Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[luke997]

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

[1714324301]

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[Sayeds56]

The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.

Albert Einstein

[bitcoinPsycho]

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0

[600watt]

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

with all respect, you did bring some arguments why one could disagree on the comparison of the internet protocol with the bitcoin protocol, but nothing that screams "deeply flawed"

the internet is a protocol to exchange information between participants, permissionless, open access software development, lots of open source.  all the tricks that the internet is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of information. a very mighty protocol.

bitcoin is a protocol to exchange monetary value peer2peer, permissionless, open access software development, open source. all the tricks that the bitcoin network is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of value. a very mighty protocol.

both are network protocols. my question remains: where is my comparison "deeply flawed"?

edit: the only non semantic argument you are presenting is that it is not an asset one can buy. but the asset you can buy regarding bitcoin is not the protocol itself. you can buy the tokens (well ok, UTXO´s...) that can be channeled through that protocol. but hey, that is so obvious that i really don't think it is what justifies "deeply flawed"    it is actually the only thing that does not compare exactly.

[qwizzie]

Source : https://www.blockchaincenter.net/altcoin-season-index/

Looks like Bitcoin Season has ended.

[600watt]

you f*** just cant stop posting shitcoinery in here.

*** OFF YOU ****


 

[luke997]

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

with all respect, you did bring some arguments why one could disagree on the comparison of the internet protocol with the bitcoin protocol, but nothing that screams "deeply flawed"

the internet is a protocol to exchange information between participants, permissionless, open access software development, lots of open source.  all the tricks that the internet is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of information. a very mighty protocol.

bitcoin is a protocol to exchange monetary value peer2peer, permissionless, open access software development, open source. all the tricks that the bitcoin network is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of value. a very mighty protocol.

both are network protocols. my question remains: where is my comparison "deeply flawed"?

Thank you for the discussion so far. I'll leave it here as I don't intend to upset people on this thread, and despite constant off-topic in here (I'm F5 addict to this thread, but very rarely speak) this subject is like a stick in a hornet nest to some - without disrespect - Bitcoin fundamentalists.
Let's get back on the wall watching.

[AlcoHoDL]

New development and innovation will be added to the existing Bitcoin network backbone as 2nd-layer add-ons (LN is one such example and there are, and will be, others). Bitcoin is currently a huge decentralized network, the size of which the world has never seen before. It is by far the fastest computational entity currently in existence on earth. This achievement is not easy to replicate. Apart from its vast size, it possesses features no other network of its kind possesses. Bitcoin is decentralized, trustless, immutable, borderless, scalable, super-hardened, super-robust, deflationary, scarce, not owned by any specific entity. It's all of the above and more. All at the same time. These are not blockchain properties, they are Bitcoin properties.

Just as new, innovative internet technologies are added on top of the tried, tested and robust TCP/IP layer, so will new, innovative technologies be added on top of the Bitcoin network backbone. There's no need to reinvent the wheel when the wheel is the optimal strategy. There are 100s of car brands, but their products all use wheels, because anything else is sub-optimal. Bitcoin is the "wheel" of the digital monetary revolution, and it will be used for decades to come. We, as Bitcoin HoDLers, are now tapping on the fundamental building block of a monetary instrument that will shake the foundations of the world's financial and wealth infrastructure. The avalanche has started, it's getting bigger, and it's unstoppable.

If anyone thinks an altcoin can easily replace all of the above, he is deluded. It's just a matter of time. You can either understand the tech, realise its potential and embrace it, or wait until you are forced to do so. It's up to you.

[600watt]

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

with all respect, you did bring some arguments why one could disagree on the comparison of the internet protocol with the bitcoin protocol, but nothing that screams "deeply flawed"

the internet is a protocol to exchange information between participants, permissionless, open access software development, lots of open source.  all the tricks that the internet is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of information. a very mighty protocol.

bitcoin is a protocol to exchange monetary value peer2peer, permissionless, open access software development, open source. all the tricks that the bitcoin network is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of value. a very mighty protocol.

both are network protocols. my question remains: where is my comparison "deeply flawed"?

