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neotrix
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February 10, 2013, 04:19:27 PM |
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It would be GOD DAMN HILARIOUS if BFL have a dozen confirmed received ASICs and AVALON still only have 2.5 in the wild after "shipping"  No what would be funnier that BFL with all their claims of chips being shipped to the U.S. found out that they never got shipped and they now have another 30 delay on the chips being shipped. LOL seeing you fools with your heads hung after 7-8 months of waiting. Fucking priceless. I'm also waiting to see what's going to happend with BFL in next 15 days as I was sure they won't deliver in february even in March... Even if I hope for their customer they do respect finally theor word after 10 delay story... |
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In order to achieve higher forum ranks, you need both activity points and merit points.
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wknight
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 889
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin calls me an Orphan
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February 10, 2013, 04:34:02 PM |
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Nice to see the chips where shipped in bulk. I hope they have more chips on order since they have so many orders in place.
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Mining Both Bitcoin and Litecoin.
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Rawted
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February 10, 2013, 06:24:44 PM |
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Pringles.png
Don't pop your top just yet. They still need to be bumped, packaged, and most importantly, thoroughly tested.This ^^ Some of you are blind aren't you? There hasn't been really any tests on the BFL "chips" that are "on the way to the US". Hurry up and WAIT lol Suckerz....  I have to agree. I just posted a thread about this (that was deleted for some reason). These chips still have to make their way across the world to the US (i'm willing to bet they're not overnight airmailed....), assembled, and tested. That process alone will take weeks, and much longer if there's any sort of issues (let's face it, this is untested product - there will be issues). I was very late to the party (order number 18k), and i honestly don't expect to receive mine until well after the summer. I won't be able to get in early, or recoup my investment quickly, but let's face it - a jalapeno is going to be the minimum you'll need to make any sort of profit mining here very soon. |
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rchapoteau
Newbie
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Activity: 56
Merit: 0
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February 10, 2013, 07:36:00 PM |
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Josh has stated today that the Fedex tracking # shows it arriving at the bumping facility in California on Thursday. Personally I think they start shipping the final week of February, but we'll see.
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PuertoLibre
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1003
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February 11, 2013, 08:27:47 PM |
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About time  About DAMN time So if i bought one today, I am waiting untill November? bull shit... they better drop that price by $300 if they think I am waiting 7 months for delivery of the products. MFG costs should go down as time continues, or the Machines should have considerably more hashing power, or Power efficiency a year later. If you start off with a tiny 65nm process that is extremely densely packed... You can't expect that a 45nm or 32nm product to cost the same or less. It has to cost more. The only way to bring down the price is at the cost of profit. |
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MonsterZero
Member
Offline
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
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February 11, 2013, 08:32:26 PM |
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About time About DAMN time So if i bought one today, I am waiting untill November? bull shit... they better drop that price by $300 if they think I am waiting 7 months for delivery of the products. MFG costs should go down as time continues, or the Machines should have considerably more hashing power, or Power efficiency a year later. If you start off with a tiny 65nm process that is extremely densely packed... You can't expect that a 45nm or 32nm product to cost the same or less. It has to cost more. The only way to bring down the price is at the cost of profit. Die shrinks are popular among semiconductor companies, such as Intel, AMD (including the former ATI), NVIDIA, and Samsung for enriching their product lines. Examples in the 2000s include the codenamed Cedar Mill Pentium 4 processors (from 90 nm CMOS to 65 nm CMOS) and Penryn Core 2 processors (from 65 nm CMOS to 45 nm CMOS), the codenamed Brisbane Athlon 64 X2 processors (from 90 nm SOI to 65 nm SOI), and various generations of GPUs from both ATI and NVIDIA. In January 2010, Intel released Clarkdale Core i5 and Core i7 processors fabricated with a 32 nm process, down from a previous 45 nm process used in older iterations of the Nehalem processor microarchitecture. Die shrinks are beneficial to end-users as shrinking a die reduces the current used by each transistor switching on or off in semiconductor devices while maintaining the same clock frequency of a chip, making a product with less power consumption (and thus less heat production), increased clock rate headroom, and lower prices. |
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MrTeal
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
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February 11, 2013, 08:40:34 PM |
