Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Cconvert2G36]

If there's one thing that isn't "core" to bitcoin, it's lightning.

There are many parts that are in the code for bitcoind that shouldn't be there. Most notably the wallet but other parts too. If a true, proper bitcoin core were written, a lot of this nonsense would sort itself out as obvious. Unfortunately, Satoshi failed to implement proper code separation and a lot of the problems that we see extend from that.

(Not that core shouldn't provide a wallet but it should be a separate piece of software)

Right, not to say that LN can't be a very complementary protocol to Bitcoin, but designing Bitcoin for Lightning... is somewhat backwards in terms of priorities.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[flagpara]

TRUMP 2016!

CAN'T STUMP THE TRUMP!

Trump will make Bitcoin mining in the USA profitable again!

Why should the chinks get all the profits from mining anyway?

Trump will deport all bears and shorters to Mexico!

TRUMP 2016!

Meanwhile,  in actual news, Bernie Sanders wants to impose a 0.1% - 0.5% financial transaction tax on trading, PER TRADE  (like your broker commission )...

Which would actually be a good thing, leading people to stop trading and only invest in product/companies they believe have a potential. And yes I trade. But it's not because I do something that I can't understand that it's not exactly a good practice.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[TERA]

TRUMP 2016!

CAN'T STUMP THE TRUMP!

Trump will make Bitcoin mining in the USA profitable again!

Why should the chinks get all the profits from mining anyway?

Trump will deport all bears and shorters to Mexico!

TRUMP 2016!

Meanwhile,  in actual news, Bernie Sanders wants to impose a 0.1% - 0.5% financial transaction tax on trading, PER TRADE  (like your broker commission )...

Which would actually be a good thing, leading people to stop trading and only invest in product/companies they believe have a potential. And yes I trade. But it's not because I do something that I can't understand that it's not exactly a good practice.

Whether you like trading or not, the livelihood hundreds of thousands of traders from all social classes would be ruined, billion dollars companies would collapse, a trillion dollar market would be gone, and it might even lead to the collapse of the whole economy. In any case, the economic impact will be such that the amount of tax revenue generated is actually REDUCED rather than increased once factoring in the side effects.

Also, investing and trading are not mutually exclusive. Look into "Security based borrowing". You can actually use certain large cap assets as margin collateral to do your trading. I actually do this with Bitcoin, using bitcoins.

If Bernie is elected and this tax passes (which probably wont even if he is elected), expect btc to have a major drop in price as an exodus of U.S. traders occur, and some of the major exchanges (supported by traders) close down or gox everyone.

[flagpara]

Whether you like trading or not, the livelihood hundreds of thousands of traders from all social classes would be ruined, billion dollars companies would collapse, a trillion dollar market would be gone, and it might even lead to the collapse of the whole economy. In any case, the economic impact will be such that the amount of tax revenue generated is actually REDUCED rather than increased once factoring in the side effects.

Also, investing and trading are not mutually exclusive. Look into "Security based borrowing". You can actually use certain large cap assets as margin collateral to do your trading. I actually do this with Bitcoin, using bitcoins.

Wrong wrong and wrong sorry.
There are not "hundreds of thousands of traders". There are only few big companies sucking the investments of thousands of people "trying". 98% of traders are just normal people trying to add some profit at the end of the month, and they don't. Cause you can't beat the experience and the equipment of huge companies of trading.

billion dollars companies would collapse, a trillion dollar market would be gone, and it might even lead to the collapse of the whole economy

No. Perfectly and totally wrong. The only kind of trading that would be impacted would be the one of the ultra short term investment. People and companies actually investing in something wouldn't even bother something so small.
Most traders NEVER create ANY value in their whole life. They just steal the money from someone else. You're saying it would ruin the economy? I say it would cure it! Maybe we would stop exchanging around a hundred time the ACTUAL quantity of corn produced in the world. Maybe it would lead the market to stabilize a bit and stop killing farmers in the world slowly only because some big companies want to trade.

Just think a bit. What is the real use of a trader to our world and economy? Nothing. Traders shouldn't even exist. Their only purpose is to buy something and sell it higher. They produce nothing, bring no additional value to anything. They don't allow a thing neither.

And their is a real difference between investment and trading, they have nearly nothing in common. Investment means you trust a product/project/idea and decide to support it so you bring money to the team. Trading is just taking an existing product or company and betting on the raise or fall of its value. Sanders measure wouldn't harm investors, you don't invest in a company if you believe its value will rise only about 0.1%... It would just destroy the Forex, and I don't see how it would be a bad thing.

Give me just ONE reason to keep Forex alive. ONE thing the traders and trading companies actually do for humanity.

