Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[rolling]

I'll gladly explain.
The state may have the power to go after the bad actors, but Bitcoin makes it far more difficult, because pseudonymity. Unlike fiat, Bitcoin transactions are not linked to identities - only addys.

The state also has no real interest in maintaining a semblance of order & respectability in a pseudocurrency meant to unseat the state-backed money. It has great interest in maintaining the value of the currency it issues, but Bitcoin's value? Not so much

TL;DR: No mechanism for self-governance; no incentive for state to help; more difficult to enforce even if the incentive was there.

@Lardass: ur fat.

Law enforcement testified at the NYDFS hearings last year and they repeatedly said bitcoin did not make their job any harder in regards to catching criminals.

Since when did Bitcoiners start trusting LEO?

Fiat is not linked to identities. Credit cards might be, bank transfers might be, but fiat itself is not linked to identities.

Semantics? Also, see edit:

And, of course cash transactions are, by their nature, done face-to-face, so identity is established in tried & true meatspace mode.

Trusting law enforcement is not required. Following the money is just one way to catch criminals and a relatively new one in the history of law enforcement.

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[rolling]

Trusting law enforcement is not required. Following the money is just one way to catch criminals and a relatively new one in the history of law enforcement.

You've just pointed out that Bitcoin removes one of the recent additions to LEO's crime-fighting arsenal.
Now go ahead, keep believing their lies

I didn't say that and any criminal that thinks they can avoid being caught by using bitcoin should remember how that worked out for the silk road guy.

Who's lies?

[rolling]

Trusting law enforcement is not required. Following the money is just one way to catch criminals and a relatively new one in the history of law enforcement.

You've just pointed out that Bitcoin removes one of the recent additions to LEO's crime-fighting arsenal.
Now go ahead, keep believing their lies

I didn't say that and any criminal that thinks they can avoid being caught by using bitcoin should remember how that worked out for the silk road guy.

Who's lies?

The "silk road guy" was owned not to help Bitcoiners recover their money, but because the state didn't want him dealing dope & not even bothering to pay taxes. No one's coin was ever returned from SR, so not sure why you brought that up.

Yes, the state will punish you when you try to go against it, my point is it won't hold your hand when shit goes wrong. It might chase down a few Bitcoin criminals for lel, but don't bank on them helping you get your interweb money back.
Bitcoin's no CC - someone steals yours, it's gone. No chargeback, no fresh new plastic

Are we talking about consumer protection now? Yes, we agree. Bitcoin is just like cash and if you send somebody cash, you can't do a chargeback. If you want to have that protection, use your credit card. Nobody is saying Bitcoin has to replace credit cards or fiat.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[ejinte]

Finally the dollar is going down.

[rolling]

[]
Are we talking about consumer protection now?

Well yeah, that's what we're talking about, assumed that was clear from my first post.

[]
The problem with BTC is it has no mechanisms in place to deal with bad actors. That's Y it fails - right on the conceptual level.
Real money has the might of the state to punish the con men, Bitcoin? Not so much.

Thus far, the only repercussions felt by thieves & conmen in Bitcoin Equestria came from the hand of the nanny-state Bitcoiners so love to whine about

Yes, we agree. Bitcoin is just like cash and if you send somebody cash, you can't do a chargeback. If you want to have that protection, use your credit card. Nobody is saying Bitcoin has to replace credit cards or fiat.

The thing is, no one needs to send cash (through the mails?!) anymore. That's the dumbest way I've ever heard of for sending money. Real money has CC & checks, so stupid shit like stuffing bills in an envelope don't need to be done.

And yeah, no one's saying BTC will replace CC - at least I'm not.

I think I see where you're confused. You're blaming Bitcoin for people getting scammed out of their money rather than blaming the stupid people for sending cash to the scammer. Bitcoin is digital cash, it is not a complete replacement for credit cards and all of the consumer protection that credit cards offer. If you send cash to someone, you are taking that risk.

If you think sending cash through the mail is a stupid way to send money then you should find comfort in Bitcoin since it is a much safer way to send cash to a person. If you have a problem transacting with cash in any form, that is a bigger issue that has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

[macsga]

WSJ seems to have a better chart than the others; the question still remains though, how come and GBTC hits higher and higher and the others are hovering at almost half price...

http://quotes.wsj.com/GBTC

[Feri22]

Just bought some BTC....dump incoming  

[bitebits]

....or better yet Jorge...why don't you want that Bitcoin succeed? It is pretty awesome network after all give or take...I just realized how much powerfull it is when i read about the fine to Ripple from FinCEN...And i realized there is no better currency in sight, because when someone will create googlecoin, facebookcoin or whateverpieceofshitcoin, it will always be centralized and if there really will be some decentralized competitor, we will all see it in advance, but it is not happening and i doubt it will anytime soon...so are you sceptical just about Bitcoin or about the whole crypto-currency evolution?

