Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[buyandhold]

Trading Altcoins and Bitcoin with your Trezor  

https://medium.com/faast/how-to-make-effortless-cross-chain-trades-with-a-trezor-wallet-50f6e85fe923

What are the fees?

https://www.faa.st/pricing
.5% +tx fees +slippage - can't find what market they use.
Anyone used it? dyor essential

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[realr0ach]

There are only two camps of people, those that believe in sound, physical money that actually exists in the real world like silver and gold, and those that believe in completely arbitrary, imaginary, valueless tokens like US dollars, bitcoins, and Chuck E Cheese tokens.

Do US dollars have a hard cap? No.
Do US dollars have a predictable issuance schedule? No.
Do Chuck E Cheese tokens have a hard cap? No.
Do Chuck E Cheese tokens have a predictable issuance schedule? No.

Do Bitcoins have a hard cap? Yes.
Do Bitcoins have a predictable issuance schedule? Yes.

Therefore it is either stupid or disingenuous to lump Bitcoins in with these obvious
scam projects like US dollars or Chuck E Cheese tokens.

You cannot be serious.  I'm not some type of idiot-sucker like all you people that can be fooled by cut and pasting Andreas Antonopolous used car salesman lies.  Bitcoin has NOTHING close to a Nash equilibrium, which means none of this shit is true.  It's just a designed to centralize power vacuum to be taken over and exploited.  This is not some far off in the future thing, it happened almost immediately after the first ASIC was released.  It was at that point there was no reason for bitcoin to exist.

SURE, if the completely centralized transaction validators do something you don't like such as increasing the coin count or trying to ram in chain anchor to fully realize the police state function of bitcoin you can attempt to fork off into a different chain, but it's you that would be the altcoin, not the tyrants with power over the original chain.  The people who centralized the original chain have done absolutely nothing wrong, they have only utilized bitcoin the way it was designed - to completely centralize under them.

Your only options at this point are either continuous forking to infinity and death by diffusion with no valid Schelling Point (not a valid option), or obeying whoever the transaction validators centralize under in some type of Orwellian dystopia.  They, or their small cartel, can collude to jack transaction fees to whatever they want, block anyone's transactions they want if you don't worship the state, or any other option that amuses them.  So all you're getting out of this is either a failed experiment or complete dystopia, pick one.  This is why the fundamentals of silver and gold completely destroy this garbage.  Shitcoins have no fundamentals because it's 100% impossible to create a decentralized digital currency.

[Dakustaking76]

Okey so whats next???


Were gonne drop to €3k???

[infofront]

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00003279106
Some doofus (LANDSVERK, Kjell Halvor - Oct '79) in Fulham, UK, trademarked the word bitcoin for clothes, booze etc.

Well He should RIGHT AWAY go sue...

umm...

start a case against...

umm...

Vitali.. no wait.

umm...

Meaningless trademark is meaningless.

He could sue Craig Wright.

[realr0ach]

“In February, it became known that the Tether accounts of Bitfinex were opened in the Dutch bank ING, owned by The Rothschild Group.

It was pretty obvious even when the bitcoin price was low in the several hundreds of dollars that there was way too much seemingly infinitely printed money appearing out of the void.  It was far too easy to make money because it always felt like someone was propping up the entire scene from behind the curtain all the way from $200+ whether it was in bitcoin or altcoins.  Now you have the source of what was behind that magical curtain.

[bones261]

There are only two camps of people, those that believe in sound, physical money that actually exists in the real world like silver and gold, and those that believe in completely arbitrary, imaginary, valueless tokens like US dollars, bitcoins, and Chuck E Cheese tokens.

Do US dollars have a hard cap? No.
Do US dollars have a predictable issuance schedule? No.
Do Chuck E Cheese tokens have a hard cap? No.
Do Chuck E Cheese tokens have a predictable issuance schedule? No.

Do Bitcoins have a hard cap? Yes.
Do Bitcoins have a predictable issuance schedule? Yes.

