Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ParabellumLite]

Having said this, I can say what sources I've personally have found less poisoned:

-About Putin: Machiavelli.

LOL, true dat.

Maybe in terms of his self interests, but then again Machiavelli had no problem switching allies. Putin however does.

[WeltMaster]

Things have to get worse before they get better.

The sooner the Euro dream capitulates, the sooner these sovereign nations can start standing on their own two feet.

[billyjoeallen]

it's pretty loathsome behavior to hope for economic collapses -- with no regard for the lives it would destroy -- just so you can (maybe) make a few extra bucks off your BTC.

Either the Greeks suffer or all of Europe suffers. I prefer less suffering to more suffering so I don't see what's loathsome about that.

Oh spare me. Of all of you discussing it, I am confident you are the one who would give the least fucks about who suffers or how much as long as you think it will help you make a few extra bucks.

As a firefighter, I look forward to going out on a fire call. It's not that I want to see people suffer, it's that in that situation I know I'm needed and that I can help. It's like that. If I make money trading, it's because I was in a position to provide liquidity when needed by the market, which is another way of saying needed by my fellow man.

I don't give a shit if you think I'm a bad guy or not. I have to live with myself, not you.

[fonzie]

Tears of hopium

Impressive! Outstanding work NHJT!

[Wary]

I'm curious what books/articles you'd recommend, if there are any.

The key is not specific books, but being immune to poison. With the immuinity, you can read everything. Without it, no source is safe for you.
Most of people have no immunity. For them the best solution is MYOB. That's because the closer is an area to your daily activity and experience, the harder it is to mislead you about it. When it's about your weekly paycheck, everybody is expert. When it's about your country's budget, everybody is fooled.

Having said this, I can say what sources I've personally have found less poisoned:

-About religion: Atheistic writings.
-About economics: Microeconomy. Macroeconomy is poisoned.
-About politics: Libertarian writings.
-About EU: S.N.Parkinson and his laws.
-About Putin: Machiavelli.
-About Ukraine: http://www.stopfake.org/en/

Why am I not surprised one iota by "Libertarian writings."

Anyway, so by "immune to poison" you mean "think critically about what you're reading." You could have just said that. Why do libertarians have to be so hyperbolic?

Because "think critically about what you're reading" isn't strong enough. At least, it doesn't seem to work in your case. Everybody thinks he thinks critically. While in fact, most of us just cherry-pick "confirmations" of our opinions and "critically" ignore refutations. So instead of fixing their world view distortions, such "critical thinking" is increasing them. That's why I've recommended MYOB.  And that's why "immune to poison" is better than "critical thinking". Everybody believes he is able to think critically, but few believe they immune to poisons.

[bitcoinvest]

Tears of hopium

+1

did you create this one?

[octaft]

Why am I not surprised one iota by "Libertarian writings."

Anyway, so by "immune to poison" you mean "think critically about what you're reading." You could have just said that. Why do libertarians have to be so hyperbolic?

Because "think critically about what you're reading" isn't strong enough. At least, it doesn't seem to work in your case. Everybody thinks he thinks critically. While in fact, most of us just cherry-pick "confirmations" of our opinions and "critically" ignore refutations. So instead of fixing their world view distortions, such "critical thinking" is increasing them. That's why I've recommended MYOB.  And that's why "immune to poison" is better than "critical thinking". Everybody believes he is able to think critically, but few believe they immune to poisons.

Are you saying you think it's "poison" unless you agree with it? And only people who agree with you are able to think critically? The rest of us are a bunch of mindless lumps just waiting to accept the first lie that someone tells us?

I think you ought to critically analyze whether or not you're guilty of the same exact thing you're accusing others of.

[Fatman3001]

what is your opinion on grexit? is it going to happen? will they let us leave eurozone? and if so, will this affect the price of bitcoin?

Nobody wants a grexit, not even Syriza. But something has to give soon, if Greece gets IMF on their side it might be difficult for the creditor nations to resist some kind of debt relief, but what form and what size is impossible to know right now.

