Bitmain's Released Antminer S9, World's First 16nm Miner Ready to Order

[numnutz2009]

...Those farms in china run hot with just outside air and seem to be ok!

You can just about bet money that they all run with ambient temps under 80F. 

that is incorrect. bitmains firmware tries to run the boards at 95-100 degrees c hence the constant ramping up in fan speed. again if you paid attention you would know this. this just adds to me thinking you dont have any of their hardware running yourself. ur just saying whatever on the interwebz just to be a troll lol.

numnutz2009:

Not sure what you hope to accomplish by feeding the troll, but, on behalf of all who have it on ignore, can you please stop quoting it?

And as for the capitalisation of your sentences, I do understand your laziness around the concept, but I'd just like to remind you:


Dear people who type
in all lowercase,

We are the difference
between helping your
Uncle Jack off a horse
and helping your uncle
jack off a horse.

Sincerely,
Capital Letters.

 

please dont start biffa. tryin to troll me as a way of stopping me conversing with a troll seems a bit backwards to be honest. also its capitalization not "capitalisation". now i know im not the best speller and im far from a grammar/spelling nazi but if your going to be one please make sure ur reply is on point. ty.

...[blablablibbidybla].

I love the fact that you cannot support your claims and then claim that you made no such claims. You entertain me.
Either:
Bitmain was wrong to control fan speeds (and you can factually support such a claim with data)
or
Everything you said was just meaningless trolling based on mere speculation.

You drivel on about how I should prove that "running the miners harder and hotter is the best option" while ignoring the 100, or so, times I've reiterated that the ROI is diminished at a far greater pace than any "improvements" seen by mere cgi file "underclocking" (never once have I questioned the validity of those, like Sidehack, that actually change things [including frequency and voltages] based on measured results). What good is a $1,200-1,800 miner that lasts 10 years and only produces a gross of $1,000 over the entire 10 year period?

Either present data to support your claim* or go back to your little troll-hole.



*surely someone with your level of certainty has charts with BTU output recordings to support your claim that manual fan speeds make the miners run "cooler" and more efficiently....

lol what does roi have to do with what is safe and what isnt safe for a machine?? thats what i dont get man...i asked before but u ignored my question. i know why u did but thats neither here nor there tbh. so i will reply directly yet again....

running a miner hotter and/or harder is bad for the chips boards and every component in that miner with the exception of the case lol. since you keep quoting roi times lets go with that....if you run a miner cooler in higher temp seasons the miner will last longer 99% of the time there is no disputing that (outside the typical component failures due to variations when manufacturing the components etc so lets assume everything is perfect) so it runs for well past the 6 month warranty and beyond. now if you run it hotter and harder you dramatically decrease the lifespan of the miner as a whole which means you wont make money because the miner isnt running anymore since it died and you cant resell a non working miner for a decent price to upgrade to a later model since it is only partially working. so you can get (for the sake of argument) 1 year of life from the miner when temps are cooler vs much less/risking much less lifespan by running it hotter and harder. your logic falls flat my friend. cant mine any coins if your miner dies . you mention roi like thats any of your business to begin with. bitmain didnt remove the clock speeds on the miners to make sure everyone gets the maximum roi for the miner. they could give 2 shits if we break even or not....they got their money already thats all they care about at that point. what is good for you isnt good for others. you can have your own opinions and im sure just about everyone here respects your opinion but i dont see any facts tied to them what so ever meanwhile this thread that you and i have been posting in for months now has story after story of miners running hot and boards dying out. that is my proof just red through previous posts or you can google words involving antminer s9 wont hash etc to see countless other posts and even take you to direct posts in this thread. you hate on me yet you refuse to even read what i say half the time. a troll will be a troll lol

u mention sidehacks name....did you ask him if running a miner hotter and harder is safer for the miner overall?? its a general rule when mining...heat kills boards. knc miners...terrahash miners...hashfast/jallys....bitfurry....black arrow....the list goes on man. the proof is out there confirming what i say. people that have been doing this for a very long time know the horror stories of gpus burning up the paste killing chips and so on and thats from a multi billion dollar company like nvidia and ati so do u think bitmain and all these other developers of hardware have the same sort of vetted track record on design and cooling? if sidehack is able to provide clocking options for bitmain chips on miners he makes explain to me how the MAKER OF THE MINERS THOSE CHIPS CAME FROM CANT PROVIDE THAT AS WELL?? every freq shown on the advanced config page can be tested out can it not? not on every single miner....they can take a handful of miners and run the diff freqs to figure out what to include in that list and what isnt good to include right? or is the perfect design created by the amazingly perfect company suddenly not so perfect?

and let the side steppin back peddlin and dodging of comments made begin...............K...............GO

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[ComputerGenie]

...Those farms in china run hot with just outside air and seem to be ok!

