First BFL ASIC!

[wojtek]

at first i was disappointed in verdict, because clearly BFL didn't shipped anything (and i think they won't ship anytime soon). but now i think bet judge did good job. bet was faulty and cound not be resolved with this set of events.

it is clear that only purpose of this topic and those photos was to change outcome of BoB bet. i wonder who is behind it and how much he bet for BFL. however i see nothing wrong in trying to win bet with any (fair) means available.

so unless bet was formulated to be ambiguous on purpose there is no scam here.

[AndyRossy]

I'm pretty pissed over this bet being canceled. (http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=701)
I had betted "disagree".

I started with betsofbitco.in recently, and so far I've only lost and had bets cancelled. I thought this was my first sure win, completely indisputable, and then it gets cancelled too!!

In the editor's note they start out talking about the title being ambiguous, which I think doesn't matter in this case. The biggest problem for me is that they then state "On the other hand the conditions in the description are met." But they aren't. The first condition says "before April 1st" yet this thread wasn't started until 1:36 AM EST on April 1st.

If every condition is true, the statement is true. If any condition is false, the statement is false. No matter if you include the title or not in this one, the statement is false because one of the conditions was false.

People have also said that both sides have compelling arguments so there was no choice but to cancel it. But what is the argument for the "all conditions were met" people? How can you possibly argue that it happened before April 1st with the timestamp stating otherwise?

It was still March 31 in some parts of the world, and a timezone wasn't specified as part of the bet.

The BoB site states that all deadline times are US EST.

Although!!

I just realize a technical problem: The description says "Before April 1st" yet the settings for the statement are set for end of day, April 1st. It's obvious the submitter thought choosing April 1st would mean 12 am April first, when it actually means 11:59pm April 1st. I guess that is enough of a technicality to allow the losers to argue for a draw  

Still, others have posted multiple reasons why the statement is false, and I haven't yet seen any compelling reasons why it's true...?

E: Small correction, I bet "Agree". I was sure they would not ship before April 1.

How was this post credible? Pictures were taking by josh - an employee and mailed over.

[muyuu]

Any betting house who questions that BFL has NOT shipped to customers is in my blacklist.

The product is not finished. End of story. With judgement like that I can only assume they are corrupt.

[nathanrees19]

Any betting house who questions that BFL has NOT shipped to customers is in my blacklist.

oh fuck not muyuu's blacklist!

The product is not finished. End of story. With judgement like that I can only assume they are corrupt.

Did the bet specifically mention the product being finished?

[keatonatron]

Any betting house who questions that BFL has NOT shipped to customers is in my blacklist.

oh fuck not muyuu's blacklist!

The product is not finished. End of story. With judgement like that I can only assume they are corrupt.

Did the bet specifically mention the product being finished?

It mentioned the product being shipped to a customer and working. Logically speaking, why would they ship it if it wasn't complete?

I think that's the bulk of Muyuu's reply--if it's not even done, of course they aren't going to ship it to a paying customer.

[nathanrees19]

It mentioned the product being shipped to a customer and working.

Did it mention a finished product?

Logically speaking, why would they ship it if it wasn't complete?

There are many reasons, and all of them are irrelevant.

[Matthew N. Wright]

As much as I was rooting for BFL in the past (I even asked them for one to test for the first Bitcoin Magazine and was so overjoyed out how stylish their boxes looked over typical "nerdy"-but-functional, ones), I can't help but agree that this bet smells fishy. It's me-style bet wriggling, except they're actually a serious company. I am starting to rethink my position on whether they are a giant scam, and everyone working for them being bribed or what (not because I want to think badly of them, but because it seems to happen more and more in this over-trusting community of pathetic hopefuls).

I hope this is investigated more and this community continues to grow more skeptical (not abusive mind you) of promise, regardless of how many fans are in a box.

[Logik]

If you think that an unfinished product can be "shipped" you must be brain damaged or trolling.

[nathanrees19]

If you think that an unfinished product can be "shipped" you must be brain damaged or trolling.

God, this thread is gold. Keep the laughs coming

[mezzomix]

I hope this is investigated more and this community continues to grow more skeptical (not abusive mind you) of promise, regardless of how many fans are in a box.

Absolutely right. BTW where's your scammer Tag? IIRC you made a similar stunt like BFL with your bet?!

[Matthew N. Wright]

I hope this is investigated more and this community continues to grow more skeptical (not abusive mind you) of promise, regardless of how many fans are in a box.

Absolutely right. BTW where's your scammer Tag? IIRC you made a similar stunt like BFL with your bet?!

