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Author Topic: Bitcoin-24.com matching engine seems broken, site down.  (Read 63601 times)
bitbadger
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April 18, 2013, 04:27:43 AM
 #261

Now Bitfloor exchange has also closed:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179231.0

https://bitfloor.com/

looking at the list of threads on this site..  wallet thefts, security breaches, hacks, exchange closures..

bitcoin just seems to be one great hell of a mess right now.


True, but I've been around since 2011 and it seems this happens every year in bitcoin.

I remember the mybitcoin scam, mt. gox hack, tradehill closing, mt. gox uk bank account & hong kong bank account closed, bitcoinica scam, intersango became untrustworthy, linode theft, WBX exchange lost coins, pirate scam, btc-e hack, bitfloor hack, cryptoxchange scam and there's probably more I'm haven't metioned here.

Yet despite all this bitcoin is still here and trading over $90.

But it does suck for those who lose money. I have a 5-figure EUR amount stuck with Bitcoin24 but hopeful I will get it back.
Right, but does the Dollar, Euro etc have all this.

You don't get mainstream banks endlessly reporting hacks and break ins.

The Bitcoin sector needs to sharpen up and get serious. All these cock ups just damage the chances of acceptance for Bitcoin amongst the general public.


I agree with you. But the way I see it Bitcoin is still the Wild West even today and sh*t happens. Bitcoin is still too small for the cockups of the last week to have any lasting affect on general public perception. These incidents will likely pass. Hopefully more serious exchanges pop up in the near future to replace bitfloor and bitcoin24. I actually hope Simon will continue with Bitcoin24 2.0 having learned from his mistakes (I would continue using his exchange).
Wild West is a good description. But the cock ups are big for those of us directly affected by it. I hope this incident will "pass" ie that we get our money back.

All this having to chase down snippets of information on IRC, reddit and Fbook is rather like trying to find out the location of the next impromtu techno rave or something.  And because the info is not published on his own site no-one can be sure or not if it really is from him...

But then, the guy is a clubbing DJ...that's how things are done.


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Rockefoten
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April 18, 2013, 04:28:31 AM
 #262

I agree with you. But the way I see it Bitcoin is still the Wild West even today and sh*t happens. Bitcoin is still too small for the cockups of the last week to have any lasting affect on general public perception. These incidents will likely pass. Hopefully more serious exchanges pop up in the near future to replace bitfloor and bitcoin24. I actually hope Simon will continue with Bitcoin24 2.0 having learned from his mistakes (I would continue using his exchange).

I don't think Simon intends to make another Bitcoin 24. I think he already has enough money.
blueberry
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April 18, 2013, 04:40:31 AM
 #263

Now Bitfloor exchange has also closed:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179231.0

https://bitfloor.com/

looking at the list of threads on this site..  wallet thefts, security breaches, hacks, exchange closures..

bitcoin just seems to be one great hell of a mess right now.


True, but I've been around since 2011 and it seems this happens every year in bitcoin.

I remember the mybitcoin scam, mt. gox hack, tradehill closing, mt. gox uk bank account & hong kong bank account closed, bitcoinica scam, intersango became untrustworthy, linode theft, WBX exchange lost coins, pirate scam, btc-e hack, bitfloor hack, cryptoxchange scam and there's probably more I'm haven't metioned here.

Yet despite all this bitcoin is still here and trading over $90.

But it does suck for those who lose money. I have a 5-figure EUR amount stuck with Bitcoin24 but hopeful I will get it back.
Right, but does the Dollar, Euro etc have all this.

You don't get mainstream banks endlessly reporting hacks and break ins.

The Bitcoin sector needs to sharpen up and get serious. All these cock ups just damage the chances of acceptance for Bitcoin amongst the general public.


I agree with you. But the way I see it Bitcoin is still the Wild West even today and sh*t happens. Bitcoin is still too small for the cockups of the last week to have any lasting affect on general public perception. These incidents will likely pass. Hopefully more serious exchanges pop up in the near future to replace bitfloor and bitcoin24. I actually hope Simon will continue with Bitcoin24 2.0 having learned from his mistakes (I would continue using his exchange).
Wild West is a good description. But the cock ups are big for those of us directly affected by it. I hope this incident will "pass" ie that we get our money back.

