Bitcoin Forum
February 25, 2018, 10:10:16 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 [All]
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin-24.com matching engine seems broken, site down.  (Read 63941 times)
Villem Anton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 29
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 11:46:24 AM
 #1

Hello,

Bitcoin-24 just went down after reports in the local chat of problems with the exchange engine. Reports of duplications of trades appearing, as well as trades where returns go missing completely. Someone posted this screen http://imgur.com/Sbe6OlG.

One can speculate that the site will be down and try to roll-back trades, if possible. It is not clear if bitcoins were withdrawn. Chat reports of hotwallet being empty suggest withdraws did not execute. If this was due to quick earlier withdraw of corrupted funds or unrelated is not clear.
1519596616
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1519596616

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1519596616
Reply with quote  #2

1519596616
Report to moderator
Even if you use Bitcoin through Tor, the way transactions are handled by the network makes anonymity difficult to achieve. Do not expect your transactions to be anonymous unless you really know what you're doing.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1519596616
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1519596616

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1519596616
Reply with quote  #2

1519596616
Report to moderator
1519596616
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1519596616

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1519596616
Reply with quote  #2

1519596616
Report to moderator
mrvision
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 326
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 12:32:52 PM
 #2

I am a victim...

Hope they make a way to have access to funds. I really like the engine, but i think we should go with decentralized solutions for the exchange problem.

In the last minute i sold everything and cancel all orders...

Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 12:45:24 PM
 #3

Any news when this will be fixed. Where can I get more information. Their twitter account does not say anything.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
Darkcrow
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 37
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 12:47:08 PM
 #4

Strange my Mobil Phone App is still working.
Seems like the Api is still online.
greyhawk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 12:50:21 PM
 #5

Strange my Handy App is still working.
Seems like the Api is still online.

Protip: Don't use the word "handy"  Wink No one outside of Germany understands that. It's a German-Denglish-Invention. The rest of the world says (smart) phone, cell or mobile.
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2013, 12:53:13 PM
 #6

Strange my Handy App is still working.
Seems like the Api is still online.

There is a mobile app? Where did you get it from?
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2013, 12:59:46 PM
 #7

Strange my Handy App is still working.
Seems like the Api is still online.

There is a mobile app? Where did you get it from?

Ok, I saw an unofficial one in the market. Seems crazy to uninstall an unoffical app though :/
#
BTCBUDDY1
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 01:00:08 PM
 #8

Strange my Handy App is still working.
Seems like the Api is still online.
ha ha hah

handy

you like to wank your app!

I'm back.
Beutelschneider
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 01:53:52 PM
 #9

I would HIGHLY appreciate a statement of Simon whats happened and what he's gonna to solve the probs since i have a few k€ in i can't access or withdraw and i'm really nervous about the lack of information!

My personal deadline for this is 6.30pm CET, after this i'm gonna file a charge of fraudulent conversion / computer fraud direct to the district attorneys office, including:

- taking him into custody 'cause of danger of suppression of evidence and/or danger of absconding since he has his pockets full of(our!!) money.
- freezing all bankaccounts he has access to
- seizure order of ALL his IT-equipment

This means we won't get our money back fast, but he can't get easy away with it, too! And spending a weekend in custody doesn't sound funny to me!


Und nochmal in deutsch:

Ich erwarte ein Statement bis 18.30 was passiert ist, wie das Problem gefixt wird, wann wieder Zugang zu unseren Account besteht! Ansonsten geht um 18.35 ein Fax an die zuständige Staatsanwaltschaft Bremen, Abteilung 3, raus.

- Anzeige wegen gewerbsmässiger(!!!) Unterschlagung/Untreue/Computerbetrug sowie aller anderen in Frage kommenden Straftatbestände!
- Beantragung eines SOFORT vollstreckbaren Haftbefehls wegen Flucht- und Verdunkelungsgefahr, Geld genug hat er ja zur Verfügung!
- Sperrung aller bekannten Kontoverbindungen
- Beschlagnahme des gesamten IT-Equipments

Ich hab gehört, ein Wochenende in U-Haft ist nicht so dolle....
bootlace
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:00:50 PM
 #10

I would HIGHLY appreciate a statement of Simon whats happened and what he's gonna to solve the probs since i have a few k€ in i can't access or withdraw and i'm really nervous about the lack of information!

My personal deadline for this is 6.30pm CET, after this i'm gonna file a charge of fraudulent conversion / computer fraud direct to the district attorneys office, including:

- taking him into custody 'cause of danger of suppression of evidence and/or danger of absconding since he has his pockets full of(our!!) money.
- freezing all bankaccounts he has access to
- seizure order of ALL his IT-equipment

This means we won't get our money back fast, but he can't get easy away with it, too! And spending a weekend in custody doesn't sound funny to me!


Und nochmal in deutsch:

Ich erwarte ein Statement bis 18.30 was passiert ist, wie das Problem gefixt wird, wann wieder Zugang zu unseren Account besteht! Ansonsten geht um 18.35 ein Fax an die zuständige Staatsanwaltschaft Bremen, Abteilung 3, raus.

- Anzeige wegen gewerbsmässiger(!!!) Unterschlagung/Untreue/Computerbetrug sowie aller anderen in Frage kommenden Straftatbestände!
- Beantragung eines SOFORT vollstreckbaren Haftbefehls wegen Flucht- und Verdunkelungsgefahr, Geld genug hat er ja zur Verfügung!
- Sperrung aller bekannten Kontoverbindungen
- Beschlagnahme des gesamten IT-Equipments

Ich hab gehört, ein Wochenende in U-Haft ist nicht so dolle....


Dude, don't do that, it's only gonna make matters worse and delay the time it takes for everyone to get access back.

145ZvkNef1TNPdDcGVperop1v574VSdZ9X
greyhawk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:01:59 PM
 #11

Dude, don't do that, it's only gonna make matters worse and delay the time it takes for everyone to get access back.

Yeah, dude, please be nice to the scammers, otherwise they might run away with the money.
BTCBUDDY1
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:02:34 PM
 #12

Strange my Handy App is still working.
Seems like the Api is still online.
ha ha hah

handy

you like to wank your app!


god fucking dammmit. This is not me. I have been hacked, any activity that has been logged in the past 8 hoursis a hacker. they asked multiple members for 10+ btc loans because funds were "tied up" in gox. I never have or will use gox.

I'm back.
danicellero
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 43
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:03:46 PM
 #13

When wil we know more about this? I had euros and BTC in there...
bootlace
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:13:50 PM
 #14

Dude, don't do that, it's only gonna make matters worse and delay the time it takes for everyone to get access back.

Yeah, dude, please be nice to the scammers, otherwise they might run away with the money.

You have any proof he is a scammer? I'm also concerned as I have money and transfers heading there..

145ZvkNef1TNPdDcGVperop1v574VSdZ9X
Beutelschneider
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:14:37 PM
 #15

Dude, don't do that, it's only gonna make matters worse and delay the time it takes for everyone to get access back.

What is better, few days or weeks delay in getting your funds back or never get them back, huh? Will you compensate me for the loss? If yes, i might change my mind!

About 2.5hrs from now to write a few lines WHY he is offline, WHAT he is doing to fix it, WHEN we will be able to withdraw our money/BTC should be long enough so we all see he is caring about it. And if he ran away with our deposits, he better pray police finds him faster than the guys i'm gonna hire!

Not to mention i'm VERY pissed after Gox fucked it all up, i'm gonna loose some more money to a >probably< scammer! 
mrvision
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 326
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:19:39 PM
 #16

Two hours ago i managed myself to get into my account thanks a cached version. I cancelled all my orders @~43€/bitcoin and sold all my bitcoins @80€ in order to stay in €....

After that, and chatting a little with the people still connected, i got kicked from the site.

Now i have managed another way to enter into my account, and i see again my bitcoins... so it seems to me that the guy is doing the roll-back thing.

Hot wallet is not sending bitcoins... so i have risen my optimistic view from 2% to 34%... at least he seems to be doing something.

bootlace
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:35:09 PM
 #17

Two hours ago i managed myself to get into my account thanks a cached version. I cancelled all my orders @~43€/bitcoin and sold all my bitcoins @80€ in order to stay in €....

After that, and chatting a little with the people still connected, i got kicked from the site.

Now i have managed another way to enter into my account, and i see again my bitcoins... so it seems to me that the guy is doing the roll-back thing.

Hot wallet is not sending bitcoins... so i have risen my optimistic view from 2% to 34%... at least he seems to be doing something.

How far you think he's going to roll back? What about the people who had extra coins and cashed out already?

145ZvkNef1TNPdDcGVperop1v574VSdZ9X
TomRado
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:42:34 PM
 #18

Two hours ago i managed myself to get into my account thanks a cached version. I cancelled all my orders @~43€/bitcoin and sold all my bitcoins @80€ in order to stay in €....

After that, and chatting a little with the people still connected, i got kicked from the site.

Now i have managed another way to enter into my account, and i see again my bitcoins... so it seems to me that the guy is doing the roll-back thing.

Hot wallet is not sending bitcoins... so i have risen my optimistic view from 2% to 34%... at least he seems to be doing something.

How far you think he's going to roll back? What about the people who had extra coins and cashed out already?

Seem like the hot wallet was empty and there are still around 15K coins on the cold wallets:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1GcWYgqbdtzZAGsX2iSVBS74cPBiQjCiRg
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26

so maybe it's not so bad as it seems. The fiat should be on the bank still.

18FoHvM5nfkTyiEC9ScxieMNedh7wwgrG2
mrvision
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 326
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:55:01 PM
 #19

Two hours ago i managed myself to get into my account thanks a cached version. I cancelled all my orders @~43€/bitcoin and sold all my bitcoins @80€ in order to stay in €....

After that, and chatting a little with the people still connected, i got kicked from the site.

Now i have managed another way to enter into my account, and i see again my bitcoins... so it seems to me that the guy is doing the roll-back thing.

Hot wallet is not sending bitcoins... so i have risen my optimistic view from 2% to 34%... at least he seems to be doing something.

How far you think he's going to roll back? What about the people who had extra coins and cashed out already?

He had -at least- 2 wallets in order to prevent attackers to cash out all his bitcoins. When you try to cash out from the system he asks you for a code, so you have to go to your email and confirm you are using your account. Step two the system enqueues the transaction to be processed, and then when the hot wallet is filled, the system sends the transaction.

I suppose that yes, some people would have been able to cash out some funds. But not so many as you might think, as the hot wallet was empty and now stopped.

We'll see...

mrvision
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 326
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 02:57:46 PM
 #20

he should rollback orders untill the balance matches with what he's got. And honestly, the site might lose some reputation but i'd preffer if the loses are splitted between everybody.

If he closes the site and attends reclamations, the process can last forever and the price of bitcoin might be compromised, also it might appear on the news.

TomRado
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 03:07:14 PM
 #21

If people try to press charges the cost for lawyers, court etc. will directly come off our money. No way we will win anything that way.

My honest opinion seeing companies going bankrupt and then somehow nothing is left for the investors while the lawyers are pouring champagne on the floor.

18FoHvM5nfkTyiEC9ScxieMNedh7wwgrG2
trippp
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 47
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 03:14:23 PM
 #22

Damn it! I hope this problem can be solved quickly. I have quite a few BTC and EUR in there.
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 03:57:09 PM
 #23

Bump

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
knarfske
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 13
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 04:05:06 PM
 #24

still no news?
Beutelschneider
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 04:17:15 PM
 #25

Seems like the next big pile of shit is gonna hit the fan in 20 minutes



Edited names, domains and sums, but be sure they are on the original. Might edit few words tho. And there are attorneys and judges on stand-by duty this weekend...

And btw, if someone will give Simon a call, look up his number at www.hotfrog.de/Firmen/Simon-Hausdorf-Webdesign
Turok
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 38
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 04:20:33 PM
 #26

i am confused. There is no evidence he stoled the money or got hacked, so why that huge panic?
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 04:27:43 PM
 #27

Seems like the next big pile of shit is gonna hit the fan in 20 minutes



Edited names, domains and sums, but be sure they are on the original. Might edit few words tho. And there are attorneys and judges on stand-by duty this weekend...

And btw, if someone will give Simon a call, look up his number at www.hotfrog.de/Firmen/Simon-Hausdorf-Webdesign

What exactly is this. Cannot read German. Can you please give some more info.

Note that we can still access the site using this method (but no withdrawls, waiting for the email code but not received).

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c77qg/bitcoin24_down_after_a_corrupt_trade_engine_gives/c9dtqe5

Please hold off on taking a drastic step until a couple more hours. Lets see if this shit sorts itself out before we fling it on the fan.


Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
Beutelschneider
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 04:30:26 PM
 #28

i am confused. There is no evidence he stoled the money or got hacked, so why that huge panic?

At the first sight, even Bernie Madoff looked inspirig confident...so your argument is more than invalid!

Oh, and i think meanwhile most of you found out that his publich phone number isn't active anymore  Tongue

EDIT:

Referring to Amitabhs previous post i'm gonna delay my step for a few hours. Amitabh: This paper will be send to the district attorneys office (german "Staatsanwaltschaft") and includes all what i said few hrs ago:

- filing a charge of fraudulent conversion / computer fraud, including:
- taking him into custody 'cause of danger of suppression of evidence(manipulating the database or deleting it) and/or danger of absconding since he has his pockets full of(our!!) money.
- freezing all bankaccounts he has access to
- seizure order of ALL his IT-equipment so authorities can examine it
- sequestration of cars or other valuable stuff to cover the losses...he might drive around in a ferrari, who knows?!
BitAurum
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 318
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 04:32:47 PM
 #29

Seems like the next big pile of shit is gonna hit the fan in 20 minutes



Edited names, domains and sums, but be sure they are on the original. Might edit few words tho. And there are attorneys and judges on stand-by duty this weekend...

And btw, if someone will give Simon a call, look up his number at www.hotfrog.de/Firmen/Simon-Hausdorf-Webdesign

What exactly is this. Cannot read German. Can you please give some more info.

Note that we can still access the site using this method (but no withdrawls, waiting for the email code but not received).

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c77qg/bitcoin24_down_after_a_corrupt_trade_engine_gives/c9dtqe5

Please hold off on taking a drastic step until a couple more hours. Lets see if this shit sorts itself out before we fling it on the fan.



This is a request to arrest the owner using police force because the accusing person is fearing he has been defrauded.
Fear and Greed, Greed and Fear.
Booooooo
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 118
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 04:44:51 PM
 #30

......

Note that we can still access the site using this method (but no withdrawls, waiting for the email code but not received).

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c77qg/bitcoin24_down_after_a_corrupt_trade_engine_gives/c9dtqe5

Please hold off on taking a drastic step until a couple more hours. Lets see if this shit sorts itself out before we fling it on the fan.



what happens if you log in? your balance is empty? (I am afraid to look  Sad )

aleistermarley
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 32
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 04:45:40 PM
 #31

Seems like the next big pile of shit is gonna hit the fan in 20 minutes...
Coppers will only laugh at you if you bring this shit up with no fraud evidence at all.

LTC: LVPrfze7i4T3GYnoXCBVoeYbaG4MUy5vKC
GRC: FtmMPaYpaA1LAm1RxsXNWRu54n2wnMamYR
BTC: 17XxsFQAXsG8DhqV7DFtJ3DyfDpRuxmiYv
Turok
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 38
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 04:56:12 PM
 #32

Seems like the next big pile of shit is gonna hit the fan in 20 minutes...
Coppers will only laugh at you if you bring this shit up with no fraud evidence at all.

exactly! it's just a piece of paper, nothing more
keatonatron
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 250


Jack of oh so many trades.


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:04:48 PM
 #33

The site has been down for less than a day and you are already considering police action against the owner?

That's really really scary. If this type of thing starts to come up a lot, you can say goodbye to anyone personally trying to provide a service to the bitcoin community ever again.

1KEATSvAhbB7yj2baLB5xkyJSnkfqPGAqk
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2013, 05:12:09 PM
 #34

Quote
Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed our Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished.

It's a web service. Shit happens. I think your best chance to ever see your balances/coins is if Simon remains a free man and can work on restorting it all. He obviously hasnt processed ANY withdrawals of any currency or bitcoin, so if he can work on it chances are in 24 hours the site will be back to normal.

PS.- I have 1k euro tied up there so I am not just saying that.
Turok
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 38
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:17:26 PM
 #35

well at least some news so we know what is going on
EdsWow1
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10



View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:18:43 PM
 #36

The site has been down for less than a day and you are already considering police action against the owner?

That's really really scary. If this type of thing starts to come up a lot, you can say goodbye to anyone personally trying to provide a service to the bitcoin community ever again.

yes, i thought the same.

my god .... this started maybe as a hobby .... and when the site is some hours off, people already are calling police ... what next ??

give this man a chance to sort this out !!

Donations (btc): 1GPKvRoY8HopqGgTLAFfJxhtTRYp89Yauj ♥♥♥ THX - Muchas Gracias - Dankeschön - Merci - Спасибо! - धन्यवाद! - شكرا - 谢谢 ♥♥♥
EdsWow1
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10



View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:19:55 PM
 #37

fresh from their website:

https://bitcoin-24.com/

Quote
Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed your Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished.


