[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[drdanishkhan]

Feeling betrayed.. thats what i am feeling after waking up right now. Bought at 0.00080 and now 6 hours later its 0.00050
What kind of joke is this.. For a mining companys stock to behave in such an erratic way.. highly unexpected.. What are ypu planning on doin Mr Slaughter??

[Vbs]

It was a forced sell.

Quote from #bitfunder IRC channel:

<Ukto> there
<Ukto> i told him to post them
<Ukto> at 0.005
<Ukto> if he does any mroe sell downs
<Ukto> i will get very pissed
<ThickAsThieves> nice
<Ukto> AMC___: got that?
<AMC___> Yes

As per Ukto Bitfunder.com God, I have post all AMC IPO shares at .0005

Update from #bitfunder IRC channel:

<Ukto> le2: amc is selling at 0.0005 from here on

[fently]

It was a forced sell.

Quote from #bitfunder IRC channel:

<Ukto> there
<Ukto> i told him to post them
<Ukto> at 0.005
<Ukto> if he does any mroe sell downs
<Ukto> i will get very pissed
<ThickAsThieves> nice
<Ukto> AMC___: got that?
<AMC___> Yes

As per Ukto Bitfunder.com God, I have post all AMC IPO shares at .0005

Update from #bitfunder IRC channel:

<Ukto> le2: amc is selling at 0.0005 from here on

There was a key piece of information very conveniently left out. As I understand it, that key piece of information was the belief that he was bidding in his own IPO. It's highly relevant. It's also something Ken said he would do. And, it seems, it conflicts with the IPO contract which said that they could sell for higher than 0.0005 based on market demand. Note that once you're bidding on your own IPO it's not really the market anymore, is it?  Now before you go insisting that I produce proof that he did this, A) I just referred to the belief that this was going on, B) He said he would do it (see previous posts by Ken), and C) When asked how much of the buying was himself, he answered "not much".

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Excuse the rude words, but are you all utterly retarded? It is clear that the issuer does not care about giving shares value (because they have none). He just wants as much of your Bitcoins as possible.

I have a feeling not much people check the forums, I'm going to make a PSA soon as a news article on BitFunder

Do you trust an asset that has being force delisted previously by BitFunder?

[kslaughter]

Excuse the rude words, but are you all utterly retarded? It is clear that the issuer does not care about giving shares value (because they have none). He just wants as much of your Bitcoins as possible.

I have a feeling not much people check the forums, I'm going to make a PSA soon as a news article on BitFunder

Do you trust an asset that has being force delisted previously by BitFunder?

We are in the process, since Ukto force us to price our asset at .0005 today, of working out the details of how to make it right with our investors.

[Ukyo]

So we still have a major conflict.

One group wants shares to be sold at 0.0005, and are mad if they are not.
Another group who has bought in at the higher prices which Ken here has determined is "okay" around 0.0008.
Currently he has 1.1mil shares up at 0.0005, and has an "IPO" that states he can sell the first 20 million "Early Adopter" shares at no less than 0.0005.

Code:

AMC may issue up to 20,000,000 "Early-Adopters" shares which may be posted for no less than 0.0005 BTC
each and will also issue 20,000,000 growth and expansion fund shares to AMC. The "Early-Adopter" shares
may be posted in batches with the first batch being 5,000,000 shares.

Up to now, Ken has allowed price to push upwards, and then sell back down.
This has made many many people mad, as they buy in at a high price, not knowing that the price was gonna get cut in half the next day or hour.

Issuers have certain responsibilities to investors. One of which is to give them heads up on how they are releasing shares.

Right now, the current method of release is "However many I want, whenever I want, just not under 0.0005" and this has done nothing but cause massive problems for users all around and proper notifications of share releases should be given to investors.


I was just having a conversation with Ken on IRC where he lost connection in the middle and has yet to reconnect.

As of this point I am going completely hands off with AMC.

Official statement regarding AMC:
"As long as AMC does not sell it's shares below 0.0005 then they may do as they please with their shares. It is their company, their ownership, and their shares."

Ken, I ask you to at least post some sort of statement in the asset Summary that states AMC may sell shares as it sees fit in whatever quantities deemed necessary.
While this should be obvious for anyone who reads the agreement, it misses many. Also, a comment along the lines of "During the IPO, not all shares may be posted as an ASK." I think this will help with the people who can not tell if there is an IPO or what is going on. As of this point, no one knows if they are getting IPO shares or not.