All this having to chase down snippets of information on IRC, reddit and Fbook is rather like trying to find out the location of the next impromtu techno rave or something.  And because the info is not published on his own site no-one can be sure or not if it really is from him...

But then, the guy is a clubbing DJ...that's how things are done.




I'm affected by it and I am not happy at all about it. Lucky I still have a good chunk of bitcoins in my cold wallet so it's not the end of the world for me, but it still sucks. I think Simon should update us ASAP as I am starting to lose patience with him and I am already considering LEGAL action against him if he doesn't update us soon. Angry
blueberry
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April 18, 2013, 06:04:08 AM
 #264

You are so right.I think we all should.And i think it will be not be difficult to find a really serious layer/s who will be compensated by a percentage from the money they manage to get back.We are talking big numbers here.

Indeed. We're talking as much as 10 MILLION EURO at stake here (€5.5 million in the banks and I'm guessing €4.5 million worth of bitcoins at current price). This would dwarf even the Pirate scam last year.
TimJBenham
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April 18, 2013, 06:15:17 AM
 #265

You don't get mainstream banks endlessly reporting hacks and break ins.

Mainstream banks generally wouldn't, would they? Moreover they have a great deal of experience and tremendous resources to protect their servers.

The Bitcoin sector needs to sharpen up and get serious. All these cock ups just damage the chances of acceptance for Bitcoin amongst the general public.

This I agree with. I get the impression exchanges are being started by enthusiasts with no experience in finance or banking and likely no business experience whatever.

You are a warlord in the outskirts of the known world struggling to establish a kingdom in the wild lands.
bitbadger
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April 18, 2013, 07:05:22 AM
 #266

You are so right.I think we all should.And i think it will be not be difficult to find a really serious layer/s who will be compensated by a percentage from the money they manage to get back.We are talking big numbers here.

Indeed. We're talking as much as 10 MILLION EURO at stake here (€5.5 million in the banks and I'm guessing €4.5 million worth of bitcoins at current price). This would dwarf even the Pirate scam last year.
Yes and just the sort of story the media like to get their teeth into. I think as the affected parties in this with so much at stake we're entitled to some proper information.

Quote from: TimJBenham on Today at 06:15:17 AM
Quote from: bitbadger on Today at 03:26:21 AM
The Bitcoin sector needs to sharpen up and get serious. All these cock ups just damage the chances of acceptance for Bitcoin amongst the general public.

This I agree with. I get the impression exchanges are being started by enthusiasts with no experience in finance or banking and likely no business experience whatever.


Your impression is correct.
TimJBenham
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April 18, 2013, 07:52:42 AM
 #267

You need to start dealing locally.

One of the positive externalities of exchanges is a price. Without a generally accepted price dealing locally is more difficult to negotiate.

You are a warlord in the outskirts of the known world struggling to establish a kingdom in the wild lands.
Aianis
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April 18, 2013, 08:39:58 AM
 #268

I believe, everyone is watching this - http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18&sid=2f0246177645f7231d00920b35baa876

600watt
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April 18, 2013, 08:43:37 AM
 #269

here is an update from btc24-help.com

it is in german.
he is basically blaming the german authorities for the mess. he is not walking away, has no interest in all this money. he is getting scared by death threats. he will sue people that threaten his life.

Commerzbank / Statement
by TAiS46 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:25 am

Wir sind bereits einen kleinen Schritt weiter.
Das Größte Problem ist, das egal was ich veröffentliche, als "fake" dargetsellt wird.

Das, was ein sehr ernstes Thema ist, ist auf der anderen Seite irgendwie lächerlich!


