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Author Topic: Can we Manipulate Bitcoin price?  (Read 72992 times)
Zooplus
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February 19, 2017, 01:01:33 PM
 #801

Being an individual, it is almost impossible to manipulate bitcoin price unless you have few millions to trade in crypto currency market. However, if you have a group of traders with you with good numbers of investment, you may try to put some fake trading requests with good volume and you wish may be fulfilled. But the chance is rare.

Check the market cap of bitcoin. So it is not possible for an individual to fake bitcoin price. A million dollar may come handy there. Just a suggestion!

And that is the most important reason why it is very difficult for the manipulation of bitcoin price even going beyond individuals to more than 200 people. Bitcoin is so dispersed to make all of us agree an impossibility starting from the differences in time zone to the changes in offer price in our individual countries, volume is another thing among other factors that will mitigate against our agreement...

May be if you have tons of bitcoin from the past, you can really manipulate it well and it will be easy to control the market. And only groups of people that can manipulate it unless there is a person that hold bitcoin long enough to wait for this moment and control everything on market
of course, users who have a large capital will give effect to the market. moreover they have a great team, of course they could manipulate the price of bitcoin. but it would be difficult to do if the number users of bitcoin becomes large
The difficulty will increase as more people will hold bitcoin and it is expected to happen in the future. Whales will slowly lose their power to manipulate and there will be fair distribution in the circulation. I like to see that happen in the future and with that, I'm sure more development will come like businesses who wants to see a more stable price.
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February 19, 2017, 01:03:14 PM
 #802

Only  china can manipulate with bitcoin.We cant I really dont understand how small amount of this forum users can manipulate with something big like bitcoin it is not possible because many users here are not interested in that.
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February 19, 2017, 01:16:47 PM
 #803

Only  china can manipulate with bitcoin.We cant I really dont understand how small amount of this forum users can manipulate with something big like bitcoin it is not possible because many users here are not interested in that.

Even China can no longer manipulate bitcoin after they are being discovered to create fake volumes and doing market manipulations. Their scam actions has been stopped thanks to PBOC of China making inspections to all Chinese Exchangers. The only qualified to manipulate the bitcoin market at this point of time are those who have big amounts of money and those who have big amounts of bitcoins. But they will no longer do it and the reason is the high risk and the potential loss of capital.
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February 19, 2017, 01:36:15 PM
 #804

Only  china can manipulate with bitcoin.We cant I really dont understand how small amount of this forum users can manipulate with something big like bitcoin it is not possible because many users here are not interested in that.

The "China can control bitcoins" phase has already ended. Japan has more bitcoins than Chinese people now. And just in case the PBoC wants to make a scene again, they wouldn't have any significant effect anymore. Same as other governments that want to ban bitcoins, there wouldn't be that much effect as it's nothing new to us anymore. Only time banning bitcoins would have significant effect to us is when major countries decided to team up and bans bitcoins.

And you're correct. There's not much users here that are able to manipulate bitcoin price because it would take thousands of bitcoins to do that.

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February 19, 2017, 03:14:03 PM
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I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

I fear its possible now! Bitcoin is already too diversified! Now it is nearly impossible for single seller or buyer to influence price of Bitcoin in any way! It moves greatly owing to forces of market i.e. demand and supply! It has nearly reached the state of "Perfect Competition".

You cant but dont forget that there might be someone who can. It is not really a big deal for someone that owned alot of it, afterall the current price is quite cheap for some rich guy so it is easy to actually see someone that has around 500-1000 btc and let that alone , imagine what a group of those bunch could do to the market

I still got a doubt person holding even 500-1000 btc can mobilize the price much! Think if he stock those btc instead of selling them, which in case of normal commodity can make the price rise but in case of btc will not effect price much. Since there is no limit in its supply right now! Moreover, if he go for mass sale, he for sure consider present rate, thus, contribute nothing but neutralising impact on price!
Bitcoin is not an essential commodity. Its an investment item. Holding or selling by single person will not effect the total market unless he is going to do that at insane amount. Example- selling 500 btc now @ $900 each