You can just about bet money that they all run with ambient temps under 80F.  

that is incorrect. bitmains firmware tries to run the boards at 95-100 degrees c hence the constant ramping up in fan speed. again if you paid attention ...

I love how you confuse 2 separate things and then accuse me of not paying attention.
Telling me that I'm wrong about the average temp of the room because of what the average temp of the boards/chips are just proves that you don't even read the words; you're just trolling.
Troll on, troll, troll on.....

[numnutz2009]

...Those farms in china run hot with just outside air and seem to be ok!

You can just about bet money that they all run with ambient temps under 80F.  

that is incorrect. bitmains firmware tries to run the boards at 95-100 degrees c hence the constant ramping up in fan speed. again if you paid attention ...

I love how you confuse 2 separate things and then accuse me of not paying attention.
Telling me that I'm wrong about the average temp of the room because of what the average temp of the boards/chips are just proves that you don't even read the words; you're just trolling.
Troll on, troll, troll on.....

oops you are correct this time...you did say ambient temps of the room so that was my mistake. everything else is still 100% valid and you havent responded to ne of it. care to comment? one incorrect tiny mistake on my part doesnt make every other statement invalid. or r u not addressing it because you ran out of room in those circles your running in?? i have learned over the years that no matter what the person talking in circles always gets backed into a corner because as the convo goes on their arguments break down 1 at a time. that is why i continue to reply to ur ignorance. u started with 100 excuses and now u have none....imagine that lol. troll on indeed mr troll.

The S9/T9 are not as heat resistant as the S7s were. In my opinion they are pretty sensitive to the heat as they have to run the chips so hot by default.

Thanks for the info.  That is what I was afraid of.  Still curious what ambient temps people have tried/succeeded with!  Those farms in china run hot with just outside air and seem to be ok!

since mr geenie quoted only part of what you said (as if that makes everything hes spewin valid) i should add that to make claims that their mines run smoothly without issues isnt smart. we have no idea how many boards die due to overheating at their farms. we do not know if bitmain uses ambient temps from outside or if they use outside temps in the winter (cold air is free in the winter lol) and ac cooling in the summer. what we have seen from other chinese mine operators r piles of dead miners and power supplies from running them hard and hot and instead of fixing them they just replace them with new units because its cheaper on their part. you cant compare the costs of replacing a miner on our end with the cost on their end because the amount we pay is significantly higher than the money they pay for them. is we pay $100 they may only pay $20 or possibly even less. since we dont have the info on suppliers and order quantities we will never know the assembled cost before the markup for 1 single s9 but im 100% positive its much less than what we pay otherwise whats the point of selling them to us in the first place?

also no matter what the ambient temps are the fan compensates for that temp but their is a ceiling. the firmware keeps running the boards hot on purpose so the colder the temps the slower the fan spins to keep the boards running much hotter than normal and the same goes for higher ambient temps but in reverse...the fan spins faster.

[Biffa]

numnutz2009:

Not sure what you hope to accomplish by feeding the troll, but, on behalf of all who have it on ignore, can you please stop quoting it?

And as for the capitalisation of your sentences, I do understand your laziness around the concept, but I'd just like to remind you:


Dear people who type
in all lowercase,

We are the difference
between helping your
Uncle Jack off a horse
and helping your uncle
jack off a horse.

Sincerely,
Capital Letters.

 

please dont start biffa. tryin to troll me as a way of stopping me conversing with a troll seems a bit backwards to be honest. also its capitalization not "capitalisation". now i know im not the best speller and im far from a grammar/spelling nazi but if your going to be one please make sure ur reply is on point. ty.

