⚡[ANN]⚡ ▐░Espers [ESP]░▌▐░PoW/PoS░▌▐░HMQ1725 Algo░▌ ▐░New Features░▌

[Dabs]

The supply for ESP2 matches the mined supply of ESP1. Those who do not swap will have their coins automatically "donated" to the promotion of ESP through social media promotions, partnerships and other ventures to further the project.

Somehow I had in the back of my mind that those coins would be burned? Essentially you are making, what used to be owned by other people, yours again. I'm not quite sure if this is 100% politically correct? 

I am not saying that you don't deserve these coins, but think about this case: Let's say you would have had a pre-mine of 1% in ESP 1 to use it for promotions etc., and 19% would have been mined in total using lots of computing power. So next you would pre-mine 20% for the swap, but only 10% would actually be swapped. And now you want to claim the remaining 10% as yours? This is essentially a huge additional pre-mine, I'm not sure if that is what you truly want. Which amount would we be talking about right now btw.?

You'll have to ask both them and Novaexchange, how much ESP1 was actually swapped, and how much ESP2 was left over. These "leftovers" can be spent on promotions, bounties, signature campaigns, contest on best ideas, best pictures, best logos... It can be used to fund external block explorers. Promotion promotion promotion.

You could ask someone else other than the team to hold these funds too, if they are all meant for promotions, or they can hold it all in one address that everyone can see. Currently, they are holding it all anyways. The idea is to give it all away.

[.cryptic.]

The supply for ESP2 matches the mined supply of ESP1. Those who do not swap will have their coins automatically "donated" to the promotion of ESP through social media promotions, partnerships and other ventures to further the project.

Somehow I had in the back of my mind that those coins would be burned? Essentially you are making, what used to be owned by other people, yours again. I'm not quite sure if this is 100% politically correct?  

I am not saying that you don't deserve these coins, but think about this case: Let's say you would have had a pre-mine of 1% in ESP 1 to use it for promotions etc., and 19% would have been mined in total using lots of computing power. So next you would pre-mine 20% for the swap, but only 10% would actually be swapped. And now you want to claim the remaining 10% as yours? This is essentially a huge additional pre-mine, I'm not sure if that is what you truly want. Which amount would we be talking about right now btw.?

You'll have to ask both them and Novaexchange, how much ESP1 was actually swapped, and how much ESP2 was left over. These "leftovers" can be spent on promotions, bounties, signature campaigns, contest on best ideas, best pictures, best logos... It can be used to fund external block explorers. Promotion promotion promotion.

You could ask someone else other than the team to hold these funds too, if they are all meant for promotions, or they can hold it all in one address that everyone can see. Currently, they are holding it all anyways. The idea is to give it all away.

The amount of coins swapped so far is here https://novaexchange.com/coinswap/

There are people like me, who was never part of any free give aways, but is buying this coin from the market.
Keeping all the unswapped coins for further promotion/free distribution is like a slap in the face of investors.
I understand that the devs are not worried about the price of the coin, but people who buy this coin from the market are.
I want to see the value of my coin grow over time, not getting diluted with further inflation.

Lets see how much coins are there unswapped at the end of the swap deadline.

[Vin]

If someone is interested to get Espers listed on:

http://www.cryptofolio.info

Please vote (no registration required):

http://www.cryptofolio.info/welcome/vote

Lets vote espers!!!  

I added the logo let's go team

Thanks for adding the logo.
And to quote me

[CryptoCoderz]

What is the current supply of ESP?
So far 111bln has been swapped.

Did you consider burning the unswapped coin?

It is up for consideration, however promotions and future giveaways are also a tempting idea.

The supply for ESP2 matches the mined supply of ESP1. Those who do not swap will have their coins automatically "donated" to the promotion of ESP through social media promotions, partnerships and other ventures to further the project.

Somehow I had in the back of my mind that those coins would be burned? Essentially you are making, what used to be owned by other people, yours again. I'm not quite sure if this is 100% politically correct?  