I think selling 500 BTC will be nowhere near enough

To correctly assess the effect of selling this number of bitcoins at market price you should take into account the total demand across all major exchanges that would equal this figure. If you just start selling these bitcoins at one exchange that will likely cause the price to go down significantly but ultimately you will be selling below the current market price and arbitrageurs won't miss the opportunity to profit off you. On the other hand, though, selling enough bitcoins make instigate panic selling and then you will be able to buy back at lower prices (and thus profit yourself)

Indeed, to be able to drive the price down one sell order should be greater than all buy support across the exchanges. This is just a matter of who has more weight between the buy order and the sell order.  Those who planned to manipulate the market always timed their plan whenever there is some bad press around.  This is to gather more selling hand in order to outweigh the buy support and eventually drive the market price down.



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February 19, 2017, 03:36:47 PM
Last edit: February 19, 2017, 05:13:43 PM by deisik
 #806

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

I fear its possible now! Bitcoin is already too diversified! Now it is nearly impossible for single seller or buyer to influence price of Bitcoin in any way! It moves greatly owing to forces of market i.e. demand and supply! It has nearly reached the state of "Perfect Competition".

You cant but dont forget that there might be someone who can. It is not really a big deal for someone that owned alot of it, afterall the current price is quite cheap for some rich guy so it is easy to actually see someone that has around 500-1000 btc and let that alone , imagine what a group of those bunch could do to the market

I still got a doubt person holding even 500-1000 btc can mobilize the price much! Think if he stock those btc instead of selling them, which in case of normal commodity can make the price rise but in case of btc will not effect price much. Since there is no limit in its supply right now! Moreover, if he go for mass sale, he for sure consider present rate, thus, contribute nothing but neutralising impact on price!
Bitcoin is not an essential commodity. Its an investment item. Holding or selling by single person will not effect the total market unless he is going to do that at insane amount. Example- selling 500 btc now @ $900 each

I see no point at selling at $900 when you can sell at the current price. The price wouldn't move that much just because you sold your coins at $900 instead of $1050 (the current price)

500BTC wouldn't do that much. You should have more than 1000BTC to have some notable effect on the bitcoin price. Here's what would happen when you sell 500BTC right now:


We're at $1053 and after selling 500BTC from different exchange sites, the price would be $1033. That's just $20 difference which we can recover after a couple of hours/days, tbh

Strictly speaking, it is not "written in stone", so to speak

Even if you place all your orders simultaneously at all exchanges at once (which buy orders you used to calculate the final price), you may not end where you expect, i.e. your order may get filled at lower prices (if you place your sell order at the market price, of course). Some buy orders may belong to market makers and since these are more often than not the exchanges themselves, they may just revoke their orders when they see a big sell order coming in. This is the reverse of front-running and likely as illegal but who cares

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February 19, 2017, 08:48:53 PM
 #807

Only  china can manipulate with bitcoin.We cant I really dont understand how small amount of this forum users can manipulate with something big like bitcoin it is not possible because many users here are not interested in that.

The "China can control bitcoins" phase has already ended. Japan has more bitcoins than Chinese people now. And just in case the PBoC wants to make a scene again, they wouldn't have any significant effect anymore. Same as other governments that want to ban bitcoins, there wouldn't be that much effect as it's nothing new to us anymore. Only time banning bitcoins would have significant effect to us is when major countries decided to team up and bans bitcoins.

And you're correct. There's not much users here that are able to manipulate bitcoin price because it would take thousands of bitcoins to do that.
i think it was easy in past when the number of bitcoin users were not more. but as soon as the number of bitcoin users are increasing it is becoming more and more difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin because bitcoin is a universal decentralize currency and is not under the control of any person or state.
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February 19, 2017, 10:08:14 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2017, 07:23:16 AM by upsidedown75
 #808

i think it was easy in past when the number of bitcoin users were not more. but as soon as the number of bitcoin users are increasing it is becoming more and more difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin because bitcoin is a universal decentralize currency and is not under the control of any person or state.
Yes, with more number of exchanges and high volume, it would be relatively impossible to manipulate the bitcoin prices into one direction. Some people claims it would be still possible with huge capital, but I doubt how they will trade across more number of exchanges also when every exchange is having more traders for resisting.

