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Author Topic: [ANN]★vDice Ethereum Blockchain Gambling★  (Read 77008 times)
V1saya
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November 01, 2016, 09:07:49 PM
 #101

I am following and supporting this project. Looking forward on ICO date and more updates on this.

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1531725903
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vdice_io
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November 02, 2016, 01:51:18 PM
 #102

We started life as Bitcoiners back in 2011 (those annoying types who get obsessed with it).

We did this on Ethereum 'cause it was so utterly interesting and available.
If we can do it on rootstock with Bitcoin, then why not. We'll have to dive into the Rootstock code.

But we still think Ethereum has a very, very bright future.
We're more convinced of that now, as we build with it more.
So you started with Bitcoin and as soon something technically better (at that time) with more possibilities (DAPPS, smart contracts) showed up you switched over.
Will you guarantee that in the future when  we possibly may see even more advanced altcoin with better, futuristic solutions implemented you won't ditch your current project and switch again?
I mean current ETH blockchain has some limitations as well.

It's a fair question. Though the facts / assumptions are not technically correct.

We are blockchain nerds. We maintain successful applications for Bitcoin at the moment too.
We've even written applications for Dogecoin that are very successful for that space, on an ongoing basis.

These are all betting / gambling applications. So we stick to a core competency.
As we believe it is wrong to spread yourself too thin. Then nothing gets achieved. That's a core philosophy for us.

So, we don't "ditch" anything. These are ongoing projects that are going well, in a commercial setting.

We have a good core team of developers, some of the best. We have guys even on the original Ethereum founding team.
We also have an extended team of sub-contracted security experts, and developers.

After the crowdsale, with funds, that team will be increased over time, at a manageable pace.

We realise we live and breathe by the developer talent we attract and keep. We consider ourselves very good at that.
It's probably the most important thing. This space has a limited amount of real talent, for how fast the technology is growing.

That will change over an extended period. But it takes time for real talent to re-tool and re-adapt to working with this new technology.

So, it was never a matter of just switching over to Ethereum. It was a platform that allowed us to build an extra application within our core competency.

Please ask further questions if you feel this was not a satisfactory answer. I am not being facetious. Quality questions like this help everyone on this thread.
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November 02, 2016, 01:57:17 PM
 #103

Exactly 2 weeks from now the ICO will start. Get your ETH before it's too late! I'm so excited about this project.

You can also buy with Bitcoin!

We are building a process to make that very easy for BTC holders.
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November 02, 2016, 03:22:34 PM
 #104

Why this thread is in marketplace section?it should be in altcoin announcement section.Move your thread there in order to get much visitors and investors.This is not the right place for the project ANN/pre-ann
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November 02, 2016, 03:30:26 PM
 #105

Why this thread is in marketplace section?it should be in altcoin announcement section.Move your thread there in order to get much visitors and investors.This is not the right place for the project ANN/pre-ann

Here is your answer

Replies from mprep

Quote
Your token is closer to an investment token rather than a coin or some sort of blockchain based functional technology. As such it belongs in the Marketplace (Altcoins) board, rather than the Announcements (Altcoins) one. Nothing I can do here.

Quote
Unless "vSlice altcoin" is a different thing (calling it different doesn't count) than the vSlice token, no, you can't. Also, anyone can "trade it like other altcoin" applies to securities and the numerous crypto-based investment tokens being distributed on altcoin exchanges. If it's more of an investment than an actual new tehcnology/currency, it belongs in Marketplace (Altcoins).


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topesis
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November 02, 2016, 05:14:31 PM
 #106

I also think the decision to put it in this section is because this project is on Gambling and you find more people in this section that are interested in Betting and Gambling, I have not seen any gambling or betting related topic in Alternative section
ToucheCoin
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November 02, 2016, 05:44:54 PM
 #107

Why this thread is in marketplace section?it should be in altcoin announcement section.Move your thread there in order to get much visitors and investors.This is not the right place for the project ANN/pre-ann

Here is your answer

Replies from mprep

Quote
Your token is closer to an investment token rather than a coin or some sort of blockchain based functional technology. As such it belongs in the Marketplace (Altcoins) board, rather than the Announcements (Altcoins) one. Nothing I can do here.

