ssmc2
Legendary
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Activity: 2002
Merit: 1040
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May 04, 2015, 03:00:14 AM |
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Bids slowly building on Finex...
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JorgeStolfi
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May 04, 2015, 03:00:15 AM |
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money which the bitcoin holders have put into the system, and expect to get back from it --- I've put dollars into bitcoin but I don't expect to get back dollars. I expect to get back goods and services. It does not matter. If you buy 1 BTC today, the only way you will get 240$ worth of goods tomorrow is if tomorrow's new investors, after buying all the 3600 coins that will be issued tomorrow, will also buy from BitPay the 1 BTC that you spent on said goods. |
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hyphymikey
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May 04, 2015, 03:07:02 AM |
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money which the bitcoin holders have put into the system, and expect to get back from it --- I've put dollars into bitcoin but I don't expect to get back dollars. I expect to get back goods and services. It does not matter. If you buy 1 BTC today, the only way you will get 240$ worth of goods tomorrow is if tomorrow's new investors, after buying all the 3600 coins that will be issued tomorrow, will also buy from BitPay the 1 BTC that you spent on said goods. You've been on here how long Jorge? And you still don't get it? Miners don't sell all 3600 coins. I don't sell the coins I mine (never have), along with many many many other miners. |
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JorgeStolfi
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May 04, 2015, 03:16:33 AM |
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Do they say what price they are using? If it is the price on March 31, 2015 (~250 $/BTC), then it would be ~940 BTC. On their 2014 yearly report they declared to have 340'000 $ worth of bitcoin on Dec 31, 2014, "recorded at the lower of cost or market based on an average unit cost". For comparison, at the end of last year they also held ~10'000'000 $ worth of precious metals (!) and ~180'000'000 $ in "cash". I.e. their bitcoin holdings were about 0.2% of their "money" holdings. |
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Cconvert2G36
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May 04, 2015, 03:21:25 AM |
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Bids are looking firm as hell on finex. Asks are light. So... down?
Edit: Holding 1/18th of your cash in precious metals? Seems almost recklessly exposed to USD.
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JorgeStolfi
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May 04, 2015, 03:24:25 AM |
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Tim Swanson (who understands bitcoin's economy much better than most bitcoin gurus) is looking at the miners as an entity that performs a service to the "bitcoin system" (validating and securing transactions) in return for a payment (the block rewards and transaction fees).
That's where you and Tim are mistaken prof. You are completely ignoring the main function of the block reward, which is to distribute the tokens. That may be one intended function of the block reward; but now it is effectively the main payment that miners get for their work. (It is far from ideal for both purposes, though. The 25 BTC reward would be adequate if the price was in the single-digit range; which would be the case, if Satoshi had not been brainwashed by his libertarian friends with that Austrian Economics fiction about deflationary money...) |
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Cconvert2G36
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May 04, 2015, 03:28:25 AM |
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And the number halves in 2016 to 12.5 btc per block. Participants will come and go, adding hashrate and subtracting it to reach economic equilibrium, we know you know this prof.
The only danger is a precipitous drop in hashrate, leading to impossibly long confirmation times and a backed up cache of transactions. Until we hit the adjustment block.
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BlackSpidy
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May 04, 2015, 03:35:12 AM |
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I'm confident that there will always be miners. Regardless of reward/fees. Why? Look at torrents. There's always seeders if what you're looking for is popular enough. And I'm pretty sure bitcoin will remain very popular.
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Sitarow
Legendary
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Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
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May 04, 2015, 03:37:55 AM |
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money which the bitcoin holders have put into the system, and expect to get back from it --- I've put dollars into bitcoin but I don't expect to get back dollars. I expect to get back goods and services. It does not matter. If you buy 1 BTC today, the only way you will get 240$ worth of goods tomorrow is if tomorrow's new investors, after buying all the 3600 coins that will be issued tomorrow, will also buy from BitPay the 1 BTC that you spent on said goods. In time we will look back at the plentiful availability of these "new" subsidy coins. As time goes by those coin's will be harder to come by. Hopefully merchants will continue to free up the coins they get from purchases and into the hands of those with understanding of how to resourcefully utilize this technology. |
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JorgeStolfi
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May 04, 2015, 03:39:21 AM |
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Miners don't sell all 3600 coins. I don't sell the coins I mine (never have), along with many many many other miners.
Then, besides being a miner, you are also one of those "new investors". You are efectively buying your own coins. I.e. you have been financially supporting the bitcoin system with your own money. The day when you will finally decide to get your due payment, whether in dollars or in lamborghinis, you will have to get it from other new investors -- who will have to buy all the coins that your collagues will issue that day, and also buy your coins for whatever price you expect to get from them. |
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Fatman3001
Legendary
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Activity: 1526
Merit: 1013
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC
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May 04, 2015, 03:41:42 AM |
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Why do we keep feeding Dr.Troll?
