BFL: Chips have shipped, on their way to US

[creativex]

That seems a bit revisionist.

Saying the first guy "screws up shipping" is being remarkably charitable to guy 1...to say the very least.

The second guy moved his shipping date up. The price was set to increase to $1999 long ago as I recall.

...but hey, don't let the facts get in the way.

[1715065766]

1715065766

[1715065766]

1715065766

[nbtcminer]

...but hey, don't let the facts get in the way.

@CreativeX - you've been here long enough to know that this is how you're supposed to argue on the forums, don't 'cha know!

I do know...I just refuse to conform. Now if you'll excuse me I have an afternoon of ripping tags off pillows planned.

just use the ignore button for this kind of scum...

...but then I wouldn't get to read what you write?!?

I loled at both the memes and your response. Facts so far are that neither company has really shipped their first batch and that we're (as a community) are greatly anticipating their shipments. Having said that, I really would like to see both companies succeed; having one source for mining gear is not preferably as it would leave too much power in the hands of the manufacturer. 

[creativex]

...but hey, don't let the facts get in the way.

@CreativeX - you've been here long enough to know that this is how you're supposed to argue on the forums, don't 'cha know!

I do know...I just refuse to conform. Now if you'll excuse me I have an afternoon of ripping tags off pillows planned.

just use the ignore button for this kind of scum...

...but then I wouldn't get to read what you write?!?

I loled at both the memes and your response. Facts so far are that neither company has really shipped their first batch and that we're (as a community) are greatly anticipating their shipments. Having said that, I really would like to see both companies succeed; having one source for mining gear is not preferably as it would leave too much power in the hands of the manufacturer.

Agreed. While currently I've only a vested interest in one of the two vendors referenced above, I do not believe a situation where one company has a monopoly would be good for BTC or me personally.

Just the same the old adage still holds up, that if you repeat something that's false enough times it is eventually perceived as fact. Perhaps the editor of that pic is simply unaware that Avalon announced a $1999 price tag for batch 2 units long ago and that $1499 is actually a discount to that price, or that they had actually moved their shipping date up.

[PuertoLibre]

The discounts on future orders for those who ordered in July and August have been announced.

First months orders will get 25% off a future order. (Order dates June 23rd - July 24th)
Second months orders will get 10% off a future order. (Order dates July 25th - August 25th)

The 25% and 10% apply up to the value of your original order(s).

Example 1: Original first month order for $1000 worth of equipment, next order for $1500 worth of equipment, get $250 off the order.
Example 2: Original second month order for $1000 worth of equipment, next order for $500 worth of equipment, get $50 off the order.

We are doing it this way to prevent abuse such as someone ordering a Jalapeno, then getting 25% off the next order and ordering a Mini Rig.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/984-%5Bcustomer-appreciation%5D-discount-early-orderers-2.html#post14168

So much for "steep" discounts.

Next, they will say they aren't bumping the speed up to 80GH/s for the extra 45day wait period. (Like they did for the first 45 days)

I guess they came to their senses that if they gave a majority of their users a "real" steep discount, then they would have trouble covering the costs with Gen 2.

[PuertoLibre]

...but hey, don't let the facts get in the way.

@CreativeX - you've been here long enough to know that this is how you're supposed to argue on the forums, don't 'cha know!

I do know...I just refuse to conform. Now if you'll excuse me I have an afternoon of ripping tags off pillows planned.

just use the ignore button for this kind of scum...

...but then I wouldn't get to read what you write?!?

I loled at both the memes and your response. Facts so far are that neither company has really shipped their first batch and that we're (as a community) are greatly anticipating their shipments. Having said that, I really would like to see both companies succeed; having one source for mining gear is not preferably as it would leave too much power in the hands of the manufacturer. 

On that I think we can all agree on.

[Korbman]

@CreativeX - you've been here long enough to know that this is how you're supposed to argue on the forums, don't 'cha know!

I do know...I just refuse to conform. Now if you'll excuse me I have an afternoon of ripping tags off pillows planned.

Good plan. I've been working on the mattress tags

I do not believe a situation where one company has a monopoly would be good for BTC or me personally.

I completely agree. Was there ever a situation when a monopoly was good for a community or society (besides winning the board game, of course )? Competition has a habit of driving innovation and lower costs.

[CoinHoarder]

Yea, those poor poor first two month customers... they get their ASIC 4 months ahead of later customers, and then get to mine at low difficulty before the network implodes on itself making a ton of money... I truly pity them. I guess we better give them a discount on future products, that will fix the error. The later customers are the ones getting screwed here, lol to give discounts to the first 2 months... those guys are going to make a killing anyways.....  

[repentance]

Yea, those poor poor first two month customers... they get their ASIC 4 months ahead of later customers, and then get to mine at low difficulty before the network implodes on itself making a ton of money... I truly pity them. I guess we better give them a discount on future products, that will fix the error. The later customers are the ones getting screwed here, lol to give discounts to the first 2 months... those guys are going to make a killing anyways.....  