Please call don't make the common assumption of your countrymen and assume the entire internet is populated by and is the domain of the misspelling American.

Now I'm afraid as you persist in quoting, while feeding, the troll I shall have to put you in on ignore as well.

Cheers!

[numnutz2009]

numnutz2009:

Not sure what you hope to accomplish by feeding the troll, but, on behalf of all who have it on ignore, can you please stop quoting it?

And as for the capitalisation of your sentences, I do understand your laziness around the concept, but I'd just like to remind you:


Dear people who type
in all lowercase,

We are the difference
between helping your
Uncle Jack off a horse
and helping your uncle
jack off a horse.

Sincerely,
Capital Letters.

 

please dont start biffa. tryin to troll me as a way of stopping me conversing with a troll seems a bit backwards to be honest. also its capitalization not "capitalisation". now i know im not the best speller and im far from a grammar/spelling nazi but if your going to be one please make sure ur reply is on point. ty.

Please call don't make the common assumption of your countrymen and assume the entire internet is populated by and is the domain of the misspelling American.

Now I'm afraid as you persist in quoting, while feeding, the troll I shall have to put you in on ignore as well.

Cheers!
[/quote]

lol idc if u ignore me kiddo. im not sure why you would announce that then block me....did you want to get the last word or something? i would have let you have it if it made you feel better about yourself. honestly idk u and have no problem with u and didnt even say ne thing to u until u posted insults bashing me for no reason. now you just look like a rude person that is willing to post insults but the moment he gets one fired back at him (a perfectly valid one at that lol) you get butthurt and go into block mode. dont be so sensitive next time princess. if you hadnt replied none of this would have happened. it is nice that u double checked your spellin this time though before posting insults. we wouldnt want 2 fumbles in a row now would we?

[ComputerGenie]

...you havent responded to ne of it. care to comment?...

You haven't said anything to comment on.
You make wide-casting speculations with no data. Terms like "hotter" and "cooler" are relative and without context.

Yes an "underclocked" miner in a room that is 60F will be "more efficient" than a stock clock in a room that's 78F, until you calculate the cost and "efficiency" rating of cooling a room to 60F while running a 5,000BTU heater inside that room.

You go on about Googling random anecdotal posts on the internet where miners are failing because they are too hot, while ignoring that the majority of them are being run in ambient temps that are too high to begin with. Would you put a gaming PC in a 100F room and expect the gfx card to hold out while running at 100% usage 24/7? (That's rhetorical, because we both know the answer is, "No!")

You claim that ROI is none of my concern, if you truly believe that, then my beliefs (which are based in the factual realm) are none of your concern and you can go away now.

[numnutz2009]

...you havent responded to ne of it. care to comment?...

You haven't said anything to comment on.
You make wide-casting speculations with no data. Terms like "hotter" and "cooler" are relative and without context.

Yes an "underclocked" miner in a room that is 60F will be "more efficient" than a stock clock in a room that's 78F, until you calculate the cost and "efficiency" rating of cooling a room to 60F while running a 5,000BTU heater inside that room.

You go on about Googling random anecdotal posts on the internet where miners are failing because they are too hot, while ignoring that the majority of them are being run in ambient temps that are too high to begin with. Would you put a gaming PC in a 100F room and expect the gfx card to hold out while running at 100% usage 24/7? (That's rhetorical, because we both know the answer is, "No!")

You claim that ROI is none of my concern, if you truly believe that, then my beliefs (which are based in the factual realm) are none of your concern and you can go away now.

i have proof that they run the miners hotter. not only was it posted in this thread but i also have pre auto tunes batched and post auto tunes batches and the temps are very very different. the post auto tuned batches clearly slow the fan speed down to make them run at a desired floor temp programmed into the firmware. the pre auto tuned miners run at a constant speed with no such floor in the temp config. i know post auto tuned miners can have more chips as well which generate more heat but if that was the cause of the almost 20 degree difference the fans on the auto tuned miners wouldnt need to have a floor set because they would run at a steady speed so those extra chips arent the cause of the spike. if i run the fans at the same speed on both miners the temps are about the same and hover around 80-90 degrees at the chip. some are lower than 80 but it really has alot to do with heatsink placement and if they are perfectly straight. so i used miners with the same speeds so the numbers would be similar to see if they mirror one another with ever so slight differences which again can be blamed on the placememnt of the heatsinks.

