[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[stenkross]

For example, lets say Ken needs to sell 1,000,000 shares now for the (imminent) purchase of materials to build Avalon boards/ new order of chips/ whatever:

• He puts them to sell on BitFunder at 0.0008.
• Next minute, he is immediately undercut at 10,000@0.00079999 by someone, and the other minute at 5,000@0.00079998 by another guy, etc.
• This keeps going and after a week he has sold nothing, while the undercutters were steadily selling their shares.

To me it is obvious that he should sell the shares on an open market, ALWAYS.

If Ken start selling on a "closed market", the share price will get an artificial roof @ .0008.
Since no one would ever want to bid higher than .0008.
Why would they? You can buy shares directly from Ken for that price.

I don't see how it is good for the shareholders that Ken sets the maximum price of the share.

In my eyes that is pure manipulation.

[1714258585]

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[1714258585]

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[1714258585]

1714258585

[kslaughter]

For example, lets say Ken needs to sell 1,000,000 shares now for the (imminent) purchase of materials to build Avalon boards/ new order of chips/ whatever:

• He puts them to sell on BitFunder at 0.0008.
• Next minute, he is immediately undercut at 10,000@0.00079999 by someone, and the other minute at 5,000@0.00079998 by another guy, etc.
• This keeps going and after a week he has sold nothing, while the undercutters were steadily selling their shares.

To me it is obvious that he should sell the shares on an open market, ALWAYS.

If Ken start selling on a "closed market", the share price will get an artificial roof @ .0008.
Since no one would ever want to bid higher than .0008.
Why would they? You can buy shares directly from Ken for that price.

I don't see how it is good for the shareholders that Ken sets the maximum price of the share.

In my eyes that is pure manipulation.

I will not sell any shares in a private transaction lower than the current market price.  As I have said, I want to increase shareholder value which is indicated by the spot price.  Shareholders do not have to worry, as I am in for the long run and want to increase the value of the company.

[Vbs]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve the problem entitled "death by starvation".

My solution is an OPEN primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

In BitFunder, I'd be happy with something like this (mock-up):

[stenkross]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve this problem.

My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

[josiasrdz]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve this problem.

My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

+1

[stereotype]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve this problem.

My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

+1

Ditto +1

[Vbs]

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

I never said I wanted a closed market. Please read my posts again. They were never about that.

[LorenzoMoney]

At this point, I trust Ken. He said he had ordered loads of ASIC Chips and Avalon machines, many people doubted him, and he shared photos proving he had the machines delivered and proved on BTCGUILD.com that he could get them up and running.  We all learned from the incident with that offering of new shares at .0005 when market was above .0008. I trust Ken and am sure he will do the right thing about new stock offerings.

VPS, when you say "My solution is an OPEN primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin." and that without it AMC will die of starvation, you could not be any more inaccurate.

First of all, an IPO and when companies sell shares they are holding, it should never be to get funds for ongoing operations expenses. IPOs and selling shares they are holding should be for capital expenses, and to expand development and develop expansion. If a company cannot meet daily operating costs through their own income, then the business model is seriously flawed. Yes, I know AMC JUST now got their mining machines up and running, and it takes time to get the BTC/money flow happening, but, operating costs have to be generated from mining income and other investments and not from stock sales. On the other hand, I fully support the plan to sell more stock and use the proceeds of those sales to buy more mining equipment and betting security (fire alarm system, insurance on equipment, monitored facility) to build up confidence and profits. Also, on real exchanges like NYSE, sales of stock outside of the exchange itself always follow the market price. There are such things as options to buy at a lower price which are often given to executives as part of salary packages, but those deals happen ultimately on the open, public market. Any trades or sales in the bitcoin world that are not done on the public market would bring suspicion. If AMC needs more capital to buy more mining computers, and needs to sell stock, it should be sold within the BitFunder exchange and at the market price.

It doesn't matter if flippers, speculators or investors buy at the market price as long as the sales are public and generate income for capital investments for AMC.  There is no need to worry about flippers undercutting the market price or the price that AMC decides to sell, because the fund of shares the flippers are selling will eventually be bought up and then the stock of shares AMC is selling will eventually sell. Also, if AMC owned shares don't sell at market price, then it is clear that the price of AMC is too high. After all, the market, supply and demand, determines the price. Individuals only can provide bids and asks.