This is beyond imagination powerful. Every regulation, seizure etc makes Bitcoin stronger. It is inevitable.

[Brewins]

Finally the dollar is going down.

going down against what, I must ask

[Chainsaw]

WSJ seems to have a better chart than the others; the question still remains though, how come and GBTC hits higher and higher and the others are hovering at almost half price...

http://quotes.wsj.com/GBTC

Volume was at least 152. The OTC reporting rools paired with microscopic liquidity makes it real tough to get an accurate read of the prices throughout the day.

The 60 shares I sold at $65 today were not reflected in the historical data based on their size.

Interesting that, at market close, there are no GBTC quotes visible on the Bid or Ask side, except for $24 and $299.95.

If Maxim really keeps their Bid pulled, I fear we will find equilibrium lower.

I'm rather surprised that days 2 and 3 both failed to pull a new seller out of the woodwork at 250%+ premiums.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

WSJ seems to have a better chart than the others; the question still remains though, how come and GBTC hits higher and higher and the others are hovering at almost half price...

Is it any wonder that Greece is in the sh*t that it's in when people think like this?

One contrived, limited bitcoin derivative with a volume of about 100 coins makes up a price, and now ALL the proper exchanges have the wrong (half) price!!

"I want this one to be true, so everything else is wrong"

[macsga]

WSJ seems to have a better chart than the others; the question still remains though, how come and GBTC hits higher and higher and the others are hovering at almost half price...

http://quotes.wsj.com/GBTC

Volume was at least 152. The OTC reporting rools paired with microscopic liquidity makes it real tough to get an accurate read of the prices throughout the day.

The 60 shares I sold at $65 today were not reflected in the historical data based on their size.

Interesting that, at market close, there are no GBTC quotes visible on the Bid or Ask side, except for $24 and $299.95.

If Maxim really keeps their Bid pulled, I fear we will find equilibrium lower.

I'm rather surprised that days 2 and 3 both failed to pull a new seller out of the woodwork at 250%+ premiums.

Thanks for the clarification; I couldn't figure out how this works.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[rolling]

I think I see where you're confused. You're blaming Bitcoin for people getting scammed out of their money rather than blaming the stupid people for sending cash to the scammer. Bitcoin is digital cash, it is not a complete replacement for credit cards and all of the consumer protection that credit cards offer. If you send cash to someone, you are taking that risk.

If you think sending cash through the mail is a stupid way to send money then you should find comfort in Bitcoin since it is a much safer way to send cash to a person. If you have a problem transacting with cash in any form, that is a bigger issue that has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

I'm blaming Bitcoin for lending itself so well to scamming, not sure how I can express it any simpler than I've already done. Your'e basically arguing that I shouldn't be blaming your rope ladder for people falling to their death. I should blame the people themselves for being clumsy. You'd have a point, if the skyscraper didn't already have excellent elevators that accomplish the same task you've built your flimsy rope ladder for. Only they do it faster & safer.
Get it?

People don't do major transactions in cash. They don't send crates of cash halfway around the world - not unless they're stupid. Bitcoin didn't invent sending money without putting it in a box - most financial transactions are done digitally, so comparing Bitcoin to putting cash in the mail is a bit forced. NO ONE MAILS CASH.

There are many use cases for Bitcoin that didn't exist prior to Bitcoin so yeah, one of them is you can now send a crate full of cash instantly around the globe with no risk of it being intercepted. There are plenty of non-criminal reasons that this is a great new improvement to money. With all new discoveries, there will be misuses and criminal activity. Should we just stop progress then because of a few petty criminals?

...and I would view Bitcoin more like being beamed up to the top floor instantly instead of riding your antiquated elevator.

[Morecoin Freeman]

Stability? It was all a dream... Crashing.

[Brewins]

Stability? It was all a dream... Crashing.

I see no crash, sr

[ejinte]

Finally the dollar is going down.

going down against what, I must ask

Euro and all other European currencies.

[Chainsaw]

WSJ seems to have a better chart than the others; the question still remains though, how come and GBTC hits higher and higher and the others are hovering at almost half price...

http://quotes.wsj.com/GBTC

Volume was at least 152. The OTC reporting rools paired with microscopic liquidity makes it real tough to get an accurate read of the prices throughout the day.

The 60 shares I sold at $65 today were not reflected in the historical data based on their size.

Interesting that, at market close, there are no GBTC quotes visible on the Bid or Ask side, except for $24 and $299.95.

If Maxim really keeps their Bid pulled, I fear we will find equilibrium lower.

I'm rather surprised that days 2 and 3 both failed to pull a new seller out of the woodwork at 250%+ premiums.

The GBTC book updated, and all the orders present throughout the day remain. Must have been (another) data glitch as the day's data crossed over or synchronized.

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote

I am pleased that at end of day, it properly reflects the $65 sales which executed.

[Tzupy]

Support broken on OKcoin, also triggered bearish flip of 2h PSAR.