i didnt claim a single thing related to efficiency as far as i know. its been a while but lowering the clock speed on miners as far back as the s3 didnt increase efficiency one bit if im remembering correctly so i wouldnt claim that. maybe thats where your confused? you can make them more efficient but that takes mods using either a pencil or swapping out components so that is beyond what the normal hobby miner is willing or even capable of doing.

now to correct you fully...i (and multiple others) said a low power mode would be beneficial for people running their miners in a warmer environment for example in the summer time and their ac unit cant efficiently cool the house and all the extra heat being pumped into it. without a low power mode what options do they have?? well only 1 to be exact....turn the entire miner off which generates $0 for the entire time it sits collecting dust. every ac unit has a cooling capacity (and heres where your choice use of the acronym btu comes into play) and that capacity cannot be increased ever...sure there are ways for example swapping out the unit with a larger compressor but that isnt feasible for a hobby miner so for the sake of this convo we are considering that impossible. anyway if the ac unit can handle a portion of extra heat then a low power mode will effectively allow him to run the miner during these conditions vs not running it at all and based on your roi argument (not much of an argument since bitmain doesnt care if we roi or not) that would be the end of the god damn world as we know it lol. or are you saying running some isnt better than running none at all??

a gpu fan isnt make to move large amounts of air over the heatsink. they can move alot for their size but there are limitations. gpus arent supposed to run at 100% all the time...they can handle short bursts of 100% power being pushed through it but not constant. even in ice cold temps 100% usage isnt good period. but the main convo isnt about gpus its about s9's. gpus are also not locked by their firmware to run the miners at a steady 100+ degrees c now are they? but s9's are firmware locked to do just that. you admit higher temps arent ok for video cards but you dont agree that the temps these machines run at isnt safe too?? how can it be safe for one and not safe for another?? they arent using components designed for ballz hot temps but even if they were what is the reason for rampin fans up and down from 30% to max sped every couple of seconds?? what benefit would have have vs running them at a steady constant speed which will dramatically lower temps on those miners. running them cooler doesnt lower the hashrate....i tried it and my ato tuned miners run at the same hashrate when the fan is constant and when the fan ramps up all over the same place so what justification is there for adding stress to the components??

i claim that the roi isnt an argument. bitmain didnt remove features from the config page to ensure we saw a return on our invesment. do u believe bitmain has our best interests in mind? why would they care what i make from their miner? i can go buy a brand new s9 right now and put it on a shelf in my basement...do u think bitmain will email me asking why i havent turned it on yet to start mining coins?? nopeeeeeee....they got their money.....so running it at a lower speed and making less isnt a factor in their decission making. they wanted to run the boards hotter but for what reason??

you say there isnt anything to reply to but i have asked maybe 15 questions none of which get answered. others asked questions that werent answered either lol. uk what ur doin. ur in a corner....u can either keep tryin to talk around in circles or u can stop replyin....one or the other....doesnt bother me either way.

[ComputerGenie]

Numbnutz,
I'm not sure which you understand less: economics, profit vs loss, or electronics.

• Bitmain will always care about longevity weighed against consumer ROI. They have to or more units would fail than the market would accept and they would go out of business.
• If you choose to ignore every basic principle of earnings, then it's pointless to even get a miner made by any company.
• When you lower the frequency of a chip, increase the voltage to that chip (yes this actually happens when you lower the frequency), stick it in a room that is 15-20F over even the highest computer (yes, these things are computers) industry recommendations, and ignore the manufacturer's researched cooling curves, it's on you that you have a chip-oven bent on doing the exact opposite of that you think it will/should do.
• Your claims about GPUs suggest you've also done no research on folding or any other modern distributed computing projects.
• Still waiting on this "proof" that you keep claiming to have.

[numnutz2009]

Numbnutz,
I'm not sure which you understand less: economics, profit vs loss, or electronics.

