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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25464079 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (157 posts by 13+ users deleted.)
kingcolex
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May 27, 2018, 01:11:00 AM

Proof that the ICO lunacy is going to a whole new level of stupid.

https://nypost.com/2018/05/25/crypto-stunt-on-mount-everest-turns-deadly/

If only the Darwin award had gone to those ICO guys instead of their poor Sherpa.  Roll Eyes
Fucking shitcoins and their scamming creators, they're all a pain. An altcoin doesn't have to be bad, no ico, no premine, no bullshit and decent features and it doesn't hurt us.

How they going to make money if their is not some scam or scheme?  Haven't you heard of vulture capitalism?  It is a form of taking something (such as building off of the good will of bitcoin), and then selling off the profits of the previous efforts without paying for those previous efforts.
yeah it's fucked and most shitcoins are fucked up and just a means for the devs to get paid. Regardless this price spike down is painful, it was quiet earlier and now double spikes in like an hour.

Well, yeah.

Part of the problem is that they all come out with ICO's because they are looking at short term ways to "get paid," perhaps they even leave bitcoin because they want to "get paid," and they are not happy in itself being involved in the greatness of bitcoin... so they make their own coin in which they can get paid... hahahahaha.. might work for some of them to scam the peeps, rather than really working on a meaningful project.
Honestly I have an idea for an altcoin but the current spread of them are so horrendous I just don't even want to get into the development, the true reason for Altcoins are to be experiments that if good enough Bitcoin adapts and takes.

Those kind of consciousness feelings should not stop you from wanting to get rich, right? 

What is the most important thing?  Getting rich, right?
You joke but many think so, we have a bad mindset in those willing to take risk in investments. We're trying to make a profit yes, but also we should focus on trying to make the world a better place and never damn the latter for the profit.

Yes... .. might seem like joke, but each of us has to find our motivations from the inside to figure out our direction.  What is more valuable to our personhood?  Getting rich fast or getting rich slow?  Each of us are going to come to conclusions that are tailored to our own upbringing and values...... which surely causes the world to go around with variations of perspectives.  There might be some altcoiners who have decent perspectives yet sometimes if they become rich too quickly, then that richness might cause them NOT to carry out their original project that they had said they were going to do, when they ICO'd... and yeah others, had no intention to carry out any project, but instead were just trying to attract money to their pie in the sky white paper.
Totally agree, the spirit is strong but the flesh is weak. The idea may be well but laziness or contempt comes easy.
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May 27, 2018, 01:24:15 AM

Damn if were gonne drop lower then €6k then Lets go!
Its taking to long, bitcoin died many times now..
Its time to go up man its boring like this

How long Will iT take like this, we go up and down up and down


I may take a while. The bear market of 2014/2015 took over a year of heartbreak. Who knows when we will get out of this cycle. Could be tomorrow, could be 2020 or later.
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May 27, 2018, 01:34:47 AM
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I don't think i will be that late. Adoption, LN progress... that's real value.
And then there's the halfening. Not that late, definitely.

EDIT Seems like the three of us - Dakustaking, bones and myself - have a problem wih our T's.
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May 27, 2018, 01:40:48 AM
Merited by infofront (1), jojo69 (1), bitserve (1)

kingcolex
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May 27, 2018, 01:50:52 AM


we need this in DocuSign obviously and you should have known better.
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May 27, 2018, 01:52:43 AM



That was funny. Now join us and BTFD!
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May 27, 2018, 02:01:21 AM

I don't think i will be that late. Adoption, LN progress... that's real value.
And then there's the halfening. Not that late, definitely.

EDIT Seems like the three of us - Dakustaking, bones and myself - have a problem wih our T's.

Must be a Freudian slip on my part. It appears that my stage of obsession with the BTC market has now grown to the point that I subconsciously feel that I am a bunch of red and green candles.
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May 27, 2018, 02:01:40 AM

MSM FUD on Price Manipulation Scams = Mega Dip.

https://www.techdr.com.np/2018/05/feds-open-probe-into-bitcoin-price.html

Buy the DIP & #HODL

A year or 2 from now this will all seem funny.
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May 27, 2018, 02:09:55 AM

MSM FUD on Price Manipulation Scams = Mega Dip.

https://www.techdr.com.np/2018/05/feds-open-probe-into-bitcoin-price.html

Buy the DIP & #HODL

A year or 2 from now this will all seem funny.