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About time About DAMN time So if i bought one today, I am waiting untill November? bull shit... they better drop that price by $300 if they think I am waiting 7 months for delivery of the products. MFG costs should go down as time continues, or the Machines should have considerably more hashing power, or Power efficiency a year later. If you start off with a tiny 65nm process that is extremely densely packed... You can't expect that a 45nm or 32nm product to cost the same or less. It has to cost more. The only way to bring down the price is at the cost of profit. Die shrinks are popular among semiconductor companies, such as Intel, AMD (including the former ATI), NVIDIA, and Samsung for enriching their product lines. Examples in the 2000s include the codenamed Cedar Mill Pentium 4 processors (from 90 nm CMOS to 65 nm CMOS) and Penryn Core 2 processors (from 65 nm CMOS to 45 nm CMOS), the codenamed Brisbane Athlon 64 X2 processors (from 90 nm SOI to 65 nm SOI), and various generations of GPUs from both ATI and NVIDIA. In January 2010, Intel released Clarkdale Core i5 and Core i7 processors fabricated with a 32 nm process, down from a previous 45 nm process used in older iterations of the Nehalem processor microarchitecture. Die shrinks are beneficial to end-users as shrinking a die reduces the current used by each transistor switching on or off in semiconductor devices while maintaining the same clock frequency of a chip, making a product with less power consumption (and thus less heat production), increased clock rate headroom, and lower prices. That's only true because you can fit more of the smaller dies on the same wafer, even though the wafer itself costs more. That doesn't take into account the NRE involved with the project though. In the case where volume is small like it is for BTC ASICs, you might never save enough per die to offset the cost of all the new tooling, let alone pass the savings on to your customers. |
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repentance
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February 11, 2013, 09:05:03 PM |
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Have BFL told people to start sending back their FPGAs yet? They said they would do this at least 7 days before shipping ASICs so it needs to happen in the next few days if they're planning to ship on 22 February.
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All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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PuertoLibre
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1003
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February 11, 2013, 09:09:29 PM |
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About time About DAMN time So if i bought one today, I am waiting untill November? bull shit... they better drop that price by $300 if they think I am waiting 7 months for delivery of the products. MFG costs should go down as time continues, or the Machines should have considerably more hashing power, or Power efficiency a year later. If you start off with a tiny 65nm process that is extremely densely packed... You can't expect that a 45nm or 32nm product to cost the same or less. It has to cost more. The only way to bring down the price is at the cost of profit. Die shrinks are popular among semiconductor companies, such as Intel, AMD (including the former ATI), NVIDIA, and Samsung for enriching their product lines. Examples in the 2000s include the codenamed Cedar Mill Pentium 4 processors (from 90 nm CMOS to 65 nm CMOS) and Penryn Core 2 processors (from 65 nm CMOS to 45 nm CMOS), the codenamed Brisbane Athlon 64 X2 processors (from 90 nm SOI to 65 nm SOI), and various generations of GPUs from both ATI and NVIDIA. In January 2010, Intel released Clarkdale Core i5 and Core i7 processors fabricated with a 32 nm process, down from a previous 45 nm process used in older iterations of the Nehalem processor microarchitecture. Die shrinks are beneficial to end-users as shrinking a die reduces the current used by each transistor switching on or off in semiconductor devices while maintaining the same clock frequency of a chip, making a product with less power consumption (and thus less heat production), increased clock rate headroom, and lower prices. The lower prices are due to mass volume production of other parts. Keep in mind BFL and Avalon are selling entire units. NOT single chips like those you cited. They (AMD, Intel etc) also sell hundreds of millions of units (chips) so the NRE costs are a tiny fraction of the total cost. Scale <--- makes the price come down. With ASIC's that is not the case. It is one batch for a few hundred people and only a number of wafers. (Up to a [low] multiple of 10,000 chips.) (Note: For example, BFL only did 6 wafers for around ~6000~ ASIC chips in their first batch) The cases and the rest of the components do not come down in price unless they establish a long term contract for the same parts. (in other words, not a single run) This is basic economics of scale. It should be extremely obvious. |
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MonsterZero
Member
Offline
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
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February 11, 2013, 09:15:53 PM |
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About time About DAMN time So if i bought one today, I am waiting untill November? bull shit... they better drop that price by $300 if they think I am waiting 7 months for delivery of the products. MFG costs should go down as time continues, or the Machines should have considerably more hashing power, or Power efficiency a year later. If you start off with a tiny 65nm process that is extremely densely packed... You can't expect that a 45nm or 32nm product to cost the same or less. It has to cost more. The only way to bring down the price is at the cost of profit. Die shrinks are popular among semiconductor companies, such as Intel, AMD (including the former ATI), NVIDIA, and Samsung for enriching their product lines. Examples in the 2000s include the codenamed Cedar Mill Pentium 4 processors (from 90 nm CMOS to 65 nm CMOS) and Penryn Core 2 processors (from 65 nm CMOS to 45 nm CMOS), the codenamed Brisbane Athlon 64 X2 processors (from 90 nm SOI to 65 nm SOI), and various generations of GPUs from both ATI and NVIDIA. In January 2010, Intel released