[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[bbxx]

i bought 1220 shares at 0.00089999

i feel i am idiot
scammed like kid lol

[canuckgal]

i bought 1220 shares at 0.00089999

i feel i am idiot
scammed like kid lol

So you overpaid by 0.479988?  I think its just a risk that comes along with investing. You never know whats going to happen with the prices.

As long as you're planning to stick around for the long run, you should see a positive ROI

[abuelau]

So you overpaid by 0.479988?  I think its just a risk that comes along with investing. You never know whats going to happen with the prices.

As long as you're planning to stick around for the long run, you should see a positive ROI

I think so too. You only lose money if you sell.

[canuckgal]

I think so too. You only lose money if you sell.

I like your signature, Scared money makes no money   

[TadpolesIsAWinner]

So you overpaid by 0.479988?  I think its just a risk that comes along with investing. You never know whats going to happen with the prices.

As long as you're planning to stick around for the long run, you should see a positive ROI

I think so too. You only lose money if you sell.

You may be right.  But he'd make almost twice as much if he'd bought at .0005, which is the bullshit part of all this.  Anyway, KSlaughter is aware that it's bullshit and is trying to fix it.

[lewicki]

Shareholder Update:

AMC   20,155,383
AMC   15,002,166
---------------
AMC   615,856
AMC   214,515
AMC   200,000
AMC   200,000
AMC   185,257
AMC   152,542
AMC   149,919
AMC   147,591
AMC   120,500
AMC   108,550

Shareholder Count: 339
# of Shares: 4,820,665

[TheGovernedSelf]

20,000,000 shares @ 0.0005 BTC = 10,000 BTC = $1.3 million

Don't expect to sell all 20m shares. The 0.0005 price is artificially high.

[lewicki]

How can a price during an IPO when you're trying to raise money be artificially high?

[Vbs]

Vbs. To your understanding, do we actually need the coin, now the final first round shares are as good as gone?
Whats your understanding of share issue time frame?

Tricky question there!

I've run several possible scenarios, from only 5M bought to 20M. In all of them AMC does pretty well, but in the 20M sold scenario ofc pretty damn well!

It is really best to sell as many shares as possible, even if that means at 0.0005. Market interest can either be reflected by (1) higher price or (2) higher volume. In our case, we benefit much more from the higher volume (IPO shares sell quicker) than higher price (IPO shares sell slower as they cost more + IPO shares have to compete with other shares in price undercutting to keep volume up).

The capacity to buy more mining hardware now rather than later heavily pays off, especially since we get to profit much more from it mining at lower difficulties.

I'd put the 20M selling, with people picking them as long as they wish, even if it takes 1, 2 or 3 months to do it. The faster they go, the more everyone benefits. Also, remember that if they don't sell quickly, the growth fund is increased proportionally to the unsold shares. It doesn't compensate as much as selling, but it's still something to consider.

[Vbs]

20,000,000 shares @ 0.0005 BTC = 10,000 BTC = $1.3 million

Don't expect to sell all 20m shares. The 0.0005 price is artificially high.

"Artificially high" is expressed by market volume. Judging by AMC market volume, can't really agree.

[soundhead]

It seems that Butterfly Labs will start offering bulk chip sales starting this month. Perhaps these might be an option for AMC?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/3014-butterfly-labs-announces-bulk-chip-sales.html

[lewicki]

IRC Chat Logs:

