Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BitUsher]

I never understood why anyone would need censorship resistant monies to purchase a beverage anyway.

Hmm... well there are some circumstances where a sovereign digital currency can be helpful for buying everyday items like when a person has all their bank accounts frozen or shutdown due to a lawsuit , bank mistake , asset forfeiture, or operation chokepoint and they want to make an internet purchase or tip someone remotely where cash cannot be used. Bitcoin also poses as a backstop to eliminate the effectiveness of banning physical fiat cash as there has been some recent discussions of banning the 100 dollar bill.

But I understand your central point , and agree, bitcoins primary purpose is to serve the underserved markets and act as regulatory arbitrage.

I am proud it is useful on the blackmarkets and deepweb for many purchases.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I never understood why anyone would need censorship resistant monies to purchase a beverage anyway.

Hmm... well there are some circumstances where a sovereign digital currency can be helpful like when a person has all their bank accounts frozen or shutdown due to a lawsuit , bank mistake , asset forfeiture, or operation chokepoint and they want to make an internet purchase or tip someone remotely where cash cannot be used. Bitcoin also poses as a backstop to eliminate the effectiveness of banning physical fiat cash as there has been some recent discussions of banning the 100 dollar bill.

But I understand your central point , and agree, bitcoins primary purpose is to serve the underserved markets and act as regulatory arbitrage.

I am proud it is useful on the blackmarkets and deepweb for many purchases.

Canada stopped printing the 1000 dollar bill a while back for the same reason. The thing was pink. Anyhoo.

[bargainbin]

... I never understood why anyone would need censorship resistant monies to purchase a beverage, anyway. ...

Mainly because people don't like having a whole shitload of different kinds of currencies, each good for doing its thing only -- USD for buying coffee, censorship-resistant BTC for your Child Pornography needs, Meat Pound for buying uncooked beef & poultry, Galoneers for filling your car, etc., etc.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^People like having the tools to get the jobs done. My debit card could be denominated in mittens, so long as I get my coffee.

[Cconvert2G36]

Back in the day, I would buy a sandwich with BTC every week. Fellow customers were impressed when I scanned a qr code with my phone and hit send. The vendor smiled when it popped up on their tablet 1.5 seconds later, the future had arrived.

Little did I know... I was bloating the blockchain with spam, filling in bytes in people's hard drives that should have been used for uncensorable payments to "freedom fighters", payment channel hub settlements, central bank reserve settlements, maybe a life-saving international drug transaction, or two. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

Amazingly, the vendor trusted my 0 conf transaction and let me walk away with the grub... every time. They hadn't met Peter Todd yet. Maybe they've got a lightning channel open to handle the "new normal", I should ask... or not.

Memories... We were young(er), scaling up the blocksize à la satoshi's post seemed a no-brainer, Blockstream hadn't been founded yet... the future was bright and full of possibilities. 

Pump it above 450 guise, please.

[bargainbin]

^People like having the tools to get the jobs done. My debit card could denominated in mittens, so long as I get my coffee.

People do not like needing a unique tool for every possible job. That's why there are things like standards -- a 7/16 bolt head, a 1/2 bolt head, but no 15/32 bolt head, or an 11.047mm bolt head.

You know why that is? Well, I'll tell you -- even though sometimes a 1/2 bolt head is just a bit too big, ONLY A FUCKING RETARD WANTS TO BUY 9,999 OPEN-END WRENCHES.

see?

It's the same with money. Only a retard wants a separate currency for everything. because some days, the retard's wallet would have 10 bucks in it, and he'd need 10 bucks worth of gas to get home. All seems well ...but oh The bucks, they're Censorship-resistant CP bux, not the Galoneers required for filling car

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^People like having the tools to get the jobs done. My debit card could be denominated in mittens, so long as I get my coffee.

People do not like needing a unique tool for every possible job. That's why there are things like standards -- a 7/16 bolt head, a 1/2 bolt head, but no 15/32 bolt head, or an 11.947mm bolt head.
You know why that is? Well, I'll tell you -- even though sometimes a 1/2 bolt head is just a bit too big, ONLY A FUCKING RETARD WANTS TO BUY 9,999 OPEN-END WRENCHES.

see?

Ya but: if they want good high-quality honey puffs and USD's can't get 'em. Then they pick a new tool. A hammer can't do everything.

u hear me brah? 