Josh has actually explained BFL's reasoning on doing it this way.  Essentially, it's that the people who ordered in the first two months are being compensated for not having their units before the block reward halved.  He maintains that customers who ordered later will be no more disadvantaged than they would have been had BFL delivered on time (because the block reward would have halved by the time they got their units and difficulty would have increased after the shipping of the first batch of orders anyway).

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/984-%5Bcustomer-appreciation%5D-discount-early-orderers-5.html#post14252

[Korbman]

Yea, those poor poor first two month customers... [...] I guess we better give them a discount on future products, that will fix the error.

Yeah, we definitely don't deserve any discounts after waiting 8 months and sitting through 3 (or was it 4..) postponements

And..

Josh has actually explained BFL's reasoning on doing it this way.  Essentially, it's that the people who ordered in the first two months are being compensated for not having their units before the block reward halved.  He maintains that customers who ordered later will be no more disadvantaged than they would have been had BFL delivered on time (because the block reward would have halved by the time they got their units and difficulty would have increased after the shipping of the first batch of orders anyway).

This.

I was typing this up as well, but it seems Repentance stated it better than I could

[CoinHoarder]

Josh has actually explained BFL's reasoning on doing it this way.  Essentially, it's that the people who ordered in the first two months are being compensated for not having their units before the block reward halved.  He maintains that customers who ordered later will be no more disadvantaged than they would have been had BFL delivered on time (because the block reward would have halved by the time they got their units and difficulty would have increased after the shipping of the first batch of orders anyway).

I read their reasoning, it still makes little sense, later customers were screwed just as much.

How are later customers not effected by BFL delaying 4 months? They would have had their ASIC already if they started shipping in October like they were supposed to. Because of their mistakes, there will now be hundreds of Avalon ASICs released before later customers even get their ASIC, thus increasing difficulty and costing them each money (maybe about 2 months of avalon-free network profits.)

EDIT: You guys are first two month order holders, making you biased. I on the other hand have no orders from BFL at the moment. If I was a later BFL customer I would be pissed.

[repentance]

I was typing this up as well, but it seems Repentance stated it better than I could

For the record, I'm not necessarily endorsing it - just explaining it.  Obviously it's a scheme which only benefits those who order additional units from BFL before the vouchers expire, so people have to spend more money with BFL in order to receive any compensation.  It's a simple model from BFL's point of view and one which will stimulate more sales.

You guys are first two month order holders, making you biased. I on the other hand have no orders from BFL at the moment. If I was a later BFL customer I would be pissed.

No I'm not.  I think ASIC vendors are the only ones who'll benefit from the mining hardware arms race and miners themselves are going to just get locked into a vicious cycle of having to spend more and more money on hardware to retain the same share of the mining pie.  That's one reason I think the fanboy-ism is so ridiculous.  The arrival of ASICs will effectively lock many people out of mining and that has implications for Bitcoin as a whole.

[Beyondo]

Josh has actually explained BFL's reasoning on doing it this way.  Essentially, it's that the people who ordered in the first two months are being compensated for not having their units before the block reward halved.  He maintains that customers who ordered later will be no more disadvantaged than they would have been had BFL delivered on time (because the block reward would have halved by the time they got their units and difficulty would have increased after the shipping of the first batch of orders anyway).

I read their reasoning, it still makes little sense, later customers were screwed just as much.

How are later customers not effected by BFL delaying 4 months? They would have had their ASIC already if they started shipping in October like they were supposed to. Because of their mistakes, there will now be hundreds of Avalon ASICs released before later customers even get their ASIC, thus increasing difficulty and costing them each money (maybe about 2 months of avalon-free network profits.)

EDIT: You guys are first two month order holders, making you biased. I on the other hand have no orders from BFL at the moment. If I was a later BFL customer I would be pissed.

Were you ordering in the confusion on day 1? No?  So you didn't understand the frenzy and worry that people had.  Everybody moved their $ into BTC so they could pay.  I didn't even bother to fuck around with Dwolla/MtGox which was having 1 month delays at some point.  I just paid a flat 209 BTC for an SC Single - which now is the equivalent of $25x208 - that's over $5k.  Sure many say you count the hedge, but at that time BTC was the only payment they said they would take on day #1.  After a couple days people were able to pay with wire payments but even that was confusing as to whether payment date or order date would count as purchase time.

I tried to get into the clusterfuck that was Avalon both times and failed.

Why not complain about those who mined thousands of coins with CPUs back in the day...