Quote
Unless "vSlice altcoin" is a different thing (calling it different doesn't count) than the vSlice token, no, you can't. Also, anyone can "trade it like other altcoin" applies to securities and the numerous crypto-based investment tokens being distributed on altcoin exchanges. If it's more of an investment than an actual new tehcnology/currency, it belongs in Marketplace (Altcoins).
Oh i got it now,this thread was moved by mod.But what is the difference between investment token and a coin?Vslice token will deployed on eth blockchain as a smart contract and the holders will receive profits from the gambling project.Sorry to ask again but ICONOMI is also an investment token rather than a coin and also behave as any standard ERC20 token.Why ICN thread is still in the announcement board?Vdice is a good project imo and here less people will visit the thread compare to any shitcoin thread in Ann section.I don't understand this things but a pre-ann thread of vdice  in altcoin ann board can get much attention from the potential investors during the ICO.
V1saya
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November 02, 2016, 08:03:35 PM
 #108

I also just noticed this thread yesterday. I was a bit sleepy but it did caught my attention. I like betting and investing in it as what I am currently doing. So this is a perfect opportunity for bettors and investors. Currently there are only few betting sites that accept investors so vDice is giving another room for people to join a unique betting site.

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Snorek
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November 02, 2016, 08:06:23 PM
 #109

We started life as Bitcoiners back in 2011 (those annoying types who get obsessed with it).

We did this on Ethereum 'cause it was so utterly interesting and available.
If we can do it on rootstock with Bitcoin, then why not. We'll have to dive into the Rootstock code.

But we still think Ethereum has a very, very bright future.
We're more convinced of that now, as we build with it more.
So you started with Bitcoin and as soon something technically better (at that time) with more possibilities (DAPPS, smart contracts) showed up you switched over.
Will you guarantee that in the future when  we possibly may see even more advanced altcoin with better, futuristic solutions implemented you won't ditch your current project and switch again?
I mean current ETH blockchain has some limitations as well.

It's a fair question. Though the facts / assumptions are not technically correct.

We are blockchain nerds. We maintain successful applications for Bitcoin at the moment too.
We've even written applications for Dogecoin that are very successful for that space, on an ongoing basis.

These are all betting / gambling applications. So we stick to a core competency.
As we believe it is wrong to spread yourself too thin. Then nothing gets achieved. That's a core philosophy for us.

So, we don't "ditch" anything. These are ongoing projects that are going well, in a commercial setting.

We have a good core team of developers, some of the best. We have guys even on the original Ethereum founding team.
We also have an extended team of sub-contracted security experts, and developers.

After the crowdsale, with funds, that team will be increased over time, at a manageable pace.

We realise we live and breathe by the developer talent we attract and keep. We consider ourselves very good at that.
It's probably the most important thing. This space has a limited amount of real talent, for how fast the technology is growing.

That will change over an extended period. But it takes time for real talent to re-tool and re-adapt to working with this new technology.

So, it was never a matter of just switching over to Ethereum. It was a platform that allowed us to build an extra application within our core competency.

Please ask further questions if you feel this was not a satisfactory answer. I am not being facetious. Quality questions like this help everyone on this thread.
It was actually pretty good answer and I am satisfied with your explanation.

I was wondering about something else - you are obviously gambling platform. And you are building ICO around it.
Have you heard opinions that your ICO may be not good because it is affiliated with gambling industry, hence will be probably used only by gamblers - effectively limiting customer range?
Some people have trouble deciding whether "gambling coin" is good or bad idea. Maybe you will find you niche?
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November 03, 2016, 12:53:30 AM
 #110

So looking a bit deeper into this, it seems even more concerning. My understanding is that the player will need to trust

* random.org
* cloudflare
* oraclize

As the code doesn't appear to be using random.org's sequences (?), so there's no way to check how many times random.org was asked for random numbers. It just checks that random.org gave a result. It can give any result it wants, and there's no guarantees (unlike a provably fair scheme). But worse, is this means oraclize can ask it as many times as it wants. But the TLS layer is done by cloudflare, so you also need to trust them (they can change the result if they want). There's probably no problem trusting all 3 (?!) parties, but the problem I see is if one of them cheats, it's 100% undetectable.

Now contrast this to going to a bitcoin gambling site, say PrimeDice:

* I deposit money
* I play using a proper dedicated interface, and have instant bets
* I check my results
* I withdraw


So in the vdice case, I'm trusting 3 parties who can cheat me (?) but if they do, I'll never know. And they know I'll never know.  Now contrast to PrimeDice, which you do need to trust with the amount you deposit, whoever it's impossible for them to undetectable cheat you. This provides extra incentive for them to be honest.


Anyway, I'm sure i'm missing something as AFAICT it's strictly a step down from current bitcoin gambling?   (Disclaimer: I'm very unfamiliar with ethereum and greatly dislike it, so my reading of the contract is likely totally mistaken)

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November 03, 2016, 07:59:55 AM
 #111

We started life as Bitcoiners back in 2011 (those annoying types who get obsessed with it).

We did this on Ethereum 'cause it was so utterly interesting and available.
If we can do it on rootstock with Bitcoin, then why not. We'll have to dive into the Rootstock code.