Thank you for the discussion so far. I'll leave it here as I don't intend to upset people on this thread, and despite constant off-topic in here (I'm F5 addict to this thread, but very rarely speak) this subject is like a stick in a hornet nest to some - without disrespect - Bitcoin fundamentalists.
Let's get back on the wall watching.

also thank you. but i dont think it is off topic at all to discuss the extend of comparison between internet protocol and bitcoin protocol. i was expecting to learn something from you. other than saying that one cant buy parts of the internet you did not really say anything. i mean sure both projects have different historical backgrounds, but if that would be an argument for a "deeply flawed" comparison, than comparing stuff would become really difficult, since most different things have a different history.

[Cryptotourist]

I guess the innovation in ‘shitcoins’, not meaning the true shitcoins, is about solving the Trilemma of

• Security
• Scalabilty
• Decentralosation

The ‘Trilemma’ is that you can’t have all three  

Various projects boast higher TPS (mostly in relation to Ethereum; Bitcoin’s position as King and/or store of value is hardly attacked in those convos) but when scrutinising, without solving the Trilemma.

I know of one project truly claiming that they have solved the Trilemma: Radix. But they’ve been at it for 7 years and haven’t released a mainnet yet. But if they indeed have solved the Trillemma, you can’t afford not to be in it. Time will tell.

Those kinds of projects are interesting from a technical perspective. But that’s probably 0.001% of the projects out there.

I'm sorry bud, no, just NO.
It's an ETH based DeFi shitholecoin. This cannot be the 0.001% contribution.

[Wekkel]

I am not trying to discuss Radix here. But if a project solves the Trilemma, everyone wants to get its hands on it. I am counting on that.

[600watt]

New development and innovation will be added to the existing Bitcoin network backbone as 2nd-layer add-ons (LN is one such example and there are, and will be, others). Bitcoin is currently a huge decentralized network, the size of which the world has never seen before. It is by far the fastest computational entity currently in existence on earth. This achievement is not easy to replicate. Apart from its vast size, it possesses features no other network of its kind possesses. Bitcoin is decentralized, trustless, immutable, borderless, scalable, super-hardened, super-robust, deflationary, scarce, not owned by any specific entity. It's all of the above and more. All at the same time. These are not blockchain properties, they are Bitcoin properties.

Just as new, innovative internet technologies are added on top of the tried, tested and robust TCP/IP layer, so will new, innovative technologies be added on top of the Bitcoin network backbone. There's no need to reinvent the wheel when the wheel is the optimal strategy. There are 100s of car brands, but their products all use wheels, because anything else is sub-optimal. Bitcoin is the "wheel" of the digital monetary revolution, and it will be used for decades to come. We, as Bitcoin HoDLers, are now tapping on the fundamental building block of a monetary instrument that will shake the foundations of the world's financial and wealth infrastructure. The avalanche has started, it's getting bigger, and it's unstoppable.

If anyone thinks an altcoin can easily replace all of the above, he is deluded. It's just a matter of time. You can either understand the tech, realise its potential and embrace it, or wait until you are forced to do so. It's up to you.

very well said! impressive.

wait, did you just compare bitcoin with ...the internet?    

[philipma1957]

I guess the innovation in ‘shitcoins’, not meaning the true shitcoins, is about solving the Trilemma of

• Security
• Scalabilty
• Decentralosation

The ‘Trilemma’ is that you can’t have all three  

Various projects boast higher TPS (mostly in relation to Ethereum; Bitcoin’s position as King and/or store of value is hardly attacked in those convos) but when scrutinising, without solving the Trilemma.

I know of one project truly claiming that they have solved the Trilemma: Radix. But they’ve been at it for 7 years and haven’t released a mainnet yet. But if they indeed have solved the Trillemma, you can’t afford not to be in it. Time will tell.

