Steemit how can this thing be workable long term?

[FandangledGizmo]

As the founder of Steem said...

Only 0.47% of STEEM is liquid in individual accounts, this is going to make the pump on CMC legend... wait-for-it... dary!

...

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22125.msg288854.html#msg288854

So it's just a case of alt-coiners not knowing how to value companies and chasing a very tiny % of the total supply.

It's also a non business model.

Question: They're paying users for content. But where does the revenue come from to pay them?

Answer: While often in the red for a while, traditional business models attempt to earn revenue to pay for expenses and the remainder is profit. In Steem there is no revenue source only massive expenses in the form of having to pay users for content.

In theory the currency itself could ultimately bootstrap and organic demand could be created that way, enough to offset their huge costs, but given the centralised nature of the initial distribution I think it is unlikely that it will be widely popular and adopted.

(Synereo by contrast does have a business model in that advertisers pay for content like traditional social media sites but this revenue is mostly distributed among the users themselves in return for their attention. So when Synereo attracts users their value should go up, with Steem each new user is just an additional expense.)

I'm impressed it got to such a high value though and the lead dev/founder is one of the most talented around, so who knows.

[iamnotback]

The whitepaper contains perhaps a hint as to the long-term plan:

Solving the Cryptocurrency Liquidation Problem

A currency that is difficult to use or impossible to sell has little value. Someone who comes across $1.00 worth of Bitcoin will discover that it costs more than $1.00 to sell that Bitcoin. They have to create an account with an exchange, perform KYC validation, and pay fees. Small amounts of cryptocurrency are like small change that people are unwilling to bend over to pick up.

Merchants give users a way to quickly convert their cryptocurrency into tangible goods and services. Merchants need a currency pegged to their unit of account, normally dollars. Accepting a volatile currency introduces significant accounting overhead.

Merchants will accept any currency if it increases their sales. Having a large user base with a stable currency such as SMD lowers the barrier to entry for merchants. The presence of merchants improves the system by creating an off-ramp for users to exit the system without going to the trouble of using an exchange.

So it appears "Dan and Ned" (do they do anal?) want to try to amass enough users holding SP tokens (because users are forced to receive 50% of their payouts in SP tokens which require 2 years to cash out), to incentivize merchants to sell to these users.

The flaw in their plan is network effects are inhibited/retarded with a closed, persmissioned block chain and ecosystem. Network effects are enabled by permissionless, trustless systems. Currency can't be built as a corporation.

Dan is a funny kook. He believes he can build a worldwide currency enclosed inside a proof-of-stake corporation with an 80% stealth mine for the insiders.

Dan seems to like jails. To be a full participant in his proof-of-stake playjailground, you are forced to lockup your investment for two years in SP tokens.

I hope jails are nice to Dan. He seems want them all around him.

Edit: I have figured out their business plan. They obviously are hoping that the commerce which must take place in STEEM (not Steem Power) tokens will pay for the costs of rewarding content creation, via the 9X greater debasement of STEEM vs. SP. This is how they hope that investors do not end up paying for the content ongoing. So the income producing model is apparently the commerce they expect to take place on STEEM once they have a large enough userbase who have plenty of Steem Power tokens to cash out every week to STEEM tokens.

The problem I see with this model in addition to the criticism I made above, is that the commerce won't be a large proportion of the Steem Power, because users will prefer to cash out to fiat or Bitcoin because the merchant ecosystem will be too small. Again my point is there is no way Dan can scale the currency to a diverse ecosystem with it being a corporate controlled block chain (DPoS) and where his company controls all the users. Ecosystems need very diverse network effects and unlimited degrees-of-freedom in order to maximize rate of diversification and scaling.

[iamnotback]

I am going to flood the Steemit site with filipino bloggers. More the merrier. As many as possible should get their free $10 of SP. We will start the viral campaign on Facebook once the Steemit site is back up from the hack recovery.

Don't so I didn't do my part to help  

Well the Steemit sign up sucks so much that we abandoned this plan.

First we tested earlier and my gf signed up with her Facebook account. The site signed her up but it wasn't fully functional due to the hack. Later with the site fully functional, she can't login. It says her username doesn't exist at the login interface. Yet if she tries to sign up again, it says her username already signed up. So she is stuck in a blackhole bug and can't continue.