Grexit will happen because there are three outcomes and grexit is the not the worst case scenario for either side. Possibilities:
1)Greek bank run with no bail-out leading to collapse of economy and government
2) Writedowns/write offs of Greek debt leading several other countries to re-negotiate austerity terms and massive losses to sovereign debt-holders.
3)  Grexit.

It's going to happen. The only real question is "when?"

the EU's new round of QE is a round of desperation. The problem seems to be that the greeks are publicly admitting they are bankrupt and they cannot pay their debt. If they continue the road they are on with austerities then the greek people will suffer for years and years and possibly even more years. If the greeks default then everyone holding their debt will lose. If the EU gives in to restructuring greek debt without austerities then other EU countries will want the same treatment. If the greek exit the EU then we will could start to see a stampede out of the EU by other countries facing the same problems. I think we are watching the start of the world economic crisis.

i am from Greece, and i can tell you that: it was wrong to enter euro zone back in 2000 because books have been cooked...stock market at that time if you remember went crazy and lot of people lost almost everything....after prime minister was saying in the news people play in the stockmarket...and after we entered the euro...this was a game they played and they played well...after that we had Olympic Games.. and after the US Crisis and today they named Greek Crisis and we all know it's not a crisis of Greece, after 5 years that they are "saving" us they putted us deeper into crisis and they continue... this will move to Italy, Spain and eventualy all over the Euro zone. You know we say here in Greece....if you hear bad things for your neighbour...wait yours soon.....

But even if we accept that WE MUST stay in euro zone and play this game.. do you know that German pays as we speak pensions for world crimes to a lot of people in Israel etc?? and this in not past like they said about the loans that have to pay back to Greece... So they want us to pay more debts that 5 years now are getting bigger and bigger but the strong German country can make wars? destroy people and hole nations and not pay anything back??

sorry for my English i am not a native speaker but i think you can all read it easily.

What the Greece government did wrong was to enter the euro without changing their habit of wildly unrealistic budgets that were remedied by a devaluation of the Drachma. However I too am impressed by the lack of humility in Germany. There are worse sins than debt in their fairly recent history.

[Ultros]

Tears of hopium

You're not forced to jerk off on a picture of btc, you can buy one and be a happy man. 

[Fatman3001]

I'm curious what books/articles you'd recommend, if there are any.

The key is not specific books, but being immune to poison. With the immuinity, you can read everything. Without it, no source is safe for you.
Most of people have no immunity. For them the best solution is MYOB. That's because the closer is an area to your daily activity and experience, the harder it is to mislead you about it. When it's about your weekly paycheck, everybody is expert. When it's about your country's budget, everybody is fooled.

Having said this, I can say what sources I've personally have found less poisoned:

-About religion: Atheistic writings.
-About economics: Microeconomy. Macroeconomy is poisoned.
-About politics: Libertarian writings.
-About EU: S.N.Parkinson and his laws.
-About Putin: Machiavelli.
-About Ukraine: http://www.stopfake.org/en/

Why am I not surprised one iota by "Libertarian writings."

Anyway, so by "immune to poison" you mean "think critically about what you're reading." You could have just said that. Why do libertarians have to be so hyperbolic?

Come on, even their name is hyperbolic. They are classical liberalists but they think liberal means socialist and socialist means fascist, so they call themselves libertarians and think that every copy and paste job sprinkled with some american dumbing down is somehow the nectar of their own brilliance.

[aztecminer]

the EU's new round of QE is a round of desperation. The problem seems to be that the greeks are publicly admitting they are bankrupt and they cannot pay their debt. If they continue the road they are on with austerities then the greek people will suffer for years and years and possibly even more years. If the greeks default then everyone holding their debt will lose. If the EU gives in to restructuring greek debt without austerities then other EU countries will want the same treatment. If the greek exit the EU then we will could start to see a stampede out of the EU by other countries facing the same problems. I think we are watching the start of the world economic crisis.

