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Question: Dec. 14 Closing Price:
<$6,000 - 10 (11.4%)
$6,000-$6,500 - 5 (5.7%)
$6,500-$7,000 - 9 (10.2%)
$7,000-$7,500 - 11 (12.5%)
$7,500-$8,000 - 18 (20.5%)
$8,000-$8,500 - 11 (12.5%)
$8,500-$9,000 - 4 (4.5%)
>$9,000 - 20 (22.7%)
Total Voters: 88

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21457108 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (137 posts by 31 users deleted.)
Erdogan
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March 22, 2015, 12:48:04 AM

Hm... I dont know. I guess repeating "you're full of shit" would be a less classy way to say that... though you could say I'm curious to see what claim he will say counts as evidence/proof of what he said to be true.
Most of what he says in response can be summed up to "hard fork here, hard fork there, poof! Magic!", so I guess I should stop.

Just go ahead, take it as a practise in forming your arguments against the ten or so common misunderstandings about bitcoin. Just do it for you, and when you are satisfied, ignore him. He is a troll.
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March 22, 2015, 12:59:03 AM

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criptix
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March 22, 2015, 01:12:57 AM

I don't know what you mean by "pegged".

i mean the way you evaluate what wealth is. you explain it as the sum of your properties/possessions.
so my interpretation of wealth pegged to real products shouldnt be far off or did i misunderstood you?
 
To a first approximation, if the dollar lost 90% of its value tomorrow, the US would not become significantly poorer.  Everybody woudl still own the same homes and cars and tamagochis, the same bridges and roads would still be there,  barbers and doctors would still serve as many patients as before.  By hypothesis, all prices would go up 10 times, and thus all salaries and fees would have to do the same.  (In the countries with hyperinflation, most people manageto survive somehow).

i agree that all properties in fact dont change in value and everyone with real estate etc will be on the better side.
but the problem starts when you are using the currency itself especially in foreign trading/importing international goods.
everything becomes 10x more expensive. ergo you are losing your wealth. (most people living on earth manage to survive somehow)

Such a massive devaluation would have plenty of secondary bad effects, for sure.  There would be all sorts of financial disasters due to contracts with fixed payments in the future, dollars held by or owed to foreign parties, etc.. People would need to carry and use a lot more banknotes when paying in cash.  The devaluation presumably would be due to massive emission of new currency by the government, which would result in wealth being taken from citizens, as a form of global tax on money holdings and unindexed credits.  It is these secondary effects that make high inflation and hyperinflation so bad.

But it is precisely because of the possibility of inflation, money printing, and wild excursions in currency exchange rates that one should ignore the money when evaluating a nation's wealth, and focus only on actual things and services.

Of course, central banks and economists who are interested in the money itself, rather than real wealth, will have a different approach.

of course it would make alot of sense, but the world just doesnt work like this.
governments and their money policies just scream for it just in different volumes.
what you perceive as wealth can be taken from you any moment - not sure if you can call that real wealth
JorgeStolfi
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March 22, 2015, 01:43:42 AM

I don't know what you mean by "pegged".
i mean the way you evaluate what wealth is. you explain it as the sum of your properties/possessions.
so my interpretation of wealth pegged to real products shouldnt be far off or did i misunderstood you?

I would rather say that wealth *is* real properties/posessions (including some "virtual goods" like copyrights, but let's ignore them forsimplicity), and services one uses.  Money is only tokens that can be exchanged for real wealth.  Money can be counted as real wealth for some purposes (e.g. estimating the wealth of a person or company), but should be ignored for other purposes (wealth ofa country).
  
i agree that all properties in fact dont change in value and everyone with real estate etc will be on the better side.
but the problem starts when you are using the currency itself especially in foreign trading/importing international goods.
everything becomes 10x more expensive. ergo you are losing your wealth. (most people living on earth manage to survive somehow)

Yes, I tried to mention that -- foreign trade is one area where currency devaluation obviously has large impact.  But that is only if inernal salaries and prices are not properly adjusted.  The loss you mention is actually due to the government taking away some of the citizen's wealth, by issuing more money.

Quote
But it is precisely because of the possibility of inflation, money printing, and wild excursions in currency exchange rates that one should ignore the money when evaluating a nation's wealth, and focus only on actual things and services.

of course it would make alot of sense, but the world just doesnt work like this.
governments and their money policies just scream for it just in different volumes.
what you perceive as wealth can be taken from you any moment - not sure if you can call that real wealth

Yes, discussions about national and international economy often seem to consider money as wealth, or are ambiguous/confused about that point.

I would think that the question of what is "real wealth" and what is just tokens that stand for real wealth does not depend on whether the government can seize it or not.  For me, "real" does not imply "permanent".  The government can seize your bank account, your car, your bitcoins, your copyrights.  That is just one of many ways in which you can lose your real wealth, or your tokens.   Your cow may die, your library may burn down, your car may be stolen...

In fact, I think that the desire for "permanent wealth", that cannot be lost or lose its value, is as naive as the desire for eternal youth or eternal life...
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March 22, 2015, 01:50:02 AM

come on bears send your USD to bitfinex 30% APR help us delusional longs and get more USD in the process  Cool
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March 22, 2015, 01:59:06 AM

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camolist
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March 22, 2015, 02:14:57 AM

500 bid at 260 400 sale at 260.06 who will win  Huh
DaRude
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March 22, 2015, 02:41:58 AM

500 bid at 260 400 sale at 260.06 who will win  Huh

There's like no volume at all. Bears can smell low volume and come running
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March 22, 2015, 02:59:03 AM

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ChartBuddy
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March 22, 2015, 03:58:58 AM

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March 22, 2015, 04:58:55 AM

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March 22, 2015, 05:58:57 AM

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RCan06
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March 22, 2015, 05:59:25 AM

Just posting to give chartbuddy some company, don't make it so lonely for the guy
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March 22, 2015, 06:26:52 AM

Just posting to give chartbuddy some company, don't make it so lonely for the guy

Aw. You broke up the string.

4 almost identical Chartbuddies in a row.

Just got back from the bar and I see I didn't miss a thing.

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March 22, 2015, 06:54:26 AM

Support stacking under 260 - Only a significant wall visible before 265.

We might be going up, or the smart seller of late wants to cash a good dump.

Eth.
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March 22, 2015, 06:59:04 AM

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March 22, 2015, 07:58:53 AM

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March 22, 2015, 08:16:33 AM

Support stacking under 260 - Only a significant wall visible before 265.

We might be going up, or the smart seller of late wants to cash a good dump.

Eth.

sellers blew their load at the friday night swamp ... pretty pathetic attempt at manipulation really.
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March 22, 2015, 08:59:02 AM

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March 22, 2015, 09:04:48 AM

Them swaps...

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