I'm not a scammer, just pretty naive of the consequences of my actions on occasion and was acting a bit manic at that time. I've worked and continue to work diligently to make up for my mistakes, including paying people for the bet. In hindsight, I had underestimated the greed in this community and although I did help hundreds of people learn a common sense lesson at a great personal expense, it also had the adverse effect of directing legitimate steam away from Pirate and towards me instead (angry mob-style). At the point I knew it was time to get my life together and I took a long break to do just that.

I'm less concerned with reputation on a forum than I am with the development of my own integrity and principles. When BFL starts showing that same integrity, I'll believe in them again. Right now they're starting to look like a large heist planned by Sonny. Sorry, Sonny, but that shoe is starting to look very comfy on you.

[muyuu]

If you think that an unfinished product can be "shipped" you must be brain damaged or trolling.

God, this thread is gold. Keep the laughs coming

You are contributing greatly by being a laughingstock.

Keep up the good work.

[nathanrees19]

If you think that an unfinished product can be "shipped" you must be brain damaged or trolling.

God, this thread is gold. Keep the laughs coming

You are contributing greatly by being a laughingstock.

Keep up the good work.

I believe it goes both ways, yeah?

I'm going to resume laughing at Mr. it's-literally-impossible-to-ship-an-unfinished-product.

[DataPlumber]

If you think that an unfinished product can be "shipped" you must be brain damaged or trolling.

SimCity?

[Korbman]

If you think that an unfinished product can be "shipped" you must be brain damaged or trolling.

SimCity?

Or really any game / application / operating system / other software ever...even hardware isn't totally perfected at times..hence later renditions of it.

Anyway..I like how this thread has grown by 100% since I was last here. Just to throw in my 2 Satoshis on the previous bet discussion, since the title does count towards the 'betting contract' as coinjedi admitted, then the bet is clearly true. At that point I don't see any way around it, and calling it a draw shouldn't have happened.

Back on topic: Luke, while you were there did you overhear / encounter any other issues besides those relating to power (if you can tell us)? Just wondering if there are other problems with the chips or boards that I get to wait another 6 months for them to resolve...

[muyuu]

If you think that an unfinished product can be "shipped" you must be brain damaged or trolling.

SimCity?

Shipping a defective product is not the same as shipping an unfinished one to get it finished  

Luke is not a final customer. Although he might be one in the future.

[greyhawk]

Hey Nathan, which BFL product did you order?

The 25 GH machine or the 50 GH machine?

[DataPlumber]

If you think that an unfinished product can be "shipped" you must be brain damaged or trolling.

SimCity?

Shipping a defective product is not the same as shipping an unfinished one to get it finished  

Luke is not a final customer. Although he might be one in the future.

Not to get too far afield, but shipping an unfinished product just to get it "finished" / meet a deadline is EXACTLY what happened in SimCity's case, as far as I can tell.

But they were able to claim it shipped.

My point is that you don't have to be 'brain damaged or trolling' to call the shipping of something that "only marginally qualifies as ready" as "shipping."  Companies much larger than BFL have been doing it for decades.

To be clear, I'm not taking a side here, just trying to call out the hyperbole a bit.  But then, this is probably the wrong thread for that.

<puts self on ignore>

[tbd]

Companies do crazy things to claim to "ship" products.

A long time ago, Miniscribe, a Colorado hard drive manufacturer, shipped bricks (yes, bricks) as hard drives:

In mid-December 1987, Miniscribe's management, with Wiles' approval and Schleibaum's assistance, engaged in an extensive cover-up which included recording the shipment of bricks as in-transit inventory. To implement the plan, Miniscribe employees first rented an empty warehouse in Boulder, Colorado, and procured ten, forty-eight foot exclusive-use trailers. They then purchased 26,000 bricks from the Colorado Brick Company.

On Saturday, December 18, 1987, Schleibaum, Taranta, Huff, Lorea and others gathered at the warehouse. Wiles did not attend. From early morning to late afternoon, those present loaded the bricks onto pallets, shrink wrapped the pallets, and boxed them. The weight of each brick pallet approximated the weight of a pallet of disk drives. The brick pallets then were loaded onto the trailers and taken to a farm in Larimer County, Colorado.

Unsurprisingly, they went bankrupt.

https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/102/102.F3d.1043.94-1592.95-1022.html

[coinnewb]

Any betting house who questions that BFL has NOT shipped to customers is in my blacklist.

The product is not finished. End of story. With judgement like that I can only assume they are corrupt.

+1
Boycott BoB