• Bitmain will always care about longevity weighed against consumer ROI. They have to or more units would fail than the market would accept and they would go out of business.
• If you choose to ignore every basic principle of earnings, then it's pointless to even get a miner made by any company.
• When you lower the frequency of a chip, increase the voltage to that chip (yes this actually happens when you lower the frequency), stick it in a room that is 15-20F over even the highest computer (yes, these things are computers) industry recommendations, and ignore the manufacturer's researched cooling curves, it's on you that you have a chip-oven bent on doing the exact opposite of that you think it will/should do.
• Your claims about GPUs suggest you've also done no research on folding or any other modern distributed computing projects.
• Still waiting on this "proof" that you keep claiming to have.

1. proof has been given by multiple people in this thread so read up buddy.

2. they do not care about roi...they got paid upfront multiple times more than the cost of the machine so they only care about getting past the 180 day threshold with the buyer and not about if the miner runs or not. their warranty also says if anything burns up due to component failure (which is common for almost all component failures especially ones with high amounts of power running through them lol) the warranty is voided out so again they dont care how long they last past a set amount of time they have determined in house. they wouldnt publicly post that info either because it can cost them business. its sort of like the well believed "planned obsolesce" in the tech/appliance/consumer products in general industry. if companies made them to last customers wouldnt consider buying replacements as fast and in bitmains case if 1 s9 dies thats 1 less s9 competition against them. they get their money and reduced competition at the mining lvl. that is what is known as a win win my friend. are u familiar with that term??

3. im not sure why your bolding the word "ARE" like im disagreeing with your classification lol but whatevs buddy. ne way lowering the freq of the chip makes the chip use less power. the voltage can go up all it wants the fact is the current draw goes down which when you do the math equals less wattage being used which again proves it uses less power. im not sure what argument your trying to win but it seems like your confirming what i said in over what....20+ posts now?? ty i guess lol.

4. i guess u have to have run a gpu mining farm (only 145 cards but for me that seemed like alot. others dont have to agree) to be able to comment on it so since u havent i will share some info on how i did things. my gpus wouldnt run at higher than 80% capacity. i treated them like i would treat a power supply and never maxed it out past 80% except for when im finding the sweet spot for that config. each card has slight differences so the sweet spot may or may not be the same as every other card your running of the same model/specs. besides you cant know what 80% capacity of that particular card is until u know what the max it can handle is...its common sense.  maybe i was too anal and maybe not but i know my gpus didnt die. they also didnt need to be repasted like other gpus i tried buying that were run at 100%. they were unloading them in a bulk sale but i wanted to check the paste beforehand to see how they were treated and good thing i did....it had become completely useless. meanwhile mine until the day i sold them all (xfx 7950 DD's) had 0 of the same issues the other cards i was looking at buying in bulk had. i also tried buying the cards from other miners locally as well and they had the same problems so it wasnt a 1 time fluke associated with 1 deal so sorry buddy but if u just looked the info up u would know all of this. i mean ur super techy right?? u werent around during the crazy days of nvidia 8800 series video cards in both laptops and desktops and how they would overheat?? i guess thats one notch in the child column lol.

...why they believe Bitmain is erroneous in programmatically controlling fan speeds....

Bro, haven't you been paying attention to everyone complaining about failure rates of the S9's ?

http://slideplayer.com/slide/8857172/26/images/20/Correlation+=+Causation.jpg

But it can be. Just sayin'

I recognize dick-sucking-lips when I see 'em, and yours are fully attached to Jihan Wu.

lol couldnt have said it better myself. maybe he thinks spewing ignorance as a defense long enough will 1 make him believable or 2 make mr wu wanna give him a job/free miners?? either is possible i think but neither will happen lol.

[ComputerGenie]

...I recognize dick-sucking-lips when I see 'em, and yours are fully attached to Jihan Wu.

Yeah, because anyone that promotes consumer responsibility must be in league with a manufacturer.  

[ComputerGenie]

1. proof has been given by multiple people in this thread so read up buddy.