[21:12] <fiat500> >the feeling when another 15 million appear at 0.0005...
[21:13] <AMC___> Not 15M
[21:13] <fiat500> AMC___: its a joke
[21:13] <Wansyth> How many more share will be introduced to the market?
[21:13] <Wansyth> I can give you example amounts for each tier.
[21:15] <AMC___> Ok
[21:16] <AMC___> Just have to see how it goes.
[21:16] <fiat500> no more shares?
[21:16] <AMC___> I have a lot of work to do on VMC.
[21:16] <AMC___> Not at the moment.
[21:16] <fiat500> yeah you do, good luck
[21:17] <AMC___> I am trying to get the shopping cart to take bitcoins, so VMC can sell 20 machines for 8/31/2013 delivery.
[21:17] <AMC___> Anyone here want first shot at those?
[21:18] <fiat500> stats?
[21:18] <AMC___> Avalon Clones 80 GH/s  Fast-Hash-80's
[21:19] <Wansyth> Honestly, I think posting machines for sale would be a bad move at this point in time.
[21:19] <Wansyth> The community really wouldn't care for that.
[21:20] <Wansyth> You might get a few orders, but you'd have better impact by waiting
[21:21] <AMC___> Can't wait, have to raise capital to pay for the NRE to semiconductor company.  Not AMC's capital, but VMC's
[21:22] <Wansyth> You haven't raised enough capital to foot the bill with AMC?
[21:23] <BitHub> are you marrying the avalon chips to bkk boards?
[21:23] <AMC___> No, that is going into buy chips to increase the hash rate for the cooperative.  VMC is going to foot the bill for the NRE for the chips.
[21:24] <AMC___> Some of the chips ordered on May 1 are going to bkk boards.  68 of them.
[21:24] <AMC___> The two 10,000 Avalon chip orders are going to boards we are spinning up starting this next week.
[21:25] <AMC___> Oh, I did tell anyone yet, that we ordered another 10,000 chips today.
[21:25] <AMC___> I did not*
[21:26] <fiat500> you told us earlier whats expected delivery for those, 9-12 weeks?
[21:26] <AMC___> Max of $400,000 by the end of June.
[21:27] <fiat500> what happens if you dont get enough preorders for fast-hash machines
[21:27] <fiat500> i presume that means nothing gets made
[21:28] <AMC___> Yes, that is no going to happen, If I put up 20 machines for 8/31/2013 delivery, they will be gone in 6 hours at the most.
[21:28] <AMC___> I already have people wanting them from the show.
[21:29] <fiat500> lol
[21:29] <fiat500> naked orders
[21:30] <fiat500> you dont actually have any machines yet though, you dont think that is a problem?
[21:30] <fiat500> ah well, im just gonna cross my fingers and hope for the best
[21:30] <Wansyth> That's what I'm trying to explain. You should wait until you atleast have the Avalon ASICS before posting machines for sale.
[21:30] <fiat500> Wansyth: thats not what i meant
[21:31] <fiat500> i meant the idea of selling something that hasnt ever been built yet
[21:31] <AMC___> Who has machines that you can buy today and they will ship today.
[21:31] <Wansyth> Everyone will start feeling more comfortable after the first dividends.
[21:31] <fiat500> AMC___: i get your point, but these have not ever been built
[21:31] <AMC___> Well, it is a clone of the Avalon machine.
[21:31] <fiat500> ok, but how do people know you can do it
[21:32] <AMC___> Yes, they are Avalon's machines.  We are using their reference boards and their chips.
[21:32] <fiat500> vultures on btctalk will not let this slide, whatever thread you set up for this they will destroy it
[21:32] <Wansyth> ^ I don't think people will be as receptive to the machines being place for sale as you think.
[21:32] <AMC___> Does not matter to me what the BitcoinTalk vultures say.
[21:32] <Wansyth> It actually does.
[21:33] <Wansyth> You have to look at this from a view of public relations.
[21:33] <AMC___> Well, I have to go, I need to use this screen to debug the shopping cart.  Just have two screen now need three.
[21:34] <AMC___> Well, that is cause you are a PR guy.
[21:34] <AMC___> I am looking at it from the point, I need the cash to get my own chip going.
[21:34] <Wansyth> PR is probably your saving grace at this point.,
[21:35] <Red_> Hi Guy, Just join in. I just bought AMC
[21:35] <AMC___> I start shipping machine, that will be my saving grace.
[21:35] <AMC___> Thanks, you buy the last shares?
[21:35] <Wansyth> I got the last 5
[21:36] <AMC___> I was going to send some to an investor that can't get his money into weexchange, but none are left.
[21:36] <Red_> I am from China. I bought AMC last night
[21:37] <Red_> So AMC you are K. Slaughter?
[21:37] <AMC___> Hey, I have to go and get this shopping cart running tonight, I have to look at places to do manufacturing tomorrow.
[21:37] <BitHub> https://bitfunder.com/asset/Kenilworth
[21:37] <AMC___> Yes
[21:37] <ozbot> BitFunder.Com - Join the crowd, every BIT helps!
[21:37] <fiat500> AMC___: how much are you going to sell the 80's for?
[21:38] <AMC___> 86 BTC
[21:38] <AMC___> How many do you want?
[21:38] <AMC___> You can be on the top of the queue right now.
[21:39] <fiat500> AMC___: tbh, thats a bit pricey for 80GH/s
[21:39] <AMC___> Expandable to 1.28 TH/s
[21:39] <Red_> you are selling the avalon batch 2?
[21:39] <fiat500> i have 150GH/s coming from BFL that cost < 86btc total
[21:40] <AMC___> Maybe, but August delivery guaranteed.  Lot nicer that the Avalon's
[21:40] <BitHub> guys?
[21:40] <AMC___> Yes, I know BFL is cheaper, but the Avalon chips are high.
[21:40] <Red_> BFL starts to sell chips, which will buy them 100 days hopefully
[21:40] <le2> have the avalon ships even started shipping yet?
[21:40] <le2> chips*
[21:41] <AMC___> Yes, but with there reputation, do you know when you will get them.

