Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[tarmi]

The bid sum on Bitstamp reached (for a short time, it recovered a bit) the lowest point of this year, at just above 3 M$.
I noticed a discrepancy between the evolution of bids on Bitstamp and on Chinese exchanges, and I believe that
Chinese coins have been dumped for months. If it's westerners returning profits from China or new coins mined in China
and used for capital transfer, I can't tell, but the effect is the same.

agreed.

[1715171470]

1715171470

[1715171470]

1715171470

[AmazonStuff]

I was bear enough, but bear market is at it's end, we have a double bottom, 10 months of bear market, bunch of good news and technical indicators screaming divergence and I changed into bull, big one PayPal acceptance is a game changer, other companies will say if PayPal accepted BTC we should too, they will not fear BTC as they were frightened before, you will see BTC more in media, you will probably see BTC everywhere, just as you see Coca-Cola logo everywhere.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JayJuanGee]

...

Check edit and buy food from vendors that accept btc directly, those that use payment processors are supporting a competing economy

I have some mixed feelings about these points.  I understand the point that you are making and I agree that if you know that the business is holding BTC, then they would be the preferred business to patronize.   


However, I tend to believe that anyone taking BTC is a good thing, and surely, we should also be sympathetic to the businesses using payment processors (and really we do NOT have any meaningful way to verify the extent to which the payment processor businesses are directly converting or holding some percentage).  We should, if we can, be inclined to replace any BTC that we spend, anyhow.

Another ongoing issue remains the tax treatments to use BTC as a form of currency... which is bullshit to have this accounting disincentive hanging over our heads.... Currently, I am trying to get around this (put this off) by simultaneously (within a week or so) replacing any BTC that I spend, and that way I can claim that there was NO capital gains or loss (makes for easier accounting for me, so far).   Now, down the road, if I begin to make some substantial purchases that also include capital gains, then I will NEED to account for such gains in my projected IRS filings for the year.

[lemonte]

Anyone mind updating me on what happened?
When I went to bed there was a really healthy bid wall at $420 was it pulled?

[mooncake]

I was bear enough, but bear market is at it's end, we have a double bottom, 10 months of bear market, bunch of good news and technical indicators screaming divergence and I changed into bull, big one PayPal acceptance is a game changer, other companies will say if PayPal accepted BTC we should too, they will not fear BTC as they were frightened before, you will see BTC more in media, you will probably see BTC everywhere, just as you see Coca-Cola logo everywhere.

Good! You are not a sheep.

[tarmi]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

[AmazonStuff]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

Well, I don't think that way, I am aware of that, but PayPal was probably the biggest obstacle to BTC acceptance and I don't see PayPal as a merchant, I see them as one of the biggest internet financial companies. You know what happened before to PayPal users who used BTC? Their accounts were blocked. I think that PayPal BTC acceptance will have more influence then merchant selling pressure. I mean more acceptance means more users, more users means more money. Only way I see this latest PayPal news is like PayPal saying we must work with BTC or we are doomed. If they are aware of that, can you imagine where BTC is going?

[Tzupy]

gnu bash vulnerability fear mongering going on /r/bitcoin, be safe do your research.

what does it mean?

It means that exchanges can be hacked (if they weren't already) using this exploit, until they patch the affected systems.
http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/09/bug-in-bash-shell-creates-big-security-hole-on-anything-with-nix-in-it/

[tarmi]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

I think that PayPal BTC acceptance will have more influence then merchant selling pressure.

maybe 2 years ago.

now I simply dont care because they are so late to the party.

[JayJuanGee]

...

Check edit and buy food from vendors that accept btc directly, those that use payment processors are supporting a competing economy

I have some mixed feelings about these points.  I understand the point that you are making and I agree that if you know that the business is holding BTC, then they would be the preferred business to patronize.  


However, I tend to believe that anyone taking BTC is a good thing, and surely, we should also be sympathetic to the businesses using payment processors (and really we do NOT have any meaningful way to verify the extent to which the payment processor businesses are directly converting or holding some percentage).  We should, if we can, be inclined to replace any BTC that we spend, anyhow.

Another ongoing issue remains the tax treatments to use BTC as a form of currency... which is bullshit to have this accounting disincentive hanging over our heads.... Currently, I am trying to get around this (put this off) by simultaneously (within a week or so) replacing any BTC that I spend, and that way I can claim that there was NO capital gains or loss (makes for easier accounting for me, so far).   Now, down the road, if I begin to make some substantial purchases that also include capital gains, then I will NEED to account for such gains in my projected IRS filings for the year.

Maybe consider residence in Germany if you're likely to be badly stung with that one, they stated funds from addresses that haven't moved for more than a year are tax-free. No idea how long that will last, they had the same opening on precious metals but changed it fairly recently.

+1 on the more accepting btc the better and accepting via a payment processor is far better than not accepting, the spending drive gets to me is all, "spend, spend, spend" sounds a lot like the "waste, waste, waste" of perpetual "growth".

I have some business issues in the US of A that I am trying to get in order - otherwise I am considering various ways to become location independent.  Currently, I am attracted to south east asia, more than europe - and part of my thinking is that I can live a lot better on a lot less (accordingly, live well within my means, and continue to accumulate wealth with a mostly passive income).  Potentially, later in life, I will be able to travel and live in more expensive areas...... Well, anyhow, this is more of a work of progress than anything set in stone...