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February 19, 2017, 10:59:59 PM
 #809

Yes you can manipulate the price of bitcoin if the 50% of the supply is in your hand because the supply is the key to manipulate it. The price of the bitcoin is based on the supply of it. If bitcoin supply is lessen the price will go up and the supply is growing the price will go down because of that the price is selling and buying bitcoin just like trading. If the 50% of the supply is at your wallet you can control it by buying and selling bitcoin.

50% thats too much bitcoins one can have. I've yet to seen anyone with 50% of bitcoins in their wallet.

Or... If someone is able to find holders that together have 50% of Bitcoin amount disponible in the world to work together on something they can have advantages over others. It's possible if there is a common sense of group work, but it wouldn't be a good thing for a decentralized currency that wants to run from any kind of centralization and control

This is a big if bordering on impossible

How are you going to find these big holders? Bitcoin is pretty anonymous to effectively bring any such efforts to naught. Even if purely hypothetically you could find these people (or just one of them), what makes you think that they will listen to you in the first place? Warren Buffett is a public figure, but does it mean you could come up to him and ask him to do something which you think is advantageous?

Bitcoin isn't so anonymous as people says. With a deep investigation it's possible to know personal informations about the Bitcoin users. Maybe the rich guys use stooges at front. If I was hypothetically one of those rich guys I could find anothers and say: hey, let's manipulate Bitcoin price? (Like a secret party, order). Each one of those fellows would control the currency, making more profit than any other person

As I said, Bitcoin is anonymous enough

I didn't say that it is absolutely anonymous. What deep investigation are you going to carry out and what personal information are you going to extract? Unless you are a governmental secret service (and not of some third world country at that), there is basically nothing that you can do. Okay, you can find a few wallets that hold a lot of bitcoins (say, you see around 1M bitcoins in one of them) and what's next? Even if you know that a wallet belongs to someone, what can you do? Why do you think anyone is going to discuss such things with you at all even if you yourself consider yourself a Bitcoin whale?

No, no. Rich people talk among themselves, it's not necesasry any investigation or any other kind of thing to force someone to do something he doesn't want to do. A rich guy can say to another: Hey, Bitcoin is a good investment, I'm having a good profit from it. And the other says: Me too. They start talking and find more one or another whale and join themselves for a goal in common, manipulate the Bitcoin price. As I said, like a secret Order, Party...
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February 19, 2017, 11:29:49 PM
 #810

i think it was easy in past when the number of bitcoin users were not more. but as soon as the number of bitcoin users are increasing it is becoming more and more difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin because bitcoin is a universal decentralize currency and is not under the control of any person or state.
Yes, with more number of exchanges and high volume, it would be relatively impossible to manipulate the bitcoin prices into one direction. Some people claims it would be still possible with huge capital, but I doubt how they will trade across more number of exchanges also having more traders for resisting.
especially when it is greater bitcoin market along with increasing users from around the world. people who have big capital though it would be quite impossible to manipulate bitcoin prices in the market

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February 20, 2017, 03:00:50 AM
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Being an individual, it is almost impossible to manipulate bitcoin price unless you have few millions to trade in crypto currency market. However, if you have a group of traders with you with good numbers of investment, you may try to put some fake trading requests with good volume and you wish may be fulfilled. But the chance is rare.

Check the market cap of bitcoin. So it is not possible for an individual to fake bitcoin price. A million dollar may come handy there. Just a suggestion!

And that is the most important reason why it is very difficult for the manipulation of bitcoin price even going beyond individuals to more than 200 people. Bitcoin is so dispersed to make all of us agree an impossibility starting from the differences in time zone to the changes in offer price in our individual countries, volume is another thing among other factors that will mitigate against our agreement...