[Ukyo]

Excuse the rude words, but are you all utterly retarded? It is clear that the issuer does not care about giving shares value (because they have none). He just wants as much of your Bitcoins as possible.

I have a feeling not much people check the forums, I'm going to make a PSA soon as a news article on BitFunder

Do you trust an asset that has being force delisted previously by BitFunder?

To clarify, AMC originally had some mis-calculated numbers, and users were buying in at that time based on those numbers.
The re-listing was a necessary evil to refund the users who bought in to the wrong information, so it could correct the estimates and relist.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

They are still using miscalculated numbers. Apparently the network difficulty does not increase when you add more hash power.

[bobboooiie]

Why did the shares just dissappear ?

[matuszed]

There was ~1,000,000 shares on the offer at .0005 before it disappeared.  60k on the bid for that price now :/  This is the wackiest market

[fently]

Excuse the rude words, but are you all utterly retarded? It is clear that the issuer does not care about giving shares value (because they have none). He just wants as much of your Bitcoins as possible.

I have a feeling not much people check the forums, I'm going to make a PSA soon as a news article on BitFunder

Do you trust an asset that has being force delisted previously by BitFunder?

Just in case you were referring to me -- I have zero trust in the issuer. Wouldn't let him hold a quarter for me. I just forgot to add my standard disclaimer on that last post, to avoid being redundant.

[ronaldlee0917]

Seems like 0.0005 is the right price if you want to raise money quickly, you've got over 700btc in a single day
as opposed to 100-200btc when you were selling it at a much higher price.

[fently]

Seems like 0.0005 is the right price if you want to raise money quickly, you've got over 700btc in a single day
as opposed to 100-200btc when you were selling it at a much higher price.

you have no idea how much he collected at any given price if you aren't accounting for how many shares he bought himself

[matuszed]

People just have it ingrained in them that the markets going back to .0005 since it keeps getting slammed down there.  This is the problem with shifting the market offer wall up and down and just running people over.  People are speculating in the offer wall moving not the investment.

[Ukyo]

Why did the shares just dissappear ?

Ken was offline when I made the forum post letting him know he can set the price however he wants.
When he came back online I suggested he might want to take them down temporarily while we talked in case of abuse.

As I told Ken, I am not requiring him to set a price, but would like him to make a statement in the Summary regarding the shares as previously mentioned so newer investors can be informed of the status of shares.

It sounded as if he plans to put the remaining 1mil shares back up at the 0.0005 and let those run their course.

Also, I have asked Ken if he would be willing (with an NDA if need be) to share some of his work and allow me to see a bit of what he's working on so I can at least tell people that there are things happening. I think we would all be interested in seeing what comes of this and should solve some concerns.

[matuszed]

Why did the shares just dissappear ?

Ken was offline when I made the forum post letting him know he can set the price however he wants.
When he came back online I suggested he might want to take them down temporarily while we talked in case of abuse.

As I told Ken, I am not requiring him to set a price, but would like him to make a statement in the Summary regarding the shares as previously mentioned so newer investors can be informed of the status of shares.

It sounded as if he plans to put the remaining 1mil shares back up at the 0.0005 and let those run their course.

Ukyo thanks for the update.  Also quick shoutout love the site.  Since there is a large sum of bids crowding at .0005 right now for clarification does your matching engine do FIFO.

[Ukyo]

Why did the shares just dissappear ?

Ken was offline when I made the forum post letting him know he can set the price however he wants.
When he came back online I suggested he might want to take them down temporarily while we talked in case of abuse.

As I told Ken, I am not requiring him to set a price, but would like him to make a statement in the Summary regarding the shares as previously mentioned so newer investors can be informed of the status of shares.

It sounded as if he plans to put the remaining 1mil shares back up at the 0.0005 and let those run their course.

Ukyo thanks for the update.  Also quick shoutout love the site.  Since there is a large sum of bids crowding at .0005 right now for clarification does your matching engine do FIFO.

Yes, FIFO is only fair.

[kslaughter]

Why did the shares just dissappear ?

Ukto, ask me to remove the ask while we had a conversation. 

[lewicki]

Shareholder Update:

AMC   20,542,154   
AMC   15,002,166   
---------------
AMC   615,856   
AMC   214,515   
AMC   200,000   
AMC   185,257   
AMC   175,000   
AMC   152,542   
AMC   147,591   
AMC   120,500   
AMC   108,550   
AMC   100,000   

Shareholder Count: 327
Shares Sold: 4,440,113

550k early adopter shares left. I assume the remaining 20 mil will take a while to chew through as we move upwards. Not sure how that's going to play out.