2. they do not care about roi...they got paid upfront multiple times more than the cost of the machine so they only care about getting past the 180 day threshold with the buyer and not about if the miner runs or not. their warranty also says if anything burns up due to component failure (which is common for almost all component failures especially ones with high amounts of power running through them lol) the warranty is voided out so again they dont care how long they last past a set amount of time they have determined in house. they wouldnt publicly post that info either because it can cost them business. its sort of like the well believed "planned obsolesce" in the tech/appliance/consumer products in general industry. if companies made them to last customers wouldnt consider buying replacements as fast and in bitmains case if 1 s9 dies thats 1 less s9 competition against them. they get their money and reduced competition at the mining lvl. that is what is known as a win win my friend. are u familiar with that term??

3. im not sure why your bolding the word "ARE" like im disagreeing with your classification lol but whatevs buddy. ne way lowering the freq of the chip makes the chip use less power. the voltage can go up all it wants the fact is the current draw goes down which when you do the math equals less wattage being used which again proves it uses less power. im not sure what argument your trying to win but it seems like your confirming what i said in over what....20+ posts now?? ty i guess lol.

4. i guess u have to have run a gpu mining farm (only 145 cards but for me that seemed like alot. others dont have to agree) to be able to comment on it so since u havent i will share some info on how i did things. my gpus wouldnt run at higher than 80% capacity. i treated them like i would treat a power supply and never maxed it out past 80% except for when im finding the sweet spot for that config. each card has slight differences so the sweet spot may or may not be the same as every other card your running of the same model/specs. besides you cant know what 80% capacity of that particular card is until u know what the max it can handle is...its common sense.  maybe i was too anal and maybe not but i know my gpus didnt die. they also didnt need to be repasted like other gpus i tried buying that were run at 100%. they were unloading them in a bulk sale but i wanted to check the paste beforehand to see how they were treated and good thing i did....it had become completely useless. meanwhile mine until the day i sold them all (xfx 7950 DD's) had 0 of the same issues the other cards i was looking at buying in bulk had. i also tried buying the cards from other miners locally as well and they had the same problems so it wasnt a 1 time fluke associated with 1 deal so sorry buddy but if u just looked the info up u would know all of this. i mean ur super techy right?? u werent around during the crazy days of nvidia 8800 series video cards in both laptops and desktops and how they would overheat?? i guess thats one notch in the child column lol.

1. Proof = data, not anecdotal claims with no proof of themselves. There's a reason that no court in the world allows hearsay.
2. As I said no consumer ROI = no consumers.
3a. Bold = emphasis. I knew you had trouble reading English, but I didn't know you didn't understand the basic principles of the language.  
3b. I'm way too lazy to explain to you that (aside from a few cases) "underclocking" combined with "overvolting" isn't a thing that's a good idea to do or ever suggested by anyone (even glancing at your incoherent "paragraph" on old GPUs, one would think that you would now this already) .
4. It's cute that I say "modern" and you think that 2007-2012 qualifies, it explains the mentality you approach this all with.  

[taserz]

"Should I buy 10 of these or 10 or the T9. Planning on building my first farm. Want to start it in my house and once I figured it out and it generates enough cash flow to rent a place out for it and scale it up."

Serious question I am thinking about investing some money into these and want to try to a little mining side business and expand it after they pay themselves off.

[ComputerGenie]

"Should I buy 10 of these or 10 or the T9. Planning on building my first farm. Want to start it in my house and once I figured it out and it generates enough cash flow to rent a place out for it and scale it up."

Serious question I am thinking about investing some money into these and want to try to a little mining side business and expand it after they pay themselves off.

Well, if you're wanting to generate cash flow, then you don't want to start 10 "in you house" nor do you want to buy 10 T9s that use 3,388.2W more to produce the same hashrate as 10 S9s.

[ComputerGenie]

[ img ]

[taserz]

"Should I buy 10 of these or 10 or the T9. Planning on building my first farm. Want to start it in my house and once I figured it out and it generates enough cash flow to rent a place out for it and scale it up."

Serious question I am thinking about investing some money into these and want to try to a little mining side business and expand it after they pay themselves off.

Well, if you're wanting to generate cash flow, then you don't want to start 10 "in you house" nor do you want to buy 10 T9s that use 3,388.2W more to produce the same hashrate as 10 S9s.