May be if you have tons of bitcoin from the past, you can really manipulate it well and it will be easy to control the market. And only groups of people that can manipulate it unless there is a person that hold bitcoin long enough to wait for this moment and control everything on market
of course, users who have a large capital will give effect to the market. moreover they have a great team, of course they could manipulate the price of bitcoin. but it would be difficult to do if the number users of bitcoin becomes large

If bitcoin users become larger and larger does not mean that they hold more than old member hold right? The percentage will be divided. And I never saw that some new members hold up with a lot of coins that try to change some price on market, most of new member just come with huge amount just to gambling and try to earn more coin so I think this will not be real problem for some old holders to manipulate the price
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February 20, 2017, 02:22:44 PM
 #812

Being an individual, it is almost impossible to manipulate bitcoin price unless you have few millions to trade in crypto currency market. However, if you have a group of traders with you with good numbers of investment, you may try to put some fake trading requests with good volume and you wish may be fulfilled. But the chance is rare.

Check the market cap of bitcoin. So it is not possible for an individual to fake bitcoin price. A million dollar may come handy there. Just a suggestion!

And that is the most important reason why it is very difficult for the manipulation of bitcoin price even going beyond individuals to more than 200 people. Bitcoin is so dispersed to make all of us agree an impossibility starting from the differences in time zone to the changes in offer price in our individual countries, volume is another thing among other factors that will mitigate against our agreement...

May be if you have tons of bitcoin from the past, you can really manipulate it well and it will be easy to control the market. And only groups of people that can manipulate it unless there is a person that hold bitcoin long enough to wait for this moment and control everything on market
of course, users who have a large capital will give effect to the market. moreover they have a great team, of course they could manipulate the price of bitcoin. but it would be difficult to do if the number users of bitcoin becomes large
i think it was possible in past but now it is becoming difficult. because the users of bitcoin are now increasing and now it is becoming difficult for a single person to manipulate the price of bitcoin. in fact bitcoin is a decentralize currency and not under the control of any person or state.
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February 20, 2017, 04:29:29 PM
 #813

Being an individual, it is almost impossible to manipulate bitcoin price unless you have few millions to trade in crypto currency market. However, if you have a group of traders with you with good numbers of investment, you may try to put some fake trading requests with good volume and you wish may be fulfilled. But the chance is rare.

Check the market cap of bitcoin. So it is not possible for an individual to fake bitcoin price. A million dollar may come handy there. Just a suggestion!

And that is the most important reason why it is very difficult for the manipulation of bitcoin price even going beyond individuals to more than 200 people. Bitcoin is so dispersed to make all of us agree an impossibility starting from the differences in time zone to the changes in offer price in our individual countries, volume is another thing among other factors that will mitigate against our agreement...

May be if you have tons of bitcoin from the past, you can really manipulate it well and it will be easy to control the market. And only groups of people that can manipulate it unless there is a person that hold bitcoin long enough to wait for this moment and control everything on market
of course, users who have a large capital will give effect to the market. moreover they have a great team, of course they could manipulate the price of bitcoin. but it would be difficult to do if the number users of bitcoin becomes large
i think it was possible in past but now it is becoming difficult. because the users of bitcoin are now increasing and now it is becoming difficult for a single person to manipulate the price of bitcoin. in fact bitcoin is a decentralize currency and not under the control of any person or state.

Yes, more and more large investors include Bitcoin in your investment portfolio. Therefore, it becomes more stable with each passing day.
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February 20, 2017, 05:55:10 PM
 #814

Only  china can manipulate with bitcoin.We cant I really dont understand how small amount of this forum users can manipulate with something big like bitcoin it is not possible because many users here are not interested in that.
but i think that now even china cannot manipulate the price of bitcoin. as the bitcoin users are now increasing throughout the world therefore it becoming more and more difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin.

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February 20, 2017, 08:05:51 PM
 #815

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

If you are asking the community or the individuals, it can't be manipulate. All I know is the big whale investors only can do the manipulation of the price value of bitcoin or the Big exchanges site can that also to manipulate due to they get bitcoin by volume.
of course ordinary users will not be able to perform manipulation on bitcoin, need a big team that has substantial capital and good cooperation, such as making issues that affect the price and so forth
In fact even the big whale cannot manipulate the price of bitcoin. Actually the number of bitcoin users are now increasing, and the users of bitcoin are present in all over the world so it is now becoming more and more difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin. I think even the Chinese who have the more bitcoin users and minor still they cannot manipulate the price of bitcoin.
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February 20, 2017, 11:00:05 PM
 #816

Only  china can manipulate with bitcoin.We cant I really dont understand how small amount of this forum users can manipulate with something big like bitcoin it is not possible because many users here are not interested in that.
but i think that now even china cannot manipulate the price of bitcoin. as the bitcoin users are now increasing throughout the world therefore it becoming more and more difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin.

