Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[r0ach]

Man, so the US markets are breaking a new high every day for the last 8 days.  I see the equities doing so strong that BTC isn't as attractive, that can't last and seems like bubble territory in the stock market right now.

I suspect the markets will be propped up for the jewish bankers to try and get their Hillary Clinton sockpuppet into office.  If the markets were tanking while she's running on Obama's legacy, it wouldn't look very good.  When/if Trump wins, I assume they will crash the market like 1 month after he steps into office and try to blame it on him.  Or maybe they will pull the plug and crash the stock market the second they see Hillary can't win.

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[respawn2]

Don't we have a not-so-top secret algo change from hell in case of emergencies?

You can start mining a worthless alt with a new algo. Have fun.

This is no different than a typical business/labor dispute, the sort that happens when bosses make promises they don't keep.
Really.
And the slimmer the miner's (it's, like, 9 pool operators, who are we kidding?) current margin is, the more incentive they have to "Unionize" and "strike."

Only when IRL workers strike, they don't get to draw 96% of their paycheck, as the miners will (because block reward).

Step1: Grind BTC to a complete stop
Step2: ??
Step3: Profit  

Think there's a flaw in your logic somewhere

How do you think strikes work?
Step1: Grind BTC to a complete stop
Step2: "Your coin isn't worth dick until you let us have what we want. While we're on strike, we're making only 4% less than when we're working for you. Think about it. Take your time."
Step3: Profit  

You're delusional or trolling if you think this will work.

Let's try to be civil. I'm not gonna call you a faggot and you're not going to call me delusional or a troll. Shall we give that a try and see how it goes?

I'm speculation that majority of miners are also hodler, what will that do to the price of BTC and their investment?

What makes you think that most miners are hodlers? Do you think the guy who works at the gas station is also a gasoline aficionado, and spends his paychecks on 55-gal drums of Premium?

Good luck trying to find idiots to sign up to that. Here's a shovel start digging your own graves for the greater good  

Remember what I said about acting civil?

[adamstgBit]

respawn2  click -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1389955.0

you might enjoy the read

[respawn2]

respawn2  click -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1389955.0

you might enjoy the read

A blazz from da pazz.
Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not some Miner's Union organizer. Just trying to figure out how things can play out: what's probable, what's possible, and what's not. Like playing chess if you ain't got the book learnin', "if I go here, then he can, but then I." that sort of thing.

P.S. think we're due for a matching uptick to maybe 70, before going below 60?

[adamstgBit]

respawn2  click -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1389955.0

you might enjoy the read

A blazz from da pazz.
Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not some Miner's Union organizer. Just trying to figure out how things can play out: what's probable, what's possible, and what's not. Like playing chess if you ain't got the book learnin', "if I go here, then he can, but then I." that sort of thing.

i just want core to burn...

[marcus_of_augustus]

respawn2  click -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1389955.0

you might enjoy the read

he wont be reading anything, it's just lambchop trolling up the good old faithful blocksize fracas FUD to go with their pathetic short attack for some cheap coins now they've cashed out of dead-in-the-water ethereum longs ... looks like stirring up 'miner panic' is the target here, probably Jihan paying them

[adamstgBit]

respawn2  click -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1389955.0

you might enjoy the read

he wont be reading anything, it's just lambchop trolling up the good old faithful blocksize fracas FUD to go with their pathetic short attack for some cheap coins now they've cashed out of dead-in-the-water ethereum longs ... looks like stirring up 'miner panic' is the target here, probably Jihan paying them

its working.

[DaRude]

Don't we have a not-so-top secret algo change from hell in case of emergencies?

You can start mining a worthless alt with a new algo. Have fun.

This is no different than a typical business/labor dispute, the sort that happens when bosses make promises they don't keep.
Really.
And the slimmer the miner's (it's, like, 9 pool operators, who are we kidding?) current margin is, the more incentive they have to "Unionize" and "strike."

Only when IRL workers strike, they don't get to draw 96% of their paycheck, as the miners will (because block reward).

Step1: Grind BTC to a complete stop
Step2: ??
Step3: Profit  

Think there's a flaw in your logic somewhere

How do you think strikes work?
Step1: Grind BTC to a complete stop
Step2: "Your coin isn't worth dick until you let us have what we want. While we're on strike, we're making only 4% less than when we're working for you. Think about it. Take your time."
Step3: Profit  

You're delusional or trolling if you think this will work.

Let's try to be civil. I'm not gonna call you a faggot and you're not going to call me delusional or a troll. Shall we give that a try and see how it goes?

