Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[AlexGR]

Again, short and long are somewhat relative. From bank to bank, from paypal to bank, for western union etc, it takes days... That's eons of time compared to bitcoin.

Only where the banking system is completely backward (i.e. the US) Much of Europe has near-instantaneous inter-bank transfers. And that's for small amounts too such as $30 for topping up a phone.

Not in Greece (EU & Eurozone member).

If a friend of mine wants to send me 20 euro from his Alpha Bank account, to my Eurobank account, he gets charged 1E, I get charged 3E, and the process takes 1 day or more.

It literally costs cheaper to put a 20 euro note in an envelope and mail it first priority / next day delivery, for 0.72 euro.

[peonminer]

Short or be shorted

[Fakhoury]

Need to hear you from you guys over here please

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1300450.0

[fisheater22]

Well sure there is, unless I want to pay double (and possibly more) for each cup of coffee.

The world revolves around fiat. You go to your nearest Bitcoin ATM, pull 200$ out and buy your coffees and stuff with cash. So, how is it not spendable? ...to fees that can be bypassed with sidechains, altcoins, cash, etc. We'll see how it goes in terms of the scaling solution implemented.

Err, those "bitcoin ATMs" are usually bitcoin vending machines, that *sell* me BTC, often at 19 fucking % markup. They don't want to buy my BTC any more than Coca Cola vending machines want to buy my can of Coke. So no, no bitcoin ATMs to help me spend my (useless without real money, apparently) BTC.

Your paradox begins and ends by applying future problems (extremely high BTC fees, which would imply a very high volume of transactions where people are REALLLYYY taking BTC seriously and are paying a lot for being able to transact with it - which are all indications that BTC is quite big at that point) by coupling it to today's anemic infrastructure, which is a fallacy.

No, I'm offering you the current state of bitcoin ATMs (according to you, an essential layer for transacting in BTC).
Talking about the present, what is, right now. No "paradox." What are you talking about?

P.S. please try to understand that Bitcoin is only a store of value as much as it's useful, and it's usefulness plummets if it can't be used as money.

If I have 10kg of gold in storage, as store of value, I'm not expecting to buy souvlakia and pizzas with it. I understand that I will have to sell a few grams or a few gold coins for fiat and then use fiat. That doesn't render gold useless. ...

Gold is an anachronism, a custom, a convention, like shaking hands.
It has millennia of history, rooted in the times when it represented "the power of those who (by fiat!) deemed that it [gold] means wealth -- kings, rulers, with armies and shit."
Bitcoin has no more in common with gold than it has with dolphins or the internet. Just fucking stop already.

[Cconvert2G36]

You know that sentiment has reached adequately negative levels when people think that crypto is done,  over some mining issue

It's not a mining issue. Err, it is, in the sense that they are unwilling to exercise their influence against a team that has formed to eat their lunch.

This is not a crisis that ends in a flash of red fireworks, it is a long, slow, bleeeeeed. The scramble for pre-halving coins may even disguise it for most of next year.

[TERA]

Don't forget also that gold is highly valuable for its usages in semiconductors, medicine,  space exploration,  etc

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Bitfirm]

downtrend till the end of holidays

[Fatman3001]

Hi there. I’m BlindMayorBitcorn, Hero member at Bitcointalk. AMA!

 

Congratulations!!

Do you get a superpower?

[Richy_T]

Damn, Core really did pull a rabbit out their hat  

If by "rabbit" you mean "semantic sophistry to hide a de-facto max-block-size increase to 2MB while adding a good deal of complexity to the code" and if by "pulled" you mean "talked about" rather than "implemented" then sure, I can go with that.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Hi there. I’m BlindMayorBitcorn, Hero member at Bitcointalk. AMA!

 

Congratulations!!

Do you get a superpower!

Nope. 

[AlexGR]

No, I'm offering you the current state of bitcoin ATMs (according to you, an essential layer for transacting in BTC).
Talking about the present, what is, right now. No "paradox." What are you talking about?

Then also take the current state of bitcoin fees and transact with it, instead of projecting forward to the point where it costs 3 times the coffee in tx fees.

If we are talking about the future, you will have to apply a corresponding "futuristic" reasoning for other aspects of the ecosystem, whether it is ATM presence, widespread use of plastic cards connected to BTC, etc.

Gold is an anachronism, a custom, a convention, like shaking hands.

Whatever you have to say about gold, the issue remains that it is indirectly spendable and a store of value despite not being directly spendable. And this is not an anachronism. It is not something that was relative a thousand years ago. It is something relevant TODAY.

You live in a developing world country with high inflation. Your bank doesn't allow you to convert your local fiat to USD. You can't wire money outside to buy BTC. But you can still get your hands on some gold or silver in various shops. You go for it and you store your wealth in this way. Now. Not in the past. Now. Today. This is happening RIGHT NOW.

Fast forward 5 years later, the local currency has gone down massively while gold preserves its value (much more local currency corresponds to 1 gram or 1oz of gold), gold owner then converts gold for local currency and gets multiple the amount he invested in it. He then proceeds to pay bills and various expenses or make new investments, buy a house, etc.

http://goldprice.org/spot-gold.html

Go in the drop down buttons below the black chart. Try it with ARS (argentian currency), BRL (brazilian), RUB (russian), INR (india) 10 years chart. Note that gold in USD peaked at 1800 and is currently at 1000, but in other countries there is an alternate reality about the relevance of gold as store of value. An american could feel "ripped off" if he bought at the spike and is now down but someone with another currency might be thanking God.