Donations (btc): 1GPKvRoY8HopqGgTLAFfJxhtTRYp89Yauj ♥♥♥ THX - Muchas Gracias - Dankeschön - Merci - Спасибо! - धन्यवाद! - شكرا - 谢谢 ♥♥♥
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:20:48 PM
 #38

Hmm very strange. Why did the Polish authority close my account? Also, I don't remember having an account in Poland.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
knarfske
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 13
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:22:30 PM
 #39


Note that we can still access the site using this method (but no withdrawls, waiting for the email code but not received).

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c77qg/bitcoin24_down_after_a_corrupt_trade_engine_gives/c9dtqe5

Please hold off on taking a drastic step until a couple more hours. Lets see if this shit sorts itself out before we fling it on the fan.



What was the IP adress to access the site?
philips
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 500



View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:24:13 PM
 #40

Hmm very strange. Why did the Polish authority close my account? Also, I don't remember having an account in Poland.

 Grin Grin Grin
EdsWow1
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10



View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:49:19 PM
 #41

Hmm very strange. Why did the Polish authority close my account? Also, I don't remember having an account in Poland.

 Grin

( i guess he copied & paste some mail he got from some partner in poland )

Donations (btc): 1GPKvRoY8HopqGgTLAFfJxhtTRYp89Yauj ♥♥♥ THX - Muchas Gracias - Dankeschön - Merci - Спасибо! - धन्यवाद! - شكرا - 谢谢 ♥♥♥
smtp
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:55:04 PM
 #42

Hmm very strange. Why did the Polish authority close my account? Also, I don't remember having an account in Poland.

 Grin Grin Grin
Man :-/ ...

0) I will not tell you why this message/informations did appear on his web-site NOW in spite I have a very good guess ....

1) I know Simon, he is no native english speaker/writer (like me) and probably he types these sentences in a hurry, at least in high time-pressure.

Quote
3. The Polish authority closed your Bank account in Poland.
2) Ever heard of typos? For me, the y in the word "your" is one and then the sentence (with my background infos and deleting this "y") makes perfect sense!

A friendly pointer to these nervous guys: calm down, this would be better for everybody. Smiley
smtp
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:55:57 PM
 #43

Referring to Amitabhs previous post i'm gonna delay my step for a few hours. Amitabh: This paper will be send to the district attorneys office (german "Staatsanwaltschaft") and includes all what i said few hrs ago:

- filing a charge of fraudulent conversion / computer fraud, including:
- taking him into custody 'cause of danger of suppression of evidence(manipulating the database or deleting it) and/or danger of absconding since he has his pockets full of(our!!) money.
- freezing all bankaccounts he has access to
- seizure order of ALL his IT-equipment so authorities can examine it
- sequestration of cars or other valuable stuff to cover the losses...he might drive around in a ferrari, who knows?!

Beutelschneider, I think this really would not help the situation right now. If he was to be in police custody then he can't work on solving the problem. Patience is necessary at this stage.

If there was any technical problem, then it was sensible to take the server offline for the moment. That is in the best interests of everyone trading on the exchange.

Please be patient and give the exchange and the person running it a chance to solve the problem first.

I hope all works out well.





tempt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 289
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 05:57:59 PM
 #44

Simon knew about this bug since at least 11 days, since then there is a youtube video telling about it. Also several user messaged him that problem. He didnt solve it, in fact, it got worse. Me and a friend got a high 5 figure sum locked in withdrawal right now. I think the actions Beutelschneider takes are good and just take care of our funds.

                ▄▄███████▄▄
              ▄█████████████▄
              ▀███▀▀   ▀▀█████▄
     ▄▄███████▄▄          ▀████▄
   ▄█████████████▄         █████
 ▄█████▀▀   ▀▀████         █████
▄████▀                    ▄████▀
█████         ▄███▄▄   ▄▄█████▀
█████         ▀█████████████▀
▀████▄          ▀▀███████▀▀
 ▀█████▄▄   ▄▄███▄
   ▀█████████████▀
     ▀▀███████▀▀
CAPDAX
.
   ██ ██
██████████▄
  ███   ▀███
  ███   ▄██▀
  ████████▄
  ███   ▀███
  ███   ▄███
██████████▀
   ██ ██
    ▄█▄
   ▄███▄
  ▄█████▄
 ▄███████▄
▀█████████▀
▄▄ ▀███▀ ▄▄
 ▀█▄▄ ▄▄█▀
   ▀███▀
     ▀
     ███
    ▐██▌
    ███ ▄
   ▐████▀
  ▄███▀
▄████
▀ ██▌
 ▐██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 ██████████▌
    █████████████▄
   ▐███████████████
               ████
 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄      ▐███▌
▄██████       ████
▀▀▀▀▀▀       ▐███▌
             ████
 ███████████████
▐█████████████▀
          ▄███▄
         ███████
  ▄▄▄    ███████
▄█████▄  ▄████▀
████████████▌
▀█████▀  ▀████▄
  ▀▀▀    ███████
         ███████
          ▀███▀
.
etc.
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
.
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2013, 05:58:39 PM
 #45

I'm feeling more confident about this now. I was thinking for a while what he could mean by declarations and then realised he means his database transactions.

I am pretty sure before he pays out ALL bitcoins with a cronjob, he checks that the balances match up and it makes sense. If not, the site probably goes down automatically and notifies him. So its just a matter of time when his database back up will rectify to the latest consistent state and meanwhile he is probably fixing the bug that caused all this.

Fingers crossed!
ianspain
Donator
Full Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 164
Merit: 100



View Profile
April 12, 2013, 06:00:07 PM
 #46

got a couple of grand in withdrawals, I hope he publishes a statement and sorts it out

BlockChain Capital
Ruzihm
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 5
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 06:09:41 PM
 #47

Hmm very strange. Why did the Polish authority close my account? Also, I don't remember having an account in Poland.

Funny, but it surely was a typo, and they meant "our" instead of "your".
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2013, 06:25:50 PM
 #48

Thanks for all that Smiley
wilfried
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 288
Merit: 250


ManualMiner


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 06:35:27 PM
 #49

Seems like the next big pile of shit is gonna hit the fan in 20 minutes



Edited names, domains and sums, but be sure they are on the original. Might edit few words tho. And there are attorneys and judges on stand-by duty this weekend...

And btw, if someone will give Simon a call, look up his number at www.hotfrog.de/Firmen/Simon-Hausdorf-Webdesign

you are an a*****e
Beutelschneider
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 06:40:56 PM
 #50

The site has been down for less than a day and you are already considering police action against the owner?

That's really really scary. If this type of thing starts to come up a lot, you can say goodbye to anyone personally trying to provide a service to the bitcoin community ever again.

Yes i'm certainly considering action against him, due to the lack of information at all! Sometimes you need to announce drastic steps to get a reaction. Even ShitGox gave a statement what went wrong. And get the facts together:

- Running a Ltd. when there is a similar form of business in germany, too. Its called "Unternehmergesellschaft, haftungsbeschränkt" you can start with €100 for example.
- Lot of people pissed and spamming the chat 'cause they are waiting for few weeks to get their money out of BTC24 or account funded with sent money.
- According to few pics i found, looked like he runs several (at least 5 or 6, maybe more) 5GH/s Bitforce miners. All of you are able to calculate...
- Huge crash that has happened, panic everywhere
- Never seen him in chat or must have missed him. Normally i'd show up and answer questions, talk to my clients few times a day for 10 minutes or so. Let them feel you are there even if not visible!
- People waiting one or two weeks to get their mails answered. If i can't cope with that workload, i have to hire people for that!
- Phone number i've found isn't active
- Lots of moniez that could be sent to the caymans on a keystroke and spent for coke and whores  Tongue
- A lot more reasons i'm too lazy to tell..

And now ask yourself, how would you pull a really profitable scam?

1 - Build up trust, process all orders correct
2 - Grow, receive more trust (and more money/BTC) to work with, still process all correct
3 - Repeat step 2
4 - See the price rise, sell your mined BTC on other xchanges, make profit
5 - Make profit from the spread when ppl trade on your platform like every FOREX dealer does
6 - Upgrade and improve your service with the profit you made so clients think you're caring and resposible, think before you act!
7 - If you're a good guy, go back to step 2  Wink

now we have 2 ways:
- Decide to work with coins you got from your clients. Buy cheap and sell high or sell BTC when high and buy cheap back. If you have losses, cover them with the miners you're running
- As reaction to the crash, sell BTC(regardless of whether your customers or your own) on various xchanges, making a million € or two...and run

I think most of you never ran their own business, dealing with all sorts of idiots out there, ppl not willing to pay their invoices and so on. Sometimes you have to draw a line!

And according to the "greed&fear - fear&greed" comment, i'm mining for about 2yrs on BTCguild and i really love how its run! And at some point, i want some of my investment back even if i don't need to pay for power!

As there is a statement now, nothing will follow at this point. I hope i won't be disappointed in th near future!


xylop
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 06:51:23 PM
 #51

So the trading engine froze at the same time as authorities froze his bank account? hmmm...
Puppet
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 06:55:19 PM
 #52

So the trading engine froze at the same time as authorities froze his bank account? hmmm...


Yeah, sounds fishy to me too. No mention of the bug either though I clearly witnessed it and I had a few 1000 euro extra balance that I shouldnt have had. Which means someone else or btc-24 is missing that. Last time I checked they werent a central bank.
Beutelschneider
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 07:05:52 PM
 #53

And btw, if someone will give Simon a call, look up his number at www.hotfrog.de/Firmen/Simon-Hausdorf-Webdesign

you are an a*****e
[/quote]

Be sure i checked that number before, i don't wanna have hundreds of ppl calling him, keeping him away from work if he tries to fix the engine  Wink .

And yeah, sometimes you have to be an asshole. You have to say "NO STEP FURTHER" sometimes and defend your point of view in the first, even if it might piss off people. But you always have to be open for other arguments, discuss them, think your position over, move a bit when the opposite moves, too. In the end you have a solution were all keep up appearances.

Since i have a few thousand € in there, i can be your worst nightmare if you don't treat me well!  

EDIT:

There are several video-broadcasting sites like justin.tv or livestream.com. If simon would broadcast an explanation it would restore a lot of faith! No matter if he's not that good with english, many german ppl would understand and give him credit if it makes sense what he says!

EDIT2:

I get back to the PMs ASAP, need some food now Cheesy
  
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 07:08:22 PM
 #54

This isn't the first time Bitcoin-24 has gone down.  All the exchanges seem to also have problems recently, even (especially) Mt Gox.

So far I can't see that there's any evidence that anything fraudulent is going on from the side of Bitcoin-24.  Far as I can see the person running the exchange is not a crook.

The only reason they would take the server offline temporarily is if there are technical issues. Which apparently there are.

So we can only wait until these problems are solved. There's nothing Staatsanwaltschaft or police or anyone else can do to help at this point, the person running the exchange has to deal with it.

The fact is all these Bitcoin exchanges are badly operated right now, there are technical problems all over the place.  Poor communication not least is one of the problems. The whole set up is not very professional.

By the way, I also have Euro and Bitcoins deposited with Bitcoin-24.
Apocalyptic
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 47
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 07:10:13 PM
 #55

So the trading engine froze at the same time as authorities froze his bank account? hmmm...


Yeah, sounds fishy to me too. No mention of the bug either though I clearly witnessed it and I had a few 1000 euro extra balance that I shouldnt have had. Which means someone else or btc-24 is missing that. Last time I checked they werent a central bank.

I also find it pretty fishy. There is something he's not telling us...
phantastisch
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2030
Merit: 1116



View Profile
April 12, 2013, 07:11:56 PM
 #56

Quote

you are an a*****e

Be sure i checked that number before, i don't wanna have hundreds of ppl calling him, keeping him away from work if he tries to fix the engine  Wink .

And yeah, sometimes you have to be an asshole. You have to say "NO STEP FURTHER" sometimes and defend your point of view in the first, even if it might piss off people. But you always have to be open for other arguments, discuss them, think your position over, move a bit when the opposite moves, too. In the end you have a solution were all keep up appearances.

Since i have a few thousand € in there, i can be your worst nightmare if you don't treat me well!  

  

I am still undecided what the shutdown means, but you sir should have lost this money in the recent crash.

Plagiarize, let no one elses work evade your eyes.
Remember why the good lord made your eyes, so don't shade your eyes but plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize. Only be sure always to call it please 'Alternative Coin'.
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 07:12:20 PM
 #57

Trading engine crashing is understandable. But why were the bank accounts frozen. More details needed.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
hplus
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 121
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 07:12:51 PM
 #58

So the trading engine froze at the same time as authorities froze his bank account? hmmm...


i don't think so because he changed the bank account in his website (from the polish account to his personal account) 2-3 days ago.
While the website went down at around 12:00 GMT today
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
 #59

So the trading engine froze at the same time as authorities froze his bank account? hmmm...


Yeah, sounds fishy to me too. No mention of the bug either though I clearly witnessed it and I had a few 1000 euro extra balance that I shouldnt have had. Which means someone else or btc-24 is missing that. Last time I checked they werent a central bank.

I also find it pretty fishy. There is something he's not telling us...

maybe I shouldnt think out loud... but the statement on the website about the lawyers and the bank account makes me wonder...

bitcoin price crash.. the Polish bank account gets shut. Now using account (private? in own name, not business name?  in Germany...  Shock publicity about the crash leading to action by the banks to forbid transfers to/from bitcoin operators...



xylop
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 07:18:27 PM
 #60

Quote

you are an a*****e

Be sure i checked that number before, i don't wanna have hundreds of ppl calling him, keeping him away from work if he tries to fix the engine  Wink .

And yeah, sometimes you have to be an asshole. You have to say "NO STEP FURTHER" sometimes and defend your point of view in the first, even if it might piss off people. But you always have to be open for other arguments, discuss them, think your position over, move a bit when the opposite moves, too. In the end you have a solution were all keep up appearances.

Since i have a few thousand € in there, i can be your worst nightmare if you don't treat me well!  

  

I am still undecided what the shutdown means, but you sir should have lost this money in the recent crash.

WTF do you mean by that ? Should have lost??? That doesn't mean anything.
tempt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 289
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 07:18:37 PM
 #61

Simon Hausdorfs Bitcoin Wallets:

Cold Storage:

1GcWYgqbdtzZAGsX2iSVBS74cPBiQjCiRg > https://blockchain.info/address/1GcWYgqbdtzZAGsX2iSVBS74cPBiQjCiRg
Balance: 8,848.39013303

Semi Hot Wallet (maybe Cold storage):
1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26 > https://blockchain.info/address/1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26
Balance: 7,100.77857022

Hot Wallet:
1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71 > https://blockchain.info/address/1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71
Balance: 0

Affiliated Wallets, probably his own, since all the affiliated addresses send each other coins:

1AfY3571v8VbhMq19DA44378qSXPQmv734 > https://blockchain.info/address/1AfY3571v8VbhMq19DA44378qSXPQmv734
Balance: 599
Received BTC from 1GcWY as well as 1Anixj
https://blockchain.info/tx/e83076451c35e85733686d238ba6ae0d5bf7a3ce80d4c04390625e6f6e75157a
https://blockchain.info/tx/d50082cf25e3ea2b9f7811c5c747fd2414004c2bb1e7f100028f23f642c65565

1MVCn7PuFtnCgHKjYvVpqE62ifVKNCA8mU > https://blockchain.info/address/1MVCn7PuFtnCgHKjYvVpqE62ifVKNCA8mU
Balance: 1,532.00
Received BTC from 1Anix as well as 1AfY


Makes a total of 18079 BTC in control of Simon Hausdorf, and thats what I found in about 5 Minutes work. If we search deeper, we might find more. I found some edgy 96.xxxxBTC transfers from 1Anix but I am not sure if they are his because some of them are spend. But its unusual he sends money from 1Anix, since this is his cold storage(or maybe not).

Feel free to contribute.

                ▄▄███████▄▄
              ▄█████████████▄
              ▀███▀▀   ▀▀█████▄
     ▄▄███████▄▄          ▀████▄
   ▄█████████████▄         █████
 ▄█████▀▀   ▀▀████         █████
▄████▀                    ▄████▀
█████         ▄███▄▄   ▄▄█████▀
█████         ▀█████████████▀
▀████▄          ▀▀███████▀▀
 ▀█████▄▄   ▄▄███▄
   ▀█████████████▀
     ▀▀███████▀▀
CAPDAX
.
   ██ ██
██████████▄
  ███   ▀███
  ███   ▄██▀
  ████████▄
  ███   ▀███
  ███   ▄███
██████████▀
   ██ ██
    ▄█▄
   ▄███▄
  ▄█████▄
 ▄███████▄
▀█████████▀
▄▄ ▀███▀ ▄▄
 ▀█▄▄ ▄▄█▀
   ▀███▀
     ▀
     ███
    ▐██▌
    ███ ▄
   ▐████▀
  ▄███▀
▄████
▀ ██▌
 ▐██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 ██████████▌
    █████████████▄
   ▐███████████████
               ████
 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄      ▐███▌
▄██████       ████
▀▀▀▀▀▀       ▐███▌
             ████
 ███████████████
▐█████████████▀
          ▄███▄
         ███████
  ▄▄▄    ███████
▄█████▄  ▄████▀
████████████▌
▀█████▀  ▀████▄
  ▀▀▀    ███████
         ███████
          ▀███▀
.
etc.
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
.
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
awkorama
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 25
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 07:27:53 PM
 #62

Regarding the German/Polish account. I deposited Euros to the Polish account 09.04.2013 in the evening, not realizing that the account number changed. Since my bank refused to cancel the payment, I filed a support ticket at btc-24 with following response:

Quote
Kathi John replied
Hello,

the old bank account is also an active one.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Best regards
Kathi
------------------------------
BTC24 Ltd.
69 Great Hampton St
Birmingham
B18 6EW
Great Britain
This is an email from 10.04.2013
herzmeister
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
April 12, 2013, 07:56:08 PM
 #63

here he asked about how to fix the bug back then:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15026825/php-mysql-how-to-prevent-two-requests-update

---via http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c864t/what_happened_on_bitcoin24_today/

https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=80k | BTC: 1LJvmd1iLi199eY7EVKtNQRW3LqZi8ZmmB
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2013, 08:16:30 PM
 #64


Holy crap, I can't believe he was not using FOR UPDATE transactions to begin with. I wonder if he was using InnoDB... now I am a little bit worried!!
awkorama
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 25
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 08:21:42 PM
 #65


php+mysql might not be the best platform for order book processing... just saying...
candoo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 602
Merit: 500


Vertrau in Gott


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 08:40:45 PM
 #66



Einer trage des andern Last, so werdet ihr das Gesetz Christi erfüllen.
gfoot
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 08:53:38 PM
 #67

Yes i'm certainly considering action against him, due to the lack of information at all! Sometimes you need to announce drastic steps to get a reaction. Even ShitGox gave a statement what went wrong.
Only hours later, after obtuse tweets about DDOS that seemed, in the end, to be inaccurate.

