Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[SheHadMANHands]

~$250, $260, I hit my 100btc goal.  Then lock that in a vault for 5-10 years.   

[1714318496]

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[1714318496]

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[SheHadMANHands]

Guess: $250 , then lots of volume, bear trap, up.  What happens around $280/$290 where it could get interesting.

 

"As far as Goldman's goal, well, obviously it would love for its investment in Circle to produce a large monetary gain. However, there is likely a deeper motivation.

The investment was made by Goldman Sachs' Principal Strategic Investments Group, which focuses on investments within the financial technology space. In other words, they invest in companies whose products they could conceivably use in Goldman's own business. So let's look at what Circle does, and why it could be different from the hundreds of other Bitcoin start-ups that have sprung up in recent years."

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/05/03/youll-never-guess-who-is-investing-in-bitcoin.aspx

[Fatman3001]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-goes-mainstream-174241858.html

Bitcoin goes mainstream with Goldman Sachs' backing

with news like these, who need bull   ?

honestly, if even big bank put their money in bitcoin related business, they know that bitcoin business going big time... yay  

It's nice to see them differentiate between bitcoins and Bitcoin, between the vehicle of speculation and the transfer network.

GS's investment in Bitcoin is a clear endorsement of the value of the network and as the value of Bitcoin increases, the price of bitcoins will surely follow, albeit much more slowly.

Short-term, this news won't make much difference to the price. Long-term it's very bullish.

I sort of disagree a bit. I think it will matter in the short term. I think this is a green light for many financial actors. I also think speculators are going to start pricing this event into the price of XBT fairly immediately.

And even though their investment isn't purely a buy in into the bitcoin currency I think this talk about "investing in the network", as if it is completely independent of the currency, is just a way of deflecting criticism. GS are dipping their toes into the currency. The transactions will happen on the Bitcoin network with XBT units. This is BIG. This is not another "the blockchain-technology is fascinating but the currency is shit" kind of statement like we've seen in the past.

Goldman Sachs has boarded the train.

CHOO CHOO MOTHERFUCKERS!!!

No, its as the old guy from Canada said. Goldman Whacks have made the distinction between the technology that is bitcoin, and the blowhards who say we are going to the moon.   

Would you care to elaborate?

[SheHadMANHands]

Bitcoin is now a bad bet , as a technology , if you assume Goldman Sachs is the sucker.  Seems unlikely

EDIT: Unless it's a hedge.   

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Wandererfromthenorth]

The way I see it: some banks are starting to invest in bitcoin companies (but not bitcoin the currency itself) simply because they suspect that something will come out of this whole crypto thing. It doesn't have to be bitcoin the currency itself, it doesn't have to be a "coin", maybe a payment network, maybe another technology, a distributed ledger system, who knows.

As Boston Fed Researchers and Bank of England explained a few months ago, a lot of these investments in bitcoin related companies are done because "even if bitcoin is unlikely to succeed, it will spur innovation".

You need to consider something here:
1. It's not true that bitcoin (a token) and the underlying technology (a distributed ledger) are inseparable. As the Tim Swanson report showed (http://www.ofnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Permissioned-distributed-ledgers.pdf).
2. The pioneers are almost never the settlers. Facebook was not the first social network. Google was not the first search engine., etc.
What I'm saying is not that bitcoin will be replaced by a random existing shitcoin (those are pretty much all pump&dumps). My point is that you shouldn't take for granted that bitcoin => moon because some aspects of the underlying technology can be useful, because some people tell you that blockchain and bitcoin are inseparable, or because some banks are currently starting to invest in bitcoin companies.

Everything is possible of course, just don't take it for granted.

[SheHadMANHands]

All true.  Goldman Sachs must know that investing in a BTC company though is only going to make news, instill added confidence, and perhaps create a domino effect of big banks getting into BTC in growing number of ways.  They could have just kept shut up and completely ignored it, but actions speak loud.  Esp when the "currency" is sitting at a $3b market cap (practically nothing).

If an irrational market takes nothing more than a "proximate" cause to set it off in the other direction, maybe this is our proximate cause?

[SheHadMANHands]

Alt-coins, in general, remind me of those popup ads you used to see back in the 90s.  "GET YOURNAME.US.INFO NOW!"  Now we've all, for the most part, settled on ".com", as far as commerce websites at least (though there's been some rise in .io lately).  Feedback loops.

[Fatman3001]

The way I see it: some banks are starting to invest in bitcoin companies (but not bitcoin the currency itself) simply because they suspect that something will come out of this whole crypto thing. It doesn't have to be bitcoin the currency itself, it doesn't have to be a "coin", maybe a payment network, maybe another technology, a distributed ledger system, who knows.

As Boston Fed Researchers and Bank of England explained a few months ago, a lot of these investments in bitcoin related companies are done because "even if bitcoin is unlikely to succeed, it will spur innovation".