I am not saying that you don't deserve these coins, but think about this case: Let's say you would have had a pre-mine of 1% in ESP 1 to use it for promotions etc., and 19% would have been mined in total using lots of computing power. So next you would pre-mine 20% for the swap, but only 10% would actually be swapped. And now you want to claim the remaining 10% as yours? This is essentially a huge additional pre-mine, I'm not sure if that is what you truly want. Which amount would we be talking about right now btw.?

The unswapped coins would be put into a separate address which would only be used for giveaways, contests, promotions and that sort of thing. Heck another option would be for us to slowly increase block network payouts with the amount not swapped.

We are not going to pull some nonsense, we have always aimed for legitimacy and transparency. If the community decides that instead of re issuing the coins back into the network they should be destroyed we will destroy them.

The supply for ESP2 matches the mined supply of ESP1. Those who do not swap will have their coins automatically "donated" to the promotion of ESP through social media promotions, partnerships and other ventures to further the project.

Somehow I had in the back of my mind that those coins would be burned? Essentially you are making, what used to be owned by other people, yours again. I'm not quite sure if this is 100% politically correct?  

I am not saying that you don't deserve these coins, but think about this case: Let's say you would have had a pre-mine of 1% in ESP 1 to use it for promotions etc., and 19% would have been mined in total using lots of computing power. So next you would pre-mine 20% for the swap, but only 10% would actually be swapped. And now you want to claim the remaining 10% as yours? This is essentially a huge additional pre-mine, I'm not sure if that is what you truly want. Which amount would we be talking about right now btw.?

You'll have to ask both them and Novaexchange, how much ESP1 was actually swapped, and how much ESP2 was left over. These "leftovers" can be spent on promotions, bounties, signature campaigns, contest on best ideas, best pictures, best logos... It can be used to fund external block explorers. Promotion promotion promotion.

You could ask someone else other than the team to hold these funds too, if they are all meant for promotions, or they can hold it all in one address that everyone can see. Currently, they are holding it all anyways. The idea is to give it all away.

The amount of coins swapped so far is here https://novaexchange.com/coinswap/

There are people like me, who was never part of any free give aways, but is buying this coin from the market.
Keeping all the unswapped coins for further promotion/free distribution is like a slap in the face of investors.
I understand that the devs are not worried about the price of the coin, but people who buy this coin from the market are.
I want to see the value of my coin grow over time, not getting diluted with further inflation.

Lets see how much coins are there unswapped at the end of the swap deadline.

Why would you consider this a slap in the face? It's intended to be quite the oposite. Now community members such as yourself would be able to get more ESP here and there over a considerable series of giveaways and increased block tx fee payouts to both stakers and miners.

There are many intuitive ways the the coins can be reused without dropping the price and causing investors to feel cheated which is and never will be the intention.

We think that if the community were to have the unswapped address available in the ESP2 chain for transparency and every giveaway was announced and approved upon by the community with reasonable payout so as not to shock the markets then we could actually grow the project.

The outcome ultimately lies with the community.

If someone is interested to get Espers listed on:

http://www.cryptofolio.info

Please vote (no registration required):

http://www.cryptofolio.info/welcome/vote

Lets vote espers!!!  

I added the logo let's go team

We'll have a look shortly, thank you very much

[Tekna]

I say give it to more users! Anybody who says to burn something is foolish.. (use all types of promotions to grow the brand) Espers needs the liquidity more people holding makes the token more usable, desired, wanted and traded.. The destruction of something that is to be used in the worldwide market?? Really ..  Why?? so a few greedy people can hoard and keep and prevent espers long term growth? This is what kills projects and why dev teams give up.. If they would of destroyed the bitcoin way back when.. where would it be? They made faucets to give away.. The project states the amount of coins created (lets not sell espers short)  to be used for the project. Don't take advice from people, who have not went to school for a financial related education. People need to learn the long term economics and think outside growth. Don't listen to greedy people's point of view. They are not in to help promote espers long term.

 Do not burn the coins and don't listen to the nonsense of people who think they know what they are talking about.

 

I agree.. team is wise enough to think about good solutions to spend properly an amount that can lead the coin where investors want it to go. This is the contrary of a slap in investor's face!

[.cryptic.]