Quote
And get the facts together:
You mostly listed irrelevant rumours, and those that are true are mostly just artifacts of being a small business suddenly overrun with customers.  No, it's not a good way to run a business, but it's also neither fraud nor illegal in any form.

Quote
- According to few pics i found, looked like he runs several (at least 5 or 6, maybe more) 5GH/s Bitforce miners. All of you are able to calculate...
So what?  If that's personal then it's none of your concern.  If it's business then it's good, his business should be well set to make good any debts he owes as a result of the trading engine bugs.  From what I've seen all the errors are in the customer's favour, so so far the only loser is the site, and hopefully the profits cover those losses.

Quote
- Never seen him in chat or must have missed him. Normally i'd show up and answer questions, talk to my clients few times a day for 10 minutes or so. Let them feel you are there even if not visible!
I've never seen my bank manager in chat, but I didn't send the police over when their website was down last summer.

Quote
- Phone number i've found isn't active
Why should it be, did they officially publish it?  It's still not a crime.

And now ask yourself, how would you pull a really profitable scam?

Quote
I think most of you never ran their own business, dealing with all sorts of idiots out there, ppl not willing to pay their invoices and so on. Sometimes you have to draw a line!
Do you have a copy of the terms and conditions you agreed to?  Has he violated any?  I don't recall seeing any form of SLA or other uptime guarantee.  It's the nature of all these trading sites - they are unregulated, any money or coins you deposit are theirs to hold on your behalf, and although you may hope to be able to access them easily, in practice all these sites seem to have variable performance, especially for withdrawals.

BTC: 14ciemcbiGQ328NUTUz7j4wZ2tKy998C4a
LTC: LMUo6xEJZtPsNDpZe2QLEzmK1eW4tYZNLF
RationalSpeculator
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294
Merit: 250

This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 09:22:21 PM
 #68

I really don't agree with the way Simon is accused and threatened here.

I do understand you are worried about your funds. It's rightful to feel worried and concerned.

But accusing him of fraud and threatening with violence locking him up in a cage, I find repulsive!

To the one doing this, I feel angry with you.

It is absolutely immoral to threaten to initiate violence against him.

I would never offer any services to you, knowing that you have no problem initiating violence when I fail to deliver.

Even if it was true that he defrauded you of your money, it's still immoral to initiate violence.


Take responsibility for your own actions.

As you know the exchange is basically free and living from donations. Donations that are needed to pay for customer support, technical support and legal support for example.  

Have you given any donations that can actually pay a bill or two?


I do want to thank you for your sharing of information and research. And again my sympathies to you and all the others with high stress and concerns you experience due to this.

About the bank account. From what I understand here it seems to be 2 accidents following up shortly. First the bank account being closed by authorities in Poland, which he did not announce before today (right?) but he did change bank account a few days ago to his personal one, which makes sense to me as he used also his personal account before he incorporated and openend an account in Poland. I would appreciate more info about why that government closed the account and if they seized the funds or were ok with releasing them.
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 09:34:11 PM
 #69

Can anyone post the hot and cold wallet addresses. I'd like to verify what funds were moved and when.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
physalis
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250



View Profile
April 12, 2013, 09:36:55 PM
 #70

Can anyone post the hot and cold wallet addresses. I'd like to verify what funds were moved and when.

just look a few posts above yours
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 09:38:15 PM
 #71

Can anyone post the hot and cold wallet addresses. I'd like to verify what funds were moved and when.

just look a few posts above yours

Ahh I had seen those before. Too much stressed to remember that now. My bad.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
ianspain
Donator
Full Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 164
Merit: 100



View Profile
April 12, 2013, 09:43:43 PM
 #72

I really don't agree with the way Simon is accused and threatened here.

I do understand you are worried about your funds. It's rightful to feel worried and concerned.

But accusing him of fraud and threatening with violence locking him up in a cage, without any evidence, I find repulsive!

To the one doing this, I feel angry with you.

It is absolutely immoral to threaten to initiate violence against him.

I would never offer any services to you, knowing that you have no problem initiating violence when I fail to deliver.

Even if it was true that he defrauded you of your money, it's still immoral to initiate violence.


Take responsibility for your own actions.

As you know the exchange is basically free and living from donations. Donations that are needed to pay for customer support, technical support and legal support for example. 

Have you given any donations that can actually pay a bill or two?


I do want to thank you for your sharing of information and research. And again my sympathies to you and all the others with high stress and concerns you experience due to this.

About the bank account. From what I understand here it seems to be 2 accidents following up shortly. First the bank account being closed by authorities in Poland, which he did not announce before today (right?) but he did change bank account a few days ago to his personal one, which makes sense to me as he used also his personal account before he incorporated and openend an account in Poland. I would appreciate more info about why that government closed the account and if they seized the funds or were ok with releasing them.

+1 I agree but we should really get Simon to update if possible.

BlockChain Capital
mrvision
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 326
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 09:58:57 PM
 #73

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175123.msg1822998#msg1822998 <--- GO HERE!

wilfried
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 288
Merit: 250


ManualMiner


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 10:09:48 PM
 #74


Be sure i checked that number before, i don't wanna have hundreds of ppl calling him, keeping him away from work if he tries to fix the engine  Wink .


bla bla, build your own exchange, but be sure i sue your ass off if it lags more then 0.0001 !
you knew what you did when you registered with bitcoin-24. if something is fishy its 100% your fault, this is not your protected little consumer world, this is the bitcoin universe. never invest money you cant afford to loose, never (real wordl, internet or anywhere). stay cool or stay away.
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 10:42:11 PM
 #75


Be sure i checked that number before, i don't wanna have hundreds of ppl calling him, keeping him away from work if he tries to fix the engine  Wink .


bla bla, build your own exchange, but be sure i sue your ass off if it lags more then 0.0001 !
you knew what you did when you registered with bitcoin-24. if something is fishy its 100% your fault, this is not your protected little consumer world, this is the bitcoin universe. never invest money you cant afford to loose, never (real wordl, internet or anywhere). stay cool or stay away.

It may come as a surprise to you but we all indeed keep that in mind.. "never invest what we are not willing to lose"

However, "willing to lose" is different from "not getting pissed off when you lose your money that you were willing to lose"

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
wilfried
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 288
Merit: 250


ManualMiner


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 10:49:46 PM
 #76

yeah of course, but theres a difference between discussing the fact that a site went offline, if api keys where misused, if the admin is trading himself by setting limits he knows of before they are published, if innodb or myisam was used etc etc and that whining and aggravating and instantly threatening everybody.
no one knows if anything is lost at bitcoin-24, we will see. theres no point in getting pissed at the moment, besides beeing an asshole Smiley
realme
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 10:52:28 PM
 #77

hello.

and who is still trading at Bitcoin-24.com?

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 10:56:21 PM
 #78

hello.

and who is still trading at Bitcoin-24.com?

Interesting.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
realme
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 11:03:21 PM
 #79

In USD no trades, ...

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24USD_trades.html

only in EUR:

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/bitcoin24/EUR
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000


Gerald Davis


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 11:06:23 PM
 #80

Did he do something stupid like leave API access active when he "shutdown" the site?  If so and there is a flaw in the trading engine well that would be ... bad right?
etanoox
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 134
Merit: 11


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 11:53:20 PM
 #81

Well shit. I have money in deposit there.
 Angry
And who are trading in Eur now?
o-O

DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000


Gerald Davis


View Profile
April 12, 2013, 11:55:39 PM
 #82

Cross posting for a noob who doesn't have access

Quote
as some of you may have noticed from watching the charts at:

http://s2.bitcoinity.org/markets/bitcoin24/EUR
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

there is still trading activity occurring on bitcoin-24.com, despite the site ostensibly being closed for the past ~12hours.

it is actually still entirely possible to access the exchange interface in full and make trades as normal (at least in EUR, haven't tried USD). not sure of API access as i've never used it.

withdrawing funds may also be possible but i'm not certain of that.

hopefully this information is of some use to btc24 users - not entirely sure how but i can't keep it quiet - hence signing up to post this

can prove this if necessary.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175205.0
hackstutz
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 20
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 07:41:25 AM
 #83

 Grin i imagine the police to confiscate the hardware... this would mean the police stores the stuff in some basement forever because they dont know how to handle anything related to IT.

1HACKntH4Z6mS5hRk8xPzTowrxQrpDi6jM
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 07:57:59 AM
 #84

Grin i imagine the police to confiscate the hardware... this would mean the police stores the stuff in some basement forever because they dont know how to handle anything related to IT.

Exactly. And if that happens people would probably never get their money.
Booooooo
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 118
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 09:17:38 AM
 #85

was it possible from bitcoin-24 send own bitcoins to another wallet? Do you think would be possible is somehow now?

realme
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 09:31:49 AM
 #86

No more trades... two hours ago.
http://bitcoinity.org/markets/bitcoin24/EUR


http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html
diego1000
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 581
Merit: 500



View Profile
April 13, 2013, 09:53:58 AM
 #87

any news?

sto per lanciare i lovecoin impossibili da comprare con i soldi e da minare con la corrente.
awkorama
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 25
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 09:56:18 AM
 #88

any news?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9eb1h6
Trading
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1316
Merit: 1010


Nothing like healthy scepticism and hard evidence


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 10:01:56 AM
 #89

Simon Hausdorfs Bitcoin Wallets:

Cold Storage:

1GcWYgqbdtzZAGsX2iSVBS74cPBiQjCiRg > https://blockchain.info/address/1GcWYgqbdtzZAGsX2iSVBS74cPBiQjCiRg
Balance: 8,848.39013303

Semi Hot Wallet (maybe Cold storage):
1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26 > https://blockchain.info/address/1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26
Balance: 7,100.77857022

Hot Wallet:
1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71 > https://blockchain.info/address/1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71
Balance: 0

Affiliated Wallets, probably his own, since all the affiliated addresses send each other coins:

1AfY3571v8VbhMq19DA44378qSXPQmv734 > https://blockchain.info/address/1AfY3571v8VbhMq19DA44378qSXPQmv734
Balance: 599
Received BTC from 1GcWY as well as 1Anixj
https://blockchain.info/tx/e83076451c35e85733686d238ba6ae0d5bf7a3ce80d4c04390625e6f6e75157a
https://blockchain.info/tx/d50082cf25e3ea2b9f7811c5c747fd2414004c2bb1e7f100028f23f642c65565

1MVCn7PuFtnCgHKjYvVpqE62ifVKNCA8mU > https://blockchain.info/address/1MVCn7PuFtnCgHKjYvVpqE62ifVKNCA8mU
Balance: 1,532.00
Received BTC from 1Anix as well as 1AfY


Makes a total of 18079 BTC in control of Simon Hausdorf, and thats what I found in about 5 Minutes work. If we search deeper, we might find more. I found some edgy 96.xxxxBTC transfers from 1Anix but I am not sure if they are his because some of them are spend. But its unusual he sends money from 1Anix, since this is his cold storage(or maybe not).

Feel free to contribute.

No need to real worry until those balances start to shrink or disappear without anyone receiving their money back. Since fast withdraw is essential to a scammer, I don't think Simon is planning to scam us or all the money would be long gone. Of course, if people start calling the police too soon, that can trigger some undesirable consequences. Simon knows it's hard to run anywhere in modern European Union or even abroad. No need to remember him that. And he already updated his message on https://bitcoin-24.com/. At least the "closed your Bank account in Poland" was changed. But he should prepare things in order to allow people to withdraw their bitcoins. Or, at least, write a more assuring message about he returning all the money and give us some kind of deadline.

My main posts and a few more are reposted here: https://oneskeptic.tumblr.com
realme
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 10:09:06 AM
 #90


wrong, now there are trades again!
anon24
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 10:20:02 AM
 #91


http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html


notice how all the latest ones have executed in duplicate/triplicate too. always the sign of a healthy trading engine Smiley

13aLoc3ZgV5x7Vv5oE6QQpiS6ihQtZt6Bm
allocater
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 29
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 10:27:58 AM
 #92

Maybe he is testing the new code.
anon24
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 10:40:50 AM
 #93

Maybe he is testing the new code.
on an exchange that is effectively live though? while his customers still have active orders, no less.

i think someone has just worked out how to access the exchange and is taking advantage of the glitch to inflate their balance. you can see that orders are regularly executed twice, giving double coins/EUR, which you can then trade the opposite way in multiple tiny orders and have many of those executed twice too. end result = free money essentially. i tried it briefly few hours ago and increased my EUR balance by 200 in about 5 mins... stopped straight away of course (and am ready/willing to hand the funds back)

trading engine is an absolute joke atm - this is why i didn't want to share how to get in

13aLoc3ZgV5x7Vv5oE6QQpiS6ihQtZt6Bm
realme
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 11:22:10 AM
 #94

increased my EUR balance by 200 in about 5 mins.
But from where comes the opposite for your trade? do you need to do "crosstrade", trade with yourself? You dont trade/match with other orders from other market participants, right?
From where comes the money (200 eur) you earned?

I like to understand the leak.

Thanks
klee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484
Merit: 1000



View Profile
April 13, 2013, 11:43:45 AM
 #95

increased my EUR balance by 200 in about 5 mins.
But from where comes the opposite for your trade? do you need to do "crosstrade", trade with yourself? You dont trade/match with other orders from other market participants, right?
From where comes the money (200 eur) you earned?

I like to understand the leak.

Thanks

From all the users funds???

Damn...
anon24
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 11:48:13 AM
 #96

increased my EUR balance by 200 in about 5 mins.
But from where comes the opposite for your trade? do you need to do "crosstrade", trade with yourself? You dont trade/match with other orders from other market participants, right?
From where comes the money (200 eur) you earned?
nowhere - it doesn't really exist other than in bitcoin24's database. for whatever reason, the trading engine is spazzing out and crediting twice (or more) for trades in some instances. it doesn't matter how i'm buying from or selling to really, because the amount of free coins being made out of thin air by the bug makes it impossible to lose.

i tested this last night when i was the only one on it (seemingly). i don't mind detailing this now because the site is properly down and no-one can get in to take advantage, but if i'd revealed how as soon as i knew this could have been happening for hours. from memory i did:

make buy order 1 btc @ ~80 euro
make buy order 1 btc @ ~80 euro
account is credited for 3 btc, only 160 euro taken

make sell order 0.1 btc @ ~77 euro
x30

account is credited for 4.5btc worth of trades @ 77euro/btc

so i ended up with approximately +200EUR more than when i started over the course of a few minutes and just some quick clicking. really i should have been down about 6EUR i guess.

i was clicking very rapidly when making the buy/sell orders in order to reproduce the glitches i'd read about and it obviously worked very well. however even when NOT trying to induce a problem the glitch would still occur - i made a small trade just so i could see if the BTC withdrawal function was working, and ended up getting credited two or three times. just a simple, one click buy order, with no load on the engine as i was just about the only person there. something is clearly very wrong. i wasn't on the exchange this time yesterday but i can see why it was taken offline so abruptly if this was happening. it also explains why the hotwallet is being kept empty - if everyone draws out their coins this can't be corrected. if the coins stay in the system, the database of trades can be rolled back (as i understand it) and BTC/EUR/USD balances can be restored to something resembling 'normality' before the glitch.

13aLoc3ZgV5x7Vv5oE6QQpiS6ihQtZt6Bm
anon24
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 11:51:38 AM
 #97

increased my EUR balance by 200 in about 5 mins.
But from where comes the opposite for your trade? do you need to do "crosstrade", trade with yourself? You dont trade/match with other orders from other market participants, right?
From where comes the money (200 eur) you earned?

I like to understand the leak.

Thanks

From all the users funds???

Damn...
if anyone is to lose out it should be bitcoin24 as they will (morally at least(!)) have to settle their customers' accounts whilst also taking the hit of whatever bitcoins were wrongly credited by the trading engine and quickly extracted. the admin hasn't disappeared just yet (posted on reddit earlier) so i haven't lost all hope.