I've already set a bot to BTFD and scalp when it rises a bit and I'm running out of fiat. REKT.  Cry
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May 27, 2018, 02:23:47 AM

I leave for two fucking days

Jesus Christ you guys, do I have to do everything?

What? You don't like our Delicious Discounted BTC Dip for $7350?  Stock up for your retirement fund!

You're welcome!
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May 27, 2018, 02:29:36 AM

MSM FUD on Price Manipulation Scams = Mega Dip.

https://www.techdr.com.np/2018/05/feds-open-probe-into-bitcoin-price.html

Buy the DIP & #HODL

A year or 2 from now this will all seem funny.

Damn, I hope you are correct.... on the other hand my original knc Jupiter Miner of BTC in 2013 cost me (if I remember right) $5,131.80...thus all my BTC and ALTs etc

have come from that small seed..thru mining only.....thus, I can be stubborn and wait this out until BTC is $513.18 usd ...before I can 'officially' call this all a 'loss' on my part in any way or form...

(obviously, I'm quite mad, in HODL mode..but being being crazy these days..of 2018....is like a warm and fuzzy blanket....not at all odd....so hell, go with the flow...)



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May 27, 2018, 02:31:35 AM

I leave for two fucking days

Jesus Christ you guys, do I have to do everything?

What? You don't like our Delicious Discounted BTC Dip for $7350?  Stock up for your retirement fund!

You're welcome!

Good thing that I already have Ramen as a snack everyday. It appears there is going to be some lean times up ahead. Better crack open that book of Ramen recipes someone gave me a few years ago so that I can now enjoy for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Bonus: with the new Ramen diet plan, I won't need to worry about a long retirement, if I reach retirement at all...  Cheesy
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May 27, 2018, 02:57:47 AM

I leave for two fucking days

Jesus Christ you guys, do I have to do everything?

What? You don't like our Delicious Discounted BTC Dip for $7350?  Stock up for your retirement fund!

You're welcome!

Good thing that I already have Ramen as a snack everyday. It appears there is going to be some lean times up ahead. Better crack open that book of Ramen recipes someone gave me a few years ago so that I can now enjoy for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Bonus: with the new Ramen diet plan, I won't need to worry about a long retirement, if I reach retirement at all...  Cheesy

Talking about retirement. I have always have a doubt about how do retirement pensions work in the usa.

I think 401K (from what I have read here and googling a bit) is some sort private retirements savings pensions. Whilst it is individual choice the employer contributes to it. Ok.... but it is additional to a social security state pension or is it that 401 IS the standard pension that everyone has?

I mean, is there a mandatory minimum state pension or it is the people choice to have one and some people could end with NO pension even if they did work for all their lives?

What is the minimum retirement age when you can start receiving that pension?

My main question is if it is somewhat like in most of euro zone where people are FORCED to contribute to the state pension and therefore have a "guaranteed" pension depending on how much they contributed over their work life or if it is the same as the medical cover where either you pay your insurance for it (or your employer, but not mandatory) or you could end up having to pay for all your medical expenses.
bitserve
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May 27, 2018, 03:09:10 AM

MSM FUD on Price Manipulation Scams = Mega Dip.

https://www.techdr.com.np/2018/05/feds-open-probe-into-bitcoin-price.html

Buy the DIP & #HODL

A year or 2 from now this will all seem funny.

Damn, I hope you are correct.... on the other hand my original knc Jupiter Miner of BTC in 2013 cost me (if I remember right) $5,131.80...thus all my BTC and ALTs etc

have come from that small seed..thru mining only.....thus, I can be stubborn and wait this out until BTC is $513.18 usd ...before I can 'officially' call this all a 'loss' on my part in any way or form...

(obviously, I'm quite mad, in HODL mode..but being being crazy these days..of 2018....is like a warm and fuzzy blanket....not at all odd....so hell, go with the flow...)





I think your calculation for the "break even" point is incorrect. Unless you only have 10 BTC (or the equivalent including alts) and never withdrew anything from your initial investment or -to be more precise- only withdrew enough for covering your mining running costs (electricity, work time, etc).
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May 27, 2018, 03:20:43 AM
Last edit: May 27, 2018, 03:32:09 AM by bones261
Merited by bitserve (1)

I leave for two fucking days

Jesus Christ you guys, do I have to do everything?

What? You don't like our Delicious Discounted BTC Dip for $7350?  Stock up for your retirement fund!

You're welcome!

