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Author Topic: First BFL ASIC!  (Read 58035 times)
coinnewb
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April 01, 2013, 04:56:35 PM
 #141

I did not gamble on this but come on guys, I don't understand how it is possible that some of you are considering this as "BFL is shipping"

What a joke
+1

Full disclosure: I did not bet on this either, but if you think BFL shipped by the evidence presented so far, you should run for a political office.
Once a transaction has 6 confirmations, it is extremely unlikely that an attacker without at least 50% of the network's computation power would be able to reverse it.
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April 01, 2013, 04:58:36 PM
Last edit: April 01, 2013, 05:08:38 PM by Bogart
 #142

For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.

It does sound like they met these requirements. Wow, what a slimy way to win a bet. Good thing I made my wagers on bitbet. Always read the fine print!!

For what it's worth, I agree that the bet is won, the screenshot was posted, and the date on the screenshot is 2013-03-31 so it was March, it was in Luke's possession

The post happened on April 1, and the post date/time is what the bet terms specify.  (Faking a timestamp on a photo is trivial BTW.)

Also I don't believe it was in Luke's possession.  In the photo it is clearly sitting on the same test bench as was shown in Josh's demo video, and the file metadata data shows the photo author as "Josh".  Luke himself said that he "left it at BFL".

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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April 01, 2013, 05:02:38 PM
 #143

I did not gamble on this but come on guys, I don't understand how it is possible that some of you are considering this as "BFL is shipping"

What a joke
+1

Full disclosure: I did not bet on this either, but if you think BFL shipped by the evidence presented so far, you should run for a political office.
+2
No money at stake, but come on. This is MNW-level bet weaseling.
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April 01, 2013, 05:04:44 PM
 #144

Josh has already stated in the shoutbox on BFL's forum that they WILL be donating 1000 btc to charity. Not sure what all the debate is about here...
1 miiillion bucks?

:O

Tip Me if believe BTC1 will hit $1 Million by 2030
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April 01, 2013, 05:10:22 PM
 #145

Also "The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate."  Which product was your order for Luke?  A Single or a Little Single?
This is my Little Single.

Is that what you had ordered?

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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April 01, 2013, 05:12:11 PM
 #146

Josh has already stated in the shoutbox on BFL's forum that they WILL be donating 1000 btc to charity. Not sure what all the debate is about here...
1 miiillion bucks?

:O

$100k at a $100 bitcoin
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April 01, 2013, 05:16:38 PM
 #147

No product was shipped

Agreed.

Post was after 31st March

Agreed.

No proof of actual hashing - or can a pool testify

Disagree.  If you look closely at the photo, you can make out the eligius address:

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1CdcYVP4T4hjHwt353pEnGHrigeDLvuvZL

Looks like 2 singles "paired up" - screen even says, two devices

Disagree.  In the photo you can see that only 1 board is powered.

Was by an employee

Debatable.

Either of these being true, makes the bet false.

Agreed?

Disagree.  Any of the above being true makes the bet statement "Butterfly Labs will not ship ASIC-based Bitforce SC products before April 2013" true.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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April 01, 2013, 05:19:32 PM
 #148

When I first heard the following read really fast over the radio I started laughing. But now I understand why things like that are getting done: litigation is the only other option.
Quote
Void where prohibited by law. Employees, temporary employees, independent contractors and interns of BFL, and each of their respective subsidiaries, parents, partners, other sweepstakes sponsors, advertising and promotional agencies and the immediate family members of each, and any persons living with, any such employees are not eligible to enter or to win. The term "immediate family members" includes spouses, parents, grandparents, siblings, children, and grandchildren.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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April 01, 2013, 05:21:16 PM
 #149

Disclosure:  I do not have any stake in the outcome of the "BFL Ships ASIC before April 1st" bet.


With that said, from what I have read and the details about the unit not being in the possession of Luke-Jr, it being on the test bench and Luke not being with the unit.  Also mentioning that BFL likely violated their own 1/3 shipping plan, shows that this was more of a STUNTto win a bet and not a real shipment.


Verdict: Bet is lost


Sidenote
:  It is promising to finally see this type of progress from BFL and we should not berate them so harshly when they really gave people information they have been craving.   I know they are late and have done many objectionable tactics, but you can't burn them on the stake for this one.  It is good to see that information released.  

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April 01, 2013, 05:50:54 PM
 #150

Disclosure:  I do not have any stake in the outcome of the "BFL Ships ASIC before April 1st" bet.


With that said, from what I have read and the details about the unit not being in the possession of Luke-Jr, it being on the test bench and Luke not being with the unit.  Also mentioning that BFL likely violated their own 1/3 shipping plan, shows that this was more of a STUNTto win a bet and not a real shipment.


Verdict: Bet is lost


Sidenote
:  It is promising to finally see this type of progress from BFL and we should not berate them so harshly when they really gave people information they have been craving.   I know they are late and have done many objectionable tactics, but you can't burn them on the stake for this one.  It is good to see that information released.  

I think the general consensus is that they lost the bet, but people are fighting over what is the reason why the lost the bet. For those that have not actually read the text of the bet:
"For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate."

it's true that none of those conditions mention anything about shipping, but the "Before April 1" line stands out. In the absence of a time zone specification, I'd go with UTC. It's up to the BoB to figure out what the timezone is and then sift through the remaining points.
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April 01, 2013, 05:55:24 PM
 #151

What's the over/under on how long it hashed until it starting smoking and caught on fire??  Cheesy
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April 01, 2013, 05:58:03 PM
 #152

No product was shipped

Agreed.