[dhenson]

VBS, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but 100,000,000 shares is just way too many.  It's also insane that AMC is paying dividends to the original 40,000,000 shares when they aren't even sold.  I've never heard of paying unsold share dividends to the owner.

I've purchased 24+ btc worth of AMC so of course I'm invested in it's success.  However, pegging future shares at .0005 just screws early short term investors.  Ken isn't going to sell 15 mil more shares at .0005 unless those who you call 'flippers' feel they can make some money in the short term.  You have to remember that your long position isn't any more valid than my short one.

The validity of this project is in question.  People need to feel that this isn't a scam before they invest.  OR they need to feel that they can make a short term profit and limit their risk exposure. Your suggestion completely removes the later reason for investing and only leaves those high risk investors that see this as a valid long term investment.  Either Ken needs to start making people feel warm and fuzzy (which he hasn't even come close to managing to do) or he needs to allow the market to set the price so people can speculate in the short term.

Just my 2c.

[abuelau]

VBS, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but 100,000,000 shares is just way too many.  It's also insane that AMC is paying dividends to the original 40,000,000 shares when they aren't even sold.  I've never heard of paying unsold share dividends to the owner.

My thoughts exactly. This is why, I think would be much better for Kslaughter to setup a schedule of stock sales and say the price will be based on a percentage below the last 5 days average.

[TheGovernedSelf]

How can a price during an IPO when you're trying to raise money be artificially high?

If/when people start selling, they sell for less than 0.0005.

Unless AMC is going to buy them back?

[abuelau]

No, there is lots of demand for shares >0.0005 as long as the market is not inundated by millions of additional shares at .0005.

The problem is that AMC issued way too many shares for the IPO. An IPO should last hours, maybe days but certainly not weeks or months. This is why all this mess is happening. There should have been only 4M IPO shares and any additional shares should but "2nd IPO", "3rd IPO" and so forth with pre-determined dates and at market prices.

[TheGovernedSelf]

No, there is lots of demand for shares >0.0005 as long as the market is not inundated by millions of additional shares at .0005.

The problem is that AMC issued way too many shares for the IPO. An IPO should last hours, maybe days but certainly not weeks or months. This is why all this mess is happening. There should have been only 4M IPO shares and any additional shares should but "2nd IPO", "3rd IPO" and so forth with pre-determined dates and at market prices.

Couldn't he destroy the remaining shares? Set the IPO to 5 or 10 million?

Otherwise this stock could have a price ceiling at 0.0005... until he delivers the goods.

EDIT: I guess the IPO ended at 19:00 PST, on June 1st.

https://bitfunder.com/asset/AMC

[stenkross]

This company is getting more and more speculative regarding "what will be KSlaughter's next move?"
- Will he dump more shares @ .0005?
   If so, try selling higher now, and buy back @ .0005 when he does dump 'em.
- How many will he dump? All remaining ~15 million? If so, that will have a negative effect on share price.
- Will he dump more shares @ > .0005? If so, buy more now while they are cheap!

I've never experienced such insecure IPO before, where the founder sets the rules on a day-by-day basis.
Buy hey, it has it's charm also.

So far I've been lucky enough and bought/sold @ right occasions.

[TheGovernedSelf]

So far I've been lucky enough and bought/sold @ right occasions.

And so far this company has about as much value as a bunch of forum posts:

'bout tree fiddy.

[luke.watson]

BFL : Shipping chips?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/3014-butterfly-labs-announces-bulk-chip-sales.html