13aLoc3ZgV5x7Vv5oE6QQpiS6ihQtZt6Bm
diego1000
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 581
Merit: 500



View Profile
April 13, 2013, 11:54:18 AM
 #98


 the admin hasn't disappeared just yet (posted on reddit earlier) so i haven't lost all hope.

url ?

sto per lanciare i lovecoin impossibili da comprare con i soldi e da minare con la corrente.
anon24
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 11:55:35 AM
 #99


 the admin hasn't disappeared just yet (posted on reddit earlier) so i haven't lost all hope.

url ?






Smiley
why he hasn't updated his site i don't know

13aLoc3ZgV5x7Vv5oE6QQpiS6ihQtZt6Bm
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 13, 2013, 12:27:07 PM
 #100

Thinking about it, the most annoying thing about this is that it prevented me from buying at yesterdays low. Today the price is almost double... bah, that would have been a nice profit margin! Boo. Anyway, hopefully it will be back up tomorrow Smiley
Beutelschneider
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 01:27:28 PM
 #101

Thinking about it, the most annoying thing about this is that it prevented me from buying at yesterdays low. Today the price is almost double... bah, that would have been a nice profit margin! Boo. Anyway, hopefully it will be back up tomorrow Smiley

 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes I suggest you switch to a well known FOREX broker, IMHO oanda has a very good reputation! If you want a nice client interface, try FXCM! And their platforms are much more reliable than the systems run by a handfull of ppl or one-man-bands like Simon!  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


By this point, i won't consider any legal action against him as (i hope  Cheesy) he is working to fix that giant pile of shit that occurred. Calling the authorities on him would be the last option if he would try and run away or giving a shit on us and our money/BTC in.
 
Puppet
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 01:28:20 PM
 #102

Thinking about it, the most annoying thing about this is that it prevented me from buying at yesterdays low. Today the price is almost double... bah, that would have been a nice profit margin! Boo. Anyway, hopefully it will be back up tomorrow Smiley

I wish I shared your optimism. A zero fee exchange with huge bug in trading engine, site closed, change of banks, talk of lawyers,..
Getting just half my coins/euros back at some point, is more then Im willing to bet on right now.
realme
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 02:17:23 PM
 #103

Could you stop small talk please. This is an important topic an should be the place for exchange of relevant information.
Thanks

If you want know something about Simon and his business:
http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46
Arlog
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 10
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 04:39:01 PM
 #104

Why he hold btc if the problem is bank account?
wuala
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 162
Merit: 100


Luk, soy tu padreeee


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 05:27:41 PM
 #105

Why he hold btc if the problem is bank account?

I suggest:

What about sending all funds in bitcoins?

1) Instant
2) No wait to the bank account problem to solve

Leave the force be with you...
GreekGeek
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 575
Merit: 500


Jesus was a (Goddamn) hippy socialist


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 05:43:04 PM
 #106

Why he hold btc if the problem is bank account?

That is exactly my question !
I never made a trade on btc24 either
I just "parked" my bitcoins there

retirement fund : 1NBM5DM317RfWsHXKUfPUDtba2scavpPoB
alexh
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10



View Profile
April 13, 2013, 05:52:59 PM
 #107

Do you guys think we will ever see our money again?

glub0x
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 869
Merit: 1001



View Profile
April 13, 2013, 05:54:14 PM
 #108

Quote
Do you guys think we will ever see our money again?
this.

The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions

Satoshi Nakamoto : https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
GreekGeek
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 575
Merit: 500


Jesus was a (Goddamn) hippy socialist


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 06:02:28 PM
 #109

Do you guys think we will ever see our money again?

the word "lawyers" is worrying

retirement fund : 1NBM5DM317RfWsHXKUfPUDtba2scavpPoB
xyz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 760
Merit: 504


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 06:11:10 PM
 #110

Why he hold btc if the problem is bank account?

I suggest:

What about sending all funds in bitcoins?

1) Instant
2) No wait to the bank account problem to solve

You seem to forget that bitcoin-24 was a trading center! There you could buy and sell btc to or from those who want to sell or buy. From where should Simon take btc for your Euro or Dollars? He can only pay back what you have there!
let us hope he will do it finally...
MY BIG problem with him is that he never comes here and tells us what really happened and what he will do to solve the problems!

And for the btc: there have been problems too, as you know. Some where sold twice or more. He have to figure out what happened! Till he really know how much btc every client have he cannot pay SOME back!

anon24
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 07:13:15 PM
 #111

i suspect the reason he is holding BTC is because of the trading engine glitches causing people to get free coins. if everyone cashes out he can't rollback the trades and undo the damage. i imagine a lot of people transferred their funds out as soon as they realised what was happening so he might already be down.

then again i've seen no acknowledgement from him at all that there was any problem with the trading engine, so who knows... a bit of communication would go a long way here!

13aLoc3ZgV5x7Vv5oE6QQpiS6ihQtZt6Bm
Delicieuxz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
April 13, 2013, 08:18:59 PM
 #112

Seems like the next big pile of shit is gonna hit the fan in 20 minutes...
Coppers will only laugh at you if you bring this shit up with no fraud evidence at all.

exactly! it's just a piece of paper, nothing more

Arrest warrants, court orders, court judgments... they're all just pieces of paper, but they will screw up peoples' life.

robix
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 360
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 10:08:45 PM
 #113

The situation is, we are absolutely blind at the moment.

First of all, anyone here who knows Simon personally. Try to get in contact and retrieve information. Has anyone any form of communication with him?

Second. The information policy is absolutely unsatisfying. What's the reason. Too much problems to solve, advice of lawyer, or just with intent to defraud? I don't know. What can we do. He should know, that lag of information doesn't make things better.

I suppose there are a lot of people, more or less involved in this matter. Give your thoughts.
moni3z
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 886
Merit: 1000



View Profile
April 13, 2013, 10:16:27 PM
 #114

Could you stop small talk please. This is an important topic an should be the place for exchange of relevant information.
Thanks

If you want know something about Simon and his business:
http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46

Lol look that name up in stackexchange/overflow "how does I float calculations?" that is why there's trading engine problems. never use float when money is involved http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15165559/how-to-round-amounts-correct-update-1
MegaBrutal
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 60
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 13, 2013, 11:55:07 PM
 #115

----- RANT -----
How can I be so unfortunate that I send a deposit hours before the site goes down? I was so upset on Mt.Gox that I lost my trust in it - when their service went down like the 5th time after they promised they made huge improvements those I haven't seen; I immediately transferred all my funds to Bitcoin-24 when Mt.Gox came back online, in the hope that I get better service there. Went to sleep, woke up, saw my transaction was confirmed, was glad; then saw Bitcoin-24: "Our Service is momentarily not available." - no worries, they must be doing some maintenance, all trading sites have problems these days - Vircurex was also down like a week ago.

But now I'm getting worried that maybe I never see my money again, which would mean the end of the Bitcoin business for me: since I'm poor like hell, I don't have more money to invest. It was a huge luck that I ever got here, since I got in half a year ago when BTC was at ~9-10 EUR. Those times it was affordable for me, and anyway, my original investment has already returned, nevertheless I would have liked to see my profits grow larger - it would help a lot in my financial situation, I found it possible that some day it would end my poverty.
----- End Of Rant -----

(Why this forum doesn't have spoiler tags?)

Nah, to be more constructive; my highly optimistic guess is that Simon doesn't communicate more because he's hell busy fixing the site. As an IT person, he would probably prefer to solve the problem at hand and then do the communication. When you're really into something, communication might be distractive. Either he's working on the problem or communicate; probably he doesn't have time or energy to do both at once. (The case of Mt.Gox was different, however: since they are a huge business, I'd expect much more professionalism from them in the field of communication - they are even able to hire people just for the sole purpose of communication.)

Well, I sent a kind e-mail to Simon, asking my BTC back - no reply since then, but note I just sent it less than a day ago, so patience is a virtue. Likely that the trade engine was shut down before it could pick up my deposit: it's still sitting on my deposit address, and I think my transaction wasn't even confirmed when the site closed. I guess my deposit wasn't even registered in the system - all he needs to do is to transfer my money from the deposit address to my address, no database hacking or anything is necessary. Since my money didn't took part of the chaos caused by the trade engine bug, I'm hoping he's gonna send it back to me.


Why he hold btc if the problem is bank account?

I guess he's just too busy to do that at the moment, it would be a lengthy and complicated task - probably he's better off fixing the site soon and then let people to withdraw their funds on their own.

I know I might sound naively optimistic, actually I'm also worried (as you can see in my above rant), but as for now, I'd like to exercise some more understanding and trust what he wrote: "All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.".


The situation is, we are absolutely blind at the moment.

True. Sad Hope we'll get some more enlightenment soon.

BTC: 18nAftZTnH4LjY9fPPow1aF5tGD1JiF7ZH
LTC: LV9MiA3iPVUm8qRFYbLkARuoYwvmHwhWaC

Buy some Negro candies!
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 03:58:31 AM
 #116

To open up full trading again the account balance would need to be able to be released and transferred to the other bank account.

My suspicion is that alongside the database engine issue there could be problems with the funds in the closed Polish account being frozen.

Why do I think this? Looking at the way this exchange was run. Plus the announcement on the website "our lawyers are working on a solution".

You do not need solutions from lawyers simply when a bank account is closed. The balance is simply transferred to another account. There is some other reason.

Why would bank account funds be frozen? Banks and other institutions are required to take preventative action if they suspect their facilities may be being used for money laundering or other illegal activity. With the customer being a Bitcoin exchange, there could be issues concerning AML/KYC compliance (or possibly as seems the case here, the lack of it).

This suggests to me it could be more than a simple account closure and move to another bank account involved here. These AML/KYC regulations will most likely apply to both accounts: Poland and Germany.  

Lawyers working on a solution. We know how fast lawyers work (paid by the hour and they dont work weekends).

footnote: I do not know for sure if the above is 100% the case, it's just conjecture. I hope things are not that involved.


EDIT: Note to moderators. There are at least 3 threads on this topic currently active, wouldnt it make sense to merge them into one?
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 04:17:01 AM
 #117

Simon has been uncommunicative in the past as well, so nothing new here. What is disturbing is the type of questions he has asked on Stackoverflow. These and the fact that he is the sole person running the show should have been more public. I blame the people on this forum for not disbursing this information well enough. They should be held responsible for our loss, apart from Simon. (those that knew these two facts and still kept quiet). 

I did the same mistake and transferred bitcoins there hours before this happening.
Its all our mistake for not doing due-diligence in the matter. Basically bitcoin-24 is a "one-man-show". How an exchange run by a single guy (a single point of failure, if you may) can be called "the biggest European exchange" is beyond me.

In the future, NEVER put your money where only one person is in charge of it... I would say at least two people need to be in control of the funds.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
jonytk
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 106
Merit: 10



View Profile
April 14, 2013, 05:12:15 AM
 #118

boys boys, is anyone in contact with MTGOX and the other exchanges? they should know about this.
I mean, really,
the "panic" selling 3 days ago, may very well just been due to this,
See:
People make funny money on bitcoin-24, then started transfered to mtgox or other exchanges
 some cashed out for $ but others "see the ones doing the pump and dump" just pumped the price until the crash
rinse, repeat, until btcoin-24 hot wallet was out of coins.


Or i was the only one at 180Eur doing arbitrage with the exchanges, buy gox 180 sell bitcoin-central 190... etc?
and i didn't know anything about the bug, i just knew: damn prices are higher in European exchanges.

How many people saw that video? And how many people knew it before! you don't need to be a hacker to use this to "steal"

Now, i never transferred money there, just 0.5 btc, it thought it was fishy that they didn't have trading fees, this is not good,
it's impossible, any real forex always has a margin even small but some, and it protects against any rounding error.

Another indication, his VouchX was ALWAYS empty in the last week! so people, So i knew there was some kind of huge arbitrage going on.
when was the last time anyone did a "real" sepa order and transfered money out?

Now if i had money there i will be concerned if he can really roll back everything. i guess he will try to honor the monies of the people that make deposits
you can say bye bye to your coins there. Since he didn't have trading fee he has no assets! And be sure people siphoned money out of there via vouchx and btc.

That's why he have to contact big exchanges and ask them to freeze accounts of people that used the bug to siphoned btc out changed for money and is at their withdrawal limits!

Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 05:34:37 AM
 #119

It is possible that only very little funds have actually been taken off btc24.  They all seem to be stuck

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
arlekyn13
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 288
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 07:43:37 AM
 #120

I remember people in bitcoin-24 website chat were complaining about extremely long delays with bitcoin withdrawals, up to 12h. Maybe larger amounts were manually checked to make sure they were not a result of the trading bug? When my SEPA deposit was finally credited, I just bought the bitcoins and withdrew them and the transfer was on the network within 15mins or so, at the same time someone was complaining about a half a day delay with his btc withdrawal. That would mean that maybe the loss caused by the trading system is actually limited, but since the website was pretty much profitless, might be just enough for the website owner to not be able to cover it.

1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
moni3z
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 886
Merit: 1000



View Profile
April 14, 2013, 08:01:52 AM
 #121

bitcoin.de forum has more info https://forum.bitcoin.de/boersen-handelsplaetze/632-ist-mit-bitcoin-24-los-4.html#post3496

Quote
I think we can definitely rule out malice. It seems here to trade the chain of unfortunate events. Triggered by a 23 year old, which the thing is simply gotten out of hand.

For the people who still have significant money in it (eg I), a small consolation, but at least reason to hope. If one reads a little further, then one is also clear quickly ... the thing is through. BTC24 is history and the coal is probably very well. If I ever get anything back ... nice. That will never go up in life again properly or "be resolved back". Nevertheless, I would like my money back ... :-)

In Bremen, he lives no more. I was looking at his address, which can be found on the Web. I was not the first, as I am his old landlord said.

Lol angry mob of germans after him in meatspace
Arlog
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 10
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 08:43:06 AM
 #122

TAiS46 said "ETA will be given tomorrow!".
MegaBrutal
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 60
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 08:45:46 AM
 #123

My money is still sitting at the deposit address - so it hasn't been spent, this is good. On the other hand, I still haven't received a reply for my e-mail, though I think he must be overloaded with e-mails right now.

But reading the above, I'm getting worried. Several exchange sites experienced several problems so far, but AFAIK it never ever happened that a site had lost its clients' money! Shocked There are so many sites I could have moved on to from Mt.Gox and I had to choose this?! Angry That money is more than I ever had in my life at once (despite it's not a horrible amount, actually)!

I want my money back! Seriously!

Even though I said what I said in my previous post, I think after ~2-3 days after the incident, the time has really arrived for some proper communication. At least, he must see the panic, he should really jump in to give an explanation or provide a way for refunds. It frustrates me that I have no control over my money, and it's even more frustrating that probably I won't have ever again.


TAiS46 said "ETA will be given tomorrow!".

Where?

BTC: 18nAftZTnH4LjY9fPPow1aF5tGD1JiF7ZH
LTC: LV9MiA3iPVUm8qRFYbLkARuoYwvmHwhWaC

Buy some Negro candies!
hansmentz
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 9
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 08:52:29 AM
 #124

Quote
Where?

In his latest Reddit post.
Newscastix
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 09:03:15 AM
 #125

My money is still sitting at the deposit address - so it hasn't been spent, this is good.

This!

So don't only check BTC-24 coldwallet, also check your deposit addresses! There are tons of BTC still sitting there....!!

Mine are still in my deposit address....
MegaBrutal
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 60
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 09:09:54 AM
 #126

Quote
Where?

In his latest Reddit post.


Let's quote it here, just in case:

Quote from: Simon's Reddit post ~25 minutes ago
All money send to the BZWBK (Poland) bank account and which are still send to this account, can not be stopped. The Bank account in Poland is noch closed, it is just blocked! So all arriving payments will not send automatically back.

The Comerzbank (German bank account) is closed in 2 Month. We are not able, to send funds anymore from this bank account, because we had a very low limit on this bank account and I can't get money out of it. My lawyer is in contact with the bank on monday.

First of all, we must find the reason for all this, what happen. All we know is, that the German government asked for help from the Poland government, to close the Bank account in Poland. Some people are asking now: Why is not the Commerzbank still closed? The reason is, that it is not so easy in Germany to close an bank account within some minutes like it is in poland.

WHY does the German government closed our bank accounts and WHY do they give us no information, before they are doing this? WHY must we hear from the Polish government, what happening atm?

  • 1 Lawyer, 1 from the Government and 2 students in Poland are helping us to get the Polish Bank account back. I am sure, that we will get the bank account back, maybe also this week! So we are able to do all payouts which are open.
  • Asking the Commerzbank for more information, why they also closed our bank account, wich reason did they have to do this?
  • Our lawyer is trying to get the Commerzbank account back, because there is no reason, to close our bank account.
  • Setting up the trading engine again

More informations tomorrow, after my lawyer gives me a feedback if it is safe to publish that, what I am writing. It is not easy atm for me to give a statement, before it was double checked.

Source:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9evqfb

BTC: 18nAftZTnH4LjY9fPPow1aF5tGD1JiF7ZH
LTC: LV9MiA3iPVUm8qRFYbLkARuoYwvmHwhWaC

Buy some Negro candies!
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 09:31:34 AM
 #127

My money is still sitting at the deposit address - so it hasn't been spent, this is good.