If AMC needs fast cash and THAT is the reason it needs to unload a large block of shares, then the conversation has to switch to why it has not managed the cash it has. Profits should come from mining and not from stock sales. All of these issue are very important. AMC has the potential of becoming a very big, successful and great company. There are many important and difficult decisions that will need to be made. Ken is a great guy but no one can do everything and I hope that soon, he decides to establish a corporate board of directors to help not just make decisions but share in the responsibility of  all the upcoming difficult decisions that go in the day to day operations of running a potential million dollar company.

[Mabsark]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve this problem.

My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

If someone wanted to buy 1 millions shares at 0.0008 BTC then there would obviously be demand. As Vbs points out, Ken selling share privately is a good thing for AMC and it's investors and is a bad thing ONLY for flippers. It doesn't surprise me that some people would be against that, as it would cut into their profits. Flippers do not care whether or not AMC succeeds and likewise, I don't care in the slightest if selling shares privately cuts flippers profits.

Some people on these forums treat the market like some religious people treat their god. The market is not infallible, in fact, it's quite easily manipulated.

+1 for Ken selling shares privately if needed.

[ThickAsThieves]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve this problem.

My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

If someone wanted to buy 1 millions shares at 0.0008 BTC then there would obviously be demand. As Vbs points out, Ken selling share privately is a good thing for AMC and it's investors and is a bad thing ONLY for flippers. It doesn't surprise me that some people would be against that, as it would cut into their profits. Flippers do not care whether or not AMC succeeds and likewise, I don't care in the slightest if selling shares privately cuts flippers profits.

Some people on these forums treat the market like some religious people treat their god. The market is not infallible, in fact, it's quite easily manipulated.

+1 for Ken selling shares privately if needed.

He does not need to sell them privately, it ends up the same as putting them on open market at the correct price. So what if the flippers bail out and undercut him for a day, it'll iron itself out if he prices them realistically.

[joris]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve the problem entitled "death by starvation".

My solution is an OPEN primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

In BitFunder, I'd be happy with something like this (mock-up):

I like this idea: more choice for market participants and it is quite transparant. One can only spend his BTC once on a asset and investment it does matter in whose pockets your money ends up.

[kslaughter]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve the problem entitled "death by starvation".

My solution is an OPEN primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

I like this idea: more choice for market participants and it is quite transparant. One can only spend his BTC once on a asset and investment it does matter in whose pockets your money ends up.

Great Idea Joris.  Now get Ukto to do it.  Well, he is off to who know where do some other deal, not taking care of bitfunder.

[Vbs]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve the problem entitled "death by starvation".

My solution is an OPEN primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

I like this idea: more choice for market participants and it is quite transparant. One can only spend his BTC once on a asset and investment it does matter in whose pockets your money ends up.

Great Idea Joris.  Now get Ukto to do it.  Well, he is off to who know where do some other deal, not taking care of bitfunder.

I've talked to him about this idea, he seemed receptive to analyse it furter.

The primary/secondary market idea is currently implemented in Havelock, for example look at: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=HIM

The primary market is under the "Public Offerings" tab, while the secondary market is under the "Buy / Sell on Market" page.

[Mabsark]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve this problem.

My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

If someone wanted to buy 1 millions shares at 0.0008 BTC then there would obviously be demand. As Vbs points out, Ken selling share privately is a good thing for AMC and it's investors and is a bad thing ONLY for flippers. It doesn't surprise me that some people would be against that, as it would cut into their profits. Flippers do not care whether or not AMC succeeds and likewise, I don't care in the slightest if selling shares privately cuts flippers profits.

Some people on these forums treat the market like some religious people treat their god. The market is not infallible, in fact, it's quite easily manipulated.

+1 for Ken selling shares privately if needed.

He does not need to sell them privately, it ends up the same as putting them on open market at the correct price. So what if the flippers bail out and undercut him for a day, it'll iron itself out if he prices them realistically.

Well, if he needed the money to buy hardware, it would mean he would have to sell more shares than intended in order to purchase that hardware. That would mean less hardware could be bought, which means a lower percentage of the network hash rate, which leads to lower mining profits, which leads to lower dividends. How is that good for long term investors?

[ThickAsThieves]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve this problem.