I say give it to more users! Anybody who says to burn something is foolish.. (use all types of promotions to grow the brand) Espers needs the liquidity more people holding makes the token more usable, desired, wanted and traded.. The destruction of something that is to be used in the worldwide market?? Really ..  Why?? so a few greedy people can hoard and keep and prevent espers long term growth? This is what kills projects and why dev teams give up.. If they would of destroyed the bitcoin way back when.. where would it be? They made faucets to give away.. The project states the amount of coins created (lets not sell espers short)  to be used for the project. Don't take advice from people, who have not went to school for a financial related education. People need to learn the long term economics and think outside growth. Don't listen to greedy people's point of view. They are not in to help promote espers long term.

 Do not burn the coins and don't listen to the nonsense of people who think they know what they are talking about.

 

I agree.. team is wise enough to think about good solutions to spend properly an amount that can lead the coin where investors want it to go. This is the contrary of a slap in investor's face!

If the community is divided in its opinion, I would like to see a voting being done.
All the new comers to this coin want to earn more free coins, so they will argue to keep it for promotions and the people who had been with ESP for a while
may want to see the value of their coin rise. You dont need a phd from a financial related school to understand this.

The voting only makes sense, if the number of unswapped coins is a good percentage of the total supply.
So lets wait for the final figures.

[CryptoCoderz]

I say give it to more users! Anybody who says to burn something is foolish.. (use all types of promotions to grow the brand) Espers needs the liquidity more people holding makes the token more usable, desired, wanted and traded.. The destruction of something that is to be used in the worldwide market?? Really ..  Why?? so a few greedy people can hoard and keep and prevent espers long term growth? This is what kills projects and why dev teams give up.. If they would of destroyed the bitcoin way back when.. where would it be? They made faucets to give away.. The project states the amount of coins created (lets not sell espers short)  to be used for the project. Don't take advice from people, who have not went to school for a financial related education. People need to learn the long term economics and think outside growth. Don't listen to greedy people's point of view. They are not in to help promote espers long term.

 Do not burn the coins and don't listen to the nonsense of people who think they know what they are talking about.

 

I agree.. team is wise enough to think about good solutions to spend properly an amount that can lead the coin where investors want it to go. This is the contrary of a slap in investor's face!

If the community is divided in its opinion, I would like to see a voting being done.
All the new comers to this coin want to earn more free coins, so they will argue to keep it for promotions and the people who had been with ESP for a while
may want to see the value of their coin rise. You dont need a phd from a financial related school to understand this.

The voting only makes sense, if the number of unswapped coins is a good percentage of the total supply.
So lets wait for the final figures.

The other thing to consider is there would have to be a complete chain recalibration if we burn that many coins so as to not  hardcap short. So do we really want to fork?

Just our two cents.

We can of course put this up for vote. This should be beneficial for both newcomers and the ones who have been with us since day one though.

[E1337]

Developers mentioned to burn all not swapped coins when a swap was announced.
Whats the reason of changing mind?

Less supply -> more value -> bigger investors interest to buy it.
Also 2 month of mining by ESP1 and ESP2 network generetes 2x more ESP2 - should also consider it.
my vote - burn

ty

[.cryptic.]

I say give it to more users! Anybody who says to burn something is foolish.. (use all types of promotions to grow the brand) Espers needs the liquidity more people holding makes the token more usable, desired, wanted and traded.. The destruction of something that is to be used in the worldwide market?? Really ..  Why?? so a few greedy people can hoard and keep and prevent espers long term growth? This is what kills projects and why dev teams give up.. If they would of destroyed the bitcoin way back when.. where would it be? They made faucets to give away.. The project states the amount of coins created (lets not sell espers short)  to be used for the project. Don't take advice from people, who have not went to school for a financial related education. People need to learn the long term economics and think outside growth. Don't listen to greedy people's point of view. They are not in to help promote espers long term.

 Do not burn the coins and don't listen to the nonsense of people who think they know what they are talking about.

 

I agree.. team is wise enough to think about good solutions to spend properly an amount that can lead the coin where investors want it to go. This is the contrary of a slap in investor's face!

