[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[hf]

I wouldn't worry that much about share price. The current 0.0005 is a cheap buy, and as soon as the IPO shares are gone it'll go back up. I initially bought some at 0.0005, then when it went up I bought more at 0.0006, but I don't really feel ripped of.

Only strange thing I see atm is that I bought some more 8h ago and there were only ~150k left at 0.0005, now there are ~500k at 0.0005.

But I feel confident. kslaughter is clearly not a communication beast, but he doesn't look incompetent in the matter of mining, and his future mining is why we buy these shares.

[Lorren]

I've had a company for more than 4 years now, and I don't have an EIN.  Then again, I am a sole proprietorship as well.  Does AMC have any employees?  If they don't, then they could probably get away with not having an EIN for the time being.

I would agree that kslaughter isn't exactly the best at communication... I would add, also not the best at running an IPO.  If he can run a mining company, then he'll be able to redeem himself.  Certainly running an IPO takes a different skill set than putting together electronics to mine Bitcoin.

[stereotype]

I wouldn't worry that much about share price. The current 0.0005 is a cheap buy, and as soon as the IPO shares are gone it'll go back up. I initially bought some at 0.0005, then when it went up I bought more at 0.0006, but I don't really feel ripped of.

Only strange thing I see atm is that I bought some more 8h ago and there were only ~150k left at 0.0005, now there are ~500k at 0.0005.

But I feel confident. kslaughter is clearly not a communication beast, but he doesn't look incompetent in the matter of mining, and his future mining is why we buy these shares.

Here here.

I welcome the good-will intention to compensate the shareholders who feel aggrieved, but it seems a given they will have an opportunity to sell out without a loss. That could be just hopeful thinking, as i was filled @.00071 when Ken sold down to current level.

I think the issue after we clear the current allocation, is the method of further allocation/s. I think this should be made absolutely clear what the method will be, in an easily digestible way. Maybe Ukyo could validate/confirm points raised. Im saying this, as expectations have obviously not been met, in the minds of many. And many of them would be classed as newbies to this. To shift all those shares, do we not need many new participants? So lets make it as transparent as possible.
 

I dont envy Ken, starting and running this IPO, and Lorren has a point about different skill-sets. But Ken has painted a pretty solid plan and vision, which appears to be built on solid experience and knowledge. Thats where the value is, and thats what i am buying into.

[Vbs]

(...)
Shareholder Count: 327
Shares Sold: 4,440,113

550k early adopter shares left. I assume the remaining 20 mil will take a while to chew through as we move upwards. Not sure how that's going to play out.
(...)

At this point I would propose that all remaining "Early-Adopters" shares from the 20M should all be posted at 0.0005. This would guarantee that almost all sold shares are coming from the IPO stock, since there'll be almost no undercutting, with the incoming funds quickly being invested into new hardware. As I pointed before, this is a silicon time race.

[abuelau]

At this point I would propose that all remaining "Early-Adopters" shares from the 20M should all be posted at 0.0005. This would guarantee that almost all sold shares are coming from the IPO stock, since there'll be almost no undercutting, with the incoming funds quickly being invested into new hardware. As I pointed before, this is a silicon time race.

There is no reason to do this, shares were selling pretty well at 0.0008. Just let the market consume the shares left from this batch, give it a couple of weeks to see what the market is willing to pay, make an announcement "We will sell another 10M shares at price XX" and that's it. Simple and easy, as long as Ken is transparent and announces things upfront.

[Vbs]

There is no reason to do this, shares were selling pretty well at 0.0008. Just let the market consume the shares left from this batch, give it a couple of weeks to see what the market is willing to pay, make an announcement "We will sell another 10M shares at price XX" and that's it. Simple and easy, as long as Ken is transparent and announces things upfront.

From my estimates, getting the hardware faster from BTC10,000 from the 20M@0.0005 outweighs the mess that will be selling shares at higher price points with all flippers just waiting to cash in. Maybe shares can sell pretty well at 0.0008, but there's no guarantee that those funds are going to AMC. Right now, at 0.0005, there is.

For each share someone buys at 0.0008 from a flipper, AMC received 0.0005 when the flipper bought it in the first place, and the flipper now receives 0.0003. Since AMC receives all the same, might as well sell at 0.0005 instead of competing in a speculative market, where it only gets a much smaller % of all sales and takes a huuuuuuge time to collect the much needed funds for buying hardware. The clock is ticking!

[auto2nr1]

There is no reason to do this, shares were selling pretty well at 0.0008. Just let the market consume the shares left from this batch, give it a couple of weeks to see what the market is willing to pay, make an announcement "We will sell another 10M shares at price XX" and that's it. Simple and easy, as long as Ken is transparent and announces things upfront.

From my estimates, getting the hardware faster from BTC10,000 from the 20M@0.0005 outweighs the mess that will be selling shares at higher price points with all flippers just waiting to cash in. Maybe shares can sell pretty well at 0.0008, but there's no guarantee that those funds are going to AMC. Right now, at 0.0005, there is.