Further, I am anticipating that there are going to be a lot of ongoing wishy-washy developments and adjustments when it comes to various tax treatments of BTC... from what I understand, Americans traveling abroad would NOT be required to count the gains of their spent BTC, so long as those BTC are spent overseas.

Regarding number of merchants, the more the better, and regarding spending, there are a lot of mixed blessings about that, and the USA, as most of us already realize, has one of the worst spending records - and some of the american consumerism habits are spreading to other areas around the world... NO simple solutions there when it comes to inequality and wasteful spending while some people are barely able to scratch by meager livings others are living wastefully high on the hog.  Seems to be a topic beyond the scope of this thread (though this thread seems to be fairly tolerant of a variety of topics so long as they are anywhere remotely connected to BTC walls - and even then... ooofffffta...).   

[JayJuanGee]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

I think that PayPal BTC acceptance will have more influence then merchant selling pressure.

maybe 2 years ago.

now I simply dont care because they are so late to the party. 

That's because you, Tarmi, seem to have a fairly robust predilection to take any news, good, bad or other, and to translate it into "BTC bear logic" 

[tarmi]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

I think that PayPal BTC acceptance will have more influence then merchant selling pressure.

maybe 2 years ago.

now I simply dont care because they are so late to the party.  

That's because you, Tarmi, seem to have a fairly robust predilection to take any news, good, bad or other, and to translate it into "BTC bear logic"  

really?  

sorry for asking, but why would I ever want to spend my BTC and pay all the fees to paypal? isn't the whole point of BTC to avoid charges? add to paypal fees the ones for USD/BTC conversion.

all I see in paypal accepting btc is selling/redistribution of old cheap coins.

[AmazonStuff]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

I think that PayPal BTC acceptance will have more influence then merchant selling pressure.

maybe 2 years ago.

now I simply dont care because they are so late to the party.  

That's because you, Tarmi, seem to have a fairly robust predilection to take any news, good, bad or other, and to translate it into "BTC bear logic"  

really?  

sorry for asking, but why would I ever want to spend my BTC and pay all the fees to paypal? isn't the whole point of BTC to avoid charges? add to that the fees for USD/BTC conversion.

all I see in paypal accepting btc is selling/redistribution of old cheap coins.

It will happen you are right, there will be selling pressure, but also what will happen is more people coming into out small community of BTC users at much faster pace, which will have more influence than selling pressure. More people without BTC who will buy BTC just because PayPay said they should not fear of BTC. PayPal is something like internet religion, I think that there is a huge army of people who only watch PayPal moves and plan their strategy according to that. When PayPal adds new option there is a huge number of people who just want to try the new option, now when BTC is a new PayPal option, get ready for the revolution.

[tarmi]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

I think that PayPal BTC acceptance will have more influence then merchant selling pressure.

maybe 2 years ago.

now I simply dont care because they are so late to the party.  

That's because you, Tarmi, seem to have a fairly robust predilection to take any news, good, bad or other, and to translate it into "BTC bear logic"  

really?  

sorry for asking, but why would I ever want to spend my BTC and pay all the fees to paypal? isn't the whole point of BTC to avoid charges? add to that the fees for USD/BTC conversion.

all I see in paypal accepting btc is selling/redistribution of old cheap coins.

It will happen you are right, there will be selling pressure, but also what will happen is more people coming into out small community of BTC users at much faster pace, which will have more influence than selling pressure. More people without BTC who will buy BTC just because PayPay said they should not fear of BTC. PayPal is something like internet religion, I think that there is a huge army of people who only watch PayPal moves and plan their strategy according to that. When PayPal adds new option there is a huge number of people who just want to try the new option, now when BTC is a new PayPal option, get ready for the revolution.

paypal is internet religion?

doubt it.

[AmazonStuff]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

I think that PayPal BTC acceptance will have more influence then merchant selling pressure.

maybe 2 years ago.

now I simply dont care because they are so late to the party.  

That's because you, Tarmi, seem to have a fairly robust predilection to take any news, good, bad or other, and to translate it into "BTC bear logic"  

really?  

sorry for asking, but why would I ever want to spend my BTC and pay all the fees to paypal? isn't the whole point of BTC to avoid charges? add to that the fees for USD/BTC conversion.

all I see in paypal accepting btc is selling/redistribution of old cheap coins.

It will happen you are right, there will be selling pressure, but also what will happen is more people coming into out small community of BTC users at much faster pace, which will have more influence than selling pressure. More people without BTC who will buy BTC just because PayPay said they should not fear of BTC. PayPal is something like internet religion, I think that there is a huge army of people who only watch PayPal moves and plan their strategy according to that. When PayPal adds new option there is a huge number of people who just want to try the new option, now when BTC is a new PayPal option, get ready for the revolution.

paypal is internet religion?

doubt it.

It's not for me, but before BTC I got kicked from one forum because I did not offer photographic equipment for PayPal, believe it or not

[Blue]

cut your looses before its too latex !!

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[itod]

Explanation

[MrPiggles]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

Paypal is bigger than that, if they offer bitcoin as a payment method to their customers, unless they're only one way (which I doubt) they'd need to keep them on hand for their customers to both pay with and receive.

It wouldn't be like dell dumping it all on bitpay, paypal would need a certain amount of btc in their reserve