I'm speculation that majority of miners are also hodler, what will that do to the price of BTC and their investment?

What makes you think that most miners are hodlers? Do you think the guy who works at the gas station is also a gasoline aficionado, and spends his paychecks on 55-gal drums of Premium?

Good luck trying to find idiots to sign up to that. Here's a shovel start digging your own graves for the greater good  

Remember what I said about acting civil?

There's a pretty huge gap between calling someone "delusional or trolling" and a faggot. Drawing a parallel between miners and a guy working at the gas station is a pretty dumb weak argument borderline trolling. If you weren't trolling, a more appropriate comparison would be between a miner and an oil drilling company, and arguing how the later doesn't hold any inventory? Or has a trade desk that speculates on oil price  

But yeah keep pushing the idea of miners shooting themselves in a foot

[adamstgBit]

think we're due for a matching uptick to maybe 70, before going below 60?

idk probably not... you've forced me to remember just how discontent i am with the direction core has forced upon us, and how i do believe it will ultimately kill bitcoin by ensuring minning can never be sustainable long term.
...
suddenly i feel depressed, i'm going to bed.

[DaRude]

think we're due for a matching uptick to maybe 70, before going below 60?

idk probably not... you've forced me to remember just how discontent i am with the direction core has forced upon us, and how i do believe it will ultimately kill bitcoin by ensuring minning can never be sustainable long term.
...
suddenly i feel depressed, i'm going to bed.

One day it'll become clear, and you'll be thankful that core has some sane people that resisted the pressure to bend over backwards to Chinese miners 

[dumbfbrankings]

think we're due for a matching uptick to maybe 70, before going below 60?

idk probably not... you've forced me to remember just how discontent i am with the direction core has forced upon us, and how i do believe it will ultimately kill bitcoin by ensuring minning can never be sustainable long term.
...
suddenly i feel depressed, i'm going to bed.

One day it'll become clear, and you'll be thankful that core has some sane people that resisted the pressure to bend over backwards to Chinese miners 

Oh it will become clear, one day. I'm not sure which one of us is going to have to wait longer, tho.

(Also, luke jr... sane?... lol)

[respawn2]

Don't we have a not-so-top secret algo change from hell in case of emergencies?

You can start mining a worthless alt with a new algo. Have fun.

This is no different than a typical business/labor dispute, the sort that happens when bosses make promises they don't keep.
Really.
And the slimmer the miner's (it's, like, 9 pool operators, who are we kidding?) current margin is, the more incentive they have to "Unionize" and "strike."

Only when IRL workers strike, they don't get to draw 96% of their paycheck, as the miners will (because block reward).

Step1: Grind BTC to a complete stop
Step2: ??
Step3: Profit  

Think there's a flaw in your logic somewhere

How do you think strikes work?
Step1: Grind BTC to a complete stop
Step2: "Your coin isn't worth dick until you let us have what we want. While we're on strike, we're making only 4% less than when we're working for you. Think about it. Take your time."
Step3: Profit  

You're delusional or trolling if you think this will work.

Let's try to be civil. I'm not gonna call you a faggot and you're not going to call me delusional or a troll. Shall we give that a try and see how it goes?

I'm speculation that majority of miners are also hodler, what will that do to the price of BTC and their investment?

What makes you think that most miners are hodlers? Do you think the guy who works at the gas station is also a gasoline aficionado, and spends his paychecks on 55-gal drums of Premium?

Good luck trying to find idiots to sign up to that. Here's a shovel start digging your own graves for the greater good  

Remember what I said about acting civil?

There's a pretty huge gap between calling someone "delusional or trolling" and a faggot.

No, it isn't. Both are meaningless, empty verbiage meant to insult and belittle the person you're talking to. Both carry no information, both are childish and rude.

Drawing a parallel between miners and a guy working at the gas station is a pretty dumb weak argument borderline trolling. If you weren't trolling, a more appropriate comparison would be between a miner and an oil drilling company, and arguing how the later doesn't hold any inventory? Or has a trade desk that speculates on oil price  

Do you think oil drilling companies own oil? Do they store it in their wine Oil Cellars too? In 55-gal drums, and the best in Mason jars, labeled "Sweet Crude"?
We live in different worlds.

But yeah keep pushing the idea of miners shooting themselves in a foot

Again: Stop trying to provoke me and start reading. I'm not a Miner's advocate. I'm not a big blocker, I'm simply trying to play things through. Now what's the point of turning neutral bystanders into enemies? Why do it?

But back on topic: tell me how a mining equivalent of a walkout would hurt them?
Or do you think workers who strike never get what they want?

