Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Norway]

Why is Bitfinex so bearish compared to others?

That. BTC-E is normally $5-10 under finex.

It's been almost $2 between Huobi and Bitfinex for a couple of days. I have been thinking for a while about starting arbitrage trading. I don't believe in TA (Asstrology) and I can't predict the future. Also, it's easy and cheap to move BTC between exchanges (but not other currencies, could be a disadvantage). I have never traded on an exchange before (I just bought my bitcoins from a guy), yet I watch Bitcoinwisdom and am capable of coding my own user interface with the exchanges APIs. I don't want to make a "bot" (even if I actually could, given time and money), but more like a button I can press when two exchanges are in disharmony (One sell, one buy, same amount of BTC).

My question is: Do anybody in this thread have experience with arbitrage trading? Are the margins too small?

There it is. Now, time for "FRIDAY NIGHT VODKA PARTY ALONE IN A TWO ROOM FLAT IN THE SUBURBS OF OSLO"!!! Whoohoooooo!   

I've done some arbitrage between BTC-E & Bitfinex, stopped doing it no matter I've been in the profit with it. There are several reasons for that.

First there's a problem with moving LTC as secondary currency between exchanges, you can not move US$ so you have to move something to balance the sheets between the cycles. LTC transactions are fast, but not fast enough that LTC fluctuations don't eat your profit. Remember that all bots are doing the same as your bot is doing at that moment when profit margin opens, so the price moves in worse possible direction for you and it moves fast, as fast as best bots can do it, and there are some very good bots out there. If you decide to put permanent amount of LTC on the exchanges, and move them only while nothing happens, general decrease in LTC value also eats your profits. Exchange fees are far from neglectable, if you have to make usual 4-trade cycle to close the arbitrage you have to pay 0.1% + 0.2% + 0.1% + 0.2% = 0.6% fee, you'll find that eats your 1% arbitrage opportunity quickly. There''s also big problem that your bot must take care not only of the prices (which is trivial) but also with the volumes (which is not). Good luck calculating estimations if your bot will be able to close the whole open position when LTC completes withdraw & deposit transaction from one exchange to another.

All above considered I can tell you firsthand that: yes, it can be done, but it was not worth the effort and risk for me. It's easier to trade and profit on the exchanges then to arbitrage between them.

Ok, thanks man. The margins are just too tight. I see max 0,8 % difference between the Huobi and Bitfinex. But this little difference can go on for 2-3 days.

I should probably stay out of this game, ha ha 

[1714752478]

1714752478

[Norway]

Nice! Some pressure on Lawsky  
http://bitcoinist.net/new-yorks-bitlicense-faces-competition-rand-paul-event/

On monday, everything explodes.
Yes, it's an animalistic instinct based on some recent facts.
If I'm wrong, you all get to paintball my sorry ass.... 

[Fatman3001]

Why is Bitfinex so bearish compared to others?

That. BTC-E is normally $5-10 under finex.

It's been almost $2 between Huobi and Bitfinex for a couple of days. I have been thinking for a while about starting arbitrage trading. I don't believe in TA (Asstrology) and I can't predict the future. Also, it's easy and cheap to move BTC between exchanges (but not other currencies, could be a disadvantage). I have never traded on an exchange before (I just bought my bitcoins from a guy), yet I watch Bitcoinwisdom and am capable of coding my own user interface with the exchanges APIs. I don't want to make a "bot" (even if I actually could, given time and money), but more like a button I can press when two exchanges are in disharmony (One sell, one buy, same amount of BTC).

My question is: Do anybody in this thread have experience with arbitrage trading? Are the margins too small?

There it is. Now, time for "FRIDAY NIGHT VODKA PARTY ALONE IN A TWO ROOM FLAT IN THE SUBURBS OF OSLO"!!! Whoohoooooo!   

I've done some arbitrage between BTC-E & Bitfinex, stopped doing it no matter I've been in the profit with it. There are several reasons for that.

