would be for the new difficulty retarget algo, not the mining algo. Personally I think mining algo should remain SHA256.

It's important to realize not everyone will be pleased with the eventual decisions made, that's why a mix of both quality and quantity of input are important.

If miners ever want to see TRC trading again for more than a penny or two, merge mining might be a must.

[p3yot33at3r]

I will set up a poll about merge mining!

I was under the impression that merge mining was already decided. Changing this due to one or two persons not understanding how merge mining works does not set a good president, plus people are not likely to vote for something they do not understand.

I have mined TRC for a long time now, but it has remained stagnant due to a lack of bringing anything new to the crypto table - it just doesn't have anything to entice miners to it. Enabling merge mining will change this. Personally, I want this coin to grow, but if it stays the same - that's OK too, but it will remain stagnant in it's current form unless merge mining is enabled.

[craslovell]

I will set up a poll about merge mining!

I was under the impression that merge mining was already decided. Changing this due to one or two persons not understanding how merge mining works does not set a good president, plus people are not likely to vote for something they do not understand.

I have mined TRC for a long time now, but it has remained stagnant due to a lack of bringing anything new to the crypto table - it just doesn't have anything to entice miners to it. Enabling merge mining will change this. Personally, I want this coin to grow, but if it stays the same - that's OK too, but it will remain stagnant in it's current form unless merge mining is enabled.

I am totally with you on this p3yot33at3r

You can't please everyone, but you can make the coin useful and enticing again. Merge mining will bring hundreds or thousands of new and old users back in to the TRC blockchain.

By the way everyone, logo contest thread has been created here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1375662.0

Take a look and give it a crack if you're feeling artistic