Wieso war ein Konto bei der Commerzbank nötig?
Der Zahlungsanbieter Giropay, welchen ich zu Bitcoin-24 hinzu gefügt habe, weil es Probleme mit
Sofortüberweisung gab, forderte ein Deutsches Konto. Somit eröffnete ich ein Konto bei der Commerzbank.
Meine Beraterin bei der Kommerzbank wurde ausführlich darüber informiert, was ich vor habe
und wie viel Umsatz das Project erwirtschaften wird.
Somit was das Konto der Commerzbank, für das Anbieten von Giropay nötig.

Weswegen wurde das Konto in Polen gesperrt?
Das Konto in Polen wurde gesperrt, da die Kriminalpolizei in Bremen um Amtshilfe gebeten hat.
Es liegt, von den Polnischen behörden, nichts gegen mich in der hand, warum auch?
Die Polen haben einfach nur die Wörter "Geldwäsche und Terrorismusfinanzierung" gehört und haben mein Konto gesperrt.
Gegen die Sperrung wurde am 16.04. Einspruch eingelegt.

Was / wer steckt wirklich hinter dem ganzen und was sind die Gründe?
Der Grund ist ernst, genau so wie lächerlich! Es ist im prinzip so lächerlich, das es ggf.
die meisten für einen Scherz halten werden:
Die Commerzbank in Bremen hat der Kriminalpolizi in Bremen gemeldet, das ich des öfteren
über Bargeld verfüge. Die verfügung über Bargeld ist mein gutes Recht und ich denke Ihr wisst, das die jenigen,
die Bitcoin unterstüzten den Banken nicht wirklich trauen.
Die Bargeld verfügungen haben NICHTS mit den Einlagen der Kunden zu tun. Dies versichere ich!
Entweder es war der Gewinn durch die "Same-Day" Überweisungen, durch die Parcels oder durch die Spenden,
was abgehoben wurde.
Nun war es so, das auf das Konto der Commerzbank nur Zahlungen von Giropay eingelaufen sind.
Giropay Gelder wären als Geschäftlich gehandelt, ich habe mir dennoch den Gewinn von dem
Commerzbank Konto auszahlen lassen. Dies ist wie gesagt nicht verboten und mein gutes Recht.
Die Commerzbank wirft mir nun folgendes vor:
[...]Die von den Kunden zum Kauf bzw. Handel mit Bitcoins via "Giropay" auf sein Konto bei der Commerzbank Bremen überwiesenen und dort auch eingegangenen Geldbeträge beabsichtigt er bar zu verfügung und für eigene Zwecke zu verwenden.[...]

Dies stimmt jedoch in keinster Weise, denn auf der Commerzbank liegt AUCH ein großteil der Kundeneinlagen.
Die Commerzbank hat nun diese "Vorgehensweise" der Kriminalpolizei Bremen gemeldet, welche das Commerzbank Konto
gepfändet haben. Dies mit einem großteil der Kundeneinladen.

Wie sieht die aktuelle Situation aus?
Wie gesagt, gegen die Sperrung bei der Polnischen Bank wurde einspruch erhoben, das es kein Grund gab.
Gegen die Commerzbank wird ein Strafverfahren eröffnet, da durch die Commerzbank ein sehr großer Schaden entstanden ist.
1. Die Blockierung des Kontos in Polen 2. Die Blockierung des Kontos in Deutschland 3. die Handlungsunfähigkeit meinerseits, also Geschäftsführer der BTC24 Limited.


Leute, was denkt ich von mir? Das ich auf einer Insel bin, einen dicken Wagen fahre und mir ein schönes leben mache?
NEIN! Mein Leben ist genau so wie davor und ich werde sicherlich NICHTS mit den Einlagen der Kunden machen!
Klar, non-profit und so weiter! Aber die Same-Day Überweisungen, welche alleine schon ca. 20 Stück am Tag waren,
welche eine Gebühr von 1% Kosten, bringen mir genug Gewinn von der Plattform!