This!

So don't only check BTC-24 coldwallet, also check your deposit addresses! There are tons of BTC still sitting there....!!

Mine are still in my deposit address....

I can confirm the btc are still on my deposit address.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
hackstutz
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 20
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 09:58:51 AM
 #128

i checked my deposit adress.

my last desposit 04/11 evening is still there. earlier deposits where moved to 1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26
this is the cold wallet right?

i think the whole trade engine mess ist not the big problem. maybe simon did not loose any cent because the hot wallet is empty most of the time and i guess he noticed the mess before he refunded it.
i am more worried about the blocked account. it might take a long time if there was need that lawyers are involved. and i start to think about how to actually withdraw fiat money (never did that before). as i read in this thread started by simon, there were several incidents in the past with closed accounts. also they state, some customer accounts where closed by their banks after ther withdrew money from some exchange...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=98434.0
(german)

anyone here ever had problems with their bank after a fiat money withdrawal?

1HACKntH4Z6mS5hRk8xPzTowrxQrpDi6jM
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 14, 2013, 10:03:45 AM
 #129

It doesn't sound good. When it was a trading engine problem only, I was confident. Because it is now a legal issue with the banks I am afraid our money is going to be lost :S Of course, who is the beneficiary in this? Banks... they will run away with our money!
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 10:10:22 AM
 #130

This is pretty much what I suspected.

It doesn't mean any euro deposits are lost from the bank accounts, it should all be safe.

But the questions that remain are

1. How long will the deposits remain inaccessible?

2. When will the exchange come back online?   Partly this depends on 1.

and

3.  What about the incorrect trades that occurred?

 Undecided
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 14, 2013, 10:12:01 AM
 #131

@bitbadger

I think the incorrect trades that occured have all been successfully rolled back a long time ago. It's not that hard if he was keeping an appropiate log which it seems he was doing.
arlekyn13
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 288
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 10:17:45 AM
 #132

I'm not worried that our money will be forever trapped in a bank account. Surely that will be solved. I'm worried about our bitcoin deposits because the trading bug might've generated enough losses for the website so that Simon won't be able to cover them from his own pocket. I also see no updates on the steps he took to fix the trading engine. If the website opens again, I will gladly keep using it as long as the bug would be fixed.

1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
GreekGeek
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 575
Merit: 500


Jesus was a (Goddamn) hippy socialist


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 10:47:47 AM
 #133

My money is still sitting at the deposit address - so it hasn't been spent, this is good.

This!

So don't only check BTC-24 coldwallet, also check your deposit addresses! There are tons of BTC still sitting there....!!

Mine are still in my deposit address....

my coins are still on a deposit address too  (didn't have the opportunity to trade on btc24) 
I think we will be the first to get our bitcoins back

retirement fund : 1NBM5DM317RfWsHXKUfPUDtba2scavpPoB
realme
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 11:06:00 AM
 #134

Quote
TAiS46 5 points 2 hours ago

All money send to the BZWBK (Poland) bank account and which are still send to this account, can not be stopped. The Bank account in Poland is noch closed, it is just blocked! So all arriving payments will not send automatically back.

The Comerzbank (German bank account) is closed in 2 Month. We are not able, to send funds anymore from this bank account, because we had a very low limit on this bank account and I can't get money out of it. My lawyer is in contact with the bank on monday.

First of all, we must find the reason for all this, what happen. All we know is, that the German government asked for help from the Poland government, to close the Bank account in Poland. Some people are asking now: Why is not the Commerzbank still closed? The reason is, that it is not so easy in Germany to close an bank account within some minutes like it is in poland.

WHY does the German government closed our bank accounts and WHY do they give us no information, before they are doing this? WHY must we hear from the Polish government, what happening atm?

    1 Lawyer, 1 from the Government and 2 students in Poland are helping us to get the Polish Bank account back. I am sure, that we will get the bank account back, maybe also this week! So we are able to do all payouts which are open.
    Asking the Commerzbank for more information, why they also closed our bank account, wich reason did they have to do this?
    Our lawyer is trying to get the Commerzbank account back, because there is no reason, to close our bank account.
    Setting up the trading engine again

More informations tomorrow, after my lawyer gives me a feedback if it is safe to publish that, what I am writing. It is not easy atm for me to give a statement, before it was double checked.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9evqfb


It seems to be a big problem for Simon to make his businesses legal!
In Germany you can't do financial service (businesses ) without  authorisation from Bafin (Federal Financial Supervisory Authority) http://www.bafin.de/EN/Homepage/homepage_node.html

I guess, our money will not get lost, but I doubt that Simon will solve the legal issues quick! Simon seems to be a good guy, but he is also very young and naive (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=98434.0) in that kind of businesses and laws!
The problem is not about matching engine I guess...

xylop
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 11:08:00 AM
 #135


As you know the exchange is basically free and living from donations. Donations that are needed to pay for customer support, technical support and legal support for example.  

Have you given any donations that can actually pay a bill or two?


didn't know he run on donations. He could have advertized that more maybe.
Used the "same day" transfers , so he got share that way. Also am willing to lose another percent or so from my 5k if that's what it takes.

I don't understand these "eek I'm afraid I will not see my money again" comments.Please stop it. It's annoying and pathetic.
Some people give up surprisingly easily it seems.
realme
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 11:13:48 AM
 #136

I don't understand these "eek I'm afraid I will not see my money again" comments.Please stop it. It's annoying and pathetic.

Yes!
It seems, if we want help, we should find the reason about the action of the German government! And how to solve...

In the German forum Simon was wondering last year, why mtgox wants that customers do verification.
btc24EUR had 33,113,295.34 Trade Volume in last 30 days!
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

The German government sure, wants to know something about, if there is money laundering...
Xendrios
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 212
Merit: 100



View Profile WWW
April 14, 2013, 12:28:01 PM
 #137

I don't understand these "eek I'm afraid I will not see my money again" comments.Please stop it. It's annoying and pathetic.

Yes!
It seems, if we want help, we should find the reason about the action of the German government! And how to solve...

In the German forum Simon was wondering last year, why mtgox wants that customers do verification.
btc24EUR had 33,113,295.34 Trade Volume in last 30 days!
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

The German government sure, wants to know something about, if there is money laundering...

I don't think the german authority has any jurisdiction over an english company... Let alone jurisdiction over the bank account in poland of an english company. IF the germans had any issues with money laundering they should have contacted the English authorities.

Sell or buy items at bitcoin247sales.com - flatrate fees - cheapest around!
Post feedback at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328169.0
realme
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 12:47:45 PM
 #138

I don't think the german authority has any jurisdiction over an english company... Let alone jurisdiction over the bank account in poland of an english company. IF the germans had any issues with money laundering they should have contacted the English authorities.

Maybe...
But Simon wrote: ". All we know is, that the German government asked for help from the Poland government, to close the Bank account in Poland. "
Beutelschneider
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 01:27:17 PM
 #139

Yes!
It seems, if we want help, we should find the reason about the action of the German government! And how to solve...

In the German forum Simon was wondering last year, why mtgox wants that customers do verification.
btc24EUR had 33,113,295.34 Trade Volume in last 30 days!
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

The German government sure, wants to know something about, if there is money laundering...

Be sure EVERY Bank has to inform authorities if millions of € going over your personal account within a month!

I don't think the german authority has any jurisdiction over an english company... Let alone jurisdiction over the bank account in poland of an english company. IF the germans had any issues with money laundering they should have contacted the English authorities.

German authorities have power over his german back account, thats enough!

At this point, no one of us has to take legal actions 'cause police and tax authorities are already on his ass! He might be already in custody, and someone is posting with his nick predefined statements!

Think i'm gonna have a talk with a lawyer who is a retired bank manager  Lips sealed
mrvision
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 326
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 01:58:28 PM
 #140

Simon might be waiting for his lawer to give him the 'ok' to communicate with us as i have read in his reddit lasts post.

keatonatron
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 250


Jack of oh so many trades.


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 02:14:54 PM
 #141

Too soon?  Grin

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1526

1KEATSvAhbB7yj2baLB5xkyJSnkfqPGAqk
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 04:32:50 PM
 #142

I don't understand these "eek I'm afraid I will not see my money again" comments.Please stop it. It's annoying and pathetic.

Yes!
It seems, if we want help, we should find the reason about the action of the German government! And how to solve...

In the German forum Simon was wondering last year, why mtgox wants that customers do verification.
btc24EUR had 33,113,295.34 Trade Volume in last 30 days!
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

The German government sure, wants to know something about, if there is money laundering...

I don't think the german authority has any jurisdiction over an english company... Let alone jurisdiction over the bank account in poland of an english company. IF the germans had any issues with money laundering they should have contacted the English authorities.

The German government has jurisdiction over any company operating in Germany. It also has jurisdiction over banks and banking operations and conduct in Germany.

It doesn't matter where the company is registered. What matters is where the company operates from in practice.

This is not always easy to determine in practice. It depends on things such as where the business office (not the registered office) is based for managing and running the company on a day to day basis and sometimes also where any plant is based. It can also take into account where the revenue is banked. 

From what I gather of this situation, the bank accounts were/are in Poland and Germany, not in the UK. And it looks like the company is probably run from Germany, even if it is registered in UK.

So it is Poland and Germany who would have jurisdiction.
gfoot
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 04:47:19 PM
 #143

The bank accounts are also in his personal name, not the business's, and I believe he is a German citizen, not a UK citizen.

BTC: 14ciemcbiGQ328NUTUz7j4wZ2tKy998C4a
LTC: LMUo6xEJZtPsNDpZe2QLEzmK1eW4tYZNLF
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000


Gerald Davis


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 04:54:15 PM
 #144

But reading the above, I'm getting worried. Several exchange sites experienced several problems so far, but AFAIK it never ever happened that a site had lost its clients' money!

Really?

bitcoinica - lost funds - still in liquidation/lawsuit - deposits haven't seen a cent.
Crypto-X-Change - losts funds - operators AWOL - depositors haven't seen a cent.
bitfloor - lost funds - still operating - making slow repayment of lost funds (~3% so far IIRC)
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000


Gerald Davis


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 04:55:50 PM
 #145

The bank accounts are also in his personal name, not the business's, and I believe he is a German citizen, not a UK citizen.

Well the good news for creditors that makes his LTD worthless.  A court would find him personally liable for all losses and damages.  Then again who knows if he has any funds.  Hopefully his "lawyer" has informed him of complete personal liability (as in can lose everything he owns, personal assets, car, house, cash in bank, etc) and thus he is motivated to provide some transparency on what happens and what depositors can expect.
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 04:59:12 PM
 #146

The bank accounts are also in his personal name, not the business's, and I believe he is a German citizen, not a UK citizen.

Well the good news for creditors that makes his LTD worthless.  A court would find him personally liable for all losses and damages.  Then again who knows if he has any funds.  Hopefully his "lawyer" has informed him of complete personal liability (as in can lose everything he owns, personal assets, car, house, cash in bank, etc) and thus he is motivated to provide some transparency on what happens and what depositors can expect.

Rule No 1.

NEVER run any kind of currency exchange business using your own personal bank account.

And least of all one that requires compliance with anti money laundering regs and all the other requirements. Suicidal.

The amateurism involved in this operation amazes me.

gfoot
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 05:02:54 PM
 #147

To be clear, I don't know for sure about the Polish bank - the transfer I was looking at was sent after he'd switched the details on the website to point to his personal bank in Germany.  So it's possible that until that point he was using a business account.  I don't know exactly when he made the switch, it sounds like it was only a few days ago.

BTC: 14ciemcbiGQ328NUTUz7j4wZ2tKy998C4a
LTC: LMUo6xEJZtPsNDpZe2QLEzmK1eW4tYZNLF
klee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484
Merit: 1000



View Profile
April 14, 2013, 05:08:18 PM
 #148

The bank accounts are also in his personal name, not the business's, and I believe he is a German citizen, not a UK citizen.

Well the good news for creditors that makes his LTD worthless.  A court would find him personally liable for all losses and damages.  Then again who knows if he has any funds.  Hopefully his "lawyer" has informed him of complete personal liability (as in can lose everything he owns, personal assets, car, house, cash in bank, etc) and thus he is motivated to provide some transparency on what happens and what depositors can expect.

Rule No 1.

NEVER run any kind of currency exchange business using your own personal bank account.

And least of all one that requires compliance with anti money laundering regs and all the other requirements. Suicidal.

The amateurism involved in this operation amazes me.


What really amazes me is how ignorant & naive the people trading there were (including me)!
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000


Gerald Davis


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 05:11:29 PM
 #149

To be clear, I don't know for sure about the Polish bank - the transfer I was looking at was sent after he'd switched the details on the website to point to his personal bank in Germany.  So it's possible that until that point he was using a business account.  I don't know exactly when he made the switch, it sounds like it was only a few days ago.


Yes everything indicates the Polish bank was in the company name but it doesn't matter when he switched or why.  When his company bank account got shut down he should have stopped accepting deposits.  Period.  By using his personal account to accept funds in the company name he pierced the corporate veil. Hopefully this is a lesson to those getting started in business.

As bad as things got for bitcoin24 if he stopped trading when he realized a flaw in his trading engine and stopped accepting deposits when his bank account had gotten frozen the issue would be far less severe right now.  By continuing to operate with an engine that allowed double payments and rerouting massive flows of cash into his personal bank account he made a bad situation much worse.  Now it is unlikely everything will be resolved quickly and without cost.  Any cost and losses are going to fall on him personally so I hope he is independently wealthy. 
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 05:15:53 PM
 #150

The bank accounts are also in his personal name, not the business's, and I believe he is a German citizen, not a UK citizen.

Well the good news for creditors that makes his LTD worthless.  A court would find him personally liable for all losses and damages.  Then again who knows if he has any funds.  Hopefully his "lawyer" has informed him of complete personal liability (as in can lose everything he owns, personal assets, car, house, cash in bank, etc) and thus he is motivated to provide some transparency on what happens and what depositors can expect.

Rule No 1.

NEVER run any kind of currency exchange business using your own personal bank account.

And least of all one that requires compliance with anti money laundering regs and all the other requirements. Suicidal.

The amateurism involved in this operation amazes me.


What really amazes me is how ignorant & naive the people trading there were (including me)!
Yep, Im also guilty. I got the impression the operation was flying by the seat of it's pants, but I willingly shut one eye to it. And this is what happens.

klee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484
Merit: 1000



View Profile
April 14, 2013, 06:47:08 PM
 #151

To be clear, I don't know for sure about the Polish bank - the transfer I was looking at was sent after he'd switched the details on the website to point to his personal bank in Germany.  So it's possible that until that point he was using a business account.  I don't know exactly when he made the switch, it sounds like it was only a few days ago.


Yes everything indicates the Polish bank was in the company name but it doesn't matter when he switched or why.  When his company bank account got shut down he should have stopped accepting deposits.  Period.  By using his personal account to accept funds in the company name he pierced the corporate veil. Hopefully this is a lesson to those getting started in business.

As bad as things got for bitcoin24 if he stopped trading when he realized a flaw in his trading engine and stopped accepting deposits when his bank account had gotten frozen the issue would be far less severe right now.  By continuing to operate with an engine that allowed double payments and rerouting massive flows of cash into his personal bank account he made a bad situation much worse.  Now it is unlikely everything will be resolved quickly and without cost.  Any cost and losses are going to fall on him personally so I hope he is independently wealthy. 
THIS
sbrzol
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 569
Merit: 500


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 06:53:26 PM
 #152

if i knew that bitcoin24 is a "one person" firm  i would never deposit
when mtgox cool down for 12 hours, i wanted to sell 175 btc, before gox reopen and the rate goes down
i searched another exchange, found bitcoin24  with the highest EUR volume (after gox) with sepa deposit/withdrawal
i thought high volume  is enough to trust
i think not only me registered for this reason to sell some btc before gox reopen

i planned to spend this money within 6 weeks , but now i hope to get it back before August ,
perhaps only 50-80% but it is more than nothing  (if there is not enough btc,eur  cos of engine broken, we wont get back all our money)

dscotese
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 446
Merit: 250


I prefer evolution to revolution.


View Profile WWW
April 14, 2013, 08:03:44 PM
 #153

Heh.  That's a lot easier than the insurance idea I thought of.  But I could probably earn more by doing the work than by simply placing a bet.

I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my valueAvoid supporting terrorism!
Satoshi Nakamoto: "He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules."
realme
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 08:05:28 PM
 #154

Yes everything indicates the Polish bank was in the company name but it doesn't matter when he switched or why.  ...

Yes polish Bank account was in the company name:
BTC24 Limited
IBAN PL18 1090 1115 0000 0001 2021 9027
BIC WBKPPLPP

What really amazes me is how ignorant & naive the people trading there were (including me)!
Yep, Im also guilty. I got the impression the operation was flying by the seat of it's pants, but I willingly shut one eye to it. And this is what happens.

Me too. And especially, if I found this German topic called Bitcoin and the banks!, which he opened on bitcointalk  -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=98434.0
He wrote about his bad experiences with banks. That they closed a lot of his bank accounts!!! Reading this posts after all this what happened, its so crazy. On November 02, 2012, post #79

Postbank hat mit 2 Monaten frist nun auch gekündigt
Grund ist halt das was alle anderen Banken auch sagen.