[jbreher]

respawn2  click -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1389955.0

Haha. Man, I'm so not with the kul-cha. How long has that Shia LaBeouf thing been circling the innertubez? Brilliant!

AAR, Yes. Just Do It. I've been running BU for about a half-year, configured large. Ready for the day that the miners wake & make their move.

Just Do It!

[dumbfbrankings]

Sure they will reset the difficulty, but GPU miners aren't the Salvation Army, they're mercenary. If forking the shit out of BTC is what pays, that's what they'll do. And it sure will take more than a few hours to deploy a meaningful number of GPU farms to prevent this from happening, GPUs aren't sitting around waiting for the goahead from Core.
That's why countries have standing armies, who do nothing but eat and shit 99% of the time. For times like this.

Take a look at ETH classic, it is chugging along with like 3.5% of the hashrate, and hasn't been attacked yet. You don't need turnkey farms to spin up an ideological altcoin.

2. Nah, that would just serve promote a sense of injustice and tyranny they have no interest in promoting. Clear communication, plenty of time for node operators to upgrade would accomplish much more. No need to fight dirty if you have the backing of the market.

Have tx fee increases  promoted a sense of injustice and tyranny in the past? Do people see the miners as their friends, not businessmen looking to maximize their profits?
The miners may well be everyone's friends, doing it for the community etc., but I'm trying to walk through plausible adversarial scenarios, where each party plays to maximize their rational self-interest win.

It's not a good idea to spit on your customers... simple as that I think. They will raise fees maybe in the sense of delaying segwit... but arbitrarily giving the finger to users... sounds like a good way to bolster the 1MB altcoin that wants the crown.

Is there something more than Miss Manners that stands in the way of (2)?
I keep hearing stuff like "it's not nice, be nice" in one ear, and blood-curdling screams of the robbed/buttraped in the other. So having a hard time figuring out if this is a family/friends or a business/let's make some money type of a setup.

How can my "customers" (assuming you mean BTC holders and not exchanges) make an iota of difference here? Why would I care if you have a million BTC in a paper wallet buried under a bird bath?
This is all hypothetical, of course, because I'm really passionate about supporting the Bitcoin community and you just can't put a price on something like that. Because it's priceless.

It's not Miss Manners, it's self interest, this here contraption is a greed machine. It's why ETH forked for the wrong reason, and why BTC will fork for the right reason.

[billyjoeallen]

We're down 19.5% from the $789 top, half a percent from a bear market, and still $500 down from the ATH two and a half years ago. I blame the delayed recovery on Core and the lack of on chain scaling.

[respawn2]

Run this Bitcoin video https://youtu.be/AUP8t-5pFZg?t=235 in one tab,
and this not-bitcoin video https://youtu.be/5PuDWxgIxdc?t=100 in another.
Backstory: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4tun94/ok_coin_just_scammed_me_and_my_wife_out_of_25_btc/?st=iqvp5u1a&sh=ce0d2f57
Disturbingly funny.

I need to sleep now.

[Chef Ramsay]

respawn2  click -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1389955.0

you might enjoy the read

he wont be reading anything, it's just lambchop trolling up the good old faithful blocksize fracas FUD to go with their pathetic short attack for some cheap coins now they've cashed out of dead-in-the-water ethereum longs ... looks like stirring up 'miner panic' is the target here, probably Jihan paying them

Ding, ding, we have a winner.  The filthy, dirty cunt is on her daily hunt to spread FUD/garbage to all who will respond to them, yes them. Probably time to just walk the other way when the degenerate ups their sox for this onslaught as per usual. Playing into her hands is her ace card, yo. This thread should only be allowed for respectable btc folks.

[DaRude]

Don't we have a not-so-top secret algo change from hell in case of emergencies?

You can start mining a worthless alt with a new algo. Have fun.

This is no different than a typical business/labor dispute, the sort that happens when bosses make promises they don't keep.
Really.
And the slimmer the miner's (it's, like, 9 pool operators, who are we kidding?) current margin is, the more incentive they have to "Unionize" and "strike."

Only when IRL workers strike, they don't get to draw 96% of their paycheck, as the miners will (because block reward).

Step1: Grind BTC to a complete stop
Step2: ??
Step3: Profit  

Think there's a flaw in your logic somewhere

How do you think strikes work?
Step1: Grind BTC to a complete stop
Step2: "Your coin isn't worth dick until you let us have what we want. While we're on strike, we're making only 4% less than when we're working for you. Think about it. Take your time."
Step3: Profit  

You're delusional or trolling if you think this will work.