[Unacceptable]

Josh has actually explained BFL's reasoning on doing it this way.  Essentially, it's that the people who ordered in the first two months are being compensated for not having their units before the block reward halved.  He maintains that customers who ordered later will be no more disadvantaged than they would have been had BFL delivered on time (because the block reward would have halved by the time they got their units and difficulty would have increased after the shipping of the first batch of orders anyway).

I read their reasoning, it still makes little sense, later customers were screwed just as much.

How are later customers not effected by BFL delaying 4 months? They would have had their ASIC already if they started shipping in October like they were supposed to. Because of their mistakes, there will now be hundreds of Avalon ASICs released before later customers even get their ASIC, thus increasing difficulty and costing them each money (maybe about 2 months of avalon-free network profits.)

EDIT: You guys are first two month order holders, making you biased. I on the other hand have no orders from BFL at the moment. If I was a later BFL customer I would be pissed.

Were you ordering in the confusion on day 1? No?  So you didn't understand the frenzy and worry that people had.  Everybody moved their $ into BTC so they could pay.  I didn't even bother to fuck around with Dwolla/MtGox which was having 1 month delays at some point.  I just paid a flat 209 BTC for an SC Single - which now is the equivalent of $25x208 - that's over $5k.  Sure many say you count the hedge, but at that time BTC was the only payment they said they would take on day #1.  After a couple days people were able to pay with wire payments but even that was confusing as to whether payment date or order date would count as purchase time.

I tried to get into the clusterfuck that was Avalon both times and failed.

Why not complain about those who mined thousands of coins with CPUs back in the day...

+1

I had to juggle several accounts to get the BTC ready to order on day 1,but instead It took several more hours for me get  it together.So I got in on day 2 instead,it was a mad race for me 

It's not our or BFL's fault you didn't get to order in the first month or 2................We should be rewarded for our patience & sacrifice 

[hardcore-fs]

Maybe it would be better if josh sticks to arguing about how much Electricity he has save you by not shipping early....... even tie it into something about saving the Whales,  Everybody loves whales (except maybe the Japanese).

The block halving is basically irrelevant... the fact is that people were promised delivery, so for some people there has been a loss of income based on the fact that they have not been mining... even worse are the people who  sold their equipment ready for BFL.

Let us also not forget that Fantasy boy has NOT EVEN delivered any kit yet, but is already moving onto his next project of corporate mining.......

[Inspector 2211]

Josh just updated his status thread: The chips have arrived at the bumping facility.

[PuertoLibre]

Point is, they (BFL) short changed and shafted their customers. Giving discounts to some and a big FU to the September till now customers.

You don't have to be a genius to see that.

[Beyondo]

I had skin in BFLs game and when I saw Foundry/Garzik get those beasts I was mad as hell.  Hey, I just misplaced over 200BTC for what - to see another company beat me to the punch.  And then they were getting ready to offer a second batch.  Man did I really feel bent over.  Then comes the news that supposedly we will be getting our unicorn blood made machines and now all is right.... no wait, I now need to bitch about others.

You don't see people with 09/12/12 orders complaining that people with 09/28/12 orders had to pay less in BTC because the BTC exchange rate went up.  Do people who buy rookie year cards after some sports figure authority becomes famous complain that others got said card cheaper.

BFL is choosing to reward those who got in very early. Why not bitch that the FPGA hashers are getting an unfair advantage because they were able to hash more with their devices and recoup more of their investment.  Unfortunately they need to draw the line with the goodies somewhere.  Are people going to bitch if the September + orders end up fixing a glitch seen in the early releases?  What if they hash better? 

[creativex]

Aren't they merely giving some early investors a discount on future purchases? If so isn't this also of diminishing value given the lengthy delays that have allowed Avalon to ship first, and someone(likely ASICMiner) to get 1.1TH+ hashing ahead of them?

[The-Real-Link]

Josh just updated his status thread: The chips have arrived at the bumping facility.

Bumping this to the new page so people can see it if they missed it.

The Bumping Facility should start processing the chips on the 14th.  Whether that's due to a queue delay or something else, who knows.  But they should be in and out soon enough and onto the next step.

Thank you.  It is indeed confirmed on their update page.  Thanks Josh.

[repentance]

Josh just updated his status thread: The chips have arrived at the bumping facility.

Bumping this to the new page so people can see it if they missed it.

The Bumping Facility should start processing the chips on the 14th.  Whether that's due to a queue delay or something else, who knows.  But they should be in and out soon enough and onto the next step.

Thank you.  It is indeed confirmed on their update page.  Thanks Josh.

Josh's recent posts have said that the earliest the bumping facility will process BFL's order is 14 February. 

We will hopefully hear from the bumping facility tonight or tomorrow with regards to them, but I do not expect any movement on it until the 14th at the earliest.

What's not clear is how any slip in the bumping facility schedule will affect the other steps.  Josh said they'd give people at least 7 days notice to ship back their FPGAs, so that should happen in the next couple of days if they're going to meet the 22 February target date.