Tonight her sister signed up, but instead of the promised $10, she only received 5 SP (Steem Power) with an estimated value of "$3.85". She clicked to "Power Down" and was told (in some cryptic message that only a programmer such as myself might comprehend) she needs to earn 10X more SP before she can start Power Down process. So she said fuck this and left. The only thing she is presented for content publishing is a box for "Blog" where I guess she needs to type markdown, but she has no clue about markdown.

I doubt the 3000 sign ups per day are not mostly abandoned accounts.

This site is not for your average person, because they will never figure this out. You need to be computer savvy or having a friend who is helping you. The main issue is that it requires too much effort to figure out. Even I wasn't going to spend the effort to figure it out and then train these two ladies. Who has time for that. User interfaces need to be very, very easy.

So if this is an indication of their user interface programming and design skills, they are not going to be successful making a mass adopted system and crypto-currency. Perhaps they will improve later.

One of the major challenges when attempting to create a new social network, is that users are really loath to learn sites that are not as easy-as-pie. And they are more comfortable with the user interfaces of the sites they already use.

Additionally the requirement for 16 character password was also a pita. My gf was going to stop because of that, but I urged her to continue the sign up process.

Both of the ladies said they were afraid it is a scam and they would go to jail. They both seemed very uninterested, because they don't believe any social network will give you $10 for signing up. They thought I was trying to trick them.

Both of these ladies were eager for me to stop peskering them so they could go back to Facebook and Youtube. They want to work at Kidzooona and earn money taking care of kids. They don't seem interested in online work. For them online stuff is for chatting with friends and watching tubes.

If delusion Dan is thinking he can scale up a currency all by himself and without an open ecosystem, and yet he can't even understand that many people just wouldn't be interested in the Steemit shit he is peddling, then I think everyone should definitely invest all their life savings in Steem Power (SP) tokens and lock up their entire net worth for 2 years unable to sell or cash out. Sell your houses and go all in, this is a SureThing™.

The SureThing™ and WeCanDoItTiedTogether™ trademarks are the sole property of the Steermites corporation and may not be used for any purpose.

[chryspano]

Tonight her sister signed up, but instead of the promised $10, she only received 5 SP (Steem Power) with an estimated value of "$3.85".

Lol

You are complaining because instead of $10 she "only" recieved 5 SP x $3.85 = $19.25?

Your posts are full with small BS like this  

[iamnotback]

The Steemit whitepaper contains a blatant lie:

Censorship

Steem is a decentralized network that is operated by miners in jurisdictions around the
world. All user actions are publicly recorded on the blockchain, and can be publicly
verified. This means that there is no single entity that can censor content that is valued by
STEEM holders.

Individual websites such as steemit.com may censor content on their particular site, but
content published on the blockchain is inherently broadcast traffic and mirrors all around
the world may continue to make it available.

PoS isn't trustless and it requires centralized control. Steemit's block chain is DPoS. The white paper is lying.

Who has millions invested a corporate controlled block chain? Raise your hand, so we can throw eggs at you. (Don't use the lame excuse that you can't cash out, this was your decision to invest under those terms)


Oh lookie here below, they lie to claim their corporate controlled block chain is a trustless immutable attribution database:

Shifting Toward Blockchain-based Attribution

The internet represents the easiest medium for distributing information in the world. With that said, it can be a frightening place for content creators who would like to own their content and have it shared with proper attribution. On current social media platforms, attribution is something that can be lost overnight - a posted video or image can be replicated and re-shared without consent or regard for the creator.

Under blockchain-based social media, a creator or author would always be able to point to a public record and timestamp showing proof of their content origination. In a circumstance where a creator would like to address those who have re-shared without permission or attribution, blockchain-based records provide public proof that the content was posted by a particular user at a particular time. In the future, blockchain-based attribution could come to be recognized by governments for its authenticity and could hold weight in court, which would give content creators greater powers to control their work.

While a timestamping service can be built on almost any blockchain, and several efforts exist to build this kind of service on the Bitcoin network, Steem has a useful advantage in this realm because content publishers are “first class citizens” -- the Steem blockchain is built from the ground up around the use case of content publication, which allows content creators to have the blockchain to validate their content at a certain point in time simply by writing their post using the same authoring tools used by other Steem users.