But we still think Ethereum has a very, very bright future.
We're more convinced of that now, as we build with it more.
So you started with Bitcoin and as soon something technically better (at that time) with more possibilities (DAPPS, smart contracts) showed up you switched over.
Will you guarantee that in the future when  we possibly may see even more advanced altcoin with better, futuristic solutions implemented you won't ditch your current project and switch again?
I mean current ETH blockchain has some limitations as well.

It's a fair question. Though the facts / assumptions are not technically correct.

We are blockchain nerds. We maintain successful applications for Bitcoin at the moment too.
We've even written applications for Dogecoin that are very successful for that space, on an ongoing basis.

These are all betting / gambling applications. So we stick to a core competency.
As we believe it is wrong to spread yourself too thin. Then nothing gets achieved. That's a core philosophy for us.

So, we don't "ditch" anything. These are ongoing projects that are going well, in a commercial setting.

We have a good core team of developers, some of the best. We have guys even on the original Ethereum founding team.
We also have an extended team of sub-contracted security experts, and developers.

After the crowdsale, with funds, that team will be increased over time, at a manageable pace.

We realise we live and breathe by the developer talent we attract and keep. We consider ourselves very good at that.
It's probably the most important thing. This space has a limited amount of real talent, for how fast the technology is growing.

That will change over an extended period. But it takes time for real talent to re-tool and re-adapt to working with this new technology.

So, it was never a matter of just switching over to Ethereum. It was a platform that allowed us to build an extra application within our core competency.

Please ask further questions if you feel this was not a satisfactory answer. I am not being facetious. Quality questions like this help everyone on this thread.
It was actually pretty good answer and I am satisfied with your explanation.

I was wondering about something else - you are obviously gambling platform. And you are building ICO around it.
Have you heard opinions that your ICO may be not good because it is affiliated with gambling industry, hence will be probably used only by gamblers - effectively limiting customer range?
Some people have trouble deciding whether "gambling coin" is good or bad idea. Maybe you will find you niche?


The response has been really positive. Most people seem to recongnize:

1). Gambling and blockchains go really well together, and make profit.

2). That despite all the hype around blockchain applications, gambling is already profitable and commercial.

So, that's been great to see.
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November 03, 2016, 08:06:57 AM
 #112

So looking a bit deeper into this, it seems even more concerning. My understanding is that the player will need to trust

* random.org
* cloudflare
* oraclize

As the code doesn't appear to be using random.org's sequences (?), so there's no way to check how many times random.org was asked for random numbers. It just checks that random.org gave a result. It can give any result it wants, and there's no guarantees (unlike a provably fair scheme). But worse, is this means oraclize can ask it as many times as it wants. But the TLS layer is done by cloudflare, so you also need to trust them (they can change the result if they want). There's probably no problem trusting all 3 (?!) parties, but the problem I see is if one of them cheats, it's 100% undetectable.

Now contrast this to going to a bitcoin gambling site, say PrimeDice:

* I deposit money
* I play using a proper dedicated interface, and have instant bets
* I check my results
* I withdraw


So in the vdice case, I'm trusting 3 parties who can cheat me (?) but if they do, I'll never know. And they know I'll never know.  Now contrast to PrimeDice, which you do need to trust with the amount you deposit, whoever it's impossible for them to undetectable cheat you. This provides extra incentive for them to be honest.


Anyway, I'm sure i'm missing something as AFAICT it's strictly a step down from current bitcoin gambling?   (Disclaimer: I'm very unfamiliar with ethereum and greatly dislike it, so my reading of the contract is likely totally mistaken)

I don't understand. You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized  Huh

We respectfully disagree. That's why we love blockchain.
That's why we made the world's 1st FULLY decentralized gambling platform.

There are technical arguments we both can make.
But I think people in Bitcoin forum understand why decentralization is important.
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November 03, 2016, 12:57:33 PM
 #113

I also just noticed this thread yesterday. I was a bit sleepy but it did caught my attention. I like betting and investing in it as what I am currently doing. So this is a perfect opportunity for bettors and investors. Currently there are only few betting sites that accept investors so vDice is giving another room for people to join a unique betting site.

As I said before, most transactions cryptocurrency used in gambling Vdice.io will take part of it
perhaps this will provide an opportunity for investors so let's see this project I'll still be here  Smiley

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November 03, 2016, 03:21:45 PM
 #114

Sorry to be an ass and repost this from another thread, but considering you are asking for a considerable amount of investor money, I think it's prudent to not dodge my technical concerns:


I don't understand. You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized   Huh

We respectfully disagree. That's why we love blockchain.
That's why we made the world's 1st FULLY decentralized gambling platform.

There are technical arguments we both can make.
But I think people in Bitcoin forum understand why decentralization is important.

wth? If this is your serious reply, I'm starting to suspect another ICO scam coin. My concerns are laid out pretty straight forward:

* random.org  can cheat (by picking any number they want)
* cloudflare can cheat (by signing any number they want)
* oraclize can cheat, by calling random.org as many times as they want and picking the result they most like (or reusing results?)


