Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Miz4r]

Mervyn, Are you saying bitcoin doesn't create wealth?

Yes, exactly! Bitcoin doesn't even aim to create wealth. It aims to store and transfer wealth, but because of it's overly simplistic financial properties, it fails to succeed in it's goals. Without a mechanism to keep stable unit value, bitcoin is a gimmick of an currency, that is more of an innovative gambling platform, then a serious financial tool.

Gold has no mechanism to keep it stable either and still is pretty useful for storing wealth. Bitcoin is the same but also is very useful for transferring wealth as well. Once Bitcoin is used widespread then that becomes its own mechanism for stability.

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[600watt]

Mervyn, Are you saying bitcoin doesn't create wealth?

Yes, exactly! Bitcoin doesn't even aim to create wealth. It aims to store and transfer wealth, but because of it's overly simplistic financial properties, it fails to succeed in it's goals. Without a mechanism to keep stable unit value, bitcoin is a gimmick of an currency, that is more of an innovative gambling platform, then a serious financial tool.

Why do you bother with it then?

because he is on a payroll. I wonder if they get paid per post or monthly. and some bonus if price really tanks...
credit cards, banks... the old powers will not just sit and watch btc succeeding.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Zohann]

.... I'm here for the gang bang.

[ShroomsKit]

Mervyn, Are you saying bitcoin doesn't create wealth?

Yes, exactly! Bitcoin doesn't even aim to create wealth. It aims to store and transfer wealth, but because of it's overly simplistic financial properties, it fails to succeed in it's goals. Without a mechanism to keep stable unit value, bitcoin is a gimmick of an currency, that is more of an innovative gambling platform, then a serious financial tool.

Why do you bother with it then?

because he is on a payroll. I wonder if they get paid per post or monthly. and some bonus if price really tanks...
credit cards, banks... the old powers will not just sit and watch btc succeeding.

The banks and cc companies have enough money to fuck up the market completely. They would hardly even notice it.
They're not gonna spend a few 100 here and there for some trolls to make Bitcoin fail. Get real.

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

Mervyn, Are you saying bitcoin doesn't create wealth?

Yes, exactly! Bitcoin doesn't even aim to create wealth. It aims to store and transfer wealth, but because of it's overly simplistic financial properties, it fails to succeed in it's goals. Without a mechanism to keep stable unit value, bitcoin is a gimmick of an currency, that is more of an innovative gambling platform, then a serious financial tool.

Gold has no mechanism to keep it stable either and still is pretty useful for storing wealth. Bitcoin is the same but also is very useful for transferring wealth as well. Once Bitcoin is used widespread then that becomes its own mechanism for stability.

Unlike bitcoin, gold has practical application besides storing and transferring wealth.
And I agree that a big part of gold's value is highly unstable and based on speculation. And that is the reason why gold isn't very practical to be tied with currencies. When a currency is weak against speculative play, then the rich elite have more power, because then, the more wealth you have, the more power you have.

The current generation that gets it's knowledge on youtube propaganda... It's the reason why so many people think that a gold tied currency is actually a good thing. The uneducated youtube generation are the drones who help to keep the crooks in power.

[FNG]

Mervyn, Are you saying bitcoin doesn't create wealth?

Yes, exactly! Bitcoin doesn't even aim to create wealth. It aims to store and transfer wealth, but because of it's overly simplistic financial properties, it fails to succeed in it's goals. Without a mechanism to keep stable unit value, bitcoin is a gimmick of an currency, that is more of an innovative gambling platform, then a serious financial tool.

Why do you bother with it then?

I like the idea that it is based on and I think that we'll see some interesting developments based on that idea.
To me, worshipping bitcoin is like worshipping macintosh 128k and thinking that it will be the future. The idea has potential, not the present simplistic models. Worshipping bitcoin is based on the assumption that technology isn't constantly evolving, but about stagnation. It's the mentality of the get rich quick folks who are afraid on development and they wish that the world would be as static as their own intellectual development.

I don't think you understand software, networks, the network effect, or protocols very well.

We're not dealing with hardware here, this is software, both the core protocol and the network are bitcoin. If some ground breaking code is written that threatens our network, the core protocol can adapt. Bitcoin will remain live and well because it's participants are bitcoin and we have billions of reasons to stay, very little reason to leave en masse.

Bitcoin is fluid if need be but it is the layers that are built on top of the protocol that will make it a success. Why build out on top of a protocol with an inferior network when the bitcoin protocol is all you need.

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

Mervyn, Are you saying bitcoin doesn't create wealth?

Yes, exactly! Bitcoin doesn't even aim to create wealth. It aims to store and transfer wealth, but because of it's overly simplistic financial properties, it fails to succeed in it's goals. Without a mechanism to keep stable unit value, bitcoin is a gimmick of an currency, that is more of an innovative gambling platform, then a serious financial tool.

Why do you bother with it then?

I like the idea that it is based on and I think that we'll see some interesting developments based on that idea.
To me, worshipping bitcoin is like worshipping macintosh 128k and thinking that it will be the future. The idea has potential, not the present simplistic models. Worshipping bitcoin is based on the assumption that technology isn't constantly evolving, but about stagnation. It's the mentality of the get rich quick folks who are afraid on development and they wish that the world would be as static as their own intellectual development.

I don't think you understand software, networks, the network effect, or protocols very well.

We're not dealing with hardware here, this is software, both the core protocol and the network are bitcoin. If some ground breaking code is written that threatens our network, the core protocol can adapt. Bitcoin will remain live and well because it's participants are bitcoin and we have billions of reasons to stay, very little reason to leave en masse.