Ich wollte etwas schaffen, wo Leute mit Bitcoins handeln können. Dies habe ich geschafft. Dies wird mir jedoch kaputt gemacht,
dadurch das mir Konten gesperrt werden!
So leid es mir jedem tut, aber ich kann im Grunde genommen wirklich nichts dafür! Ich habe mit
zwei verschiedenen Konten gearbeitet, wo beide Banken wussten, was ich mache und welcher Umsatz
auf den Konten zu verzeichnen sein wird.
Trotz der ganzen Sachen wie "Wo ist Simon Hausdorf" werde ich mich nicht verkriechen und werde offen dazu stehen,
was passiert ist und was weiter passiert. Die Bedingung ist jedoch, das die Benutzer / Ihr mir glaubt.

Mal im ernst! Wenn ich euch (die Benutzer) verarscht hätte, warum schreibe ich dann hier und
bin nicht schon längst mit den 5 Millionen abgehauen? Ok, vielleicht weil ich nicht an das Geld ran komme,
aber das hätte ich doch schon viel früher machen können? Leute, das Geld juckt mich 0! Es steht
wirklich etwas anderes im Vordergrund.

Die Beamten interessiert nicht mal, das ich denen sage, das ich durch die Sperrung nun Handlungsunfähig bin,
und mit Sicherheit einige Klagen / Anzeigen auf die Firma zu kommen werden.
Klagen / Anzeigen heisst auch mehr Probleme für die Polizei / Staatsanwaltschaft.

Es wird einfach nicht verstanden, wie es möglich ist, in so kurzer Zeit, solch einen Hohen Umsatz zu generieren.
Das Geld liegt und lag schon immer auf den Konten und wurde NIE angefasst! Alle Zahlungen sind nachvollziehbar
und es gab keinerleit Probleme, jemals Auszahlungen zu bearbeiten, außer zum schluss hin,
was jedoch die o.g. Gründe hat!

Edit: Kleiner Hinweis, lasst so etwas sein mit den Gruppen bei Facebook.
1. Ist es Heuchelei
2. Verletzung von Copyright einiger Bilder
3. Stehen dort einige Drohungen
4. Gleicht es einer Hetzjadt / sowie Morddrohungen
5. Anzeige gegen Thomas Staegle wurde erstattet
TAiS46
 
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panoss
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April 18, 2013, 08:47:14 AM
 #270

https://bitcoin-24.com/

They don't even bother to translate it
Amateur time at its best
Google translation came up as this:
The reasons for the closing of our accounts with major international banks are now known to us and legally more than questionable. Our lawyers go before the full consequences to this behavior. We assume that we are ready again fully operational and all transactions can drive with even greater commitment on behalf of all users. The concerns of the major banks are us an additional incentive there! We will inform you promptly of further development.
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April 18, 2013, 08:51:16 AM
 #271


Why does he post info in different channels (he used to post on Reddit)? Is it to confuse us?

He may say that he is not interested in the money, but until his word is backed up by someone else or we see som actions I remain very suspicious of him.

Edit:There seems to be a link to an official document on www.bitcoin24.com.

I couldn't understand the document, but, my suspicion of him just fell a little.
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April 18, 2013, 08:59:07 AM
 #272

Things will go very very bad for Simon very quickly if he does not refund the btc and communite about refunding the rest of our money. Unlike pirate he is also sitting on a large amount of Fiat, so not too long before Police and authorities are going to be involved.
What the hell are you talking about? Police and authorities are already involved. Pirate was also sitting on a large amount of fiat. You just didn't know about it.
bitbadger
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April 18, 2013, 09:00:35 AM
 #273


Why does he post info in different channels (he used to post on Reddit)? Is it to confuse us?

He may say that he is not interested in the money, but until his word is backed up by someone else or we see som actions I remain very suspicious of him.

He always posts on different channels. It's like that running game hash house harriers where trail-setters run ahead scattering flour clues all around for the runners to try and find and follow.

But at least it seems that hopefully the http://board.btc24-help.com board will be used as the platform for announcements or future clues.