And not only can they cheat, they can undetectable do so.  And you dodge the question with "You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized   Huh"

which is beside the point, and I believe nonsense as you're calling centralized services. It's like call "untitled dice" decentralized, as it's a serverless gambling app -- but the reality is it uses a centralized service (moneypot). Same with yours, you might not need to run a server, but random.org, cloudflare and oraclize all need to.
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November 03, 2016, 03:28:32 PM
 #115

wth? If this is your serious reply, I'm starting to suspect another ICO scam coin.
I wouldn't jump to conclusions just because of a singular post, however I did read their answer earlier today and it did strike me as bit odd. They have no addressed a single thing laid out by you.

My concerns are laid out pretty straight forward:

* random.org  can cheat (by picking any number they want)
* cloudflare can cheat (by signing any number they want)
* oraclize can cheat, by calling random.org as many times as they want and picking the result they most like (or reusing results?)
Maybe you could post some references regarding how those services are exactly involved for those looking at this from the outside. I don't see either one of those cheating (maybe oraclize), but claiming *fully decentralized* would be wrong in that case.

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ToucheCoin
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November 03, 2016, 03:40:57 PM
 #116

I also think the decision to put it in this section is because this project is on Gambling and you find more people in this section that are interested in Betting and Gambling, I have not seen any gambling or betting related topic in Alternative section
Really you can't see any?then i have to say you're a blind man.RBIES and the scam LIR(Let It Ride) are also a gambling related coin.But the topic is still in the ANN board.I don't want to show you the thread link because most of the people already know about this 2 coins which are a gambling coin.
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November 03, 2016, 03:43:32 PM
 #117

Maybe you could post some references regarding how those services are exactly involved for those looking at this from the outside. I don't see either one of those cheating (maybe oraclize), but claiming *fully decentralized* would be wrong in that case.

To be honest, I'm not very familiar with ethereum and its scripting. I just went through the contracts on etherscan.io and took educated guesses and googled for things. After spending a bit more time, I actually /think/ cloudflare might not be able to cheat, because the results appear to be signed from random.org (but I have trouble finding/checking  the code which verifies the signature, does it even exist?). My reading of the logic is that the TLS signature from cloudflare is checked, not the random.org signature, which if so, would allow cloudflare to cheat. But I very well might be wrong, as I said I'm not that familiar with this sort of thing

I don't really mean to accuse them of anything, they're just some concerns i have by reading their code. It'd be nice if they address the issue instead of side stepping it calling it "fully decentralized" which it obviously isn't. If you use a centralized service (oraclized), to call a centralized service (random.org) through a centralized service (cloudflare) done with a decentralized service (ethereum) it doesn't magically become fully decentralized.
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November 03, 2016, 05:20:31 PM
 #118

Here are some updated about news



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November 04, 2016, 01:47:15 AM
 #119

I also think the decision to put it in this section is because this project is on Gambling and you find more people in this section that are interested in Betting and Gambling, I have not seen any gambling or betting related topic in Alternative section
Really you can't see any?then i have to say you're a blind man.RBIES and the scam LIR(Let It Ride) are also a gambling related coin.But the topic is still in the ANN board.I don't want to show you the thread link because most of the people already know about this 2 coins which are a gambling coin.

do not compare rbies to any of those scam coins. plus, if you open your eyes you will know there are a lot of gambling sites on a blockchain...keep learning son.

vdice...i have no opinion yet except that vidalikhisballs looks like a freak on the site.
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November 04, 2016, 01:49:28 AM
 #120

Sorry to be an ass and repost this from another thread, but considering you are asking for a considerable amount of investor money, I think it's prudent to not dodge my technical concerns:


I don't understand. You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized   Huh

We respectfully disagree. That's why we love blockchain.
That's why we made the world's 1st FULLY decentralized gambling platform.

There are technical arguments we both can make.
But I think people in Bitcoin forum understand why decentralization is important.

wth? If this is your serious reply, I'm starting to suspect another ICO scam coin. My concerns are laid out pretty straight forward:

* random.org  can cheat (by picking any number they want)
* cloudflare can cheat (by signing any number they want)
* oraclize can cheat, by calling random.org as many times as they want and picking the result they most like (or reusing results?)


And not only can they cheat, they can undetectable do so.  And you dodge the question with "You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized   Huh"

which is beside the point, and I believe nonsense as you're calling centralized services. It's like call "untitled dice" decentralized, as it's a serverless gambling app -- but the reality is it uses a centralized service (moneypot). Same with yours, you might not need to run a server, but random.org, cloudflare and oraclize all need to.


rhaver, you claim cheating is easy. go and cheat, drain the account and show us proof
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