Bitcoin is fluid if need be but it is the layers that are built on top of the protocol that will make it a success. Why build out on top of a protocol with an inferior network when the bitcoin protocol is all you need.

The network effect applies to carbonated soft drinks and social networking sites, where it's customers don't care about the quality of the product, but just use what they're used to use. Financial services don't work like that.

Bitcoin and it's ledger isn't a protocol. It's a specific brand of product. The bitcoin source could be defined as a protocol, but you could even do that only if you close your eyes long enough. E-mail is a protocol, and unlike bitcoin, the later adopter don't have to pay the earlier adopters to use this protocol. Bitcoin is more of an pyramid scheme then a protocol, but I don't even consider it as a pyramid scheme, but I see it more like an gambling platform.

Anyway.. keep worshipping bitcoin if it's important to you. If you look at my post history, then you can see that I have talked about all of this too many times. Explaining that bitcoin is just a single step in this new evolution of finance, is like explaining scientologists, that their ideology is a fairy tale.

[JorgeStolfi]

I don t see much "Wall Street type" capital going into bitcoin per se. Most of the news that are claimed to be about it are actually about investment in businesses that make sure money from other people moving bitcoin -- like BitPay, exchanges, software and hardware,  fund management, etc.  Funds like SMBIT do not invest in bitcoin, they act as intermediaries for their clients, who are the ones actually investing in bitcoin. 

One example of direct bitcoin investment that I knew was the Fortress investment group (not to be confused with the exchange TradeFortress).  But after bitcoin gave them a red stain in their quarterly report, they quietly swapped their bitcoins for shares of Pantera, the company that manages the PBP bitcoin-backed fund -- which will make money even if the price of bitcoin were to fall further.

Are there other examples of companies making a direct investment in bitcoins since December?

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

Unlike bitcoin, gold has practical application besides storing and transferring wealth.

So how do you call being able to formalise a contract without trust or third parties involved? A public ledger that anyone can use to vote where no one can lie or cheat the system?

Bitcoin can be the money of the internet and a store of wealth but it has a lots of practical applications too. If you are only seeing the currency side of Bitcoin you are missing a lot of potential.

Without trust? Are you kidding?
With bitcoin, you have to trust a bunch of anonymous people with a criminal past, to keep the unit value. Bitcoin is even more dependant of trust then fiat.

[adamstgBit]

Unlike bitcoin, gold has practical application besides storing and transferring wealth.

So how do you call being able to formalise a contract without trust or third parties involved? A public ledger that anyone can use to vote where no one can lie or cheat the system?

Bitcoin can be the money of the internet and a store of wealth but it has a lots of practical applications too. If you are only seeing the currency side of Bitcoin you are missing a lot of potential.

Without trust? Are you kidding?
With bitcoin, you have to trust a bunch of anonymous people with a criminal past, to keep the unit value. Bitcoin is even more dependant of trust then fiat.

bitcoin is a living breathing machine, with built-in insensitive and rules, it traps humans into doing its bidding, and ensures its survival & flourishing

[aminorex]

wall st isnt there yet...

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-06-27/trade-of-the-day-buy-a-bitcoin

... wall st may start to get in to manipulate...

Oh. You are one of those. Nevermind then.

[aminorex]

C'mon people.  Quoting Mervyn_Pumpkinhead is really destroying this thread.  Cut that out.

[altsay]

Mervyn, Are you saying bitcoin doesn't create wealth?

Yes, exactly! Bitcoin doesn't even aim to create wealth. It aims to store and transfer wealth, but because of it's overly simplistic financial properties, it fails to succeed in it's goals. Without a mechanism to keep stable unit value, bitcoin is a gimmick of an currency, that is more of an innovative gambling platform, then a serious financial tool.

Why do you bother with it then?

I like the idea that it is based on and I think that we'll see some interesting developments based on that idea.
To me, worshipping bitcoin is like worshipping macintosh 128k and thinking that it will be the future. The idea has potential, not the present simplistic models. Worshipping bitcoin is based on the assumption that technology isn't constantly evolving, but about stagnation. It's the mentality of the get rich quick folks who are afraid on development and they wish that the world would be as static as their own intellectual development.

This.

Always keep one of your eyes on alternative cryptos that offer innovation.

[ChrisML]

$600 on BTCE and stamp.

Panic BUY yall!

[shields]

Meanwhile stamp broke 600, up to 603.

[magicmexican]

When can i start posting trains, 610 or 620?

[adamstgBit]

$600 on BTCE and stamp.

Panic BUY yall!

btc-e is over 600?

i was waiting for that

time to buy up virtex!

[aminorex]

Always keep one of your eyes on alternative cryptos that offer innovation.

While many p2p protocols are useful, cramming every app into a freaking currency is asinine.

To be good enough as a currency to compete for the monopoly position of liquidity provider requires a laser focus on that specific end.  Any added functions create a tax on the economy of the whole market.  Liquidity abhors friction.

There are other far better, far more efficient, far more honest ways to incentivize the maintenance of a block chain for your bittorrent or twitter or whatever.

Any " innovations" that amount to embedding a tiny little lobotomized robotic Ben Bernanke into every computer on the Internet are quite unlikely to add any value.  Like lifetime of the universe unlikely.

You aren't going to improve chopsticks. You aren't going to improve the core function of liquidity - just make it efficiently usable.  Any " innovation" that makes it less efficiently usable is a SCAM.

[Krabby]

$600 on BTCE and stamp.

Panic BUY yall!

btc-e is over 600?

i was waiting for that

time to buy up virtex!

The orderbook is like non-existent.
Are 90% of them are your orders?