My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

If someone wanted to buy 1 millions shares at 0.0008 BTC then there would obviously be demand. As Vbs points out, Ken selling share privately is a good thing for AMC and it's investors and is a bad thing ONLY for flippers. It doesn't surprise me that some people would be against that, as it would cut into their profits. Flippers do not care whether or not AMC succeeds and likewise, I don't care in the slightest if selling shares privately cuts flippers profits.

Some people on these forums treat the market like some religious people treat their god. The market is not infallible, in fact, it's quite easily manipulated.

+1 for Ken selling shares privately if needed.

He does not need to sell them privately, it ends up the same as putting them on open market at the correct price. So what if the flippers bail out and undercut him for a day, it'll iron itself out if he prices them realistically.

Well, if he needed the money to buy hardware, it would mean he would have to sell more shares than intended in order to purchase that hardware. That would mean less hardware could be bought, which means a lower percentage of the network hash rate, which leads to lower mining profits, which leads to lower dividends. How is that good for long term investors?

Investors... most of the people in here are speculators that just wanna see the high price of AMC maintained. The fact is that his original plan only called for the funding necessary raised by selling shares at .0005. If AMC is ready to raise more money quickly, all he needs to do is stick with his plan. No need for illusory BF features.

[matuszed]

This happens all the time in the real equity markets, large desk trades are routinely done OTC and then just printed to the market later.

[joris]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve this problem.

My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

If someone wanted to buy 1 millions shares at 0.0008 BTC then there would obviously be demand. As Vbs points out, Ken selling share privately is a good thing for AMC and it's investors and is a bad thing ONLY for flippers. It doesn't surprise me that some people would be against that, as it would cut into their profits. Flippers do not care whether or not AMC succeeds and likewise, I don't care in the slightest if selling shares privately cuts flippers profits.

Some people on these forums treat the market like some religious people treat their god. The market is not infallible, in fact, it's quite easily manipulated.

+1 for Ken selling shares privately if needed.

He does not need to sell them privately, it ends up the same as putting them on open market at the correct price. So what if the flippers bail out and undercut him for a day, it'll iron itself out if he prices them realistically.

Well, if he needed the money to buy hardware, it would mean he would have to sell more shares than intended in order to purchase that hardware. That would mean less hardware could be bought, which means a lower percentage of the network hash rate, which leads to lower mining profits, which leads to lower dividends. How is that good for long term investors?

Investors... most of the people in here are speculators that just wanna see the high price of AMC maintained. The fact is that his original plan only called for the funding necessary raised by selling shares at .0005. If AMC is ready to raise more money quickly, all he needs to do is stick with his plan. No need for illusory BF features.

Buy and hold or flipping as soon as possible: buying assets for a profit is always speculation, but on the short term side, share price is relevant right here and now, while for the long term, current share price is irrelevant, except for peace of mind or changing your mind.

And other thoughts I want to spew:

Buying a mining asset, is mainly speculation on future dividends since the underlying asset is not does not retain its value well: it's buying hardware which becomes obsolete in a short time frame and which you mine till it die or direct costs become too high. So your money is burned and then you depend on machines, management and environment.

An interesting feature though of AMC (and some other miners), is structural withholding part of the profits to reinvest in new hardware. This should give enough purchasing power to gain and retain a share of the daily minted BTC. Dreaming on, this could render a gross 1188 satoshi @ 33% @ 25 BTC per block per share. Net revenue will decline by marginal costs of mining. I see a share in the cooperative mainly as a right to this potential revenue stream.

And next to reinvestment, there should be some indirect profit on hardware sales by VMC through royalties. However, BTC-revenues from hardware are declining fast, so it could be an interesting venture from a fiat perspective, but isn't for a BTC-denominated share.

If someone is more optimistic on the (time frame of the) ROI, I'll sell. And if someone is more pessimistic, I'll buy. Or I do anything I feel like, for tons of other, irrational reasons.

[Mabsark]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve this problem.

My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

If someone wanted to buy 1 millions shares at 0.0008 BTC then there would obviously be demand. As Vbs points out, Ken selling share privately is a good thing for AMC and it's investors and is a bad thing ONLY for flippers. It doesn't surprise me that some people would be against that, as it would cut into their profits. Flippers do not care whether or not AMC succeeds and likewise, I don't care in the slightest if selling shares privately cuts flippers profits.

Some people on these forums treat the market like some religious people treat their god. The market is not infallible, in fact, it's quite easily manipulated.