I figure I will start off with 3 in my house off a 240v and if it runs smoothly quickly get 7 more or so and rent out a place or find a garage to put them in with the right electrical setup and create some shelves and design some cooling methods to pipe out the air. I think it would be smart for me to run a few and get the hang of it before I buy all 10 maybe I just buy 1 then if I understand it but 9 or 10 more? I was really big into mining back in 2011 with my computer and gpu when that was first a thing but stopped after it was no longer feasible. I have come a long way from losing 100s of coins in a dead hard drive years ago (was like 500$ it was the $5 bubble haha) but there is no reason to be salty about losses and what not. I always was a believer and I now with the coin value so high I figure why not spend 10 coins or so and do what I loved when I first got into it.

Would you have any recommendations for the t9's or any reason I should not buy them? Do I buy new or used? There is so much info out there lately and I feel I can't read it all and asking questions is the quicker and faster approach

[MyRig]

unfortunately there is fit for all answer.  T9 and S9 there are pro and cons and home vs garage, there are pro and cons. 

Buy used there is pro and cons.  it is all up to your specific setup.  Best try a few and see how it work for you and go from there.

"Should I buy 10 of these or 10 or the T9. Planning on building my first farm. Want to start it in my house and once I figured it out and it generates enough cash flow to rent a place out for it and scale it up."

Serious question I am thinking about investing some money into these and want to try to a little mining side business and expand it after they pay themselves off.

Well, if you're wanting to generate cash flow, then you don't want to start 10 "in you house" nor do you want to buy 10 T9s that use 3,388.2W more to produce the same hashrate as 10 S9s.

I figure I will start off with 3 in my house off a 240v and if it runs smoothly quickly get 7 more or so and rent out a place or find a garage to put them in with the right electrical setup and create some shelves and design some cooling methods to pipe out the air. I think it would be smart for me to run a few and get the hang of it before I buy all 10 maybe I just buy 1 then if I understand it but 9 or 10 more? I was really big into mining back in 2011 with my computer and gpu when that was first a thing but stopped after it was no longer feasible. I have come a long way from losing 100s of coins in a dead hard drive years ago (was like 500$ it was the $5 bubble haha) but there is no reason to be salty about losses and what not. I always was a believer and I now with the coin value so high I figure why not spend 10 coins or so and do what I loved when I first got into it.

Would you have any recommendations for the t9's or any reason I should not buy them? Do I buy new or used? There is so much info out there lately and I feel I can't read it all and asking questions is the quicker and faster approach

[ComputerGenie]

...

If you do read back, you'll see that I'm all about the economics when making choices. I can't see any situation where T9s make sense (and I'm a guy that bought S7LNs [after S9s were released] and turned them into 5.1TH "S7"s). I'm sure you'll find those that are anti-S9 and will say that the added expense of the T9 is "worth it" for the "reliability"; however, if you do the math, every "bad" S9 found on Google, found on Bitmain's forum, and found on some random blog/forum added together likely equals less than 0.1% of units sold.
Given that you have the background, my suggestion would be to get the place (rent, buy, etc.), get it set up for what you think is your max (i.e.,most watts you can pull, most air you can move, etc.), and then, if you envision running 10, buy 10 S9s and let them do their thing. The only real difference between GPU mining and now is that ASICs have cgminer already on them and it's accessed/"controlled" via a browser (in over-simplified terms, an S9 [or the like] is a self contained PC and the ASIC cards themselves are the equivalent of what was, then, the GPU).

[Hockeybum]

Make sure that your 240 V is really 240 V; at my house I have 120/208, so I am just running 2 13.5 THS S9 Antminers each on a separate 20 amp 120 v circuit, each with a 1600 watt power supply.  I am also running 6 S9 Antminers on a 50 amp 240 V oven circuit from a 40 amp PDU, I believe the miners are pulling around 5.5 A each.  On a 208 circuit the miners will pull 6.3 A.  The three car garage where I have 6 miners in gets really warm during the day, so you have to really think about ventilation.  Finksy sells power kits for bitcoin miners, I would highly recommend his equipment. There is a thread from him here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=966135.0.  I did not see on the Bitmain site where T9 is for sale currently, maybe I missed it.  The S9 is sold out and won't be shipping until July 5th.  I have 13 more S9s coming in Friday, just waiting on the electrician to install (2) 3 phase 60 amp circuits at the shop.  If he doesn't do it soon, I may sell these S9s and order more from the July 5th batch.  