If he wants to save souls he's in the wrong thread. There are none here.
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Cconvert2G36
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May 04, 2015, 03:44:47 AM |
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A small example, I use a few kW of bitmain miners every winter lately(sept-may). Even at break even (about $205) for me, I am harvesting the "waste" heat, offsetting non-negligible fuel costs. Selling the hardware when temps dictate I would need AC to cool them, and yes there is a market for nearly outdated used gear.
The big industrial farms are at a disadvantage compared to these kind of uses, which is offset by scale usually, but they still exist.
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Wings1987
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May 04, 2015, 03:50:47 AM |
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Bids are looking firm as hell on finex. Asks are light. So... down?
Edit: Holding 1/18th of your cash in precious metals? Seems almost recklessly exposed to USD.
Looks like slight uptick. Would be nice if it would run a little bit to end the weekend. The fake walls have been absent for the last 10-14 days. I am sure they will be back at some point. Anyone else notice that? |
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ChartBuddy
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1745
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
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May 04, 2015, 03:57:59 AM |
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shmadz
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
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May 04, 2015, 04:42:53 AM |
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Tim Swanson (who understands bitcoin's economy much better than most bitcoin gurus) is looking at the miners as an entity that performs a service to the "bitcoin system" (validating and securing transactions) in return for a payment (the block rewards and transaction fees).
That's where you and Tim are mistaken prof. You are completely ignoring the main function of the block reward, which is to distribute the tokens. That may be one intended function of the block reward; but now it is effectively the main payment that miners get for their work. (It is far from ideal for both purposes, though. The 25 BTC reward would be adequate if the price was in the single-digit range; which would be the case, if Satoshi had not been brainwashed by his libertarian friends with that Austrian Economics fiction about deflationary money...) Poor Stolfi, again I'm reminded of Dr. Robert Stadler. Enjoy your socialist, inflationary paradise while it lasts, professor. |
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ChartBuddy
Legendary
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Activity: 2156
Merit: 1745
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
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May 04, 2015, 04:57:59 AM |
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JorgeStolfi
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May 04, 2015, 05:09:34 AM |
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Poor Stolfi, again I'm reminded of Dr. Robert Stadler.
Enjoy your socialist, inflationary paradise while it lasts, professor.
Is that the "villain" of Atlas Shrugged? If so, well, I guess I am it, what can I do.  It is far from a paradise, but at least it is survivable. As for the ancap libertarian utopia, the only good thing I see in it is that it will collapse immediately if it ever gets implemented... |
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shmadz
Legendary
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Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
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May 04, 2015, 05:28:24 AM |
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Poor Stolfi, again I'm reminded of Dr. Robert Stadler.
Enjoy your socialist, inflationary paradise while it lasts, professor.
Is that the "villain" of Atlas Shrugged? If so, well, I guess I am it, what can I do. It is far from a paradise, but at least it is survivable. As for the ancap libertarian utopia, the only good thing I see in it is that it will collapse immediately if it ever gets implemented... I wouldn't call him a villain ( and I don't mean to paint you as the villain here either) In my interpretation, he was merely a short-sighted, misguided professor who had three brilliant students that recognised the problem and walked away from it and built something better, while their "teacher" remained entrenched in the problematic system. (He met a rather unpleasant end, by the way... sorry for the spoiler) In any case , it was only a fictional tale. Although I disagree with nearly everything you say, I do not wish you ill. Best of luck, professor. |
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alesx.onfire
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May 04, 2015, 05:40:09 AM |
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lets see some Big Pump or Dump
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marcus_of_augustus
Legendary
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Activity: 3920
Merit: 2348
Eadem mutata resurgo
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May 04, 2015, 05:48:42 AM |
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Tim Swanson (who understands bitcoin's economy much better than most bitcoin gurus) is looking at the miners as an entity that performs a service to the "bitcoin system" (validating and securing transactions) in return for a payment (the block rewards and transaction fees).
That's where you and Tim are mistaken prof. You are completely ignoring the main function of the block reward, which is to distribute the tokens. That may be one intended function of the block reward; but now it is effectively the main payment that miners get for their work. (It is far from ideal for both purposes, though. The 25 BTC reward would be adequate if the price was in the single-digit range; which would be the case, if Satoshi had not been brainwashed by his libertarian friends with that Austrian Economics fiction about deflationary money...) yes satoshi was brainwashed and you are a genius ... ffs, pull your head out of your own ... the sooner the brazilian taxpayer sues the smugness off your face and gets their wasted money back for your idleness the better for all. |
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