Good thing that I already have Ramen as a snack everyday. It appears there is going to be some lean times up ahead. Better crack open that book of Ramen recipes someone gave me a few years ago so that I can now enjoy for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Bonus: with the new Ramen diet plan, I won't need to worry about a long retirement, if I reach retirement at all...  Cheesy

Talking about retirement. I have always have a doubt about how do retirement pensions work in the usa.

I think 401K (from what I have read here and googling a bit) is some sort private retirements savings pensions. Whilst it is individual choice the employer contributes to it. Ok.... but it is additional to a social security state pension or is it that 401 IS the standard pension that everyone has?

I mean, is there a mandatory minimum state pension or it is the people choice to have one and some people could end with NO pension even if they did work for all their lives?

What is the minimum retirement age when you can start receiving that pension?

My main question is if it is somewhat like in most of euro zone where people are FORCED to contribute to the state pension and therefore have a "guaranteed" pension depending on how much they contributed over their work life or if it is the same as the medical cover where either you pay yourself for it (or your employer, but not mandatory) or you could end up having to pay for all your medical expenses.

     No one is forced to contribute to a 401k. If your employer offers a 401K, they can take money out of your paycheck, and the tax on that amount will be deferred until you withdraw from your 401K. If you draw out of your 401K before retirement age of 59 1/2, you will have to pay a penalty of 10% on top of the tax. Many employers that offer a 401k also include a match. Most companies match 50% of what the employee contributes. The catch is that you usually have to work for an employer for a certain amount of time before you are fully vested and can claim this portion if you leave the employer. My employer has a vesting schedule of 5 years.
     Another option for retirement is an standard IRA and a Roth IRA. In a standard IRA, you get to defer your taxes on your contributions. However, if you withdraw before age 59 1/2, you will pay a penalty on top of the taxes. In a Roth IRA, you pay the tax on the contributions. If you withdraw before 59 1/2, you only pay the penalty and the tax on the income, not the contributions. If you withdraw after you are 59 1/2, the money is tax free.
    Then we have social security. Social security is a tax that everyone must pay. (I think some government employees are exempt. But I am unsure.)You pay a portion and your employer pays a portion. If you are self employed, you pay both portions. Although the Social Security program has run at a surplus for quite sometime, the government has used the money for other things and replaced it with bonds. Also, the Baby Boomer generation (people born from 1948-1960 in the US) are now reaching retirement. So I do not believe the Social Security program is running at an excess anymore. If it is, it won't be for long unless they lessen the benefits or raise the tax. You can begin to collect social security at age 62, but your benefit will be reduced.. You can wait to get the full benefit at a certain age. the exact age and penalty for early retirement depends on when you were born. the chart can be found, here. https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/agereduction.html
bitserve
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May 27, 2018, 03:45:30 AM

I leave for two fucking days

Jesus Christ you guys, do I have to do everything?

What? You don't like our Delicious Discounted BTC Dip for $7350?  Stock up for your retirement fund!

You're welcome!

Good thing that I already have Ramen as a snack everyday. It appears there is going to be some lean times up ahead. Better crack open that book of Ramen recipes someone gave me a few years ago so that I can now enjoy for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Bonus: with the new Ramen diet plan, I won't need to worry about a long retirement, if I reach retirement at all...  Cheesy

Talking about retirement. I have always have a doubt about how do retirement pensions work in the usa.

I think 401K (from what I have read here and googling a bit) is some sort private retirements savings pensions. Whilst it is individual choice the employer contributes to it. Ok.... but it is additional to a social security state pension or is it that 401 IS the standard pension that everyone has?

I mean, is there a mandatory minimum state pension or it is the people choice to have one and some people could end with NO pension even if they did work for all their lives?

What is the minimum retirement age when you can start receiving that pension?

My main question is if it is somewhat like in most of euro zone where people are FORCED to contribute to the state pension and therefore have a "guaranteed" pension depending on how much they contributed over their work life or if it is the same as the medical cover where either you pay yourself for it (or your employer, but not mandatory) or you could end up having to pay for all your medical expenses.