Langsam bin ich fast durch mit den Konten in Deutschland.
Werde ich jemals wieder eins besitzen können? Ne spaß bei Seite.
Commerzbank und Norisbank habe ich jetzt noch offen.

Das Polnische Konto (Bank Zachodni WBK S.A.) hat bereits über 500.000 EUR
stand gehalten und wird es auch weiter hin tun Smiley Sie sind einfach die besten.

P.s. ich war vor kurzem wegen Geldwäsche aussagen.
Ermittlungsverfahren wurde aber fallengelassen.

Außstehende 10.000 EUR von der DAB Bank wurden durch den Anwalt
wiedergeholt Smiley
I try to translate:
He says: Postbank cancelled my account too. They say the same as the other banks say...
Slowly but steady I tried and "failed" every bank account in germany!
Will I ever get one again in germany? sorry, jokes aside.
Commerzbank and Norisbank I have'nt tried.
the polish account (Bank Zachodni WBK S.A.) is already above 500.000 EUR
and well. And it will be well furthermore... (VERY naive, oh ma god)
Bank Zachodni they are the best.

We are all very naive to give this very young guy thousands of our Euro!  Grin me too

Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 09:58:31 PM
 #155

German banks are crazy. They once refused to reactivate my account for a 15 Euro bill I had connected to my account and forgot about it. They went to Schufa and now there are shoot at sight orders on me.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
GreekGeek
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 575
Merit: 500


Jesus was a (Goddamn) hippy socialist


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 11:46:24 PM
 #156

the coins I had on btc24 were moved from my deposit address !!!!
any one else knows about this?

retirement fund : 1NBM5DM317RfWsHXKUfPUDtba2scavpPoB
RationalSpeculator
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294
Merit: 250

This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!


View Profile
April 14, 2013, 11:53:46 PM
 #157

I knew bitcoin-24 was a one man operation. I also knew he had used his personal bank account before the polish one. I actually send fiat to his personal account when I started end 2012. I knew he was taking high risk. But the risk was the banking system, not him. Later on I noticed he had incorporated and a new bank account in Poland on that company's name so I thought that was a good way forward to professionalization. And now the corporate bank account got closed. Not his personal one, the one from the corporation.

So, I get the impression, what happened has nothing to do with the fact he started out using his personal bank account. It has to do with governments shutting down bank accounts used for bitcoin. ALM and stuff might certainly lower that risk, but not exclude it, as I think was shown by mtgox their bank accounts also being closed before. I don't think I took an unnecessary risk. The same can happen with mtgox tomorrow, again. Right?
Beutelschneider
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 12:23:04 AM
 #158

DO NOT TRUST THE "ALPHA" OF BTC24

IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE TRYING TO SCAM PPL

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9f9fcp

EDIT:

CHECK IF POSTET IN OTHER RELATED THREADS, IF NOT, DO SO
Aianis
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 20
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 12:58:26 AM
 #159

DO NOT TRUST THE "ALPHA" OF BTC24

IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE TRYING TO SCAM PPL

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9f9fcp

EDIT:

CHECK IF POSTET IN OTHER RELATED THREADS, IF NOT, DO SO

Thank you very much, Beutelschneider. I know you were willing to file a lawsuit, glad you changed your mind, for now, at least. Thank you for helping us all.
michaelGedi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 250


"to be or not to be, that is the bitcoin"


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 01:52:42 AM
 #160

I'm don't work with computers really, so please could someone put my mind at rest about this URL - http://adminsimidi5544.bitcoin-24.com/


I entered my details here after someone posted it in another thread (or this one?). I'm sure it would have been flagged already - and I'm close to sure that the .bitcoin-24.com part of the address means it's still hosted in the same place as the real deal, BUT considering the rest of my tech knowledge I'd like to be reassured if possible... thanks and fingers crossed on the bitcoin24 headfuck adventure for all of us.  Undecided


TRADE FOREX, STOCKS AND COMMODITIES without the paperwork with Bitcoin: https://1broker.com/m/r.php?i=3589

1BROKER has been around since 2012 and is going strong
Izumi Konata
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 9
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 02:12:14 AM
 #161

I just noticed he posted 3 Tweets @ https://twitter.com/Bitcoin24com, not that they're very informative ... But we'll see tomorrow...

I'm don't work with computers really, so please could someone put my mind at rest about this URL - http://adminsimidi5544.bitcoin-24.com/

I entered my details here after someone posted it in another thread (or this one?). I'm sure it would have been flagged already - and I'm close to sure that the .bitcoin-24.com part of the address means it's still hosted in the same place as the real deal, BUT considering the rest of my tech knowledge I'd like to be reassured if possible... thanks and fingers crossed on the bitcoin24 headfuck adventure for all of us.  Undecided

As far as I can tell this is the real login page for the admin part of the site. I tried logging in there as well but it didn't work obviously.

░▒▓█ *Link Removed* █▓▒░  *Link Removed*   *Link Removed*
dscotese
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 446
Merit: 250


I prefer evolution to revolution.


View Profile WWW
April 15, 2013, 04:06:18 AM
 #162

DO NOT TRUST THE "ALPHA" OF BTC24

IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE TRYING TO SCAM PPL

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9f9fcp

EDIT:

CHECK IF POSTET IN OTHER RELATED THREADS, IF NOT, DO SO

Thank you very much, Beutelschneider. I know you were willing to file a lawsuit, glad you changed your mind, for now, at least. Thank you for helping us all.
The URL mentioned in the post points to this IP:
BaseRecord    Pref    NameIP-numberReverseRouteAutonomous System
bitcoin-24x.coma76.73.42.227
Denver, CO, United States
(none)76.73.0.0/17
PNAP-DEN
AS30058
FDCSERVERS
(from http://ip.robtex.com/76.73.42.227.html)

If you agree, as I do, that bitcoin-24x.com is not a legitimate site, please report it to Google at http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/report_phish/

I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my valueAvoid supporting terrorism!
Satoshi Nakamoto: "He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules."
VeeMiner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 751
Merit: 500


bitcoin hodler


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 07:53:52 AM
 #163

let's hope the problem will resolve quickly. I don't think that bitcoin-24 was a scam, but it just wasn't well thought through technically and legally
tempt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 289
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 08:20:18 AM
 #164

As a german involved into this with about 30.000€ in withdrawal I have bad news for everyone.

First off, I am running a company since 4 years. We have had similar problems in the first, due to a high figure cashflow (not near the several million mark as BTC24, but close). The problem is not only criminal money, but also the taxes that not have been paid.

Yes, he has a company in UK. Yes, he said he pays taxes. But if you receive a single transaction above 10.000€ the BaFin (the bank supverision) will investigate and eventually involve the german tax authorities. This is where the problem really starts. When the german tax authorities start to investigate, they dont respect any customer rights.
Also, it seems like the BaFin requested the accounts to be closed. Or even the tax authorities, Hausdorf has not been very open about that. I dont think he does not want to be transparent with this, but that he simply has no clue. I have discussed this with our tax advisor and he told me some cruel storys.
For example has there been a Voucher Exchange based in UK operating in germany which has been closed without the funds ever being released again. The reason is simple:
You are laundering money. Yes, your money would be released if you could proof the tax authorities or the BaFin wrong. But the problem is: You simply cant.
To proof that you are not laundering money you need to provide personal details with proof for EVERY transaction on your bank account AND online transactions.

This is where the problem starts: How does Hausdorf proof that he is not cashing himself thousands of bitcoins out to different addresses? Right, he cant.

I do not believe in anything he says except the part with his bank accounts. And also there may be a lawyer involved, but he cant change anything.

This being said, I am very angry. I have only read all that scary stuff from him a few days ago.
He is being reckless with a lot of money and I hope he will rod in jail for that stupid shit he did. He as ZERO CLUE of what he has gotten into. For example did he post on reddit something about sueing german government for a compensation payment and to release a bonus to all users when that is over. NOT GONNA HAPPEN, DOUCHEBAG.

Yea, I'm angry that I lost 30k, still I am a stupid shit for not investigating before I deposited money.

Worst thing is: I am going to be one of the last ones to receive money. Because he is too stupid to increase daily transfer limit (for me its only a call to increase it to 500k or whatever, did it several times without problems, apparently he is not able to pick up the phone) he would take 3 days to transfer my money alone.
You dont have to be a genius that he will transfer all small payments first to increase good feedback.

If I ever see my money again I will be a happy man, but right now I am depressed.

                ▄▄███████▄▄
              ▄█████████████▄
              ▀███▀▀   ▀▀█████▄
     ▄▄███████▄▄          ▀████▄
   ▄█████████████▄         █████
 ▄█████▀▀   ▀▀████         █████
▄████▀                    ▄████▀
█████         ▄███▄▄   ▄▄█████▀
█████         ▀█████████████▀
▀████▄          ▀▀███████▀▀
 ▀█████▄▄   ▄▄███▄
   ▀█████████████▀
     ▀▀███████▀▀
CAPDAX
.
   ██ ██
██████████▄
  ███   ▀███
  ███   ▄██▀
  ████████▄
  ███   ▀███
  ███   ▄███
██████████▀
   ██ ██
    ▄█▄
   ▄███▄
  ▄█████▄
 ▄███████▄
▀█████████▀
▄▄ ▀███▀ ▄▄
 ▀█▄▄ ▄▄█▀
   ▀███▀
     ▀
     ███
    ▐██▌
    ███ ▄
   ▐████▀
  ▄███▀
▄████
▀ ██▌
 ▐██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 ██████████▌
    █████████████▄
   ▐███████████████
               ████
 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄      ▐███▌
▄██████       ████
▀▀▀▀▀▀       ▐███▌
             ████
 ███████████████
▐█████████████▀
          ▄███▄
         ███████
  ▄▄▄    ███████
▄█████▄  ▄████▀
████████████▌
▀█████▀  ▀████▄
  ▀▀▀    ███████
         ███████
          ▀███▀
.
etc.
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
.
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
arlekyn13
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 288
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 09:39:19 AM
 #165

The weekend is gone and we're all waiting for a promised statement from Simon. What I'd like to hear from him is:
- whether the bank issues will be solved or not, if yes, when should customers expect to be able to withdraw EUR/$ from their accounts
- how big was the impact of the trading engine error on the BTC amount available.  Were there any BTC losses (customers withdrawaing amounts resulted from double/triple trades), if so what would be the percent potentially affecting customers BTC balances?
- is there a solution to either of the two issues (banking/trading engine)?

1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
Jaques
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 09:43:17 AM
 #166

I'm don't work with computers really, so please could someone put my mind at rest about this URL - http://adminsimidi5544.bitcoin-24.com/


I entered my details here after someone posted it in another thread (or this one?). I'm sure it would have been flagged already - and I'm close to sure that the .bitcoin-24.com part of the address means it's still hosted in the same place as the real deal, BUT considering the rest of my tech knowledge I'd like to be reassured if possible... thanks and fingers crossed on the bitcoin24 headfuck adventure for all of us.  Undecided



"I wrote your name in the sky, but the wind blew it away. I wrote your name in the sand, but the waves washed it away. I wrote your name in my heart, and forever it will stay."

 Roll Eyes
Aianis
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 20
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 10:01:52 AM
 #167


If you agree, as I do, that bitcoin-24x.com is not a legitimate site, please report it to Google at http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/report_phish/

Done. Advise everyone to do the same before people who did not see this wouldn't get them selves caught in even more shit.
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 10:07:10 AM
 #168

strange. now it redirects to bitcoin-24.com

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
wilfried
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 288
Merit: 250


ManualMiner


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 10:15:17 AM
 #169

hy guys, fasten your seatbelts:
http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46

2. post
tempt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 289
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 10:43:25 AM
 #170

hy guys, fasten your seatbelts:
http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46

2. post


As I said above, that week will go by without any withdrawals. Then there will be a 3 month timeout and Hausdorf will go broke. Then there will be no lawyer anymore and we will have lost our money. Only way for him to solve this further is sell the bitcoins that we have deposited at Bitcoin 24.

                ▄▄███████▄▄
              ▄█████████████▄
              ▀███▀▀   ▀▀█████▄
     ▄▄███████▄▄          ▀████▄
   ▄█████████████▄         █████
 ▄█████▀▀   ▀▀████         █████
▄████▀                    ▄████▀
█████         ▄███▄▄   ▄▄█████▀
█████         ▀█████████████▀
▀████▄          ▀▀███████▀▀
 ▀█████▄▄   ▄▄███▄
   ▀█████████████▀
     ▀▀███████▀▀
CAPDAX
.
   ██ ██
██████████▄
  ███   ▀███
  ███   ▄██▀
  ████████▄
  ███   ▀███
  ███   ▄███
██████████▀
   ██ ██
    ▄█▄
   ▄███▄
  ▄█████▄
 ▄███████▄
▀█████████▀
▄▄ ▀███▀ ▄▄
 ▀█▄▄ ▄▄█▀
   ▀███▀
     ▀
     ███
    ▐██▌
    ███ ▄
   ▐████▀
  ▄███▀
▄████
▀ ██▌
 ▐██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 ██████████▌
    █████████████▄
   ▐███████████████
               ████
 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄      ▐███▌
▄██████       ████
▀▀▀▀▀▀       ▐███▌
             ████
 ███████████████
▐█████████████▀
          ▄███▄
         ███████
  ▄▄▄    ███████
▄█████▄  ▄████▀
████████████▌
▀█████▀  ▀████▄
  ▀▀▀    ███████
         ███████
          ▀███▀
.
etc.
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
.
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
sbrzol
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 569
Merit: 500


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 10:55:23 AM
 #171

Quote

As I said above, that week will go by without any withdrawals. Then there will be a 3 month timeout and Hausdorf will go broke. Then there will be no lawyer anymore and we will have lost our money. Only way for him to solve this further is sell the bitcoins that we have deposited at Bitcoin 24.


lol, only way if money(eur) lost  that everybody gets only bitcoins,  but only 30%-60% of their balance (eur,btc, according rates)   ( to cover the eur loss and everybody get back some money in this case btc )    and after it you could withdraw your bitcoins to elsewhere
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 11:08:20 AM
 #172

After all that Ive seen and experienced, I really don't have any appetite for any of these amateur hour "Bitcoin exchanges" anymore.

Unless or until an established Forex dealing business expands into the Bitcoin market I think I'd prefer to avoid the lot.
arlekyn13
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 288
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 11:18:58 AM
 #173

I'm not sure I fully understood what the "Germans" want from him. They want to close his business in order to reduce their bank's vulnerability? They just want him to return the stolen funds even though they were not stolen by him? What is he supposed to do during that 7 days time frame? Aren't other exchanges exposed to the same risks? And still no real updates on the trading engine errors and no ETA on site being operational again (at least the possibility of checking our balances).

1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 11:27:50 AM
 #174

I'm not sure I fully understood what the "Germans" want from him. They want to close his business in order to reduce their bank's vulnerability? They just want him to return the stolen funds even though they were not stolen by him? What is he supposed to do during that 7 days time frame? Aren't other exchanges exposed to the same risks? And still no real updates on the trading engine errors and no ETA on site being operational again (at least the possibility of checking our balances).
I have the feeling the operator of this exchange is out of his depth with this business.

I hope at the very least he has a competent database admin and systems programmer to work alongside him, as well as competent legal advice regarding banking and currency exchange regulations.

You also need a skilled computer systems security specialist to keep a continuous eye on all the server security issues.

I wouldn't dare venture into such a business without having at least the above competencies to hand, it would just be inviting big problems sooner or later.

It's rather a German response to immediately start threatening legal action left right and centre when something goes wrong.."Sie werden von meinem Anwalt hoeren".
obit33
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 479
Merit: 253


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 12:04:15 PM
 #175

some more 'news'...

http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46

just an ETA would be nice... i just wanna check my funds...
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 12:11:50 PM
 #176

This is looking more and more fishy. Random comments on twitter, not answering a question that has been asked 1000 times ("what about the BTC? Why do you keep talking about "bank accounts"?), updating via reddit..

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 12:28:03 PM
 #177

This is looking more and more fishy. Random comments on twitter, not answering a question that has been asked 1000 times ("what about the BTC? Why do you keep talking about "bank accounts"?), updating via reddit..

It's just amateur hour that's all. Nothing fishy about amateur hour. Its what you expect.
Rockefoten
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 134
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 12:39:10 PM
 #178

This is looking more and more fishy. Random comments on twitter, not answering a question that has been asked 1000 times ("what about the BTC? Why do you keep talking about "bank accounts"?), updating via reddit..

It's just amateur hour that's all. Nothing fishy about amateur hour. Its what you expect.

This is either amateur hour or a scam. Have we seen anything that makes it improbable that this is a scam? Have we seen any statements from the banks/his lawyers whatever that verifies his story?
I'm not saying this is a scam, but I wouldn't actually be surprised if it turns out to be one, right now we would be in the" stalling" stage.
wofugang
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 13
Merit: 0



View Profile
April 15, 2013, 12:42:42 PM
 #179

I don't understand the whole story! Wasn't it a German bank account? IBAN was starting with DE which stands for Germany!

Support the development of bitcoin apps by donating to:
BTC: 1Nxa4CSg3ePuCt1UZZNjztSM5ZFaxYQa4f
XRP: rBhS13DTq3SdA7kqoVKJPa1iYXez1rtTie
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 01:10:05 PM
 #180

This is looking more and more fishy. Random comments on twitter, not answering a question that has been asked 1000 times ("what about the BTC? Why do you keep talking about "bank accounts"?), updating via reddit..