Clarkdale Core i5 and Core i7 processors fabricated with a 32 nm process, down from a previous 45 nm process used in older iterations of the Nehalem processor microarchitecture. Die shrinks are beneficial to end-users as shrinking a die reduces the current used by each transistor switching on or off in semiconductor devices while maintaining the same clock frequency of a chip, making a product with less power consumption (and thus less heat production), increased clock rate headroom, and lower prices. The lower prices are due to mass volume production of other parts. Keep in mind BFL and Avalon are selling entire units. NOT single chips like those you cited. They (AMD, Intel etc) also sell hundreds of millions of units (chips) so the NRE costs are a tiny fraction of the total cost. Scale <--- makes the price come down. With ASIC's that is not the case. It is one batch for a few hundred people and only a number of wafers. (Up to a [low] multiple of 10,000 chips.) (Note: For example, BFL only did 6 wafers for around ~6000~ ASIC chips in their first batch) The cases and the rest of the components do not come down in price unless they establish a long term contract for the same parts. (in other words, not a single run) This is basic economics of scale. It should be extremely obvious. Interesting change of subject. You were speaking about nm scale production costs. You said "You can't expect that a 45nm or 32nm product to cost the same or less. It has to cost more. " Which is incorrect. It should be extremely obvious. |
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PuertoLibre
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1003
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February 11, 2013, 09:18:39 PM |
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Consider putting up for sale a 45nm ASIC. (Unit/powersupply/ASIC chips and all misc components.)
You are going to pay the design cost AND the mask etc.
Do you think it will cost you less or more to do business if you are only selling 5,000 units to a small community?
---------------------------
Now do the same only with 30,000,000 units. The price goes down, not up.
Everyone down the line has a contract with you in the latter scenario. Your costs go down as you buy parts in [true] bulk. Your quoted material costs per unit go down significantly compared to a tiny order.
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PuertoLibre
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1003
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February 11, 2013, 09:19:52 PM |
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About time About DAMN time So if i bought one today, I am waiting untill November? bull shit... they better drop that price by $300 if they think I am waiting 7 months for delivery of the products. MFG costs should go down as time continues, or the Machines should have considerably more hashing power, or Power efficiency a year later. If you start off with a tiny 65nm process that is extremely densely packed... You can't expect that a 45nm or 32nm product to cost the same or less. It has to cost more. The only way to bring down the price is at the cost of profit. Die shrinks are popular among semiconductor companies, such as Intel, AMD (including the former ATI), NVIDIA, and Samsung for enriching their product lines. Examples in the 2000s include the codenamed Cedar Mill Pentium 4 processors (from 90 nm CMOS to 65 nm CMOS) and Penryn Core 2 processors (from 65 nm CMOS to 45 nm CMOS), the codenamed Brisbane Athlon 64 X2 processors (from 90 nm SOI to 65 nm SOI), and various generations of GPUs from both ATI and NVIDIA. In January 2010, Intel released Clarkdale Core i5 and Core i7 processors fabricated with a 32 nm process, down from a previous 45 nm process used in older iterations of the Nehalem processor microarchitecture. Die shrinks are beneficial to end-users as shrinking a die reduces the current used by each transistor switching on or off in semiconductor devices while maintaining the same clock frequency of a chip, making a product with less power consumption (and thus less heat production), increased clock rate headroom, and lower prices. The lower prices are due to mass volume production of other parts. Keep in mind BFL and Avalon are selling entire units. NOT single chips like those you cited. They (AMD, Intel etc) also sell hundreds of millions of units (chips) so the NRE costs are a tiny fraction of the total cost. Scale <--- makes the price come down. With ASIC's that is not the case. It is one batch for a few hundred people and only a number of wafers. (Up to a [low] multiple of 10,000 chips.) (Note: For example, BFL only did 6 wafers for around ~6000~ ASIC chips in their first batch) The cases and the rest of the components do not come down in price unless they establish a long term contract for the same parts. (in other words, not a single run) This is basic economics of scale. It should be extremely obvious. Interesting change of subject. You were speaking about nm scale production costs. You said "You can't expect that a 45nm or 32nm product to cost the same or less. It has to cost more. " Which is incorrect. It should be extremely obvious. Wow, So then answer this: Why didn't BFL go for 45nm technology from the start? Any guesses? Edit: I think I understand your confusion. You think I am talking about the ASIC chips only and not the entire unit. NO, I am referring to the entire unit. No ASIC company to date sells their chips like an AMD or Intel. Adding NRE costs to a smaller nm does increase the number of chips. But if done wrong usually results in less viable chips due to tiny defects. AMD or Intel use binning and scale to get around that issue. As far as I know, I dont' see BFL or Avalon using binning techniques. |
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Monster Tent
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February 11, 2013, 10:27:33 PM |
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It would be GOD DAMN HILARIOUS if BFL have a dozen confirmed received ASICs and AVALON still only have 2.5 in the wild after "shipping" No what would be funnier that BFL with all their claims of chips being shipped to the U.S. found out that they never got shipped and they now have another 30 delay on the chips being shipped. LOL seeing you fools with your heads hung after 7-8 months of waiting. Fucking priceless. They will still be installing tables in March... |