If the community is divided in its opinion, I would like to see a voting being done.
All the new comers to this coin want to earn more free coins, so they will argue to keep it for promotions and the people who had been with ESP for a while
may want to see the value of their coin rise. You dont need a phd from a financial related school to understand this.

The voting only makes sense, if the number of unswapped coins is a good percentage of the total supply.
So lets wait for the final figures.

The other thing to consider is there would have to be a complete chain recalibration if we burn that many coins so as to not  hardcap short. So do we really want to fork?

Just our two cents.

We can of course put this up for vote. This should be beneficial for both newcomers and the ones who have been with us since day one though.

I was thinking more along the lines of creating a burn address and send the unswapped coins to it, instead of forking the current chain.
This is what I have notice with other coins, when they did similar swap thing.

As I said before, this only makes sense if there are a very large percentage of unswapped coins.

[Gandalf86]

@DigitalCurrencyConsultant, could you please stop writing in bold letters? This is ridiculous, I don't even mind quoting your text.

There is one thing though, your argument is correct. The success of the overall project in technical terms should be #1 priority, not politics. But being politically correct should not be ignored either, if possible.

Developers mentioned to burn all not swapped coins when a swap was announced.
Whats the reason of changing mind?

Oh I remembered that correctly? That's kinda relieving

[pallas]

Since we want to let the old chain die, there is no sense in using unswapped coins. You probably can't even sell them all, and the price will be very low.
I'd burn them, so they can't call scam.

[Dabs]

Send it to EsperEaterAddressBurnTheWitchAtTheStake1234 or whatever. Someone who knows how to compute a valid address make one. Or Send it to 100 people who tweet it and 50 people who put it on their signature.

[.cryptic.]

Send it to EsperEaterAddressBurnTheWitchAtTheStake1234 or whatever. Someone who knows how to compute a valid address make one. Or Send it to 100 people who tweet it and 50 people who put it on their signature.

Here are some instructions on how to create a burn address
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1108597.0

[Dabs]

Send it to EsperEaterAddressBurnTheWitchAtTheStake1234 or whatever. Someone who knows how to compute a valid address make one. Or Send it to 100 people who tweet it and 50 people who put it on their signature.

Here are some instructions on how to create a burn address
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1108597.0

http://earlz.net/view/2014/10/22/0340/provably-spendable-altcoin-burn-addresses

[zsnorbi]

I also believe burning them is the best option. Less supply means mor chance for this to get any value

[Vin]

Yes, burning the coins is the best option too, I think.

This coin needs some valve and could get it with less supply.

[Gandalf86]

"Value" is not a valid argument IMO. The value of the entire chain depends on the practical use for it. If the practical use requires a high amount of coins (which was the reason I voted against lowering the coin amount during swap), if having much fewer coins would essentially render the whole thing unusable for the planned use cases, then well we will need another swap to increase the amount of coins again. Re-using unclaimed coins from other people is politically incorrect though, albeit much simpler than doing another swap.

@CryptoCoderz What negative effects would result from the hard cap being reached "too fast"? I don't think mining plays an essential role in applying a currency...

[zsnorbi]

"Value" is not a valid argument IMO. The value of the entire chain depends on the practical use for it. If the practical use requires a high amount of coins (which was the reason I voted against lowering the coin amount during swap), if having much fewer coins would essentially render the whole thing unusable for the planned use cases, then well we will need another swap to increase the amount of coins again. Re-using unswapped coins from other people is politically incorrect though, albeit much simpler than doing another swap.

IMO value is also given by the trading volume but as long as the coin is traded in litoshis it has from zero to very low attention

[Tastiger]

Reading through this I tend to think stick with the plan rather than burn anything. I am hardly knowledgeable enough to know the effects of burning or not but to me a resource for marketing and promotion of Espers seems rather needed at this stage. The coin must be known about, does that not go hand in hand with usability and liquidity, value even?
As the hard work of the developers is added to Espers these new features must be promoted to attract new users to the project bringing along with them strength and life to Espers.

[alexcfr]

just send me all the unswapped :-)
or burn them...

by the way is it possible to let the coin symbol to ESP instead of ESP2
as investor i'm always suspicious about coin version 2