I wrote upthread that they aren't doing anything that they couldn't do without a block chain and for one reason that is because their block chain is corporate controlled, so they might as well just use a centralized database server (and eventually they essentially will because DPoS doesn't scale well otherwise).

[iamnotback]

Tonight her sister signed up, but instead of the promised $10, she only received 5 SP (Steem Power) with an estimated value of "$3.85".

----snip other valid points I can't rebutt----

Lol

You are complaining because instead of $10 she "only" recieved 5 SP x $3.85 = $19.25?

The user interface said the estimate value was $3.85. Thanks for reiterating how horrible the user interface is that it doesn't even make it clear that the "estimate value" displayed is per Steam Power unit and not the total balance.

As if a woman is going to multiply the $3.85 by the number of Steam Power units. As I said, this site is not designed for the average person.

There was no way I was going to go look up the value of Steem tokens nor put any effort into translating the user interface for the ladies. I was testing it as if they would not have my assistance.

Remember the golden rule that user interface misunderstandings are always your problem, not the users'.

Do you have any clue how many man-hours Facebook has into user interface testing with live users. And yet you toddlers think you can create a social network to compete with the big boys before you even learn to crawl.

The $85,000 hack today is likely only the tip of the iceberg of your extensive growing pains ahead.

Y'all please sell your homes and go all in to lock up your life savings on Steem Power tokens for 2 years. Remember this is a SureThing™ and WeCanDoItTiedTogether™ (anal is available at no-extra-charge courtesy of "Dan and Ned" your friendly DPoS block chain tzars).

[iamnotback]

(readers note there are some more important posts from me at the end of the prior page of this thread)

From the Steemit whitepaper, oh that "organic" circle-jerking content is so valuable for the investors of 2 years anal-locked Steem Power.

Is it also GMO free?

Solving Organic Discovery via Search Engine Optimization

Most cryptocurrencies generate little value for those who are not actively using the network.
Steem, by contrast, generates content and encourages users to share it. This content gets
indexed by search engines and ultimately will bring value to a large number of passive
users. This search traffic creates organic advertising for the Steem network and grows the
network effect.

@dantheman has his priorities well grounded in the most important soil management containment boxes (aka DPoS consensus) for crypto-current ticktocknology and netweird effects.

[chryspano]

Tonight her sister signed up, but instead of the promised $10, she only received 5 SP (Steem Power) with an estimated value of "$3.85".

Lol

You are complaining because instead of $10 she "only" recieved 5 SP x $3.85 = $19.25?

The user interface said the estimate value was $3.85. Thanks for documenting how horrible the user interface is that it doesn't even make it clear that the "estimate value" displayed is per Steam Power unit and not the total balance.

As if a woman is going to multiply the $3.85 by the number of Steam Power units. As I said, this site is not designed for the average person.

There was no way I was going to go look up the value of Steem tokens nor put any effort into translating the user interface for the ladies. I was testing it as if they would not have my assistance.

Remember the golden rule that user interface misunderstandings are always your problem, not the users'.

I don't believe that multiplication was hard for you to do, was it? but instead you choose to post nonsense.

When "smart" people like you play it dump...  well... this is really entertaining!

I was about to tell you that its time for you to go and do a litle more "research" before you continue to post more BS like this, but that would be wrong because you are well informed, the problem is that you intentionally play it dump, why?

[Zer0Sum]

Steemit plaform is for me interesting only as a social experiment. The community forming there is pure utopia. You have society of people dependant on mathematical system and feelings of other members, that together reward each participant of community. It is quite crazy actually. Everyone who will play by rules and will be supportive of system has higher chance to be rewarded. Dissent will be left for dead. I really wanna see where this will lead.

STEEMIT is actually an economic experiment...
But unlike the absurd DAO, STEEMIT was not conceived on the back of a napkin...
The 42 page whitepaper is loaded with hard won insights from Dan's previous crypto ventures.

No one "needs" another social network...
But crypto desperately needs new economic approaches...
Because Bitcoin Maximalist Dogma has dead-ended all crypto in a toxic ghetto...
The interesting thing about STEEMIT is that it throws all that Bitcoin Dogma on a huge bonfire...
And does virtually everything differently than the paralyzed Bitcoin experiment.