Therefore it is either stupid or disingenuous to lump Bitcoins in with these obvious
scam projects like US dollars or Chuck E Cheese tokens.

You cannot be serious.  I'm not some type of idiot-sucker like all you people that can be fooled by cut and pasting Andreas Antonopolous used car salesman lies.  Bitcoin has NOTHING close to a Nash equilibrium, which means none of this shit is true.  It's just a designed to centralize power vacuum to be taken over and exploited.  This is not some far off in the future thing, it happened almost immediately after the first ASIC was released.  It was at that point there was no reason for bitcoin to exist.

SURE, if the completely centralized transaction validators do something you don't like such as increasing the coin count or trying to ram in chain anchor to fully realize the police state function of bitcoin you can attempt to fork off into a different chain, but it's you that would be the altcoin, not the tyrants with power over the original chain.  The people who centralized the original chain have done absolutely nothing wrong, they have only utilized bitcoin the way it was designed - to completely centralize under them.

Your only options at this point are either continuous forking to infinity and death by diffusion with no valid Schelling Point (not a valid option), or obeying whoever the transaction validators centralize under in some type of Orwellian dystopia.  They, or their small cartel, can collude to jack transaction fees to whatever they want, block anyone's transactions they want if you don't worship the state, or any other option that amuses them.  So all you're getting out of this is either a failed experiment or complete dystopia, pick one.  This is why the fundamentals of silver and gold completely destroy this garbage.  Shitcoins have no fundamentals because it's 100% impossible to create a decentralized digital currency.

And exactly how is switching to gold and silver bullion going to get the government off of our backs? Wouldn't the governments and the religious leaders end up getting a substantial portion of the gold and silver, anyway? Wouldn't they then use the gold and silver to raise up armies and bully the rest of us into handing them even more of our gold and silver via taxes and other forms of extortion?

[d_eddie]

Blah blah

Do US dollars have a hard cap? No.
Do US dollars have a predictable issuance schedule? No.
Do Chuck E Cheese tokens have a hard cap? No.
Do Chuck E Cheese tokens have a predictable issuance schedule? No.

Do Bitcoins have a hard cap? Yes.
Do Bitcoins have a predictable issuance schedule? Yes.

Therefore it is either stupid or disingenuous to lump Bitcoins in with these obvious
scam projects like US dollars or Chuck E Cheese tokens.

Blah blah centralize blah blah

And exactly how is switching to gold and silver bullion going to get the government off of our backs? Wouldn't the governments and the religious leaders end up getting a substantial portion of the gold and silver, anyway? Wouldn't they then use the gold and silver to raise up armies and bully the rest of us into handing them even more of our gold and silver via taxes and other forms of extortion?

Bones, you too still quoting him-who-must-not-be-quoted?

[realr0ach]

And exactly how is switching to gold and silver bullion going to get the government off of our backs? Wouldn't the governments and the religious leaders end up getting a substantial portion of the gold and silver, anyway? Wouldn't they then use the gold and silver to raise up armies and bully the rest of us into handing them even more of our gold and silver via taxes and other forms of extortion?

This is all off-base, nonsense you're speaking.  The goal of the moneychangers is CONTROL.  They have already accumulated unimaginable wealth.  How we arrive at this point is mostly related to things like Maslow's pyramid.  These Jewish moneychanger like to make believe they're some type of advanced lifeform - 'aristocrats', but they're really just primitive monkeys governed by wants and desires most primitive monkeys are governed by.  

After they've secured the basic needs - the base of objects on rudimentary pyramids like Maslow - they then move up to the next level of desires.  It turns out monkeys are crazy, primitive, Freudian dumbasses and have most of their desires rooted in things like reproduction, and part of that paradigm of thought is the desire of the monkey to rule over and dominate all the other monkeys to secure their reproductive lot.  It doesn't really matter if these people are 90 years old and can't even have sex at all, they're like a dysfunctional robot that still wants to setup their ideal hierarchy of domination over others to maximize reproductive potential.