It's just amateur hour that's all. Nothing fishy about amateur hour. Its what you expect.

This is either amateur hour or a scam. Have we seen anything that makes it improbable that this is a scam? Have we seen any statements from the banks/his lawyers whatever that verifies his story?
I'm not saying this is a scam, but I wouldn't actually be surprised if it turns out to be one, right now we would be in the" stalling" stage.

if you look back through the threads on this forum it appears that there have been numerous problems with this exchange (as also with the others), and it's still around and he hasn't taken off yet with all the money.

If he did so it would be extremely foolish. And it's not difficult to trace people with internet and mobile phones etc so he wouldnt even get very far for very long. People leave their digital fingerprints all over the place nowadays.

So on balance I don't think there's anything shady going on. Just a heap of cock ups and a great pile of ****.

obit33
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 479
Merit: 253


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 01:15:03 PM
 #181

I think you are right bitbadger... why would someone leave his name and address, and even pictures of himself all over the internet if he wants to commit a scam...

I think/hope Simon is a sincere guy, but he's sitting on a huge pile of shit atm...

It would be nice though if he communicated more clearly en set an ETA for his exchange to reopen...

best regards,
Rockefoten
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 134
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 01:39:25 PM
 #182

I think you are right bitbadger... why would someone leave his name and address, and even pictures of himself all over the internet if he wants to commit a scam...

I think/hope Simon is a sincere guy, but he's sitting on a huge pile of shit atm...

It would be nice though if he communicated more clearly en set an ETA for his exchange to reopen...

best regards,

Again, I'm not saying it is a scam, but him being known does not in any way exclude it being a scam. It wasn't exactly like Pirate's real identity and location was unknown, he even met with his pass through operators in Vegas, and posted a picture from the meeting! His name is well known , but he is still on the loose with no money recovered...

So no, that info does not in itself convince me that it's not a scam.

I guess we can see that the btc hasn't been moved yet (haven't checked it myself), but do we know that the fiat is still in the bank account, apart from him saying so?

I don't mean to be conspiratorial, but I don't see solid evidence that this is not a scam. Personally however I am very open to that this just is a major fuck up on his part.
RationalSpeculator
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294
Merit: 250

This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 02:12:47 PM
 #183

I don't mean to be conspiratorial, but I don't see solid evidence that this is not a scam.

You are turning the tables. Suggesting someone is scamming you need evidence first. Not the other way around. 'I can accuse or suggest he is scamming as long as my money is locked', is false and unjust to him.  

Personally however I am very open to that this just is a major fuck up on his part.

To me this looks like another major fuck up holdup by a government. Point the finger to the one locking your money. Not the one that is also a victim.
Rockefoten
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 134
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 02:25:16 PM
 #184

I don't mean to be conspiratorial, but I don't see solid evidence that this is not a scam.

You are turning the tables. Suggesting someone is scamming you need evidence first. Not the other way around. 'I can accuse or suggest he is scamming as long as my money is locked', is false and unjust to him.  

Given that we don't have anything to go by other than what Simon has said, we don't have any evidence one way or the other. That means we're stuck with trust as our guideline. And the communication from Simon hasn't really increased my trust in him, simple drops here and there, and not answering relevant questions (like why he hasn't released any of the btc yet, and why there has been recent movement from the hot wallet)
RationalSpeculator
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294
Merit: 250

This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 02:47:23 PM
 #185

I don't mean to be conspiratorial, but I don't see solid evidence that this is not a scam.

You are turning the tables. Suggesting someone is scamming you need evidence first. Not the other way around. 'I can accuse or suggest he is scamming as long as my money is locked', is false and unjust to him.  

Given that we don't have anything to go by other than what Simon has said, we don't have any evidence one way or the other. That means we're stuck with trust as our guideline. And the communication from Simon hasn't really increased my trust in him, simple drops here and there, and not answering relevant questions (like why he hasn't released any of the btc yet, and why there has been recent movement from the hot wallet)

You are ignoring my argument.

It is very simple to know if it is true whether the government is holding up the money or it is Simon. Simply call the bank in question.

About releasing btc, if it is true that the trade engine went ballistic, as many have confirmed here, than he cannot release any btc before everything is reversed.

This logic is valid, even if he did not make a declaration confirming this is why he holds onto the coins, or moves coins around.


Don't get me wrong, anyone providing evidence that he is scamming I value highly. However, someone suggesting, implying or accusing him of scamming without providing evidence is acting unfair towards him I believe strongly.
Rockefoten
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 134
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 03:03:51 PM
 #186


Don't get me wrong, anyone providing evidence that he is scamming I value highly. However, someone suggesting, implying or accusing him of scamming without providing evidence is acting unfair towards him I believe strongly.

I absolutely see your points. I guess our differences come down to how much we trust Simon based on his communication these last days. Anyway, hopefully we will know more in a couple of days.
alphadude
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 38
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 03:53:38 PM
 #187

Point the finger to the one locking your money. Not the one that is also a victim.

It's not a governement that has locked my BTC away...
I'm not all that worried though, but some communication would be nice (well actually it feels like mandatory in a situation like this) and would hopefully calm people down a bit.
keatonatron
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 250


Jack of oh so many trades.


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 04:15:33 PM
 #188

In the US we try to uphold the idea of "innocent until proven guilty". Is that the same for these forums?

(very different from "trustworthy until proven untrustworthy," though!)

1KEATSvAhbB7yj2baLB5xkyJSnkfqPGAqk
Rockefoten
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 134
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 04:38:15 PM
 #189

In the US we try to uphold the idea of "innocent until proven guilty". Is that the same for these forums?

(very different from "trustworthy until proven untrustworthy," though!)

I think that's beside the point. Pointing out possibility of a scam must be allowed before there is damning evidence available. Has it been proven that Pirate simply didn't lose all that money he owed?
Again, I'm not saying this is a scam, I'm saying events up until now are still very compatible with it being a scam. Some will think this is unfair to Simon, but until he starts to communicate for real or prove that some action is being taken, I reserve the right to be suspicious.
Valerian77
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 04:45:37 PM
 #190

I did some transactions on btc24. This situation does not provide much trust for further business with this platform. Aside from that I was not alwas sure about the computations in btc24 - even I did never complain due to that only small values were affected.

My recommendation is to complete outstanding debits (with a lawyer if necessary) and to use different market places in future. Aside from trust worthy market MtGox a highly distributed solution is needed which can only be based on a 'everybody is a market place' paradigm. Personally I registered with localbitcoins.com, which seems to be one of the best OTC solutions by now. There is space for a new paralleled and distributed service for the near future. -- if anyone with a profound technical knowledge base is interestet in specification and setup he may contact me.

Bitmessage: BM-2cTHvwzzG3cDJxmM7YrYXSaBex4oRobJxu
darnth
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 19
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 05:17:57 PM
 #191

Just adding some information I collected in various threads and on reddit:

Bitcoin24 is pretty much dead, mainly for the second of two problems:

1) The admin/owner TAiS46 does not seem to have the necessary experience to run a big trading platform. As evident from a few slightly worrying questions he asked in coding forums the last months, bitcoin24 was a bit of a learning-by-doing thing. As we all know due to a problem of the trading engine to deal with multiple requests of the same trade (that was already discussed on a php forum two months ago) too many BTCs were credited for a number of trades (the list can be found online), but to my best knowledge we dont know whether significant BTCs were removed by users exploiting that bug.
I personally think this is the reason TAis46 took the site down and he is now supposedly working on rolling back the double/triple/quadruple orders that happened (to his expense) and fixing the trade engine. He still has 16k+ bitcoins in his cold storage (1GcWYgqbdtzZAGsX2iSVBS74cPBiQjCiRg, 1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26) and an unknown number in user deposit addresses I guess.
Whether he will pay that out or be able to is anyones guess, also see 2).

2) There are strict regulations in place for any bank/currency exchange/... operating in europe, to hinder money laundering:
- the operator has to identify every customer, e.g. mtgox verification before entering a significant (withdraw/deposit amount) business relationship
- any transactions above 15k euro, or even below if suspicious (e.g. anonymous savings account) has to be reported to the authorities
Hence bitcoin24, from the start, violated anti-money laundry regulations, probably strongly.
From a post on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46 he still seems to think thats not his responsibility, but thats wrong and naive.
He even admits having had trouble with his german account from the start, as known stolen (phishing/hacked) accounts transfered money to his account, but despite that didnt think it through but instead just used a polish account.
bitcoin24 was very convenient for legitimate users, but for the same reasons the perfect money laundering tool. Considering his success, he managed to fly under the radar for quite some time, but that wont work infinitely (hindsight Sad ).

Its not clear that the current legal trouble is due to accusations of money laundering, but it seems very likely. Either someone in administration noticed the amount of money going through his site and reopenend investigation, or the investigation was started by following the money that disappeared from known stolen bank accounts again. The german administration requested assistance from the polish, and they were just faster in freezing the account. The german account is on very low transaction limit, not completely frozen yet, but is expected to soon be (all according to TAiS46, and I think he might actually say the truth)
Due to being in violation of regulations from the start of bitcoin24, I dont see him having any chance in the legal battle, though Sad

(edit: problems 1 and 2 are probably not directly connected, as he changed the account for international deposits the day before the site went down, but might be both connected to the preceding price boom)

The big question is I guess now whether the administration asks him to freeze bitcoin assets also, and if not, whether he'll actually be able to/allow withdrawal of BTC. The fiat is probably tied up in the legal battle for quite some time. Fines for money laundering (even if not that intentionally) can also be rather high (its not the US where a big bank had to pay a 1.9 billion dollar fine, but still).

In any case bitcoin24 is dead, the admin in deep trouble, what he will do with the BTC is anyones guess now.

TL;DR version:
bitcoin24 ran a multi-million euro business
-without anyone having the technical competence to run such a big platform
-without any legal advice
All else follows logically from these two.


P.S.: Hindsight is of course cheap Sad


BitAurum
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 318
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 05:28:36 PM
 #192

Just adding some information I collected in various threads and on reddit:

Bitcoin24 is pretty much dead, mainly for the second of two problems:

1) The admin/owner TAiS46 does not seem to have the necessary experience to run a big trading platform. As evident from a few slightly worrying questions he asked in coding forums the last months, bitcoin24 was a bit of a learning-by-doing thing. As we all know due to a problem of the trading engine to deal with multiple requests of the same trade (that was already discussed on a php forum two months ago) too many BTCs were credited for a number of trades (the list can be found online), but to my best knowledge we dont know whether significant BTCs were removed by users exploiting that bug.
I personally think this is the reason TAis46 took the site down and he is now supposedly working on rolling back the double/triple/quadruple orders that happened (to his expense) and fixing the trade engine. He still has 16k+ bitcoins in his cold storage (1GcWYgqbdtzZAGsX2iSVBS74cPBiQjCiRg, 1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26) and an unknown number in user deposit addresses I guess.
Whether he will pay that out or be able to is anyones guess, also see 2).

2) There are strict regulations in place for any bank/currency exchange/... operating in europe, to hinder money laundering:
- the operator has to identify every customer, e.g. mtgox verification before entering a significant (withdraw/deposit amount) business relationship
- any transactions above 15k euro, or even below if suspicious (e.g. anonymous savings account) has to be reported to the authorities
Hence bitcoin24, from the start, violated anti-money laundry regulations, probably strongly.
From a post on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46 he still seems to think thats not his responsibility, but thats wrong and naive.
He even admits having had trouble with his german account from the start, as known stolen (phishing/hacked) accounts transfered money to his account, but despite that didnt think it through but instead just used a polish account.
bitcoin24 was very convenient for legitimate users, but for the same reasons the perfect money laundering tool. Considering his success, he managed to fly under the radar for quite some time, but that wont work infinitely (hindsight Sad ).

Its not clear that the current legal trouble is due to accusations of money laundering, but it seems very likely. Either someone in administration noticed the amount of money going through his site and reopenend investigation, or the investigation was started by following the money that disappeared from known stolen bank accounts again. The german administration requested assistance from the polish, and they were just faster in freezing the account. The german account is on very low transaction limit, not completely frozen yet, but is expected to soon be (all according to TAiS46, and I think he might actually say the truth)
Due to being in violation of regulations from the start of bitcoin24, I dont see him having any chance in the legal battle, though Sad

(edit: problems 1 and 2 are probably not directly connected, as he changed the account for international deposits the day before the site went down, but might be both connected to the preceding price boom)

The big question is I guess now whether the administration asks him to freeze bitcoin assets also, and if not, whether he'll actually be able to/allow withdrawal of BTC. The fiat is probably tied up in the legal battle for quite some time. Fines for money laundering (even if not that intentionally) can also be rather high (its not the US where a big bank had to pay a 1.9 billion dollar fine, but still).

In any case bitcoin24 is dead, the admin in deep trouble, what he will do with the BTC is anyones guess now.

TL;DR version:
bitcoin24 ran a multi-million euro business
-without anyone having the technical competence to run such a big platform
-without any legal advice
All else follows logically from these two.


P.S.: Hindsight is of course cheap Sad




That sums it up pretty nicely. Cheers for the post.
Valerian77
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 05:36:09 PM
 #193

In that case - good luck for all having some fund stuck in bitcoin-24.  Sad

Bitmessage: BM-2cTHvwzzG3cDJxmM7YrYXSaBex4oRobJxu
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000


Gerald Davis


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 05:38:55 PM
 #194

In the US we try to uphold the idea of "innocent until proven guilty". Is that the same for these forums?

(very different from "trustworthy until proven untrustworthy," though!)

Nonsense innocent until proven guilty is just a quaint phrase and has no basis in law or in public opinion.  Governments routinely seize assets, put UNCONVICTED suspects in jail pending trial, wiretap phones, conduct surveilance, etc without anyone being convicted of anything.

The burden of proof for conviction is generally high but nobody is talking about a conviction here.  The operator's actions are highly questionable certainly rising to reasonable suspicion.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 05:56:30 PM
 #195

Just adding some information I collected in various threads and on reddit:

Bitcoin24 is pretty much dead, mainly for the second of two problems:

1) The admin/owner TAiS46 does not seem to have the necessary experience to run a big trading platform.

---------
---------
2) There are strict regulations in place for any bank/currency exchange/... operating in europe, to hinder

The big question is I guess now whether the administration asks him to freeze bitcoin assets also, and if not, whether he'll actually be able to/allow withdrawal of BTC. The fiat is probably tied up in the legal battle for quite some time. Fines for money laundering (even if not that intentionally) can also be rather high (its not the US where a big bank had to pay a 1.9 billion dollar fine, but still).

Thanks for that information. That is also what Ive been increasingly assuming over the last few days.

We don't know yet though how things will develop. He can probably get the exchange back online without too much hassle assuming he has people to help.

The problem with the bank accounts could be harder to crack. No useable bank account = no operating exchange possible. 

The only other alternative: pass the monies back to the customers.

But these options will only be possible if the account isnt permanently blocked because of the lack of proper bank compliance.

As for anyone suing him, that's completely useless in this situation.

If as seems the case, bank compliance regulations havent been followed and the bank suspects money laundering, they are bound by law to block business with the company or person concerned, and what's more, to report the matter to the authorities.

Trouble is when it comes to money laundering/money for terrorism suspicions, the authorities are paranoid and the standard procedure is to freeze all funds, so the innocent suffer as well as the guilty...

I only hope the outlook in reality is better than it looks right now.
michaelGedi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 250


"to be or not to be, that is the bitcoin"


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 05:58:25 PM
 #196

just in case anyone is feeling shit about their situation:


I invested/speculated at $235, the night before my birthday.

I considered selling at $268 the next day, didn't... watched crash, Bitstamp went down, no sale went through until $125.

Watched it go up again to about $175.


Eventually after watching some sites and having a think, noticed coins going for $60 on Bitstamp and selling for €55 on Bitcoin-24... made purchase, transferred coins, made some money back (erm...)


The rest is history  Shocked

TRADE FOREX, STOCKS AND COMMODITIES without the paperwork with Bitcoin: https://1broker.com/m/r.php?i=3589

1BROKER has been around since 2012 and is going strong
Amitabh S
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 05:59:55 PM
 #197

just in case anyone is feeling shit about their situation:


I invested/speculated at $235, the night before my birthday.

I considered selling at $268 the next day, didn't... watched crash, Bitstamp went down, no sale went through until $125.

Watched it go up again to about $175.


Eventually after watching some sites and having a think, noticed coins going for $60 on Bitstamp and selling for €55 on Bitcoin-24... made purchase, transferred coins, made some money back (erm...)


The rest is history  Shocked

How many coins?

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
darnth
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 19
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 06:18:23 PM
 #198


Trouble is when it comes to money laundering/money for terrorism suspicions, the authorities are paranoid and the standard procedure is to freeze all funds, so the innocent suffer as well as the guilty...

I only hope the outlook in reality is better than it looks right now.


Good point on the "money for terrorism". I personally find it ridiculous that its attached to "money laundering/ ..." in every official instance (big fish and 99.9999% are still just illegal non-terrorist business id guess), but thats the state we are at Sad, with all the resulting paranoia.