A club DJ turned foreign exchange/Bitcoin dealer with a buggy trading engine, who plans to invest money on an ice cream parlour in Berlin, with millions of Euros unavailable to the customers in frozen funds,  picture of him on the Twitter or Facebook with him wearing a carnival/party hat.. semi information and clues that may or may not be clues all over the place...

the whole thing would be hilarious if it wasn't so goddamn serious.
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April 18, 2013, 09:07:13 AM
 #274

He always posts on different channels. It's like that running game hash house harriers where trail-setters run ahead scattering flour clues all around for the runners to try and find and follow.

But at least it seems that hopefully the http://board.btc24-help.com board will be used as the platform for announcements or future clues.

A club DJ turned foreign exchange/Bitcoin dealer with a buggy trading engine, who plans to invest money on an ice cream parlour in Berlin, with millions of Euros unavailable to the customers in frozen funds,  picture of him on the Twitter or Facebook with him wearing a carnival/party hat.. semi information and clues that may or may not be clues all over the place...

the whole thing would be hilarious if it wasn't so goddamn serious.

I agree. If things should work out (which I doubt) and money is returned and bitcoin24 v2.0 is launched, I for one wouldn't use it in a looong time.
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April 18, 2013, 09:18:55 AM
 #275

Edit:There seems to be a link to an official document on www.bitcoin24.com.

I couldn't understand the document, but, my suspicion of him just fell a little.

From what I understood the German state attorney ordered the account freezing not because of bitcoin directly  but because they believe that the accounts got money from phishing scams. Apparently they think fiat money from phishing attacks (which they seem to think originated from Simon) landed on those bank accounts. Their only argument written in the document is a significant rise of incoming money in march (March, as in the beginning of the last rally).
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April 18, 2013, 09:23:25 AM
 #276

From what I understood the German state attorney ordered the account freezing not because of bitcoin directly  but because they believe that the accounts got money from phishing scams. Apparently they think fiat money from phishing attacks (which they seem to think originated from Simon) landed on those bank accounts. Their only argument written in the document is a significant rise of incoming money in march (March, as in the beginning of the last rally).

Thanks! Well, if this is the reason for closing the account, at least the increased influx of money during the March rally could easily be explained. The question is whether the German authorities accept this explanation...
darnth
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April 18, 2013, 09:44:41 AM
 #277

here is an update from btc24-help.com

it is in german.
he is basically blaming the german authorities for the mess. he is not walking away, has no interest in all this money. he is getting scared by death threats. he will sue people that threaten his life.

Commerzbank / Statement
by TAiS46 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:25 am

Wir sind bereits einen kleinen Schritt weiter.
......


Is there any english translation yet?
If not I can try to do a quick one sometime this afternoon (if work allows).
[as its a bit of work just want to make sure I didnt overlook an existing one before starting]
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April 18, 2013, 09:46:37 AM
 #278

From what I understood the German state attorney ordered the account freezing not because of bitcoin directly  but because they believe that the accounts got money from phishing scams. Apparently they think fiat money from phishing attacks (which they seem to think originated from Simon) landed on those bank accounts. Their only argument written in the document is a significant rise of incoming money in march (March, as in the beginning of the last rally).

Thanks! Well, if this is the reason for closing the account, at least the increased influx of money during the March rally could easily be explained. The question is whether the German authorities accept this explanation...


here is the document.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2329063/Beschluss%20Scan_geschwaerzt.pdf

german aouthorities.... WE ARE LOST. they are the most uninformed, stubborn, incompetent lifeform on earth. we should sue THEM, not simon. yep, we should all sue the german authorities and banks who created this mess. after we are through with them they´d never touch btc accounts again.
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April 18, 2013, 09:55:29 AM
 #279

ALL the action seems to be taking place at:

http://board.btc24-help.com

There is also an English subforum.

No answer there why BTC is still being held hostage.
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April 18, 2013, 12:31:17 PM
 #280

the more i read all this, the more my money seems lost.
They will try to take all the euro they can to recover from their inability to put some strong security on there banking website...

Only lawyers might be able to get some money to pay themself out of this.

The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions

Satoshi Nakamoto : https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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