Finally someone around here gets it. There is no way out. The Banksters who run the world have painted themselves into a corner.

yup...just helping ya drive your points home.. i am not totally anti-bankers but i do believe that 'trusting in god' for the federal reserve to print tons of money is another failing experiment. you see when they first started this they used to get a great return of economic growth when they printed money but they have been doing it for so long that the returns have become minimal. the us dollar is backed by debt and i do not believe that someone's debt is really money. i am pretty sure the reason we create fakeland enemies and bomb them is because this activity helps spur economic growth and profit (of course they throw in some other reasons that helps their agendas). we even got canada send their entire 6 airplanes to middle east to get in on the action. i think greece might have forgot to send their 3 airplanes to middle east.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[octaft]

Oh spare me. Of all of you discussing it, I am confident you are the one who would give the least fucks about who suffers or how much as long as you think it will help you make a few extra bucks.

As a firefighter, I look forward to going out on a fire call. It's not that I want to see people suffer, it's that in that situation I know I'm needed and that I can help.

"I can't be a racist, I have black friends!"

[Miz4r]

^^ Zorba's right. They lied to get in so now the Greeks must suffer or take all or Europe down with them.

it's pretty loathsome behavior to hope for economic collapses -- with no regard for the lives it would destroy -- just so you can (maybe) make a few extra bucks off your BTC.

Either the Greeks suffer or all of Europe suffers. I prefer less suffering to more suffering so I don't see what's loathsome about that. You can quarantine the diseased or you can let the infection turn into a plague. If you don't have the stomach to make the tough choices then it's prolly good that you're in no position to do so.

Bullshit. This 'plague' called (hyper-)financialization has already infested the entire world and it didn't start in Greece but way earlier than that. You can bet the entire 'developed' world is going to suffer at least as much as the Greeks, no matter what happens. We all had our part in this and we will all suffer for it, no way around it. Yes, the Greeks cooked their books. Goldman Sachs showed them how. We all do this, until shit hits the fan and it comes out for the world to see. Our turn will come.

[Wary]

Why am I not surprised one iota by "Libertarian writings."

Anyway, so by "immune to poison" you mean "think critically about what you're reading." You could have just said that. Why do libertarians have to be so hyperbolic?

Because "think critically about what you're reading" isn't strong enough. At least, it doesn't seem to work in your case. Everybody thinks he thinks critically. While in fact, most of us just cherry-pick "confirmations" of our opinions and "critically" ignore refutations. So instead of fixing their world view distortions, such "critical thinking" is increasing them. That's why I've recommended MYOB.  And that's why "immune to poison" is better than "critical thinking". Everybody believes he is able to think critically, but few believe they immune to poisons.

Are you saying you think it's "poison" unless you agree with it? And only people who agree with you are able to think critically? The rest of us are a bunch of mindless lumps just waiting to accept the first lie that someone tells us?

I think you ought to critically analyze whether or not you're guilty of the same exact thing you're accusing others of.

Why are you putting your words in my mouth? I'm saying exactly what I'm saying, rather than what you believe I should be saying/thinking. BTW, that's good illustration of typical "critical thinking". You haven't seen what I said, but have seen what I haven't.

I haven't said I immune. Everybody is susceptible, to some extend.
In fact, I am really interested in finding how distorted is my world picture.
Did you asked that question about yourself? Do you have any metrics/method to find it out?

The best metrics I'm aware of is Ideological Turing Test. Unfortunately, I haven't found the actual test. If you can find it, I would be glad to measure myself with it, and compare my results with yours. Until them, all I have is an anecdotal evidence that libertarians, on average, are doing better on this test than their opponents.

[Fatman3001]

I'm curious what books/articles you'd recommend, if there are any.

The key is not specific books, but being immune to poison. With the immuinity, you can read everything. Without it, no source is safe for you.
Most of people have no immunity. For them the best solution is MYOB. That's because the closer is an area to your daily activity and experience, the harder it is to mislead you about it. When it's about your weekly paycheck, everybody is expert. When it's about your country's budget, everybody is fooled.

Having said this, I can say what sources I've personally have found less poisoned:

-About religion: Atheistic writings.
-About economics: Microeconomy. Macroeconomy is poisoned.
-About politics: Libertarian writings.
-About EU: S.N.Parkinson and his laws.
-About Putin: Machiavelli.
-About Ukraine: http://www.stopfake.org/en/

Why am I not surprised one iota by "Libertarian writings."