The problem for TAiS46 is probably that if there are even a few suspicious transactions (as the example he has given, money from hacked bank accounts being wired to his account to buy BTC), the only thing he can tell authorities is that his site made it disappear anonymously (not having used verification). So its hard to convince them he actually didnt have anything to do with it, and innocent until found guilty is a bit problematic in application if he is (probably) found in violation of regulations.

And yep, BTC wise, if he manages to sort out the multi-transactions (just some time/help) he should technically be able to send at least the majority of them back.
dscotese
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 446
Merit: 250


I prefer evolution to revolution.


View Profile WWW
April 15, 2013, 06:22:52 PM
 #199

In the US we try to uphold the idea of "innocent until proven guilty". Is that the same for these forums?

(very different from "trustworthy until proven untrustworthy," though!)

Nonsense innocent until proven guilty is just a quaint phrase and has no basis in law or in public opinion.  Governments routinely seize assets, put UNCONVICTED suspects in jail pending trial, wiretap phones, conduct surveilance, etc without anyone being convicted of anything.

The burden of proof for conviction is generally high but nobody is talking about a conviction here.  The operator's actions are highly questionable certainly rising to reasonable suspicion.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion
Quaint phrase?  Have a history lesson with Lysander Spooner: An Essay on the Trial By Jury

I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my valueAvoid supporting terrorism!
Satoshi Nakamoto: "He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules."
michaelGedi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 250


"to be or not to be, that is the bitcoin"


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 06:43:20 PM
 #200

Quote
How many coins?


6.37 at $235... so I guess not a lot by most of your standards.

BUT relatively speaking this was a fair chunk of money for me as I'm still a student.


I only have myself to blame but I thought it might be an interesting share for those who were a bit more careful with their money and still ended up in this situation.


It's all rather ridiculous really

TRADE FOREX, STOCKS AND COMMODITIES without the paperwork with Bitcoin: https://1broker.com/m/r.php?i=3589

1BROKER has been around since 2012 and is going strong
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 06:48:15 PM
 #201

Don't know if people are aware of this site, has some information about the situation with bitcoin24:

http://kuttler.eu/post/what-happened-bitcoin24/


EDIT: some further information to be found here: https://www.facebook.com/bitcoin.24/posts/622449231101962?comment_id=7172850

It rather corresponds with what darnth already said.
Aianis
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 20
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 08:36:31 PM
 #202

What I really hope right now is the following.

Simon has better legal resolution skills than Simon's programming and communication skills.

Of course, Simon in coupe with his lawyer and the rest of his team (about the first part).

I believe looking at the situation in a grim mood is not helping, so I try to keep positive.
anon24
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 08:40:21 PM
 #203

has anyone mentioned the hotwallet activity last night?

it was funded (465 BTC) by 1EhyE3zD47RcCMvGRcEaw83G7qBF6wUT54:
https://blockchain.info/tx/4b1f4714ae21662f3cd7e6d03d3f1f4f94eeff3c6ef460a7536f006e7d320d1d

then cleared out again over the course of about a minute!

has anyone affected received any BTC from the hotwallet?


1EhyE3zD47RcCMvGRcEaw83G7qBF6wUT54 has previously sent BTC to the hotwallet:
https://blockchain.info/tx/fb422bd519657214dbc17c809e9736c2ce139534d92678bc6d12bb1d06756338
https://blockchain.info/tx/7c7402c8366d3024a5d5617462cc76a8d325cc3cefff9710c0ec3f01d69ab37b

and also one of the cold wallets
https://blockchain.info/tx/832b8ed1ec37bd02346e7fd8868e6fac8dd7f53781ef48343eac22e7c79fb38b

13aLoc3ZgV5x7Vv5oE6QQpiS6ihQtZt6Bm
tempt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 289
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 10:10:24 PM
 #204

has anyone mentioned the hotwallet activity last night?

it was funded (435 BTC) by 1EhyE3zD47RcCMvGRcEaw83G7qBF6wUT54:
https://blockchain.info/tx/4b1f4714ae21662f3cd7e6d03d3f1f4f94eeff3c6ef460a7536f006e7d320d1d

then cleared out again over the course of about a minute!

has anyone affected received any BTC from the hotwallet?


1EhyE3zD47RcCMvGRcEaw83G7qBF6wUT54 has previously sent BTC to the hotwallet:
https://blockchain.info/tx/fb422bd519657214dbc17c809e9736c2ce139534d92678bc6d12bb1d06756338
https://blockchain.info/tx/7c7402c8366d3024a5d5617462cc76a8d325cc3cefff9710c0ec3f01d69ab37b

and also one of the cold wallets
https://blockchain.info/tx/832b8ed1ec37bd02346e7fd8868e6fac8dd7f53781ef48343eac22e7c79fb38b

That is indeed very strange. I have a eye on all the wallets and I did not understand that move at all. All I can guess is that it was some kind of automatic payment, because of course there is now money paid out that was falsely created by the bug. Also 450 BTC is not a tiny sum of money... To be exact at that time it was 45.000$. Fucking bad move, simon. Fucking bad move.

                ▄▄███████▄▄
              ▄█████████████▄
              ▀███▀▀   ▀▀█████▄
     ▄▄███████▄▄          ▀████▄
   ▄█████████████▄         █████
 ▄█████▀▀   ▀▀████         █████
▄████▀                    ▄████▀
█████         ▄███▄▄   ▄▄█████▀
█████         ▀█████████████▀
▀████▄          ▀▀███████▀▀
 ▀█████▄▄   ▄▄███▄
   ▀█████████████▀
     ▀▀███████▀▀
CAPDAX
.
   ██ ██
██████████▄
  ███   ▀███
  ███   ▄██▀
  ████████▄
  ███   ▀███
  ███   ▄███
██████████▀
   ██ ██
    ▄█▄
   ▄███▄
  ▄█████▄
 ▄███████▄
▀█████████▀
▄▄ ▀███▀ ▄▄
 ▀█▄▄ ▄▄█▀
   ▀███▀
     ▀
     ███
    ▐██▌
    ███ ▄
   ▐████▀
  ▄███▀
▄████
▀ ██▌
 ▐██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 ██████████▌
    █████████████▄
   ▐███████████████
               ████
 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄      ▐███▌
▄██████       ████
▀▀▀▀▀▀       ▐███▌
             ████
 ███████████████
▐█████████████▀
          ▄███▄
         ███████
  ▄▄▄    ███████
▄█████▄  ▄████▀
████████████▌
▀█████▀  ▀████▄
  ▀▀▀    ███████
         ███████
          ▀███▀
.
etc.
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
.
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
anon24
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 10:46:29 PM
 #205

yes i was under the assumption that the hotwallet would start paying out once it had funds (or a transaction from certain addresses?) but it's a bit disconcerting that there's been no announcement about it, and it's clearly going to need a LOT more input to clear all the pending withdrawals.

looks like the rollbacks have been done though:
so perhaps btc can start moving out?

13aLoc3ZgV5x7Vv5oE6QQpiS6ihQtZt6Bm
Newscastix
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 11:08:17 PM
 #206

The owner is on IRC right now answering questions.

Here is a log on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cf6jy/update_bitcoin24_users_will_most_likely_be_able/
MegaBrutal
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 60
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 15, 2013, 11:53:20 PM
 #207

the coins I had on btc24 were moved from my deposit address !!!!
any one else knows about this?

Mine too - though several hours later than yours. (I've read your post in the morning and back then my money were not moved yet.)

My funds were transferred to this address:
https://blockchain.info/address/1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26

This is huge... Maybe this address collects all the funds deposited. "Total Received    393,790.81050737 BTC"

Something's happening...

BTC: 18nAftZTnH4LjY9fPPow1aF5tGD1JiF7ZH
LTC: LV9MiA3iPVUm8qRFYbLkARuoYwvmHwhWaC

Buy some Negro candies!
anon24
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 12:18:35 AM
 #208

the coins I had on btc24 were moved from my deposit address !!!!
any one else knows about this?

Mine too - though several hours later than yours. (I've read your post in the morning and back then my money were not moved yet.)

My funds were transferred to this address:
https://blockchain.info/address/1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26

This is huge... Maybe this address collects all the funds deposited. "Total Received    393,790.81050737 BTC"

Something's happening...

that's the cold storage address, he keeps funds there for security and shifts them to the hot wallet (https://blockchain.info/address/1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71) where they are sent out for withdrawals. the hotwallet is currently empty so no withdrawals can be made. but in that IRC log just posted he said he is aiming to bring the site back up in part with just a withdraw BTC function. perhaps he is consolidating all coins from various accounts into one place for now and will move funds into the hotwallet in preparation for the rush of withdrawals.

13aLoc3ZgV5x7Vv5oE6QQpiS6ihQtZt6Bm
dscotese
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 446
Merit: 250


I prefer evolution to revolution.


View Profile WWW
April 16, 2013, 12:37:35 AM
 #209

I believe people ask too many questions and don't provide enough information.  Simon is one guy, and I'm worried that important information he should know is getting lost among all the questions in his honest good faith efforts to do the right thing.  There are two important things that he might not know about:
1) Some transactions probably have put extra bitcoins into the hands of some dishonest members.  The status page currently says "All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account." - which seems to apply only to fiat.  The same logic could be applied as a rough approximation of what should happen, but it would be better to identify and unwind duplicate trades - and even audit the last couple days of trades - before sending anyone bitcoin.
2) There is a phishing site trying to take advantage of our problems (the one with the same domain, but with the X at the end).

If anyone has proof that he's aware of these things, please share it.  If anyone shares my concern that he isn't, let's work together to make a highly visible single message rather than several individual attempts.  I suggest copying the link to this comment and labelling the link "2 things from Scotese".  Then he only has to read it once.

If anyone has a name he'd recognize and respect more than mine (he has no idea who I am), let me know and I'll edit this post to use your name instead so he's more likely to check it out.

I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my valueAvoid supporting terrorism!
Satoshi Nakamoto: "He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules."
michaelGedi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 250


"to be or not to be, that is the bitcoin"


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 01:04:21 AM
 #210


Quote
If anyone has proof that he's aware of these things, please share it.

see:

Quote
The owner is on IRC right now answering questions.

Here is a log on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cf6jy/update_bitcoin24_users_will_most_likely_be_able/


IRC LOG HERE:

http://area404.nl/irc/%23bitcoin24/2013-04-16.html


In the chat he says he has rolled back the transactions in the trading engine, and also says he will reset everyones password due to the phishing...


Shame that there isn't a clear cut solid single line of communication, but that's how it is...


things are looking better, not 100% positive but better - I won't summarise the IRC chat for you as it took me ages to read it but just expect developments in the next few days

TRADE FOREX, STOCKS AND COMMODITIES without the paperwork with Bitcoin: https://1broker.com/m/r.php?i=3589

1BROKER has been around since 2012 and is going strong
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 04:36:48 AM
 #211

A website has been set up as a central point to help people affected by the bitcoin24 closure.

I found this site via a link on the kuttler.eu site.

Far as I can see this appears to be a genuine self help site, not any phishing attempt, but use at your own risk.

http://btc24-help.com/

the site is in english and german.

It should be clear to everyone, but just to be sure:

do not email any user names or passwords, including on any screenshots or pdfs etc that you might send to anyone.

Also beware of shysters setting up bogus "bitcoin-24" sites which look the same but which have slightly different URL names, eg bitcoin24.co or bitcoin24x.com, bit-coin24.com, etc etc.

Before you enter any logins into any bitcoin24 type sites, check the URL address in the browser before doing so. Don't just look at the logos on the screen.

Simon should himself be warning people about this.

Also I think he should be putting his "updates"  on his bitcoin24 site and only on the bitcoin24 site, instead of scattered around on reddit or IRC.

All this stuff on reddit etc remains indexed by Google for posterity which isn't good for his business name.

If it was on his own site, he can delete it after the crisis (assuming there is an after...)
Aianis
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 20
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 06:16:14 AM
 #212

If they would post their own names and nicknames on btc24, reddit and here - at least that would be an indication that everything is real.

And best of all - if there would be an announcement topic here by a reputable user. Then all curtains would fall immediately.

But as of yet, I'm considering...
klee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484
Merit: 1000



View Profile
April 16, 2013, 07:03:20 AM
 #213


Quote
If anyone has proof that he's aware of these things, please share it.

see:

Quote
The owner is on IRC right now answering questions.

Here is a log on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cf6jy/update_bitcoin24_users_will_most_likely_be_able/


IRC LOG HERE:

http://area404.nl/irc/%23bitcoin24/2013-04-16.html


In the chat he says he has rolled back the transactions in the trading engine, and also says he will reset everyones password due to the phishing...


Shame that there isn't a clear cut solid single line of communication, but that's how it is...


things are looking better, not 100% positive but better - I won't summarise the IRC chat for you as it took me ages to read it but just expect developments in the next few days

[00:38:40] <zewelor> TAiS46: what about transactions before turning off webist ? If i sold my btc there were sold or not ? I got 3x euro for that trade, does it mean i still have that bitcoins, or i have sold them and got correct euro amount ?
...
[00:39:34] <TAiS46> zewelor: they will be canceled and are restored.

So does this mean that I never really sold my BTCs?? And I will be able to withdraw bitcoins without worrying if the bank accounts will be unfrozen? What do you people understand?

(I am not zewelor btw)..

EDIT:

[00:40:36] <guidebook> TAiS46: I received a SEPA withdrawal confirmation email on April 4 but I haven't received the money. Is the money safe?
...
[00:42:19] <TAiS46> guidebook: the money is safe and I know wich transactions are not leaving the bank account! they will be reset!
bitbadger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 07:04:51 AM
 #214

If they would post their own names and nicknames on btc24, reddit and here - at least that would be an indication that everything is real.

And best of all - if there would be an announcement topic here by a reputable user. Then all curtains would fall immediately.

But as of yet, I'm considering...
Best thing of all would be proper announcements on the bitcoin24 site itself, not on all these other sites.

That would be the proper way to do it.
Booooooo
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 118
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 08:24:10 AM
 #215

Hi
I can't understand 2 things:
1)What does the bank issue has to do with the trade engine bug....as I saw the site was put offline as soon (I hope the fastest possible) someone make the bug notice in the site chat but then the comes out the message informing us "The Polish authority closed our Bank account in Poland" "All funds are safe." etc. I mean no reference to the trade engine bug and if "all bitcoin" are safe....

2)why isn't given the possibility for those no have been effected by the trading engine bug (I figure and I hope there will be many! for example those not having made a trade let say from the day before) to bring the btc out of this shit....

darnth
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 19
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 08:33:46 AM
 #216

Hi
I can't understand 2 things:
1)What does the bank issue has to do with the trade engine bug....as I saw the site was put offline as soon (I hope the fastest possible) someone make the bug notice in the site chat but then the comes out the message informing us "The Polish authority closed our Bank account in Poland" "All funds are safe." etc. I mean no reference to the trade engine bug and if "all bitcoin" are safe....
To my best knowledge, the address for international deposits changed ~a day before the trading engine problem became obvious, so there isnt necessarily a direct connection. Both (bug becoming evident and administration starting investigation) might have be triggered by the large amount of transactions on the day of the boom, though.

Quote
2)why isn't given the possibility for those no have been effected by the trading engine bug (I figure and I hope there will be many! for example those not having made a trade let say from the day before) to bring the btc out of this shit....

Admin says he is working on that.
600watt
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1694
Merit: 1041


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 11:29:27 AM
 #217

I don't think he is a scam.I think he is a good kid and anextremely bad professional
Nevertheless what everybody thinks is not relevant.Acts and results matter.
After a really shitty day(invested heavily on gold) i cooled down and went in philosophic mode:
We all are pioneers in sthg brand new.And as such, extreme caution is needed regardless the rush a quick profit creates in our head.(i sent money cause the Ask was low and i could make an extra buck Tongue  )
This is trading a new currency guys and bad things  happen even with big regulated firms:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/libor-the-largest-insider-trading-scandal-ever/31818
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/12/us-broker-pfgbest-cftc-idUSBRE86B1B320120712
http://www.ft.com/indepth/ubs-rogue-trading-scandal
and these are examples of the past year

Don't get me wrong,i want my money and i will do more than i can to get them back....
..but this is a part of The Game
Bite the bullet and get your shit together.That goes to you too Simon


better an honest amateur than a stealing professional...

i got 70 btc on my btc24 account. i have the feeling it will be resolved. die hoffnung stirbt zuletzt... (hope dies at the very end only)

kojo23
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 6
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 01:46:07 PM
 #218

Hey guys,
are there any updates yet?

In this reddit post:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9fu5yd?context=3

He wrote that the lawyer of Mt. Gox in Poland supports him. Can anybody confirm this?
michaelGedi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 250


"to be or not to be, that is the bitcoin"


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 05:19:16 PM
 #219

anyone tried the site yet?   
Quote


I'm too uneducated to click on in case my computer blows up

(I do have adblocker, is that enough?)

TRADE FOREX, STOCKS AND COMMODITIES without the paperwork with Bitcoin: https://1broker.com/m/r.php?i=3589

1BROKER has been around since 2012 and is going strong
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000


Gerald Davis


View Profile
April 16, 2013, 05:35:52 PM
 #220

anyone tried the site yet?   
Quote


I'm too uneducated to click on in case my computer blows up

(I do have adblocker, is that enough?)

I didn't see anything malicious.  It is a very basic site.  Has some info on the situation but not much.

If