Post was after 31st March

Agreed.

No proof of actual hashing - or can a pool testify

Disagree.  If you look closely at the photo, you can make out the eligius address:

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1CdcYVP4T4hjHwt353pEnGHrigeDLvuvZL

Looks like 2 singles "paired up" - screen even says, two devices

Disagree.  In the photo you can see that only 1 board is powered.

Was by an employee

Debatable.

Either of these being true, makes the bet false.

Agreed?

Disagree.  Any of the above being true makes the bet statement "Butterfly Labs will not ship ASIC-based Bitforce SC products before April 2013" true.

Yes, I meant true.

The post was after midnight, as was the hasing on the pool above, and imo it's an employee testing out the hardware on a dev bench at the BFL lab - i'd even question if Luke was there or took these pictures.
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April 01, 2013, 06:04:28 PM
 #153

Clearly whoever created the bet didn't word it very well. They left a lot of room for them to slither out. It's good theater though. Lets see how much time this new information buys BFL.  Cheesy
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April 01, 2013, 06:25:17 PM
 #154

Clearly whoever created the bet didn't word it very well. They left a lot of room for them to slither out. It's good theater though. Lets see how much time this new information buys BFL.  Cheesy

Remember, there are two bets, one of which was a gentleman's agreement of sorts of which Josh/BFL are on record stating that it will be honored. The other is a betofbitcoins.com bet, worded the best way possible, making sure minimal argument ensues, yet...

Clearly, the midnight petroleum was being burned in KC to hopefully produce before the deadline, but to no prevail, hence conceding their bet.

I don't know what part of Australia Luke lives in, but local time of his post (the OP of this thread) was late afternoon (3-6PM) on April 1, 2013. Luke stated he received (took possession) of said device the day before, in his word(s) yesterday (local time), thus claiming it was working then but now getting around to showing proof. Since the proof was in BFL's possession, they would have surely shown it ~24 hours earlier, sometime between the YouTube posting and the starting of this thread.

What now has ensued is pages of discussion about a bet(s) taking away from us other important Bitcoin related issues that need addressing like should rockso get a scammer tag.

Peace, all.

~Bruno K~

1FkHCFv8PN1kerJct3RsQQpMcRoTnx2vWe
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5236380.0
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April 01, 2013, 06:41:49 PM
 #155

I don't have any bet, but seems due to the vague terms of the bet itself, neither side can claim to be a clear winner. The delivery itself is a big progress anyway

It seems the little single has stopped hashing since a while ago, too much heat?

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April 01, 2013, 06:45:05 PM
 #156

For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.

It does sound like they met these requirements. Wow, what a slimy way to win a bet. Good thing I made my wagers on bitbet. Always read the fine print!!

For what it's worth, I agree that the bet is won, the screenshot was posted, and the date on the screenshot is 2013-03-31 so it was March, it was in Luke's possession, it was mining and it's a little single within 75% parameters of 30Gh (it was hashing at average of 23.52 which is 78%.  Luke-Jr received the rig by picking it up in person at the BFL premises (which BFL have stated is fine if arranged in advance) then leaving it there to be hosted.  Nowhere in the bet were any other rules stated.

I don't think this is a debate that will ever be concluded though because people will have diametrically opposed views based on their ideology, regardless of how betsofbitcoin resolve it, there will be a load of angry/unhappy people.

Will
Sorry, but it is not a finished product and isn't the retail (as in production ready) model.

It is a board screwed to a metal plate with incomplete software and is (bluntly put) a prototype. They do not win the bet. Not by a mile.

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April 01, 2013, 06:48:22 PM
 #157

Wow this is great news.   And now that they are shipping and they can make 500, oops, 300 per day as they stated, when will we see the other 299 rigs that they shipped on the first day go up?


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April 01, 2013, 06:51:46 PM
 #158

If BFL would allow me, and if the forum participants would pool together enough to cover a half-day or so of salary (which would be roughly $100 - I'm low on PTO and need to save it for kids illnesses), I'd be willing to drive over to their office for whatever kind of proof/evidence y'all are looking to see.
 
I live in Lawrence, which is half-hour to the outskirts of KC, and about one hour to just about anywhere in KC.
 
I'm curious about all this myself, since I have a couple products on pre-order.  
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April 01, 2013, 06:52:59 PM
 #159

Wow this is great news.   And now that they are shipping and they can make 500, oops, 300 per day as they stated, when will we see the other 299 rigs that they shipped on the first day go up?

They are not shipping...

People don't understand that BFL shipping a PROTOTYPE to a BFL EMPLOYEE doesn't mean they are actually shipping finished products to customers yet.
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April 01, 2013, 06:55:37 PM
 #160

Wow this is great news.   And now that they are shipping and they can make 500, oops, 300 per day as they stated, when will we see the other 299 rigs that they shipped on the first day go up?

They are not shipping...

People don't understand that BFL shipping a PROTOTYPE to a BFL EMPLOYEE doesn't mean they are actually shipping finished products to customers yet.

and some people do not understand sarcasm.  Wink


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