     No one is forced to contribute to a 401k. If your employer offers a 401K, they can take money out of your paycheck, and the tax on that amount will be deferred until you withdraw from your 401K. If you draw out of your 401K before retirement age of 59 1/2, you will have to pay a penalty of 10% on top of the tax. Many employers that offer a 401k also include a match. Most companies match 50% of what the employee contributes. The catch is that you usually have to work for an employer for a certain amount of time before you are fully vested and can claim this portion if you leave the employer. My employer has a vesting schedule of 5 years.
     Another option for retirement is an standard IRA and a Roth IRA. In a standard IRA, you get to defer your taxes on your contributions. However, if you withdraw before age 59 1/2, you will pay a penalty on top of the taxes. In a Roth IRA, you pay the tax on the contributions. If you withdraw before 59 1/2, you only pay the penalty and the tax on the income, not the contributions. If you withdraw after you are 59 1/2, the money is tax free.
    Then we have social security. Social security is a tax that everyone must pay. (I think some government employees are exempt. But I am unsure.)You pay a portion and your employer pays a portion. If you are self employed, you pay both portions. Although the Social Security program has run at a surplus for quite sometime, the government has used the money for other things and replaced it with bonds. Also, the Baby Boomer generation (people born from 1948-1960 in the US) are now reaching retirement. So I do not believe the Social Security program is running at an excess anymore. If it is, it won't be for long unless they lessen the benefits or raise the tax. You can begin to collect social security at age 62, but your benefit will be reduced.. You can wait to get the full benefit at a certain age. the exact age and penalty for early retirement depends on when you were born. the chart can be found, here. https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/agereduction.html

I think I get it now. 401K, IRA, etc... are private (individual choice) retirement/savings plans same like here.

Social security also seems to be the same than here (except for the medical care, that it is fully included for everyone no matter how much they contributed or if they have additional private medical plans) .

Also it is the same situation in that the cashflow has been reduced due to the poblation growth (or lack of younger workforce in relation to retirees) and the retirement age has keep increasing. To me it will be, at least, 67 (maybe they will increase it higher by the time I reach it).

It is also the same in that it is expected that they will have to increase contributions or reduce pensions sometime in the future as currently the cashflow is already negative and the reserves are almost empty The money will have to come from somewhere to keep current benefits....

Currently the social security pensions for people that had good salaries "guarantees" and get the max are more than enough for a reasonable retirement even without the need of additional private pension plans or significant previous savings..... but that is probably going to change in the future.

I think have never read people talking about social security when discussing about retirement here and only about 401k's, IRA, etc so I had the doubt if that there was the case that no (forced) social security was in effect in USA. Or maybe the current amounts of that social security are so small in comparison to previous salaries that noone takes it into account?
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May 27, 2018, 04:00:56 AM

Do you really get rekt every time, bones, or is it just preventive whining?

(You're free not to answer this, of course. It's just a cocky opening.)

I'd try and make the bet smaller relative to my playroll, keeping leverage at maybe 3 tops, 1~1.5 even better. "Going long" can actually mean buying a few cents and stashing away. So can "taking profit." Increasing the amount in the freezer is probably the most hopeful subgoal to gambling with 100% house money.

I mean: you know a few things about retirement and taxes. I'm sure you made a few calculations. I know you understand this magical internet money fairly well, too. Come on.
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May 27, 2018, 04:11:59 AM


I think I get it now. 401K, IRA, etc... are private (individual choice) retirement/savings plans same like here.

Social security also seems to be the same than here (except for the medical care, that it is fully included for everyone no matter how much they contributed or if they have additional private medical plans) .

Also it is the same situation in that the cashflow has been reduced due to the poblation growth (or lack of younger workforce in relation to retirees) and the retirement age has keep increasing. To me it will be, at least, 67 (maybe they will increase it higher by the time I reach it).

It is also the same in that it is expected that they will have to increase contributions or reduce pensions sometime in the future as currently the cashflow is already negative and the reserves are almost empty The money will have to come from somewhere to keep current benefits....

Currently the social security pensions for people that had good salaries "guarantees" and get the max are more than enough for a reasonable retirement even without the need of additional private pension plans or significant previous savings..... but that is probably going to change in the future.

I think have never read people talking about social security when discussing about retirement here and only about 401k's, IRA, etc so I had the doubt if that there was the case that no (forced) social security was in effect in USA. Or maybe the current amounts of that social security are so small in comparison to previous salaries that noone takes it into account?