Let's see:

(1)  Decentralized CPU mining.
(2)  Free accounts, no transaction fees.
(3)  replacing the advertising model with blockchain rewards for content/voting/contributions
(4)  forcing everyone to hold equity for 2 years
(5)  3 second block times and a blockchain that will scale to 1000 tx/second right now
(6)  built-in exchange and built-in currency pegged to USD
(7)  measuring user bandwidth

etc, etc, etc

[iamnotback]

(1)  Decentralized CPU mining.

Liar.

(2)  Free accounts, no transaction fees.

No transaction fees means no Nash equilibrium.

(3)  replacing the advertising model with blockchain rewards for content/voting/contributions

Investors paying for circle-jerk content. No income producing business plan was offered.

(4)  forcing everyone to hold equity for 2 years

SureThing™ and WeCanDoItTiedTogether™.

(5)  3 second block times and a blockchain that will scale to 1000 tx/second right now

DPoS is a corporate controlled block chain. Of course a corporate controlled database server can be fast, but it can't be trustless which was the entire point of crypto-currency in the first place.

[iamnotback]

I was about to tell you that its time for you to go and do a litle more "research" before you continue to post more BS like this, but that would be wrong because you are well informed, the problem is that you intentionally play it dump, why?

What part of user testing by not introducing my own knowledge do you, Dan, Ned and the rest of the boyz not understand about how to build great user interfaces.

[noobtrader]

I congratulate @Smooth for his quick wit and bullseye accuracy in choosing such profitable venture...  

WOW @5M usd  

nevermind the hater, profit is profit  

Smooth seems to have found a way to game the system

Look at his balance https://steemit.com/@smooth/transfers

He already owns $ 5 Millions at today's market price. Insane.

He acquired nearly 1% back during the "sneaky mine" phase. You can understand why he wasn't willing to attack this coin the way he normally attacks pump and dump scams. That $millions bought his "I am not omniscient about the potential future not being a disaster" attitude.

Btw, smooth is cashing out roughly $50,000 per week. (assuming your $5m valuation of his SP is correct)

Is that a meritocracy  

You can see why he would have an incentive to not speak about how it will be a disaster for those who invest in SP now (requires a 2 year lock up cashed out over 104 weeks), while he is cashing out every week. Chaching. Fools please buy Steemit and give your money to smooth.

I did not ever tell anyone to invest in Steem. I think the long term prospects for the value of the token are not great. I've told the developers of Steem that. I've told people on my crypto social circle that. I've posted that. I don't know what more I can do. I did not support the sneaky-mine and said at the time that I would not promote the coin to crypto speculators (although kind of an easy promise to make since I never promote any crypto coins -- my best guess is all going to zero, though at different rates). It was, however, far more transparent and than the Dash instamine or the Bytecoin hidden premine. For the record, when I first stated that opinion (after the initial mining) it was worth approximately nothing, so the the alleged current market value has changed nothing here.

That said, I also do not think it necessarily will with certainty go to zero, and people can do their own analysis and reach their own conclusions. Hell, even Auroracoin and other pure garbage (nothing person to Auroracoin devs) still has some value. Steem has more merit than that.

Hey dude! Why do you waste your time jutifying yourself to nerds on a crypto forum when you could be in your private yacht sipping mojitos with lots of bitches ! Tell us all to fuck off and go spend your millions! That's what i would do anyway.

[iamnotback]

I congratulate @Smooth for his quick wit and bullseye accuracy in choosing such profitable venture...  

WOW @5M usd  

Note he was forced to remain invested and 50% can only be cashed out over a 2 year period.

The following is for those were so moralistic and idealistic in the past but suddenly lost their value system because of money.

PoS isn't trustless and it requires centralized control. Steemit's block chain is DPoS. The white paper is lying.

Who has millions invested a corporate controlled block chain? Raise your hand, so we can throw eggs at you. (Don't use the lame excuse that you can't cash out, this was your decision to invest under those terms)

P.S.:

Hey dude! Why do you waste your time jutifying yourself to nerds on a crypto forum when you could be in your private yacht sipping mojitos with lots of bitches ! Tell us all to fuck off and go spend your millions! That's what i would do anyway.