+1 for Ken selling shares privately if needed.

He does not need to sell them privately, it ends up the same as putting them on open market at the correct price. So what if the flippers bail out and undercut him for a day, it'll iron itself out if he prices them realistically.

Well, if he needed the money to buy hardware, it would mean he would have to sell more shares than intended in order to purchase that hardware. That would mean less hardware could be bought, which means a lower percentage of the network hash rate, which leads to lower mining profits, which leads to lower dividends. How is that good for long term investors?

Investors... most of the people in here are speculators that just wanna see the high price of AMC maintained. The fact is that his original plan only called for the funding necessary raised by selling shares at .0005. If AMC is ready to raise more money quickly, all he needs to do is stick with his plan. No need for illusory BF features.

Selling shares to pay for hardware is part of the original plan. From the description on BitFunder:

As of the time of this writing, up to 40,000,000 will be released over time to the public on a varying time scale as capital is required to complete the project.

[kslaughter]

Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually.

AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation.

Please provide ways to solve this problem.

My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin.

If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price.
Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually.

Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way.

I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling.

If someone wanted to buy 1 millions shares at 0.0008 BTC then there would obviously be demand. As Vbs points out, Ken selling share privately is a good thing for AMC and it's investors and is a bad thing ONLY for flippers. It doesn't surprise me that some people would be against that, as it would cut into their profits. Flippers do not care whether or not AMC succeeds and likewise, I don't care in the slightest if selling shares privately cuts flippers profits.

Some people on these forums treat the market like some religious people treat their god. The market is not infallible, in fact, it's quite easily manipulated.

+1 for Ken selling shares privately if needed.

He does not need to sell them privately, it ends up the same as putting them on open market at the correct price. So what if the flippers bail out and undercut him for a day, it'll iron itself out if he prices them realistically.

Well, if he needed the money to buy hardware, it would mean he would have to sell more shares than intended in order to purchase that hardware. That would mean less hardware could be bought, which means a lower percentage of the network hash rate, which leads to lower mining profits, which leads to lower dividends. How is that good for long term investors?

Investors... most of the people in here are speculators that just wanna see the high price of AMC maintained. The fact is that his original plan only called for the funding necessary raised by selling shares at .0005. If AMC is ready to raise more money quickly, all he needs to do is stick with his plan. No need for illusory BF features.

Buy and hold or flipping as soon as possible: buying assets for a profit is always speculation, but on the short term side, share price is relevant right here and now, while for the long term, current share price is irrelevant, except for peace of mind or changing your mind.

And other thoughts I want to spew:

Buying a mining asset, is mainly speculation on future dividends since the underlying asset is not does not retain its value well: it's buying hardware which becomes obsolete in a short time frame and which you mine till it die or direct costs become too high. So your money is burned and then you depend on machines, management and environment.

An interesting feature though of AMC (and some other miners), is structural withholding part of the profits to reinvest in new hardware. This should give enough purchasing power to gain and retain a share of the daily minted BTC. Dreaming on, this could render a gross 1188 satoshi @ 33% @ 25 BTC per block per share. Net revenue will decline by marginal costs of mining. I see a share in the cooperative mainly as a right to this potential revenue stream.

And next to reinvestment, there should be some indirect profit on hardware sales by VMC through royalties. However, BTC-revenues from hardware are declining fast, so it could be an interesting venture from a fiat perspective, but isn't for a BTC-denominated share.

If someone is more optimistic on the (time frame of the) ROI, I'll sell. And if someone is more pessimistic, I'll buy. Or I do anything I feel like, for tons of other, irrational reasons.

One other income stream although related to hardware sales, is chip sales.  Avalon sold ~7.5 Million Dollars in chips is less than 2 months, should AMC have a better chip it could do the same or better.  So a 10% royalty whould bring in ~$750,000 to AMC confers and that would be about 0.01875/share or 22.218272307 X the current price of .00084390.

[josiasrdz]

One other income stream although related to hardware sales, is chip sales.  Avalon sold ~7.5 Million Dollars in chips is less than 2 months, should AMC have a better chip it could do the same or better.  So a 10% royalty whould bring in ~$750,000 to AMC confers and that would be about 0.01875/share or 22.218272307 X the current price of .00084390.

That sounds like a great idea, but you need to release the information of the chips asap so that third party individuals (like burnin and bkkcoins) start designing boards for the chips