Unfortunately the maximum Social Security benefit someone can get right now is $2,639 at full retirement age, a little more if you wait until you are 70. Most people did not earn enough to get that amount. If someone is going to be planning on living just on their Social Security benefits, they will be living in poverty or close to it and will need additional aid such as Section 8 housing and food stamps.
At age 65, almost everyone is entitled to part A Medicare which covers hospital stays. If you want part B, which covers other services not related to a hospital stay or part D which is drug coverage, you will have to pay a premium that comes out of your social security check. Many people on social security are living at the poverty level or close to it, so those people can get Medicaid. Medicaid will pay for the part B and part D premium for you, and will also "cover" the deductible and copays. (Actually, the Medicare allowable is higher than the Medicaid allowable. So what really happens is the Medical professional gets the Medicare payment and then writes off the balance. In order for a doctor or medical professional to accept Medicare and Medicaid, they must agree to write this off, by law.)
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May 27, 2018, 04:18:09 AM

MSM FUD on Price Manipulation Scams = Mega Dip.

https://www.techdr.com.np/2018/05/feds-open-probe-into-bitcoin-price.html

Buy the DIP & #HODL

A year or 2 from now this will all seem funny.

Damn, I hope you are correct.... on the other hand my original knc Jupiter Miner of BTC in 2013 cost me (if I remember right) $5,131.80...thus all my BTC and ALTs etc

have come from that small seed..thru mining only.....thus, I can be stubborn and wait this out until BTC is $513.18 usd ...before I can 'officially' call this all a 'loss' on my part in any way or form...

(obviously, I'm quite mad, in HODL mode..but being being crazy these days..of 2018....is like a warm and fuzzy blanket....not at all odd....so hell, go with the flow...)





I think your calculation for the "break even" point is incorrect. Unless you only have 10 BTC (or the equivalent including alts) and never withdrew anything from your initial investment or -to be more precise- only withdrew enough for covering your mining running costs (electricity, work time, etc).

yep..that is pretty much true....I ONLY had the miner....from that miner to pump the income (yep legal with IRS too from day one) for ALL the stuff you mentioned flowed from this income...I worked with disabled

folk...never a lot of money in that ..thus the mining had

to stand on its own....also remember I fired up this KNC Jupiter BTC miner on Oct 18th 2013 and that day BTC was almost exactly $150 (I looked at worldcoinindex..but they don't go back till 2013 or I can't read

the graph) .....and I think (again if I remember right) I was making ONE BTC per day.....

and yeah, mostly was in HODL mode for everything ...except those things that were for mining....I also have a mess of Altcoins that more than make up for what you are talking about...for any 'slush' after the

BTC stuff...

so yeah, a case could be made that REALLY the only money I have in crypto 'out of my job' was the $5,131.80 usd for the KNC Jupiter of 2013.......so the revenue I have used/bought miners with etc...and what

I have left over in HODL mode..is indeed profits....thus a case again could be made that I 'mentally' could claim that anything above the $5,131.80 was profit..in that all the expenses for future expansion came

from that one machine....thus $513.18 BTC would be the most definative extreme example of denial of loss of $$$ after any number under that point for BTC (again not counting the significant ALT's slush on

the assumption I'd sell all that before getting to such an extreme point...

just the way it worked out....I retired as of 1/14/18 this year due to crypto...trying to use crypto to bridge the gap between 63 years and full retirement and traditional investments at 66 with soc sec etc

same 'dubious' lifestyle' $$$ wise if I 1) work 2) use crypto till 66 3) crypto goes tulips after 66 again, same modest dubious suburban ghetto lifestyle

so if it all goes tulips I am going to make t-shirts to befuddle those who will say 'I told you so' that say


Crypto: Allowed me to retire 3 years early, bite me!

Thus, if nothing else comes from the miracle of tripping over BTC in 2013....I can say at least that I man'd up and gave it my all....hell, I'm 63 years old ...I have worse problems then BTC and crypto going tulips!

(what do they say: write a book, plant a tree, make a fortune and lose a fortune......we will be the first to know I guess)

brad
 

p.s. the above while not exactly correct....is a way to look at it from the perspective of which I started.....(in the PSU's I'll have left over alone!) but as a mental viewpoint on the ups and downs of all this

stuff and how serious to take it all..it works for me. Smiley Also as far as the work/time thing...even if it all goes tulips..I have not had this much fun since I was in University....thus it is a win also.

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May 27, 2018, 04:36:41 AM

This shit is amazing to read.  Some video game reviewer guy that somehow crawled from complete obscurity to sort of well known just died and all these antifia weirdos came out of the woodwork to talk about how they're glad he died because he did not support the correct side of "gamergate", which was like a Marxist antifa movement to demonize males and whites within the video game industry.  This SJW video game developer (who appears to work for the worst game company that exists - EA) flips out in a Trump-style twitter rampage talking about how glad he is the guy is dead:

https://archive.li/UuEJw
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