+1

Lol. I must agree. (as long as he is confident he has cleared any potential legality issues)

[iamnotback]

I edited my post on the prior page, because I am nearly certain I have deduced the business model plan for Steem:

...

Edit: I have figured out their business plan. They obviously are hoping that the commerce which must take place in STEEM (not Steem Power) tokens will pay for the costs of rewarding content creation, via the 9X greater debasement of STEEM vs. SP. This is how they hope that investors do not end up paying for the content ongoing. So the income producing model is apparently the commerce they expect to take place on STEEM once they have a large enough userbase who have plenty of Steem Power tokens to cash out every week to STEEM tokens.

The problem I see with this model in addition to the criticism I made above, is that the commerce won't be a large proportion of the Steem Power, because users will prefer to cash out to fiat or Bitcoin because the merchant ecosystem will be too small. Again my point is there is no way Dan can scale the currency to a diverse ecosystem with it being a corporate controlled block chain (DPoS) and where his company controls all the users. Ecosystems need very diverse network effects and unlimited degrees-of-freedom in order to maximize rate of diversification and scaling.

[chryspano]

I was about to tell you that its time for you to go and do a litle more "research" before you continue to post more BS like this, but that would be wrong because you are well informed, the problem is that you intentionally play it dump, why?

What part of user testing by not introducing my own knowledge do you, Dan, Ned and the rest of the boyz not understand about how to build great user interfaces.

This has nothing to do with "great user intefaces" it has to do only with your suspicius behaviour. Below is only one example..

Tonight her sister signed up, but instead of the promised $10, she only received 5 SP (Steem Power) with an estimated value of "$3.85".

Lol

You are complaining because instead of $10 she "only" recieved 5 SP x $3.85 = $19.25?

The user interface said the estimate value was $3.85. Thanks for documenting how horrible the user interface is that it doesn't even make it clear that the "estimate value" displayed is per Steam Power unit and not the total balance.

As if a woman is going to multiply the $3.85 by the number of Steam Power units. As I said, this site is not designed for the average person.

There was no way I was going to go look up the value of Steem tokens nor put any effort into translating the user interface for the ladies. I was testing it as if they would not have my assistance.

Remember the golden rule that user interface misunderstandings are always your problem, not the users'.

I don't believe that multiplication was hard for you to do, was it? but instead you choose to post nonsense.

When "smart" people like you play it dump...  well... this is really entertaining!

I was about to tell you that its time for you to go and do a litle more "research" before you continue to post more BS like this, but that would be wrong because you are well informed, the problem is that you intentionally play it dump, why?

It would be more efficient for you and everyone else in the forum if you opened a moderated thread and expressed your concerns and criticism there in a valid way, that's what I would expect from a supposed "smart" guy like you to do, but instead, you choose to run around every stupid trollish thread like a panicked headless chicken, messing your posts with every other crap. The art of proper FUDing and Trolling I guess... Master!

[magicalacademy]

I edited my post on the prior page, because I am nearly certain I have deduced the business model plan for Steem:

...

Edit: I have figured out their business plan. They obviously are hoping that the commerce which must take place in STEEM (not Steem Power) tokens will pay for the costs of rewarding content creation, via the 9X greater debasement of STEEM vs. SP. This is how they hope that investors do not end up paying for the content ongoing. So the income producing model is apparently the commerce they expect to take place on STEEM once they have a large enough userbase who have plenty of Steem Power tokens to cash out every week to STEEM tokens.

The problem I see with this model in addition to the criticism I made above, is that the commerce won't be a large proportion of the Steem Power, because users will prefer to cash out to fiat or Bitcoin because the merchant ecosystem will be too small. Again my point is there is no way Dan can scale the currency to a diverse ecosystem with it being a corporate controlled block chain (DPoS) and where his company controls all the users. Ecosystems need very diverse network effects and unlimited degrees-of-freedom in order to maximize rate of diversification and scaling.

Dude, what exactly do you mean when you say corporate controlled blockchain and that he controls all the users. Can you elaborate on that? What power to they have? Would steem still work if dan an ned were hit by a bus tomorrow? This seem to be genuine cause for concerns indeed.