[GreekGeek]

@flagpara   
totally agree with you man
+1000

[flagpara]

@flagpara    
totally agree with you man
+1000

Thanks dude.
I trade sometimes, mainly because I have no faith neither in our society or our government so I don't really feel guilty about it. But it doesn't mean that I am not aware of the fact that when I earn 200$ profit on a trade, it means someone somewhere lost 200$ to. I'm just stealing (legally but still).
So if a government wants to regulate that and limit the profits of the REAL criminals of our time, well I can't say anything but yes. I'll earn less money, but that will be for the best. It's like the taxes, I don't like paying them, but that doesn't mean I can't understand that it's thanks to the taxes I currently pay that I was able to go to school!

PS. And I like your vision of Jesus 

[TERA]

If you want to have an ethical argument about how trading is immoral and should be abolished, that is another matter is probably your strongest approach.

As for the economic impact, it will be negative. I have read reports. The tax envisioned to generate additional tax revenue will actually result in a net decrease in tax revenue due to other sources being cut off.

You missed what I said about securities based borrowing. You can invest and trade at the same time by using the investment as lending collateral for the trading. You still have a long term investment, which goes untouched (unless you have losses)

[spiderbrain]

@flagpara    
totally agree with you man
+1000

Thanks dude.
I trade sometimes, mainly because I have no faith neither in our society or our government so I don't really feel guilty about it. But it doesn't mean that I am not aware of the fact that when I earn 200$ profit on a trade, it means someone somewhere lost 200$ to. I'm just stealing (legally but still).
So if a government wants to regulate that and limit the profits of the REAL criminals of our time, well I can't say anything but yes. I'll earn less money, but that will be for the best. It's like the taxes, I don't like paying them, but that doesn't mean I can't understand that it's thanks to the taxes I currently pay that I was able to go to school!

PS. And I like your vision of Jesus 

Nice one, guys, great to see some sanity on this forum for a change

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[neuronics]

Some choo choo for all the Bitcoiners (... and their kids  

https://i.imgur.com/lpFxPgf.jpg

HAPPY HOLIDAY

[Cconvert2G36]

Things have changed 'round here. 

[ErisDiscordia]

what's with all the statist sentiment here?

Tax this
Regulate the rest
We are the central planners
We know what is best

[Cconvert2G36]

Gentlemen, I realize we've flat lined here, but please... my asks are quite reasonable, and they're not fake.

Edit: Filled, thank you. Took some of the edge off.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[flagpara]

If you want to have an ethical argument about how trading is immoral and should be abolished, that is another matter is probably your strongest approach.

As for the economic impact, it will be negative. I have read reports. The tax envisioned to generate additional tax revenue will actually result in a net decrease in tax revenue due to other sources being cut off.

You missed what I said about securities based borrowing. You can invest and trade at the same time by using the investment as lending collateral for the trading. You still have a long term investment, which goes untouched (unless you have losses)

I didn't miss. You're talking about maybe 0.01% of amount of trades. Yes it exists but who uses it? And it doesn't matter, it would be better to have ONLY investments).

And it will not be negative as, as I said, your just destroying an intermediate. You don't destroy any value, and the amount of money that was "won" in trading was also "lost" in trading (because for you to win 100$ in trading someone must have lost 100$ in trading.).

 The money will just go somewhere else. Suppressing companies that produce nothing and provide no services can't have a negative effect on economy, it's just not possible... Even if "The tax envisioned to generate additional tax revenue will actually result in a net decrease in tax revenue due to other sources being cut off." the tax will be won somewhere else because the money spent on trading will be spent somewhere else...

[Dotto]

Do traders provide some benefit to the system? (no just BTC traders, but traders in general) or they are just plain parasites?. It would be nice to listen at least some protraders opinion if it even exists.

A priori they look as pure parasites, but somehow a prioris use to be wrong.

Interesting debate while price go sideways

[Cconvert2G36]

Do traders provide some benefit to the system? (no just BTC traders, but traders in general) or they are just plain parasites?. It would be nice to listen at least some protraders opinion if it even exists.

A priori they look as pure parasites, but somehow a prioris use to be wrong.

Interesting debate while price go sideways

Hint... it's called price discovery, and it's occasionally useful.

Would you rather they used your money to figure it out? That can be arranged.

[ErisDiscordia]

Do traders provide some benefit to the system? (no just BTC traders, but traders in general) or they are just plain parasites?. It would be nice to listen at least some protraders opinion if it even exists.

A priori they look as pure parasites, but somehow a prioris use to be wrong.

Interesting debate while price go sideways

Having traders aka. "the market" discover what something is worth is the alternative to setting prices via central committee.

BJA used to talk about this when he was calling btc traders "decentral bankers". Their job is to buy when they feel like the thing is undervalued and sell when it is overvalued, providing liquidity. The ones who are better at this end up with greater means to influence the price.

So much for theory. In reality we have things like insider trading, government interventions and price manipulation by cartels going on.

Claiming traders don't bring any value to the table seems incredibly myopic. They are helping to set the price of things in a decentralized way which would presumably seem useless only to someone who would prefer to set prices of things through central committees and whatnot.