--------------

Someone's conversation with AMC, IRC chat logs:

Code:

<aknap3> there is no reason to think those are real buys.
[00:50] <AMC___> Your right, there is no reason.
[00:51] <le2> thought you went to bed
[00:51] <AMC___> Get ready to
[00:51] <le2> amc
[00:51] <le2> could we get a picture of something?
[00:52] <le2> anything that tells me you guys are real
[00:52] <le2> a picture of a monitor of a small piece of the software
[00:52] <le2> anything really
[00:52] <le2> even you bbqing in st louis
[00:52] <le2>  would be nice to see a face
[00:53] <AMC___> It won't be long before you will know.
[00:54] <le2> see, that sounds threatening
[00:54] <AMC___> I was just talking about the Avalon's getting here and we start paying dividends
[00:54] <aknap3> pirateat40 paid dividends too
[00:54] <aknap3> it worked amazingly well
[00:55] <le2> amc could increase their investments so much, if they only showed some skin
[00:56] <le2> btw, how are you guys going to be paying for the manufacturing of chips? i assume you cant do that with bitcoins
[00:56] <le2> thats a month long process of converting  btc to $
[00:56] <AMC___> After today I don't think we could increase it much more.
[00:57] <AMC___> I do it in 5 days
[00:57] <le2> tax rate?
[00:57] <AMC___> What about tax rate.
[00:57] <le2> are you not realizing gains?
[00:58] <le2> you have to pay taxes when converting to usd
[00:58] <AMC___> Do you mean are we paying taxes?
[00:58] <le2> yes
[00:58] <AMC___> Yes, we will be paying taxes.
[00:58] <le2> do you have an EIN?
[00:59] <le2> if so, what is it?
[00:59] <AMC___> We are working on that
[01:00] <AMC___> Our agent in delaware is going to be working on that this next week.
[01:00] <le2> you cant register a company without an EIN
[01:00] <AMC___> Don't tell me what I can do, I been in business since I was 18
[01:01] <AMC___> I know what to do.
[01:02] <le2> I know a thing about this. you have to get an ein number from the federal govmnt before you can register a company state side yes?
[01:02] <AMC___> No you don't
[01:03] <AMC___> You create the company first, then you get the ein or fin or tin.
[01:03] <le2> roger
[01:04] <AMC___> We are in the process of doing that.  Send the form to our agent in delaware.
[01:05] <le2> didnt mean to sound aggressive. just a lot of shit flying around right now, and im pretty heavily invested,
[01:05] <AMC___> Anyway, VMC is spinning off AMC into a foreign entity of its own.
[01:05] <AMC___> Ok
[01:05] <le2> any timeline on when/if the vmc shares become available?
[01:06] <AMC___> I would like to have done them this coming week, however with what happen today I don't know.
[01:08] <AMC___> le2: Nice talking with you, going to bed now.
[01:08] <AMC___> ttyl
[01:08] <le2> Last question ;) on the bitcointalk forum, one user mentioned that it costs upwards of 2million$ to get masks and all that jazz for sub 50nm chips, from the share selling, we're at almost 5million, which is about 300k$
[01:09] <le2> do you foresee a delay on the chip making?
[01:09] <AMC___> We have a better way 150-400 thousand
[01:09] <le2> ttyl
[01:10] <AMC___> They are working on feasibility study now, I have to redo some RTL code this weekend to make it work on their tools
[01:10] <le2> gl
[01:11] <AMC___> We will have to wait and see.
[01:11] <AMC___> gl?
[01:11] <le2> good luck

[funkymunky]

There is one pretty big problem with that. What about the people who bought at 0.0008 or some other price > 0.0005 but bought them from existing shareholders rather than from Ken?  The profit there didn't go to Ken, it went to whoever flipped the stock. It gets real murky really quickly.

Again, for those just joining us, I have a very negative opinion of the issuer. Just because I make a factual statement that seems to go in favor of the issuer does not change that. So please don't attack me for defending him.

Other option would be to issue a special dividend, weighted by the bought share price, so that everyone that bought at a higher price gets more %.

Yes, I think this might work.  We have checked our transactions to see how we can identify the purchasers and have some ideas on how to do that.

I sincerely hope that there is something you can do.

I've refrained from posting to this thread up until now.

I'm "heavily" invested in your stock, not as a speculator but as somebody who was trying to support a mining solution.

This really was not the type of news I wanted to wake up to this morning.

Thank you