[iamnotback]

Dude, what exactly do you mean when you say corporate controlled blockchain and that he controls all the users. Can you elaborate on that? What power to they have? Would steem still work if dan an ned were hit by a bus tomorrow? This seem to be genuine cause for concerns indeed.

Click the link:

PoS isn't trustless and it requires centralized control. Steemit's block chain is DPoS. The white paper is lying.

A little tidbit for those locking the SP up for 2 years:

this is the wrong time to dissect Steem imo people will just call sour grapes, you should wait after the pump is over

I like to be able to say (as was the case for r0ach and I on Ethereum Paradox thread), we told you first but you didn't listen to us.

I'm doing the research so then later others can use that, because I will likely be too busy coding or launching a new CC by then (just in time to catch the exodus out of Steemit into the next great pump, lol but I will have something worthy to offer). Except of course those who locked their Steem Power for 2 years and will be kicking themselves while the potential Bitcoin killer arrives and they can't cash out of Steemit, Lol! I want a Bruce Wanker video for this!

I was about to tell you that its time for you to go and do a litle more "research" before you continue to post more BS like this, but that would be wrong because you are well informed, the problem is that you intentionally play it dump, why?

What part of user testing by not introducing my own knowledge do you, Dan, Ned and the rest of the boyz not understand about how to build great user interfaces.

This has nothing to do with "great user intefaces" it has to do only with your suspicius behaviour.

You've obviously never worked in a commercial software development company for average user facing applications and websites. I have. I have created million user products for the average folks. You apparently don't know that every major social network runs tests with average users so they can find the rough spots in their user interfaces.

[chryspano]

I was about to tell you that its time for you to go and do a litle more "research" before you continue to post more BS like this, but that would be wrong because you are well informed, the problem is that you intentionally play it dump, why?

What part of user testing by not introducing my own knowledge do you, Dan, Ned and the rest of the boyz not understand about how to build great user interfaces.

This has nothing to do with "great user intefaces" it has to do only with your suspicius behaviour.

You've obviously never worked in a commercial software development company for average user facing applications and websites. I have. I have created million user products for the average folks. You apparently don't know that every major social network runs tests with average users so they can find the rough spots in their user interfaces.

I like how authoritative(and wrong) your assumptions are but for another time you are trying to dodge here.

I didn't get an answer to this...

It would be more efficient for you and everyone else in the forum if you opened a moderated thread and expressed your concerns and criticism there in a valid way, that's what I would expect from a supposed "smart" guy like you to do, but instead, you choose to run around every stupid trollish thread like a panicked headless chicken, messing your posts with every other crap. The art of proper FUDing and Trolling I guess... Master!

[iamnotback]

I was about to tell you that its time for you to go and do a litle more "research" before you continue to post more BS like this, but that would be wrong because you are well informed, the problem is that you intentionally play it dump, why?

What part of user testing by not introducing my own knowledge do you, Dan, Ned and the rest of the boyz not understand about how to build great user interfaces.

This has nothing to do with "great user intefaces" it has to do only with your suspicius behaviour.

You've obviously never worked in a commercial software development company for average user facing applications and websites. I have. I have created million user products for the average folks. You apparently don't know that every major social network runs tests with average users so they can find the rough spots in their user interfaces.

I like how authoritative(and wrong) your assumptions are but for another time you are trying to dodge here.

Admit it when you are wrong:

While automation can provide documentation and a safety net for future changes, the UI must still be judged by human senses. Experienced exploratory testers are a must, and they should consider pairing with actual customers or customer proxies to make sure the user experience is good enough.

How we test

Every day, we run hundreds of tests on Facebook, most of which are rolled out to a random sample of people to test their impact. For example, you may have seen a small test for saving news feed stories last week.

Other products might require network effects to be properly tested, so in those cases we launch to everyone in a specific market, like a whole country.

Getting it wrong

I'd like to give you an example that is rather uncharacteristic for Facebook, a product where we didn't follow our normal testing procedures or even our normal development practices. It was a feature I worked on a little over a year ago called the chat bar.

[dwgscale11]

Steemit is another shitcoin that was hyped so poor souls get scammed with the get rich quick idea just like ethereum did.  Wake the F up people.