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Unacceptable
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001
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February 11, 2013, 10:38:18 PM |
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About time About DAMN time So if i bought one today, I am waiting untill November? bull shit... they better drop that price by $300 if they think I am waiting 7 months for delivery of the products. MFG costs should go down as time continues, or the Machines should have considerably more hashing power, or Power efficiency a year later. Have you even read the BFL forums  If ordered today,you may possibly recieve your unit by April or May (2-3 months)...............If they ship by late Feb  More entitlement mentality |
"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole." -Raylan Givens Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan |
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Tomatocage
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1222
brb keeping up with the Kardashians
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February 11, 2013, 11:09:15 PM |
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Have you even read the BFL forums If ordered today,you may possibly recieve your unit by April or May (2-3 months)...............If they ship by late Feb More entitlement mentality That's a perfectly reasonable wait to me. I'll be happy if I can make 1 BTC/day with 60 GH/s. |
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Bogart
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
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February 12, 2013, 02:09:51 AM |
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About time About DAMN time So if i bought one today, I am waiting untill November? bull shit... they better drop that price by $300 if they think I am waiting 7 months for delivery of the products. MFG costs should go down as time continues, or the Machines should have considerably more hashing power, or Power efficiency a year later. Have you even read the BFL forums If ordered today,you may possibly recieve your unit by April or May (2-3 months)...............If they ship by late Feb More entitlement mentality Yea, well, that's what they (BFL) are saying right now. They also said they'd ship in October 2012. Look back at the FPGA product's history. They said it would ship around October 2011, and it ended up first shipping in March 2012. Then it wasn't until November 2012 (after they quit taking orders) that they finally got all of the orders caught up: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/36-fpgas-through10-5-shipping-today.html |
"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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Beta-coiner1
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February 12, 2013, 02:48:38 AM |
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Have you even read the BFL forums If ordered today,you may possibly recieve your unit by April or May (2-3 months)...............If they ship by late Feb More entitlement mentality That's a perfectly reasonable wait to me. I'll be happy if I can make 1 BTC/day with 60 GH/s. I'm also looking to get one soon enough but I definitely think one should would wait until others have received a product irregardless of the profit margin. |
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repentance
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February 12, 2013, 04:56:06 AM |
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The discounts on future orders for those who ordered in July and August have been announced. First months orders will get 25% off a future order. (Order dates June 23rd - July 24th)
Second months orders will get 10% off a future order. (Order dates July 25th - August 25th)
The 25% and 10% apply up to the value of your original order(s).
Example 1: Original first month order for $1000 worth of equipment, next order for $1500 worth of equipment, get $250 off the order.
Example 2: Original second month order for $1000 worth of equipment, next order for $500 worth of equipment, get $50 off the order.
We are doing it this way to prevent abuse such as someone ordering a Jalapeno, then getting 25% off the next order and ordering a Mini Rig. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/984-%5Bcustomer-appreciation%5D-discount-early-orderers-2.html#post14168 |
All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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nbtcminer
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February 12, 2013, 05:14:22 AM |
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The discounts on future orders for those who ordered in July and August have been announced. First months orders will get 25% off a future order. (Order dates June 23rd - July 24th)
Second months orders will get 10% off a future order. (Order dates July 25th - August 25th)
The 25% and 10% apply up to the value of your original order(s).
Example 1: Original first month order for $1000 worth of equipment, next order for $1500 worth of equipment, get $250 off the order.
Example 2: Original second month order for $1000 worth of equipment, next order for $500 worth of equipment, get $50 off the order.
We are doing it this way to prevent abuse such as someone ordering a Jalapeno, then getting 25% off the next order and ordering a Mini Rig. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/984-%5Bcustomer-appreciation%5D-discount-early-orderers-2.html#post14168+1 for BFL; I should make a two memes to celebrate this moment lol: Top Line: Screw up shipping on Batch #1? {insert picture of Avalon Pr0n} Bottomr line: Raises the prices for Batch #2 Top Line: BFL Delays Batch 1 ASICS for chip redsign [Insert pic of BFL_Josh with empty box] Bottom Line: Still manages to cut prices for early adopters (insert optional victory text) and delivers before the of Avalon batch #1 |
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