First there's a problem with moving LTC as secondary currency between exchanges, you can not move US$ so you have to move something to balance the sheets between the cycles. LTC transactions are fast, but not fast enough that LTC fluctuations don't eat your profit. Remember that all bots are doing the same as your bot is doing at that moment when profit margin opens, so the price moves in worse possible direction for you and it moves fast, as fast as best bots can do it, and there are some very good bots out there. If you decide to put permanent amount of LTC on the exchanges, and move them only while nothing happens, general decrease in LTC value also eats your profits. Exchange fees are far from neglectable, if you have to make usual 4-trade cycle to close the arbitrage you have to pay 0.1% + 0.2% + 0.1% + 0.2% = 0.6% fee, you'll find that eats your 1% arbitrage opportunity quickly. There''s also big problem that your bot must take care not only of the prices (which is trivial) but also with the volumes (which is not). Good luck calculating estimations if your bot will be able to close the whole open position when LTC completes withdraw & deposit transaction from one exchange to another.

All above considered I can tell you firsthand that: yes, it can be done, but it was not worth the effort and risk for me. It's easier to trade and profit on the exchanges then to arbitrage between them.

Thanks! You kind of confirmed my suspicions. For me, the tempting ones are when BTC-E is 3-4% lower than the rest. But last time I looked at it the problem was that to make any real money from it I would have to trade with a larger volume than the price could carry. So it would, as you say, be a lot of work and risk for peanuts. But some kind of arbitrage would be cool, if only to get a soft entry into trading.

[Norway]

Why is Bitfinex so bearish compared to others?

That. BTC-E is normally $5-10 under finex.

It's been almost $2 between Huobi and Bitfinex for a couple of days. I have been thinking for a while about starting arbitrage trading. I don't believe in TA (Asstrology) and I can't predict the future. Also, it's easy and cheap to move BTC between exchanges (but not other currencies, could be a disadvantage). I have never traded on an exchange before (I just bought my bitcoins from a guy), yet I watch Bitcoinwisdom and am capable of coding my own user interface with the exchanges APIs. I don't want to make a "bot" (even if I actually could, given time and money), but more like a button I can press when two exchanges are in disharmony (One sell, one buy, same amount of BTC).

My question is: Do anybody in this thread have experience with arbitrage trading? Are the margins too small?

There it is. Now, time for "FRIDAY NIGHT VODKA PARTY ALONE IN A TWO ROOM FLAT IN THE SUBURBS OF OSLO"!!! Whoohoooooo!   

I've done some arbitrage between BTC-E & Bitfinex, stopped doing it no matter I've been in the profit with it. There are several reasons for that.

First there's a problem with moving LTC as secondary currency between exchanges, you can not move US$ so you have to move something to balance the sheets between the cycles. LTC transactions are fast, but not fast enough that LTC fluctuations don't eat your profit. Remember that all bots are doing the same as your bot is doing at that moment when profit margin opens, so the price moves in worse possible direction for you and it moves fast, as fast as best bots can do it, and there are some very good bots out there. If you decide to put permanent amount of LTC on the exchanges, and move them only while nothing happens, general decrease in LTC value also eats your profits. Exchange fees are far from neglectable, if you have to make usual 4-trade cycle to close the arbitrage you have to pay 0.1% + 0.2% + 0.1% + 0.2% = 0.6% fee, you'll find that eats your 1% arbitrage opportunity quickly. There''s also big problem that your bot must take care not only of the prices (which is trivial) but also with the volumes (which is not). Good luck calculating estimations if your bot will be able to close the whole open position when LTC completes withdraw & deposit transaction from one exchange to another.

All above considered I can tell you firsthand that: yes, it can be done, but it was not worth the effort and risk for me. It's easier to trade and profit on the exchanges then to arbitrage between them.

Thanks! You kind of confirmed my suspicions. For me, the tempting ones are when BTC-E is 3-4% lower than the rest. But last time I looked at it the problem was that to make any real money from it I would have to trade with a larger volume than the price could carry. So it would, as you say, be a lot of work and risk for peanuts. But some kind of arbitrage would be cool, if only to get a soft entry into trading.

Yepp, let's leave it to the china bots. They are faster, and more complex. The arbitrage upside has probably been exploited for two years in bitcoinland. I understand that it's no place for me in this concept. But I don't worry. I just have to kick back as a long term hodler and wait.... Mo ha ha ha ha ha herk prft....

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[BayAreaCoins]

Meh... Opened a few more quarterly contracts.

Keeping the ass end super soft.

super soft would mean 10x, but I know your went 20x probably

Historically BTC has performed really well around 4/20... we shall see.

Scared Bitcoins don't make no Bitcoins sir!