Since shitcoins have nothing resembling a Nash equilibrium, and it's 100% impossible to create a decentralized digital currency, they're just power vacuums for someone or a cartel to step in and take over - a technocratic dystopia. These fit well into the psycho, Freudian monkey paradigm to rule over others.  Silver and gold, on the other hand, do not have built-in middlemen (transaction validators) like shitcoins do.  They are poor systems of control.  The goal is to destroy the systems of control that a handful of monkeys use to enslave the planet.  Metals work well to accomplish this task, while shitcoins just help to increase enslavement levels.

[El duderino_]

QUICK list 12288 is finisht GOOD LUCK   WO's

16/04/2018 serveria.com
27/04/2018 BinaryReign
28/04/2018 Toxic2040
29/04/2018 BobLawblaw
30/04/2018 RayX12
05/05/2018 kaicrypzen
07/05/2018 InvoKing
08/05/2018 ChinkyEyes
13/05/2018 mfort312
15/05/2018 Paashaas
16/05/2018 player99
17/05/2018 bikerleszno
19/05/2018 Bitcoinaire
20/05/2018 willope
21/05/2018 rafanadal
22/05/2018 strawbs
24/05/2018 yonton
25/05/2018 JimboToronto
26/05/2018 Colonel Panic
29/05/2018 ivomm
30/05/2018 Lontonbit
31/05/2018 BTCMILLIONAIRE
01/06/2018 RoomBot
02/06/2018 rjclarke2000
03/06/2018 oblox
04/06/2018 wachtwoord
05/06/2018 Wekkel
08/06/2018 hisslyness
09/06/2018 LodisMcguire
11/06/2018 Raja_MBZ
12/06/2018 bitcoinPsycho
13/06/2018 erre
14/06/2018 vroom
15/06/2018 d_eddie
16/06/2018 coralreefer
18/06/2018 Robin,Hood
20/06/2018 rolling
22/06/2018 Biodom
23/06/2018 Dunkelheit667
25/06/2018 bones261
26/06/2018 Arriemoller
28/06/2018 klaaas
30/06/2018 DarkStar_
01/07/2018 o_e_l_e_o
02/07/2018 jojo69
03/07/2018 Karatma1
04/07/2018 Elwar
13/07/2018 sirazimuth
14/07/2018 Ludwig Von
21/07/2018 Lauda
22/07/2018 LFC_Bitcoin
26/07/2018 Icygreen
02/08/2018 fragout
03/08/2018 supremnoob
06/08/2018 cAPSLOCK
08/08/2018 infofront
10/08/2018 HairyMaclairy
15/08/2018 Phil_S
16/08/2018 Rosewater Foundation
17/08/2018 B1tUnl0ck3r
19/08/2018 Imbatman
21/08/2018 BitcoinBunny
27/08/2018 soullyG
28/08/2018 RealMachasm
29/08/2018 STT
04/09/2018 flynn
08/09/2018 xhomerx10
09/09/2018 vapourminer
11/09/2018 Dakustaking76
20/09/2018 Digigami
22/09/2018 Agapios
26/09/2018 itod
30/09/2018 DeathAngel
12/10/2018 IntroVert
15/10/2018 explorer
18/10/2018 Searing
26/10/2018 kurious
09/11/2018 fabiorem
15/11/2018 bitserve
20/11/2018 Globb0
22/11/2018 Last of the V8s
01/12/2018 Alexander_Z
07/03/2019 CoinCube
15/04/2019 Spaceman_Spiff_Original
20/06/2019 bitebits
13/12/2019 nikauforest
10/04/2020 yefi
05/09/2020 samson   
23/06/2021 fortune143             

[El duderino_]

Okey so whats next???