Anyway, so by "immune to poison" you mean "think critically about what you're reading." You could have just said that. Why do libertarians have to be so hyperbolic?

Because "think critically about what you're reading" isn't strong enough. At least, it doesn't seem to work in your case. Everybody thinks he thinks critically. While in fact, most of us just cherry-pick "confirmations" of our opinions and "critically" ignore refutations. So instead of fixing their world view distortions, such "critical thinking" is increasing them. That's why I've recommended MYOB.  And that's why "immune to poison" is better than "critical thinking". Everybody believes he is able to think critically, but few believe they immune to poisons.

LOL, the irony

[octaft]

Why am I not surprised one iota by "Libertarian writings."

Anyway, so by "immune to poison" you mean "think critically about what you're reading." You could have just said that. Why do libertarians have to be so hyperbolic?

Because "think critically about what you're reading" isn't strong enough. At least, it doesn't seem to work in your case. Everybody thinks he thinks critically. While in fact, most of us just cherry-pick "confirmations" of our opinions and "critically" ignore refutations. So instead of fixing their world view distortions, such "critical thinking" is increasing them. That's why I've recommended MYOB.  And that's why "immune to poison" is better than "critical thinking". Everybody believes he is able to think critically, but few believe they immune to poisons.

Are you saying you think it's "poison" unless you agree with it? And only people who agree with you are able to think critically? The rest of us are a bunch of mindless lumps just waiting to accept the first lie that someone tells us?

I think you ought to critically analyze whether or not you're guilty of the same exact thing you're accusing others of.

Why are you putting your words in my mouth? I'm saying exactly what I'm saying, rather than what you believe I should be saying/thinking. BTW, that's good illustration of typical "critical thinking". You haven't seen what I said, but have seen what I haven't.

I haven't said I immune. Everybody is susceptible, to some extend.
In fact, I am really interested in finding how distorted is my world picture.
Did you asked that question about yourself? Do you have any metrics/method to find it out?

The best metrics I'm aware of is Ideological Turing Test. Unfortunately, I haven't found the actual test. If you can find it, I would be glad to measure myself with it, and compare my results with yours. Until them, all I have is an anecdotal evidence that libertarians, on average, are doing better on this test than their opponents.

I didn't put words in your mouth. Putting words in your mouth would be "so you're saying X" whereas I phrased it "are you saying X?" They are more loaded questions (kinda not exactly but definitely not straight-up putting words in your mouth, since they allow you to clarify and respond in the negative). It's a dick move in and of itself, I'll give you that - then again, so is using a strikeout on a condescending statement, so all's fair, IMO.

Anecdotal evidence is useless (and sometimes even harmful), so I ignore that out of hand.

Ideological Turing Test is mostly irrelevant here, as I haven't shared my opinions with you in this discussion beyond the fact that I disagree with yours. I will say that I find the fact that you think we could even take this test - with you being mostly unaware of my opinions - may suggest that you might be too quick to dismiss those who disagree with you. Either that, or you think their viewpoints are so simplistic that they can be summed up accurately without knowing much about the viewpoints of the particular individual you are engaging.

[tarmi]

firefighters and kids discussing global economy and politics on bitcoin speculation forum is just hilarious.

I also find hilarious that someone is comparing putin to machiavelli. machiavelli wrote really nice plays and comedies...

putin is a kgb graduate. 

[camolist]

Coinbase volume is rising really quick. Almost above btc-e in last 24h...
Orderbook looking healthy also.

https://tradeblock.com/markets/base/xbt-usd/15m/

(not trolling..like all those complaining about coinbase..i actually like them)

but i'm not seeing any change from launch ?

[tarmi]

Coinbase volume is rising really quick. Olmost above btc-e in last 24h.

https://tradeblock.com/markets/base/xbt-usd/15m/

that is because you cant wire dollars from USA to bitstamp anymore.

much easier to follow and track money going to bitcoin in a USA company.