[Brewins]

Good thing I bought 20 bitcoins this week at around 217!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wow... thats a bargain price, i hope a bear sold it to you 

223 now.

I think still not enough to compensate the fees

[ElectricMucus]

Nice! Some pressure on Lawsky  
http://bitcoinist.net/new-yorks-bitlicense-faces-competition-rand-paul-event/

Wingnut politics influences legislation, now here's a new one, I haven't heard of.
LOL

[Norway]

so this forum has descended into the absurd ... NLC and the troll army have spammed and crapped up the WO for months and the moderator arrives from nowhere and deletes 2 innocuous posts about twists on OkCoin labelling ... wtf? got shares in OkCoin mod? dimwit

Chill, Adam removed some pitcures of my favorite catamaran (my wet bitcoin dream), but it's not important. The thing is, the trolls are not very present anymore.

And wait for monday.

I have a bold prediction that this monday is the perfect storm in bitcoinland. Wait and see. And kick the shit out of me if I'm wrong. (PS. This is my first prediction in this forum).

[Brewins]

Does the lack of troll counts as a signal of a trend reversal?

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Norway]

Does the lack of troll counts as a signal of a trend reversal?

No, I'm sorry. But a president candidate going to a bitcoin event on sunday is!  

[damiano]

so this forum has descended into the absurd ... NLC and the troll army have spammed and crapped up the WO for months and the moderator arrives from nowhere and deletes 2 innocuous posts about twists on OkCoin labelling ... wtf? got shares in OkCoin mod? dimwit

Chill, Adam removed some pitcures of my favorite catamaran (my wet bitcoin dream), but it's not important. The thing is, the trolls are not very present anymore.

And wait for monday.

I have a bold prediction that this monday is the perfect storm in bitcoinland. Wait and see. And kick the shit out of me if I'm wrong. (PS. This is my first prediction in this forum).

Another pump like the Coinbase shit?   Were you not around during that brutal bear attack?

[Omikifuse]

so this forum has descended into the absurd ... NLC and the troll army have spammed and crapped up the WO for months and the moderator arrives from nowhere and deletes 2 innocuous posts about twists on OkCoin labelling ... wtf? got shares in OkCoin mod? dimwit

Chill, Adam removed some pitcures of my favorite catamaran (my wet bitcoin dream), but it's not important. The thing is, the trolls are not very present anymore.

And wait for monday.

I have a bold prediction that this monday is the perfect storm in bitcoinland. Wait and see. And kick the shit out of me if I'm wrong. (PS. This is my first prediction in this forum).

Another pump like the Coinbase shit?   Were you not around during that brutal bear attack?

Short big pumps are always good for profits.

Going to buy BTC to sell them at Monday

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[noobtrader]

i wonder who short at 222 price range

even if price didnt have trend reversal, how much profit they expect really ?
and if btc hit 0 value do they expect exchange not to run away with their fund anyway ? or hacked ?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

i wonder who short at 222 price range

even if price didnt have trend reversal, how much profit they expect really ?
and if btc hit 0 value do they expect exchange not to run away with their fund anyway ? or hacked ?

My theory: some people have been making money consistently for over a year simply betting that Bitcoin will fall. That's all they know.

[Chef Ramsay]

so this forum has descended into the absurd ... NLC and the troll army have spammed and crapped up the WO for months and the moderator arrives from nowhere and deletes 2 innocuous posts about twists on OkCoin labelling ... wtf? got shares in OkCoin mod? dimwit

Chill, Adam removed some pitcures of my favorite catamaran (my wet bitcoin dream), but it's not important. The thing is, the trolls are not very present anymore.

And wait for monday.

I have a bold prediction that this monday is the perfect storm in bitcoinland. Wait and see. And kick the shit out of me if I'm wrong. (PS. This is my first prediction in this forum).

Another pump like the Coinbase shit?   Were you not around during that brutal bear attack?

Short big pumps are always good for profits.

Going to buy BTC to sell them at Monday

But what if Barry's prediction of another bitcoin bubble in price starts on Monday and you sell at that point for peanuts rather than the potential moon? I'm not saying just asking. Normally, I'd be inclined to agree with you. I've got fiat and bitcoin right now, just in case.

[damiano]

even if price didnt have trend reversal, how much profit they expect really ?

I will let you know