Were gonne drop to €3k???

thinking BTC is just testing the doug polk 10K bet

[bones261]

And exactly how is switching to gold and silver bullion going to get the government off of our backs? Wouldn't the governments and the religious leaders end up getting a substantial portion of the gold and silver, anyway? Wouldn't they then use the gold and silver to raise up armies and bully the rest of us into handing them even more of our gold and silver via taxes and other forms of extortion?

This is all off-base, nonsense you're speaking.  The goal of the moneychangers is CONTROL.  They have already accumulated unimaginable wealth.  How we arrive at this point is mostly related to things like Maslow's pyramid.  These Jewish moneychanger like to make believe they're some type of advanced lifeform - 'aristocrats', but they're really just primitive monkeys governed by wants and desires most primitive monkeys are governed by.  

After they've secured the basic needs - the base of objects on rudimentary pyramids like Maslow - they then move up to the next level of desires.  It turns out monkeys are crazy, primitive, Freudian dumbasses and have most of their desires rooted in things like reproduction, and part of that paradigm of thought is the desire of the monkey to rule over and dominate all the other monkeys to secure their reproductive lot.  It doesn't really matter if these people are 90 years old and can't even have sex at all, they're like a dysfunctional robot that still wants to setup their ideal hierarchy of domination over others to maximize reproductive potential.

Since shitcoins have nothing resembling a Nash equilibrium, and it's 100% impossible to create a decentralized digital currency, they're just power vacuums for someone or a cartel to step in and take over - a technocratic dystopia. These fit well into the psycho, Freudian monkey paradigm to rule over others.  Silver and gold, on the other hand, do not have built-in middlemen (transaction validators) like shitcoins do.  They are poor systems of control.  The goal is to destroy the systems of control that a handful of monkeys use to illogically enslave the planet.  Metals work well to accomplish this task, while shitcoins just help to increase enslavement levels.

Oh please. the way banknotes started in the first place is merchants wanted to store their gold at a bank, rather than lugging it around themselves or setting up their own fort and small militia to protect it. Then they were issued a piece of paper, a banknote. When the bankers discovered people were using the banknotes like money, they discovered a way to loan people paper and run a fractional reserve. It doesn't matter what medium you use as money. Someone is going to find a way to put them self in the middle and exact their usurious fees. Or they will just use force or stealth and outright steal your bounty.

[JayJuanGee]

Trading Altcoins and Bitcoin with your Trezor  

https://medium.com/faast/how-to-make-effortless-cross-chain-trades-with-a-trezor-wallet-50f6e85fe923

What are the fees?

https://www.faa.st/pricing
.5% +tx fees +slippage - can't find what market they use.
Anyone used it? dyor essential

Is that the service that is being used by Trezor?  From the link that you provided, the swap fee is paid on each side of the transaction, so if it is .5%, as it is listed in the example, then it would have to be x2 and therefore a total of 1% for the whole transaction.. that is how it appears, currently.

[Anon136]

you know what goes here

Oh please. the way banknotes started in the first place is merchants wanted to store their gold at a bank, rather than lugging it around themselves or setting up their own fort and small militia to protect it. Then they were issued a piece of paper, a banknote. When the bankers discovered people were using the banknotes like money, they discovered a way to loan people paper and run a fractional reserve. It doesn't matter what medium you use as money. Someone is going to find a way to put them self in the middle and exact their usurious fees. Or just plain use force or stealth and outright steal your bounty.

Interestingly, the first technology to be developed since the advent of fractional reserve banking that actually has a real chance of putting a stop to most of the double counting of reserve assets is... drum-roll... blockchain!

[realr0ach]

And exactly how is switching to gold and silver bullion going to get the government off of our backs? Wouldn't the governments and the religious leaders end up getting a substantial portion of the gold and silver, anyway? Wouldn't they then use the gold and silver to raise up armies and bully the rest of us into handing them even more of our gold and silver via taxes and other forms of extortion?