You need to consider something here:
1. It's not true that bitcoin (a token) and the underlying technology (a distributed ledger) are inseparable. As the Tim Swanson report showed (http://www.ofnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Permissioned-distributed-ledgers.pdf).
2. The pioneers are almost never the settlers. Facebook was not the first social network. Google was not the first search engine., etc.
What I'm saying is not that bitcoin will be replaced by a random existing shitcoin (those are pretty much all pump&dumps). My point is that you shouldn't take for granted that bitcoin => moon because some aspects of the underlying technology can be useful, because some people tell you that blockchain and bitcoin are inseparable, or because some banks are currently starting to invest in bitcoin companies.

Everything is possible of course, just don't take it for granted.

Do you have a quote of what you are referring to? Or at least a chapter or a page to back up your statement?

[Chef Ramsay]

All true.  Goldman Sachs must know that investing in a BTC company though is only going to make news, instill added confidence, and perhaps create a domino effect of big banks getting into BTC in growing number of ways.  They could have just kept shut up and completely ignored it, but actions speak loud.  Esp when the "currency" is sitting at a $3b market cap (practically nothing).

If an irrational market takes nothing more than a "proximate" cause to set it off in the other direction, maybe this is our proximate cause?

You can bet these upper and mid level employees of these big banks and hedge funds have been building themselves a position or are awaiting the upcoming tools for institutional investors to get some exposure to bitcoin. These news stories of certain interests getting involved in something are cattle calls to those in the industry to load up.

[Wandererfromthenorth]

The way I see it: some banks are starting to invest in bitcoin companies (but not bitcoin the currency itself) simply because they suspect that something will come out of this whole crypto thing. It doesn't have to be bitcoin the currency itself, it doesn't have to be a "coin", maybe a payment network, maybe another technology, a distributed ledger system, who knows.

As Boston Fed Researchers and Bank of England explained a few months ago, a lot of these investments in bitcoin related companies are done because "even if bitcoin is unlikely to succeed, it will spur innovation".

You need to consider something here:
1. It's not true that bitcoin (a token) and the underlying technology (a distributed ledger) are inseparable. As the Tim Swanson report showed (http://www.ofnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Permissioned-distributed-ledgers.pdf).
2. The pioneers are almost never the settlers. Facebook was not the first social network. Google was not the first search engine., etc.
What I'm saying is not that bitcoin will be replaced by a random existing shitcoin (those are pretty much all pump&dumps). My point is that you shouldn't take for granted that bitcoin => moon because some aspects of the underlying technology can be useful, because some people tell you that blockchain and bitcoin are inseparable, or because some banks are currently starting to invest in bitcoin companies.

Everything is possible of course, just don't take it for granted.

Do you have a quote of what you are referring to? Or at least a chapter or a page to back up your statement?

The Tim Swanson report I linked talks about it extensively.

Be careful tho I said that distibuted ledger technology and a reward token are not inseparable. Because technically yes the bitcoin blockchain needs bitcoin as a reward token, the network is dependent on its price etc.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Tim Swanson thinks transactions cost 25 BTC divided by the number of transactions in a block. That's a complete misunderstanding of not just what the block reward does but of what Bitcoin even is. He has gathered some interesting data, but his analysis is unlikely to be of much use as he has no fundamental understanding of Bitcoin in the first place.

[SheHadMANHands]

I guess the ultimate question then is if network effect of open source layer (leader - Bitcoin) trumps sufficiently that of proprietary protocols.

Consider Apple has a pretty successful platform..

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Tim Swanson thinks transactions cost 25 BTC divided by the number of transactions in a block. That's a complete misunderstanding of not just what the block reward does but of what Bitcoin even is. He has gathered some interesting data, but his analysis is unlikely to be of much use as he has no fundamental understanding of Bitcoin in the first place.

Tim Swanson is one of the few widely published that really seems to understand Bitcoin if you ask me. I think his advocacy of so-called permissioned ledgers stems from the premise that decentralization hurts the ability of Bitcoin to integrate into the current legal/regulatory pigeon-holes. I personally don't find that compelling, but that seems to me to be the nut of his argument.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[SheHadMANHands]

Really *feels* like we're going to hit a big volume upswing any second..   I swear.  It's too quite...

[Fatman3001]

The way I see it: some banks are starting to invest in bitcoin companies (but not bitcoin the currency itself) simply because they suspect that something will come out of this whole crypto thing. It doesn't have to be bitcoin the currency itself, it doesn't have to be a "coin", maybe a payment network, maybe another technology, a distributed ledger system, who knows.

As Boston Fed Researchers and Bank of England explained a few months ago, a lot of these investments in bitcoin related companies are done because "even if bitcoin is unlikely to succeed, it will spur innovation".

You need to consider something here:
1. It's not true that bitcoin (a token) and the underlying technology (a distributed ledger) are inseparable. As the Tim Swanson report showed (http://www.ofnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Permissioned-distributed-ledgers.pdf).
2. The pioneers are almost never the settlers. Facebook was not the first social network. Google was not the first search engine., etc.
What I'm saying is not that bitcoin will be replaced by a random existing shitcoin (those are pretty much all pump&dumps). My point is that you shouldn't take for granted that bitcoin => moon because some aspects of the underlying technology can be useful, because some people tell you that blockchain and bitcoin are inseparable, or because some banks are currently starting to invest in bitcoin companies.

