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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 62

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26382011 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
ChartBuddy
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January 12, 2015, 09:00:04 AM

Bitfinex

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Explanation
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JorgeStolfi
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January 12, 2015, 09:16:14 AM

So [ the COIN fund will buy the coins from the Winkelvosses ] is your pure speculation.

Of course. What can we do except speculate?  Grin

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As far as I know, they bought those bitcoin at 2 digits. If they wanted to sell, they could have sold anytime since late 2013 in the open market with sound profit. Why do they need to wait for SEC approval?

Perhaps because they expect the price to go up once the ETF is approved, for all the reasons that have been repeated so many times; where if they tried to sell 200'000 BTC on the open market the price would crash.

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Why do you think they (or anyone) would want to create a bitcoin ETF?
Same question could be asked for any commodity ETF. One reason is to earn management fee. An ETF on NASDAQ will also significantly improve the liquidity of the bitcoin market and increase the value of their personal stash.

Well, the latter is almost the same thing as saying that they expect to sell their coins for a better price than if there was no ETF.

For the price and for the Winkles' profit, the effect of (Winkles seeling to the open market) and (COIN buying from the open market) should be almost the same as of (Winkles selling to COIN).

The Winkles do not have experience in fund management, why else would they go into that line business?  The management fees are not stellar, and are hard to predict.  How much did SMBIT collect in fees -- perhaps 5 million US$ in 15 months?

The real profit for fund creators comes from speculation -- from the sale of the underlying assets to the fund (i.e., indirectly, to those who buy fund shares) at better-than-market prices.  See for example those funds that the banks created from packages of worthless mortgages, before the 2008 crisis.
JorgeStolfi
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January 12, 2015, 09:27:15 AM

Any word on when the ETF is likely to happen?

I think it was in the works but with the recent action, probably wont happen.

The ETF would have to buy the BTC and no ETF will want to buy something that will for sure lose value.

That is not exactly how the thing will work.

Whenever someone will buy 1 share of the ETF, the ETF will buy 0.2 BTC, by definition.  Thereafter that share will be a proxy for that 0.2 BTC stored in the fund's virtual vaults.  The value of the share will go up and down together with the market price of that 0.2 BTC.  There may be some difference because holding it may be viewed as safer/riskier and more/less convenient than holding the 0.2 BTC directly.

So, if the BTC price is not expected to rise, it will be the public who will not want to buy the ETF shares.
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January 12, 2015, 09:50:37 AM

Look like the avalanche is set to fall..
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January 12, 2015, 10:00:03 AM

Bitfinex

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inca
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January 12, 2015, 10:00:54 AM

Look like the avalanche is set to fall..

Still just a pretty pathetic 3000 coins to 300.
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January 12, 2015, 10:14:20 AM



PS. I suppose you view those funds as good things.  Well, I have a very negative opinion of them: they are trying to sell bitcoins as 'safe fabulous investments' to people who do not understand what bitcoin is, and therefore do not understand the risk.

In fact, I believe that the funds are even riskier than bitcoin itself.  See SMBIT suspension of redemptions (withdrawals).  Have you read the "risks" section of the Winkles' filing?
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January 12, 2015, 10:16:07 AM



PS. I suppose you view those funds as good things.  Well, I have a very negative opinion of them: they are trying to sell bitcoins as 'safe fabulous investments' to people who do not understand what bitcoin is, and therefore do not understand the risk.

In fact, I believe that the funds are even riskier than bitcoin itself.  See SMBIT suspension of redemptions (withdrawals).  Have you read the "risks" section of the Winkles' filing?

Have you read the GLD prospectus?
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January 12, 2015, 10:31:03 AM

Price is jumping around super fast.
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January 12, 2015, 10:53:58 AM

Any word on when the ETF is likely to happen?

I predict early 2016 at this point. Unless they have to re-file yet again.
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January 12, 2015, 10:54:17 AM

Price is jumping around super fast.

That's normal behaviour for a pump and dump alt coin.
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January 12, 2015, 11:00:05 AM

Bitfinex

Bitstamp

Explanation
YourMother
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January 12, 2015, 11:01:58 AM

This is what you call a frustrated bull. Trying to give the impression that the coin is pumping. We'll meet at 250, you abortion!

hmmkay
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January 12, 2015, 11:16:05 AM

About 80% bearish posts per page, excellent.
Soon™
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January 12, 2015, 11:17:33 AM

This is what you call a frustrated bull. Trying to give the impression that the coin is pumping. We'll meet at 250, you abortion!

Even a cursory glance at the chart shows a complete retracement of the earlier dump on finex and stamp.
Mervyn_Pumpkinhead
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January 12, 2015, 11:42:14 AM

Slowly switching from denial to fear. Couple of weeks ago, denial was the dominant sentiment, now we are also seeing fear, with only some still holding on to denial.




inca
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January 12, 2015, 11:48:49 AM

<doomer alert>

Let me guess, you are wearing a placard saying, 'the end of the world is nigh (sell bitcoin)'?
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January 12, 2015, 11:50:16 AM

Slowly switching from denial to fear. Couple of weeks ago, denial was the dominant sentiment, now we are also seeing fear, with only some still holding on to denial.

I am afraid I concur with your assessment.
JamesBrown
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January 12, 2015, 11:50:37 AM

Slowly switching from denial to fear. Couple of weeks ago, denial was the dominant sentiment, now we are also seeing fear, with only some still holding on to denial.






Correct, I see it in myself as well.
luckygenough56
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January 12, 2015, 11:55:31 AM

even at capitulation, there will be denial
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