The exact same principle can be applied to BTC and weak currencies. And BTC, unlike gold under your pillow, can actually perform international payments - where in some cases local banks prevent (they don't want to drain their foreign reserves in USD).

[Richy_T]

Well sure there is, unless I want to pay double (and possibly more) for each cup of coffee, but Bitcoin didn't set out to be "like money, only more expensive and inconvenient," AFAIK.
If unclear, bank transactions take days, occasionally, not because of the slow 300 baud modems used by legacy finance, and not because bankster electrons move slower, but *because what's being transferred is a different thing altogether.*

Bitcoin user: I want to spend BTCx and am willing to spend BTCy to do so.

Miner: I will gladly accept your BTCy to include your transaction for BTCx on the blockchain should I be fortunate enough to solve the next block.

Core-dev: No!

Ah, p2p cash...

[JayJuanGee]

Gentlemen.

As the mempool fills, and our great (totally not captured) technocrats continue to implement what's best for Bitcoin. I'd like to remind you that a new moon is cresting the horizon. Some say $5000 incoming, some say $32000, these are all low-ball estimates.

Some may say that it will take 9-12 months to roll out a complicated accounting trick to gain us 0.75MB of effective space. I say nay, it might happen tomorrow. Wumpus, sipa, and gmax have your best interests at heart. They have heard a panel representing 90% of hashing power state that they are ready for 2MB, and they have graciously and courageously rejected it... to keep you safe.

Institutional investors are very aware that the current number of users and transactions are more than enough to support mining security as the block reward dwindles. This is why they continue to pile in at ever increasing rates. There is not a private, for profit, company that is ready to use the blockchain as their own personal settlement network, this is a lie proffered by conspiritards.

For the first time in Bitcoin's history, everything is looking poised for success, and I've never had more confidence in our future.

Keep the price in the 400's gentlemen, at least for this week.

hahahahahaha

That's a way to rally the spirits....

I kind of have a similar sense of current BTC world posture...

 

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

What would happen if Gavin just up and locked everybody out of the repo?

From Reddit:

Peter's idea is not to replace Core with a different team in the repo, it's to nuke the repo so that ALL teams have to post their offerings in new repos that don't have the privileged position of being historically connected to Satoshi - a privileged position that Core now enjoys.

[JayJuanGee]

...
Again, short and long are somewhat relative. From bank to bank, from paypal to bank, for western union etc, it takes days... That's eons of time compared to bitcoin.

For small txs you can go with 0-conf.

What's the point of transferring money "From bank to bank, from paypal to bank, for western union etc.," if you can't spend it? Because that's what transferring "bitcoin, the store of value-but-not-money" is.
Unless you mean the novelty of transferring binary strings on the blockchain, ofc, but that sorta wears thin pretty quick. For me, at least.

you have tried to suggest that you are bullish about BTC, but you continually seem to be engaged in half-assed selective information posts to dwell on your apparent inadequate perception of various BTC weaknesses...

In other words, you are seeming more and more like some kind of paid shill rather than some genuine poster who is truly attempting to engage regarding positives and negatives of Bitcoin. 

We all should realize by now, that bitcoin serves a variety of purposes, rather than your narrow rendition of doomsday single purpose bitcoins.

[Richy_T]

What would happen if Gavin just up and locked everybody out of the repo?

From Reddit:

Peter's idea is not to replace Core with a different team in the repo, it's to nuke the repo so that ALL teams have to post their offerings in new repos that don't have the privileged position of being historically connected to Satoshi - a privileged position that Core now enjoys.

Is that Peter Todd? I consider him the most dangerous man to Bitcoin's future but that might not be a bad idea. If it didn't come from him and Theymos wasn't holding the keys to the gateways to Bitcoin information.

[fisheater22]

No, I'm offering you the current state of bitcoin ATMs (according to you, an essential layer for transacting in BTC).
Talking about the present, what is, right now. No "paradox." What are you talking about?

Then also take the current state of bitcoin fees and transact with it, instead of projecting forward to the point where it costs 3 times the coffee in tx fees.
If we are talking about the future, you will have to apply a corresponding "futuristic" reasoning for other aspects of the ecosystem.

I'm talking about the present. Regardless of how much I spend on fees, I can't buy gas, milk, pay my taxes or buy my dope from Pedro.
Not without turning it into fiat, at which point all the KYC/AML laws will apply, and will be introduced at your "bitcoin [buying] ATMs."
As long as that's how it's played, bitcoin's just a needless layer of complication.

Gold is an anachronism, a custom, a convention, like shaking hands.

Whatever you have to say about gold, the issue remains that it is indirectly spendable and a store of value despite not being directly spendable. And this is not an anachronism. It is not something that was relative a thousand years ago. It is something relevant TODAY.

Recently, gold has been a shittier store of value than USD. Case closed.

you have tried to suggest that you are bullish about BTC

You kiss your mother with that lying mouth?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

What would happen if Gavin just up and locked everybody out of the repo?

From Reddit:

Peter's idea is not to replace Core with a different team in the repo, it's to nuke the repo so that ALL teams have to post their offerings in new repos that don't have the privileged position of being historically connected to Satoshi - a privileged position that Core now enjoys.

Is that Peter Todd? I consider him the most dangerous man to Bitcoin's future but that might not be a bad idea. If it didn't come from him and Theymos wasn't holding the keys to the gateways to Bitcoin information.

Peter R.

[aztecminer]

i went all day long without looking at bitcoin price (was busy with priorities).. five pages later i post into thread that the price didnt change in that time.