Let's try to be civil. I'm not gonna call you a faggot and you're not going to call me delusional or a troll. Shall we give that a try and see how it goes?

I'm speculation that majority of miners are also hodler, what will that do to the price of BTC and their investment?

What makes you think that most miners are hodlers? Do you think the guy who works at the gas station is also a gasoline aficionado, and spends his paychecks on 55-gal drums of Premium?

Good luck trying to find idiots to sign up to that. Here's a shovel start digging your own graves for the greater good  

Remember what I said about acting civil?

There's a pretty huge gap between calling someone "delusional or trolling" and a faggot.

No, it isn't. Both are meaningless, empty verbiage meant to insult and belittle the person you're talking to. Both carry no information, both are childish and rude.

Drawing a parallel between miners and a guy working at the gas station is a pretty dumb weak argument borderline trolling. If you weren't trolling, a more appropriate comparison would be between a miner and an oil drilling company, and arguing how the later doesn't hold any inventory? Or has a trade desk that speculates on oil price  

Do you think oil drilling companies own oil? Do they store it in their wine Oil Cellars too? In 55-gal drums, and the best in Mason jars, labeled "Sweet Crude"?
We live in different worlds.

But yeah keep pushing the idea of miners shooting themselves in a foot

Again: Stop trying to provoke me and start reading. I'm not a Miner's advocate. I'm not a big blocker, I'm simply trying to play things through. Now what's the point of turning neutral bystanders into enemies? Why do it?

But back on topic: tell me how a mining equivalent of a walkout would hurt them?
Or do you think workers who strike never get what they want?

For one, BTC is still an experiment, mining has been getting more and more competitive, profit margins are getting thinner. Miners are heavily invested in BTC and their survival depends on the BTC price, to a point where if BTC goes down say 10% they may never see a return on their investment. We've already seen few mining operators closing their doors because of thin margins. Now, one of the worst things for any market is uncertainty. So since their survival depends on BTC price, contributing any uncertainty to the market would be suicidal for them. They're well aware of this this is exactly why they're staying quiet and trying not to breath to hard for a fear of effecting anything.

Another aspect of this, is the main reason why we (small blockers?) are against bigger blocks. We feel that centralization is bitcoin's Achilles' Heel and is the #1 cause what might bring BTC down. As such it must be protected at all costs. Right now what is/(should) keep a bunch of devs awake at night is the centralization of miners in China. (Who would've thought that bitcoiners are a paranoid bunch?). Thus any proposed change must above all answer whether it helps security/(decentralization), if not it goes on a risk/benefit analysis and again being a paranoid bunch we tend to err on a side of caution. I don't believe i heard a single serious argument how bigger blocks help decentralization, best case you get is that the benefit outweighs the increase of centralization.

With that said, now imagine what would happen to the price when a group that we foresee as the biggest threat to BTC comes out and tries to force a hostile fork that would cause further centralization around them?? I for one say they can keep their inefficient paypal tokens and stick to less centralized chain or switch to alt.

tl;dr decentralization is THE REASON why people trust $10B in BTC. Best case for an entity that tries a hostile fork that gives them more centralization might end up being their worst case as they end up with a bunch of worthless ledger entries.

[DieJohnny]

We're down 19.5% from the $789 top, half a percent from a bear market, and still $500 down from the ATH two and a half years ago. I blame the delayed recovery on Core and the lack of on chain scaling.

ATH was phony GOX price point. Probably would never have made it half that far with a real market. As for current 789 top. You are in a healthy correction in a perpetually growing valuation.

Right now with the halving Bitcoin is in new price discovery mode. I wouldn't be surprised that this current triangle resolves down instead of up. Probably needs to go sub $600 to kick off next big leg up.

Block size is not a concern for BTC because BTC is not a transaction type of currency, it is a store of value currency. Nobody cares if it takes 10 minutes to transact in bitcoin because that has been how long it has taken for confirmation since inception. And nobody that is waiting 10 minutes is buying a cup of coffee.

What is a concern is competition. I think there is a 50% chance that Bitcoin is replaced within a year with a higher valuation currency. Bitcoin is currently one alt-bubble away from being lapped... once that happens chaos will ensue because there will be just too many choices competing for crytpo dollars.

[adamstgBit]

.... segwit will incress node cost and have the EXACT same "centralizing" effect as a 2MB HF.

segwit's "2MB effective block size".... idk why they didnt just call it  segwit's "Magical capacity incress."

lol wake up poeple you've been lied to and manipulated.