Everything is possible of course, just don't take it for granted.

Do you have a quote of what you are referring to? Or at least a chapter or a page to back up your statement?

The Tim Swanson report I linked talks about it extensively.

Be careful tho I said that distibuted ledger technology and a reward token are not inseparable. Because technically yes the bitcoin blockchain needs bitcoin as a reward token, the network is dependent on its price etc.

I haven't read too closely (not closely at all, which is why I asked for a quote) but the kinds of networks where the blockchain and the token is separable it seems that no value is transferred. It will function purely as a ledger and the value will have to be transferred otherwise. If true, that seems quite limiting.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Fatman3001]

The way I see it: some banks are starting to invest in bitcoin companies (but not bitcoin the currency itself) simply because they suspect that something will come out of this whole crypto thing. It doesn't have to be bitcoin the currency itself, it doesn't have to be a "coin", maybe a payment network, maybe another technology, a distributed ledger system, who knows.

As Boston Fed Researchers and Bank of England explained a few months ago, a lot of these investments in bitcoin related companies are done because "even if bitcoin is unlikely to succeed, it will spur innovation".

You need to consider something here:
1. It's not true that bitcoin (a token) and the underlying technology (a distributed ledger) are inseparable. As the Tim Swanson report showed (http://www.ofnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Permissioned-distributed-ledgers.pdf).
2. The pioneers are almost never the settlers. Facebook was not the first social network. Google was not the first search engine., etc.
What I'm saying is not that bitcoin will be replaced by a random existing shitcoin (those are pretty much all pump&dumps). My point is that you shouldn't take for granted that bitcoin => moon because some aspects of the underlying technology can be useful, because some people tell you that blockchain and bitcoin are inseparable, or because some banks are currently starting to invest in bitcoin companies.

Everything is possible of course, just don't take it for granted.

Do you have a quote of what you are referring to? Or at least a chapter or a page to back up your statement?

The Tim Swanson report I linked talks about it extensively.

Be careful tho I said that distibuted ledger technology and a reward token are not inseparable. Because technically yes the bitcoin blockchain needs bitcoin as a reward token, the network is dependent on its price etc.

I haven't read too closely (not closely at all, which is why I asked for a quote) but the kinds of networks where the blockchain and the token is separable it seems that no value is transferred. It will function purely as a ledger and the value will have to be transferred otherwise. If true, that seems quite limiting.

Here's a link to a pdf of Anatomy of A Money-Like Informational Commodity: https://www.google.ca/search?q=tim+swanson+the+anatomy+of+a+money+like+inforational+commodity&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&gfe_rd=cr&ei=AH5GVdX6KOeM8Qefr4DgAQ

It's a good read.

You bunch of dicks

I asked for something a bit less than a 66 page analysis and you throw a 318 page book back at me

FFFFFFFFFF UUUUUUUUUUUUU

[macsga]

Everything turns to green. We only have to wait a bit longer to see if the pattern continues to the Monthly averages.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The way I see it: some banks are starting to invest in bitcoin companies (but not bitcoin the currency itself) simply because they suspect that something will come out of this whole crypto thing. It doesn't have to be bitcoin the currency itself, it doesn't have to be a "coin", maybe a payment network, maybe another technology, a distributed ledger system, who knows.

As Boston Fed Researchers and Bank of England explained a few months ago, a lot of these investments in bitcoin related companies are done because "even if bitcoin is unlikely to succeed, it will spur innovation".

You need to consider something here:
1. It's not true that bitcoin (a token) and the underlying technology (a distributed ledger) are inseparable. As the Tim Swanson report showed (http://www.ofnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Permissioned-distributed-ledgers.pdf).
2. The pioneers are almost never the settlers. Facebook was not the first social network. Google was not the first search engine., etc.
What I'm saying is not that bitcoin will be replaced by a random existing shitcoin (those are pretty much all pump&dumps). My point is that you shouldn't take for granted that bitcoin => moon because some aspects of the underlying technology can be useful, because some people tell you that blockchain and bitcoin are inseparable, or because some banks are currently starting to invest in bitcoin companies.

Everything is possible of course, just don't take it for granted.

Do you have a quote of what you are referring to? Or at least a chapter or a page to back up your statement?

The Tim Swanson report I linked talks about it extensively.

Be careful tho I said that distibuted ledger technology and a reward token are not inseparable. Because technically yes the bitcoin blockchain needs bitcoin as a reward token, the network is dependent on its price etc.

I haven't read too closely (not closely at all, which is why I asked for a quote) but the kinds of networks where the blockchain and the token is separable it seems that no value is transferred. It will function purely as a ledger and the value will have to be transferred otherwise. If true, that seems quite limiting.

Here's a link to a pdf of Anatomy of A Money-Like Informational Commodity: https://www.google.ca/search?q=tim+swanson+the+anatomy+of+a+money+like+inforational+commodity&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&gfe_rd=cr&ei=AH5GVdX6KOeM8Qefr4DgAQ

It's a good read.

You bunch of dicks

I asked for something a bit less than a 66 page analysis and you throw a 318 page book back at me

FFFFFFFFFF UUUUUUUUUUUUU