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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 62

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26371732 times)
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December 19, 2015, 06:00:36 AM

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December 19, 2015, 07:00:36 AM

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December 19, 2015, 08:00:36 AM

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December 19, 2015, 08:12:42 AM
Last edit: December 19, 2015, 08:51:51 AM by Cconvert2G36

               

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December 19, 2015, 08:33:31 AM

Sorry, Guys. You can have high prices or you can have high transaction fees, but you can't have both. 
Just hold the price above $400 until I can get my old coins out of cold storage.

I'm outie.
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December 19, 2015, 08:54:56 AM

Sorry, Guys. You can have high prices or you can have high transaction fees, but you can't have both. 
Just hold the price above $400 until I can get my old coins out of cold storage.

I'm outie.

"And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting—on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .

So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back."

So that's that? You give up before we even find out if the battle is lost?

The core devs have no incentive to fix the scaling problem if the price is high. You wanna wait until the fee market is in effect and Zuckerberg rolls out FBcoin with zero fees? I'll buy back in when and if the 1MB4EVA crowd cashes out.   I started buying at $6 so my battle is won.

First block over 1MB and I'm back in.
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December 19, 2015, 09:00:35 AM

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December 19, 2015, 09:44:22 AM


The core devs have no incentive to fix the scaling problem if the price is high. You wanna wait until the fee market is in effect and Zuckerberg rolls out FBcoin with zero fees? I'll buy back in when and if the 1MB4EVA crowd cashes out.   I started buying at $6 so my battle is won.

First block over 1MB and I'm back in.

Have you read about the segregated witness implementation yet?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1279444.0
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December 19, 2015, 10:00:36 AM

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bitebits
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December 19, 2015, 10:03:46 AM
Last edit: December 19, 2015, 10:33:31 AM by bitebits

Economic considerations should also be given for developing countries where bandwidth costs are high, as are imported technological goods like hard disks, ram and high end CPUs/mobos. The western world doesn't really understand the problem.

Serious question as a 'western world citizen'. How do developing countries use the Internet nowadays? Do they have big hubs and data centers like in the west? Or do they just make use of the Internet, but hosted in the more developed countries?

Without taking a position in the debate, I can't judge it well enough, it seems like sending and receiving a few kilobytes is plenty for making a transaction.
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December 19, 2015, 10:09:39 AM

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December 19, 2015, 10:14:49 AM

Economic considerations should also be given for developing countries where bandwidth costs are high, as are imported technological goods like hard disks, ram and high end CPUs/mobos. The western world doesn't really understand the problem.

Serious question as a 'western world citizen'. How do developing countries use the Internet nowadays? Do they have big hubs and data centers like in the west? Or do they just make use of the Internet as it is hosted in the more developed countries?

Without taking a position in the debate, I can't judge it well enough, it seems like sending and receiving a few kilobytes is plenty for making a transaction.

Gimme a break. My node cost me $118 bucks.
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December 19, 2015, 10:24:41 AM


The core devs have no incentive to fix the scaling problem if the price is high. You wanna wait until the fee market is in effect and Zuckerberg rolls out FBcoin with zero fees? I'll buy back in when and if the 1MB4EVA crowd cashes out.   I started buying at $6 so my battle is won.

First block over 1MB and I'm back in.

Have you read about the segregated witness implementation yet?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1279444.0

Yeah. Gavin says it's a cool idea and needs to be tested, but he also said it wasn't enough to fix the problem. That is a long way off from implementation if it ever happens and blocks will be full before then. ANY patch seems to be too controversial to implement. If the rough consensus attack continues, the differences in opinion can be exploited to ensure it doesn't happen.

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December 19, 2015, 10:33:10 AM
Last edit: December 19, 2015, 11:12:26 AM by AlexGR

Economic considerations should also be given for developing countries where bandwidth costs are high, as are imported technological goods like hard disks, ram and high end CPUs/mobos. The western world doesn't really understand the problem.

Serious question as a 'western world citizen'. How do developing countries use the Internet nowadays? Do they have big hubs and data centers like in the west? Or do they just make use of the Internet as it is hosted in the more developed countries?

Without taking a position in the debate, I can't judge it well enough, it seems like sending and receiving a few kilobytes is plenty for making a transaction.

Typically there are no big hubs or data centers, except in some cases where it makes sense due to a country being a hub for other nearby countries, so serving data regionally makes sense instead of connecting to Europe, the US, etc.

The reason is that developing countries can't get competitive rates for their connectivity. Cost per gbps is much higher than the west due to very low economies of scale. And that's also why some ISPs can give you, say, 100mbps connections and then tell you that you can't really use more than a few GBs per month for downloading (but you can use more for local sites, local ftp, local P2P use, etc - because that is traffic which at a national level is like an intranet and you are not paying Verizon or Level 3 to "feed you").