This is all off-base, nonsense you're speaking.  The goal of the moneychangers is CONTROL.  They have already accumulated unimaginable wealth.  How we arrive at this point is mostly related to things like Maslow's pyramid.  These Jewish moneychanger like to make believe they're some type of advanced lifeform - 'aristocrats', but they're really just primitive monkeys governed by wants and desires most primitive monkeys are governed by.  

After they've secured the basic needs - the base of objects on rudimentary pyramids like Maslow - they then move up to the next level of desires.  It turns out monkeys are crazy, primitive, Freudian dumbasses and have most of their desires rooted in things like reproduction, and part of that paradigm of thought is the desire of the monkey to rule over and dominate all the other monkeys to secure their reproductive lot.  It doesn't really matter if these people are 90 years old and can't even have sex at all, they're like a dysfunctional robot that still wants to setup their ideal hierarchy of domination over others to maximize reproductive potential.

Since shitcoins have nothing resembling a Nash equilibrium, and it's 100% impossible to create a decentralized digital currency, they're just power vacuums for someone or a cartel to step in and take over - a technocratic dystopia. These fit well into the psycho, Freudian monkey paradigm to rule over others.  Silver and gold, on the other hand, do not have built-in middlemen (transaction validators) like shitcoins do.  They are poor systems of control.  The goal is to destroy the systems of control that a handful of monkeys use to illogically enslave the planet.  Metals work well to accomplish this task, while shitcoins just help to increase enslavement levels.

Oh please. the way banknotes started in the first place is merchants wanted to store their gold at a bank, rather than lugging it around themselves or setting up their own fort and small militia to protect it. Then they were issued a piece of paper, a banknote. When the bankers discovered people were using the banknotes like money, they discovered a way to loan people paper and run a fractional reserve. It doesn't matter what medium you use as money. Someone is going to find a way to put them self in the middle and exact their usurious fees.

This has nothing to do with metals in general.  It can happen to shitcoins and any other thing you attempt to use as a monetary instrument.  You have simply discovered possession is 9/10ths of the law.  Unless you can hold something in your hand and defend it with an AR15 from someone attempting to take it from you, you don't own it.  The moral of the story is, don't accept IOUs or anything with middlemen or counterparty risk.

Bitcoin has built-in middlemen - transaction validators who can approve or blacklist your tokens, amongst thousands of other individuals in the world from people working at the power company, to programmers, etc., that are needed to keep the thing running.  It does not require thousands of other counterparties just for silver or gold to exist.  They exist whether all those idiots like it or give permission for it to or not.  Metals are the only real permissionless system of money.

[bones261]

you know what goes here

Oh please. the way banknotes started in the first place is merchants wanted to store their gold at a bank, rather than lugging it around themselves or setting up their own fort and small militia to protect it. Then they were issued a piece of paper, a banknote. When the bankers discovered people were using the banknotes like money, they discovered a way to loan people paper and run a fractional reserve. It doesn't matter what medium you use as money. Someone is going to find a way to put them self in the middle and exact their usurious fees. Or just plain use force or stealth and outright steal your bounty.

Interestingly, the first technology to be developed since the advent of fractional reserve banking that actually has a real chance of putting a stop to most of the double counting of reserve assets is... drum-roll... blockchain!

I'm sorry. I don't subscribe to your point of view either.  All I have seen in the 4 years in this cryptocurrency space is scam after scam and scheme after scheme. There is no salvation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPVpMxVn6mk

[JayJuanGee]

Okey so whats next???


Were gonne drop to €3k???

thinking BTC is just testing the doug polk 10K bet

I haven't seen anything from DPolk, recently, but I would imagine that he must be getting a bit nervous..... Tone Vays did have the better side of the bet in terms of being able to use the bet as leverage.. but it did seem that DPolk did make what seemed to be a reasonably decent bet in which odds seemed to be working pretty good for him.. and not so much now..