[taserz]

...

If you do read back, you'll see that I'm all about the economics when making choices. I can't see any situation where T9s make sense (and I'm a guy that bought S7LNs [after S9s were released] and turned them into 5.1TH "S7"s). I'm sure you'll find those that are anti-S9 and will say that the added expense of the T9 is "worth it" for the "reliability"; however, if you do the math, every "bad" S9 found on Google, found on Bitmain's forum, and found on some random blog/forum added together likely equals less than 0.1% of units sold.
Given that you have the background, my suggestion would be to get the place (rent, buy, etc.), get it set up for what you think is your max (i.e.,most watts you can pull, most air you can move, etc.), and then, if you envision running 10, buy 10 S9s and let them do their thing. The only real difference between GPU mining and now is that ASICs have cgminer already on them and it's accessed/"controlled" via a browser (in over-simplified terms, an S9 [or the like] is a self contained PC and the ASIC cards themselves are the equivalent of what was, then, the GPU).

Oh wow that is really neat cg miner is on it just a little computer managing all the processors. So S9 it is I was semi sold on t9's reliability since I was reading about warranty stuff back and forth. But a new one from them has a warranty while the ebay ones are warrant less and cheaper. I think the warranty is worth buying new. Am I better off waiting since the S9's were last years asics won't there be a new one coming out soon?

Make sure that your 240 V is really 240 V; at my house I have 120/208, so I am just running 2 13.5 THS S9 Antminers each on a separate 20 amp 120 v circuit, each with a 1600 watt power supply.  I am also running 6 S9 Antminers on a 50 amp 240 V oven circuit from a 40 amp PDU, I believe the miners are pulling around 5.5 A each.  On a 208 circuit the miners will pull 6.3 A.  The three car garage where I have 6 miners in gets really warm during the day, so you have to really think about ventilation.  Finksy sells power kits for bitcoin miners, I would highly recommend his equipment. There is a thread from him here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=966135.0.  I did not see on the Bitmain site where T9 is for sale currently, maybe I missed it.  The S9 is sold out and won't be shipping until July 5th.  I have 13 more S9s coming in Friday, just waiting on the electrician to install (2) 3 phase 60 amp circuits at the shop.  If he doesn't do it soon, I may sell these S9s and order more from the July 5th batch.  

If it was a true 240v can't you run 3 s9's off it? I think my house is only capable of 200 amps does that even sound right. There are about 25 15 amp circuit breakers but of course they are not all maxed out or even close for the most part. I am thinking I should start off in my house or maybe running an s9 off a 120v just one to figure it out and configure it and what not and then once I know how to set these up then get a place or put it in a friends place if my house can't power this (sounds stupid I think it easily could) but I also found some workshops for rent with lots of power! I found Finskys thread earlier and I think that is the route I would go over doing the evga psu route many people go.

You have 13 more S9's coming in? Is this you investing money or the previous miners paying for the new miners? (Not to be a personal question but the profit in mining is very different from what it once was when I was big into this (granted people are putting up a decent amount of money on the hardware like I am thinking about doing).

If I was to spend 10 bitcoins on this project I figure 7 coins on S9's which means I can get 15 s9's but I will probably start with a few then get 10 then evolve into 15. Then use the other 3 bitcoins aka $7,500 for shelving wires pdu's power supplies and wiring for the house/rent of place/paying a friend/first months electricity.

The major draw back I have is I am not that tech savey with Electrical stuff. The 240v at how many amps and what I would plug in where is what is confusing a bit too. I understand what a pdu does. So in theory couldn't I plug a pdu into a 240v at 30-40 amps and run 3 or more s9's? I can't figure out how many amps these puppies draw on full load and I really don't want to be flipping breakers. Sorry if I am asking a lot but the one thing I learned in this community over the years is just ask and people are generals more than willing to help. Hmmm I think if I carry through with this I might do a nice picture tutorial/setup of what I did and why.

This is very much appreciated as a long time bitcoin user but an even longer bitcoin lurker on these forums

[nahmank]

if i order s9 from bitminer now iget it in 15th July? (Shipping: 5th-15th July)