The few kilobytes indeed aren't a problem. Running a full node or syncing a blockchain that is, say, 100-200-500 GB or 2 TB will be prohibitive in cases where capping is an issue.

Not having cheap access to technology & bandwidth is a major contributing factor for this situation: https://bitnodes.21.co/
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December 19, 2015, 11:00:35 AM

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December 19, 2015, 11:16:25 AM

Wow this is so dull I had to go the casino and got much better action in the poker room playing 2/5 holdem.
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December 19, 2015, 11:24:38 AM

Some volatility and volume would be nice.

Not happening till 2016, seems.


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December 19, 2015, 11:32:15 AM

There are now 5 or more recursive cuphandles on the chart.
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December 19, 2015, 11:47:02 AM

Economic considerations should also be given for developing countries where bandwidth costs are high, as are imported technological goods like hard disks, ram and high end CPUs/mobos. The western world doesn't really understand the problem.

Serious question as a 'western world citizen'. How do developing countries use the Internet nowadays? Do they have big hubs and data centers like in the west? Or do they just make use of the Internet as it is hosted in the more developed countries?

Without taking a position in the debate, I can't judge it well enough, it seems like sending and receiving a few kilobytes is plenty for making a transaction.

Gimme a break. My node cost me $118 bucks.

Good contribution to the cause but don't you think that for someone who bought in a 6$, maintaining a node at the price is very cheap? Unless you are out of money and in that case I'd understand.
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December 19, 2015, 11:56:15 AM

No fee doesn't mean free transactions. I paid for those transactions when I bought my stash.

Not really. If I can buy 1 BTC and move it indefinitely as 100mn transactions of 1 satoshi, back and forth, I'll be making millions of bogus transactions for nothing. I haven't bought that "right" to fuck the blockchain and the network, sorry.

I'm also aware that as we go into the future I will be paying more and more fees, because these will start to be the main source of income for miners, instead of the block reward. That's the specification, based on pretty well thought-out game theory to both distribute the monetary base and secure the network in the long run.

Quote
I was subsidizing the miners so the network can grow.

The miners will get their 21mn coins, whatever anyone does.

Quote
Then you assholes came around and thought Bitcoin could be more useful if fewer people can use it.

The 1MB limit is there for a veeeery long time. Did you came before or after this patch was applied? Surely Satoshi didn't envision "crippling" bitcoin with that patch, as you imply about cripplecoiners etc, but having several vulnerabilities open as a result of the no-limitation was not an option.

When there is a vulnerability and a security patch is issued, you don't just revert the patch if you haven't found an adequate solution to the problem. This is irresponsible.

What you are saying that some assholes came around and thought Bitcoin is more useful if less people use it, is simply not true. What actually happened is that G & H came along and started selling their "bigger is better" propaganda of "XT" and at around the same time some other assholes were doing "stress tests", exploiting all the unused 1MB space, for peanuts, and bloating the blockchain with bullshit. The proposed "solution" was to bypass the patch that was there to prevent the vulnerabilities that had been discovered, despite the fact that the transaction limit was still way below the limit (bogus transactions notwithstanding) under a pretense of false urgency (the question is why?). And they seem to have added some more crap to the XT fork as well that made people repulsed by it.

Anyway that's the story. What we need for the future is a way to scale better. A way that can support hundreds of tx/s without creating bloat and centralization. This can't be achieved with a plain block size increase. The devs know it, the devs of altcoins know it, quite a few people will be working on this for months or years to come. Until then we'll have to manage with a combination of increased fees and an increased blocksize to accommodate for a legitimate increase in transactions.

Parallel to that, the blockchain will continue to scale in terms of value transacted, whether the 1MB limit is raised in the short-term or mid-term. If you have, say, an average 1MB block worth 100.000 USD in transactions, by making better use of it (no dust/spam/bogus/stress txs) you could get 10x of value inside the same block, in terms of money transacted. So, over a year, with the example given (100k USD per block vs 1mn USD per block) you jump to 52bn USD transacted per year instead of 5.2bn. And you do that, with the exact same parameters of 1MB blocks.

This is the alternate dimension of scaling (=in terms of value) which we consider a given since BTC doesn't have any issues in dealing with it. You could be sending 50$ or 1bn with ease. So if you get to have less 0.05$ or 0.5$ txs and more 5$ or 50$, you still process way more money.

You'll be seeing this go higher and higher, irregardless of the block size: https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume-usd
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