I don't think that China can manipulate the price. But there are some speculations that because of many bitcoin holders living there and with a lot of miners. But all of us are the who are responsible for the movement of price of bitcoin. And if we are using it for buying and transacting with others that helps the economy of bitcoin to increase / decrease its price.

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February 20, 2017, 11:03:03 PM
 #817

It would be kind of naive saying that there's no way China could manipulate it. I don't see it as being impossible at all
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February 20, 2017, 11:09:43 PM
 #818

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

If you are asking the community or the individuals, it can't be manipulate. All I know is the big whale investors only can do the manipulation of the price value of bitcoin or the Big exchanges site can that also to manipulate due to they get bitcoin by volume.
of course ordinary users will not be able to perform manipulation on bitcoin, need a big team that has substantial capital and good cooperation, such as making issues that affect the price and so forth
In fact even the big whale cannot manipulate the price of bitcoin. Actually the number of bitcoin users are now increasing, and the users of bitcoin are present in all over the world so it is now becoming more and more difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin. I think even the Chinese who have the more bitcoin users and minor still they cannot manipulate the price of bitcoin.

But the majority of people here says that it's China's doing Grin . I don't even understand . What do they think of themselves . Every bitcoin user is a contributor . Many users are showing up and the price is also increasing, Of course China or whatever it is will have a hardtime . We can see the bigger picture here if all bitcoins has been mined cause the coins will by then be fully circulated .

But What if, The big whale investors Joined to manipulate the price?  Cheesy

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February 20, 2017, 11:47:20 PM
 #819

I know there are many big players who manipulate bitcoin price and make huge profits but can we the bitcointalk members also form a cartel and let bitcoin price never fall?is it possible that we manipulate price as I am sure most of bitcoin users visit this forum

If you are asking the community or the individuals, it can't be manipulate. All I know is the big whale investors only can do the manipulation of the price value of bitcoin or the Big exchanges site can that also to manipulate due to they get bitcoin by volume.
of course ordinary users will not be able to perform manipulation on bitcoin, need a big team that has substantial capital and good cooperation, such as making issues that affect the price and so forth
In fact even the big whale cannot manipulate the price of bitcoin. Actually the number of bitcoin users are now increasing, and the users of bitcoin are present in all over the world so it is now becoming more and more difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin. I think even the Chinese who have the more bitcoin users and minor still they cannot manipulate the price of bitcoin.

But the majority of people here says that it's China's doing Grin . I don't even understand . What do they think of themselves . Every bitcoin user is a contributor . Many users are showing up and the price is also increasing, Of course China or whatever it is will have a hardtime . We can see the bigger picture here if all bitcoins has been mined cause the coins will by then be fully circulated .

But What if, The big whale investors Joined to manipulate the price?  Cheesy
I think those big whales are from china this is just what i heard from other forum or i think in facebook group..
There are a group giving a signal for those who are holding bitcoin if they are planning to sell they will give signal like in our group in skype and then soon the price will going to decrease if you are late of sellng you lose opportunity to make profit..

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February 21, 2017, 12:28:47 AM
 #820

Only  china can manipulate with bitcoin.We cant I really dont understand how small amount of this forum users can manipulate with something big like bitcoin it is not possible because many users here are not interested in that.
but i think that now even china cannot manipulate the price of bitcoin. as the bitcoin users are now increasing throughout the world therefore it becoming more and more difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin.
I have a strong feeling that some big exchanges do manipulate bitcoin price just like they do Altcoin price.
They have bulk of bitcoin to manipulate the price and even if they dont have, they can dictate the price as most people usually prefer to buy from them.

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