[bones261]

This has nothing to do with metals in general.  It can happen to shitcoins and any other thing you attempt to use as a monetary instrument.  You have simply discovered possesion is 9/10ths of the law.  Unless you can hold something in your hand and defend it with an AR15 from someone attempting to take it from you, you don't own it.  The moral of the story is, don't accept IOUs or anything with middlemen or counterparty risk.

Bitcoin has built-in middlemen - transaction validators who can approve or blacklist your tokens, amongst thousands of other individuals in the world from people working at the power company, to programmers, etc., that are needed to keep the thing running.  It does not require thousands of other counterparties just for silver or gold to exist.  They exist whether all those idiots like it or give permission for it to or not.  Metals are the only real permissionless system.

And what good is my AR15 going to do against someone who takes me by surprise or a group that outnumbers me? Perhaps I can ally myself with other people, and form a militia. But then I have to trust those people. In the end, it's the people you trust that have the highest probability of screwing you over. It's a dilemma, either I can trust no one, strike out on my own,  and end up being overwhelmed. Or I can put my trust in other people and end up getting the shaft.

[bitserve]

Oh please. the way banknotes started in the first place is merchants wanted to store their gold at a bank, rather than lugging it around themselves or setting up their own fort and small militia to protect it. Then they were issued a piece of paper, a banknote. When the bankers discovered people were using the banknotes like money, they discovered a way to loan people paper and run a fractional reserve. It doesn't matter what medium you use as money. Someone is going to find a way to put them self in the middle and exact their usurious fees. Or just plain use force or stealth and outright steal your bounty.

Interestingly, the first technology to be developed since the advent of fractional reserve banking that actually has a real chance of putting a stop to most of the double counting of reserve assets is... drum-roll... blockchain!

Except not even exchanges are currently using that "feature".

Thanks to blockchain exchanges could be already guaranteeing they don't run fractional reserve. It would be as simple as this:

- Every exchange user is given a "unique private identifier".
- Every day, the exchange publish a balance sheet that comprises a listing of all UPI's and its individual balances. The total is the minimum amount of reserves the exchange must control to prove absence of fractional reserve "banking".
- Simultaneously the exchange publish a listing of addresses which individual balances (can be checked on their respective blockchains for accuracy) sum, at least, the total needed. Obviously they sign a timestamped code with those addresses to prove ownership.

- Individual users could check their balances are included and accounted for in the balance sheet.

... But not a single one exchange is still doing this. Wonder why.....

[gembitz]

you know what goes here

Oh please. the way banknotes started in the first place is merchants wanted to store their gold at a bank, rather than lugging it around themselves or setting up their own fort and small militia to protect it. Then they were issued a piece of paper, a banknote. When the bankers discovered people were using the banknotes like money, they discovered a way to loan people paper and run a fractional reserve. It doesn't matter what medium you use as money. Someone is going to find a way to put them self in the middle and exact their usurious fees. Or just plain use force or stealth and outright steal your bounty.

Interestingly, the first technology to be developed since the advent of fractional reserve banking that actually has a real chance of putting a stop to most of the double counting of reserve assets is... drum-roll... blockchain!

I'm sorry. I don't subscribe to your point of view either.  All I have seen in the 4 years in this cryptocurrency space is scam after scam and scheme after scheme. There is no salvation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPVpMxVn6mk

(((trust me))))
BTI is going to be making waves in the grassroots/community cypherpunk 2018 space Bitcoin foreverrrrr >_> KILL ALL TOKENS!!!!

https://freiexchange.com/market/BTI/BTC

[realr0ach]

Zerohedge seems to have released some bullshit story concerning craptocurrencies and Venezuela today:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-25/nearly-every-home-caracas-hiding-crypto-mining-operation

They are obviously not mining bitcoin because Venezeula is not sitting on tons of Bitmain S9's, and bitcoin transaction volume is the same right now as when it was only $200-400.  Venezeula population is 32 million, so what chain are these millions of transactions supposedly taking place? lol.  And how many millions of users are online at Poloniex right now if they are mining some obscure coin and converting them?  

Poloniex users currently online: 6431