For each share someone buys at 0.0008 from a flipper, AMC received 0.0005 when the flipper bought it in the first place, and the flipper now receives 0.0003. Since AMC receives all the same, might as well sell at 0.0005 instead of competing in a speculative market, where it only gets a much smaller % of all sales and takes a huuuuuuge time to collect the much needed funds for buying hardware. The clock is ticking!

I agree. It will keep short term investors or flippers out for the time being. At the least keep it at 0.0005 maybe for another round of the next batch of 5,000,000?

[stereotype]

If you fix the price after these have been sold, what about the option buyers with strike prices to consider?

[abuelau]

Yeah, we already went down the rabbit hole now. It would be better to simply let the market work and if Ken wants to sell more stock, just position it below the market ask. That's how it works for everyone.

Perhaps he could already define a date for the new batch and say something like "will sell for 10% less than the previous 5 days average". This would give more confidence to everyone.

Plus, if he commits to selling at 0.0005 and it takes too long to sell, many people that already invested may get anxious or need their BTC and may end up selling below 0.0005... and this could start a process of devaluating the stock so Ken makes less money per stock sold.

[stereotype]

Yeah, we already went down the rabbit hole now. It would be better to simply let the market work and if Ken wants to sell more stock, just position it below the market ask. That's how it works for everyone.

Perhaps he could already define a date for the new batch and say something like "will sell for 10% less than the previous 5 days average". This would give more confidence to everyone.

Plus, if he commits to selling at 0.0005 and it takes too long to sell, many people that already invested may get anxious or need their BTC and may end up selling below 0.0005... and this could start a process of devaluating the stock so Ken makes less money per stock sold.

Yep. I completely get Vbs reasoning, but for the sake of a free flowing market, i just cant agree to fixing a price after this round of fund raising is over.

I get the sense that people are dumping AM shares presently. They are going to need a home for that BTC!

 

[Vbs]

The big issue is that at 0.0005 the IPO shares are almost all that will be bought, since anyone that sells below that will do at a loss. The moment the price goes up, there will be lots of share flipping on the market, selling just below IPO price. This means the income funds for buying more hardware will halt while the flippers sell their shares. This is a very big issue!

[lewicki]

The price should be kept at .0005 until the first dividend is released. I think that will create some stabilization.

[ronaldlee0917]

There ought to be a bottleneck to the manufacturing line(the hardware is made by VMC run by a few people only), having 1mil of chips in inventory is the same as having 10k if your manufacturing line cannot cope up with the large number. I would advise against fixing the price just to raise capital which might not all be necessary, doing this would only hamper the power to raise necessary fund for the company in the future.

[Vbs]

I'd say keep the 0.0005 price untill all 20M are sold and the funds are secured to invest in new hardware as soon as possible. After that, the market is free to do as it wishes, but the new hardware is secured.

[drdanishkhan]

All i know is i bought at 0.008 and its not going to reach that value any time soon.. 

[Vbs]

There ought to be a bottleneck to the manufacturing line(the hardware is made by VMC run by a few people only), having 1mil of chips in inventory is the same as having 10k if your manufacturing line cannot cope up with the large number. I would advise against fixing the price just to raise capital which might not all be necessary, doing this would only hamper the power to raise necessary fund for the company in the future.

The board assembly can be outsourced, there are already lots of places offering board assembly for Avalon chips.

[abuelau]

You are assuming there will be demand for shares at .0005. We need the flippers in a healthy market, they are part of the market and help create buzz. I believe we should let the market dictate the prices, and have pre-announced dates for more shares to be issued (at market level).

[Vbs]

You are assuming there will be demand for shares at .0005. We need the flippers in a healthy market, they are part of the market and help create buzz. I believe we should let the market dictate the prices, and have pre-announced dates for more shares to be issued (at market level).

There will always be the problem that when you need the coin and post at market level, they'll just be undercut. The only price with no undercuts is 0.0005. And everyone that bought from flippers at a higher price will be alienated if the price goes down again to 0.0005.

[auto2nr1]

I'd say keep the 0.0005 price untill all 20M are sold and the funds are secured to invest in new hardware as soon as possible. After that, the market is free to do as it wishes, but the new hardware is secured.

I like this idea. This will give some of us more time to purchase more shares at the IPO price.

[stereotype]

You are assuming there will be demand for shares at .0005. We need the flippers in a healthy market, they are part of the market and help create buzz. I believe we should let the market dictate the prices, and have pre-announced dates for more shares to be issued (at market level).

There will always be the problem that when you need the coin and post at market level, they'll just be undercut. The only price with no undercuts is 0.0005. And everyone that bought from flippers at a higher price will be alienated if the price goes down again to 0.0005.

Vbs. To your understanding, do we actually need the coin, now the final first round shares are as good as gone?
Whats your understanding of share issue time frame?