Those kinds of projects are interesting from a technical perspective. But that’s probably 0.001% of the projects out there.

i am not saying there should not be any honest scientific research into this new tech field. but the idea that every little brain fart should and could get monetized by getting it on coinmarketcap is stupid to an almost criminal extend.

that a market was created for bitcoin was a necessity for price discovery and also for distribution of the protocol. to copy and paste the source code of btc and then go on and copy and paste this idea of a market is the original sin of shitcoinery. those 8500 different markets for projects that have not achieved digital scarcity should not exist. coinmarketcap has single handedly ruined more retailers than the 1929 stock market crash.

those projects should run on public testnets. they should not be sellable. this is evil. they have no value since they are not scarce or decentralized.
they are mere airline miles: data entries on centralized servers. only digital scarcity is what gives digital value. the rest is digital scam art.


edit: of course it is not only coinmarketcap. almost all the exchanges are doing it. they create this mirage of competing projects. but they are not competing with bitcoin. not the same thing at all. is pyrite competing with gold? would precious metal marketplaces quote prices for pyrite?  for forged gold? that would be a joke. but this joke goes on in the "crypto" space but no one is laughing. (except for the creators of those shitcoin scams: they laugh all the way to the bank.

This is very close to accurate. All pos don't belong on coinmarketcap as they are simply a 'junk' bond.

No coins that use sha-256 algorithm are any good other than BTC

But and it is a small but, some coins on different algorithms  such as LTC + DOGE have some function.

ETH actually has some function but is rapidly in danger of become the single largest crypto coin disaster of all time. 1 master of a coin = bad

Last I looked there were more than 1000 coins on coin market cap I would be hard pressed to find a real value for 30 of them.

[Krubster]

I see Craig Wright aka Faketoshi once again made the news. This time for suing bitcoin.org for hosting the white paper. What an idiot.

Another failed attempt by Faketoshi to steal bitcoin.


(I'm not the creator of the Mall Cop part, but I though it added an extra dimension to the picture  )

[rolling]

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

We really need a demerit system on here. Some statements are just so wrong, they need to be demerited.

People keep conflating the usefulness of an alt app with the monetary value of the app. Blockchain is a useful tech in some cases but it has nothing to do with digital value. BTC is digital value, not blockchain.

Just because an app is useful doesn't mean it needs to capture monetary value in its token. It can work just fine without a token, with a plain database, or with a token of nominal value. BTC is value itself so the usefulness of BTC necessarily means that it captures monetary value as it becomes more and more useful. This is not true of any other alt, app, token or database.

The war was fought and BTC won. There is only one value capture coin. The winner has been crowned. There will never be another. Investing in alts means missing out on BTC.

[becoin]

Ignoring a lot of interesting and potentially disruptive development in the altcoin space is short sighted.

You don't understand what money means! Money is the most important social contract in a society. If most of the members of that society say the name of this contract is Bitcoin then that's it! It will last as long as this contract is not broken and it may last for ages. Technicalities simply doesn't matter because technology to enforce the contract may change but contract doesn't!

[xhomerx10]

I see Craig Wright aka Faketoshi once again made the news. This time for suing bitcoin.org for hosting the white paper. What an idiot.

Another failed attempt by Faketoshi to steal bitcoin.


(I'm not the creator of the Mall Cop part, but I though it added an extra dimension to the picture  )

 I laughed quite a bit watching Mall Cop but I wouldn't want to see those Bitcoinists who are working to stop Faketoshi associated with Paul Blart's character in the movie.

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Still stuck in the $3xxxx range... currently $30000USD/$41002CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

Ho hum.

I see Craig Wright aka Faketoshi once again made the news. This time for suing bitcoin.org for hosting the white paper. What an idiot.

Another failed attempt by Faketoshi to steal bitcoin.

[jojo69]

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

[El duderino_]

https://twitter.com/themooncarl/status/1353008340570427392?s=21