[Chef Ramsay]

Attempting to get this thread back on some sort of track

jhahahahahaha

 

how could it be "on track"  or "some sort of track" to bring up the LTC/BTC price?   


To me, that seems to be further off track, than a blocksize/spam discussion.   

A non-LTC halving move (unlike its last bubble in price) in LTC/BTC w/ the next BTC halving knocking on the door tends to imply that both prices will be going up. I'd say that LTC charts are fair game in discussing BTC moving up until they don't jive w/ BTC halving trends any longer. Mainstreet tends to buy alts and specifically LTC when they learn about crypto and see BTC as being too expensive.

[bargainbin]

^People like having the tools to get the jobs done. My debit card could be denominated in mittens, so long as I get my coffee.

People do not like needing a unique tool for every possible job. That's why there are things like standards -- a 7/16 bolt head, a 1/2 bolt head, but no 15/32 bolt head, or an 11.947mm bolt head.
You know why that is? Well, I'll tell you -- even though sometimes a 1/2 bolt head is just a bit too big, ONLY A FUCKING RETARD WANTS TO BUY 9,999 OPEN-END WRENCHES.

see?

Ya but: if they want good high-quality honey puffs and USD's can't get 'em. Then they pick a new tool. A hammer can't do everything.

u hear me brah?  

Yes, I see. You want to sell me a set of Whitworth wrenches.
No thanks.
But wait, it's actually worse -- you want to sell me the BSW wrenches, and are trying to convince me to install a Seagull outboard in my Bimmer.
Just so I won't feel stupid about buying your wrenches.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Man, you ever even had any of the honey puffs? Sometimes I get the feeling you're too mixed up with the straight community.
I better not find out you have a day job.

[bargainbin]

^^
And you'll probably not deliver on the wrenches or the Seagull outboard, and I'll stand there with my Bimmer in pieces & dick in hand.
Just like the average Bitcoin enthusiast, after transact with fellow pedophiles Bitcoin enthusiasts via the medium of Bitcoin.
Because I can see it clear as day already, don't lie to me -- I know exactly how it's gonna go down.

Right tool for the right job Remember, there IS no right job for Bitcoin. Well, none that doesn't involve underage kids or defrauding someone.
Bitcoin is a tool desperate for a job, but not really, more lies! Only interested in getting on teh dole.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[jbreher]

...actual blockchain use is low and the rest of the free space is topped off with spam. That's why fees don't rise. If every tx was legitimate...

What are the objective criteria by which any given transaction can be classified as being either: a) spam; or b) legitimate?

I have been asking this for months of many who like to kick around the term 'spam'. Many of them repeatedly. Perhaps even you? But to date, I have received exactly zero responsive replies.

[gentlemand]

...actual blockchain use is low and the rest of the free space is topped off with spam. That's why fees don't rise. If every tx was legitimate...

What are the objective criteria by which any given transaction can be classified as being either: a) spam; or b) legitimate?

I have been asking this for months of many who like to kick around the term 'spam'. Many of them repeatedly. Perhaps even you? But to date, I have received exactly zero responsive replies.

Look, these guys just KNOW. Alright? It's better if you just leave them to battle this evil spam while we sit back and relax. Thank you for your service,  fellas.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Is this controversial: Anything miners are willing to process isn't spam, until they're not willing to process it, at which point it gets flushed in 72 hours. Because it was spam.

 

[marcus_of_augustus]

I never understood why anyone would need censorship resistant monies to purchase a beverage anyway.

Hmm... well there are some circumstances where a sovereign digital currency can be helpful like when a person has all their bank accounts frozen or shutdown due to a lawsuit , bank mistake , asset forfeiture, or operation chokepoint and they want to make an internet purchase or tip someone remotely where cash cannot be used. Bitcoin also poses as a backstop to eliminate the effectiveness of banning physical fiat cash as there has been some recent discussions of banning the 100 dollar bill.

But I understand your central point , and agree, bitcoins primary purpose is to serve the underserved markets and act as regulatory arbitrage.

I am proud it is useful on the blackmarkets and deepweb for many purchases.

Canada stopped printing the 1000 dollar bill a while back for the same reason. The thing was pink. Anyhoo.

Donald Trump wants to bring back $500 and $1000 notes I heard!!

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I never understood why anyone would need censorship resistant monies to purchase a beverage anyway.

Hmm... well there are some circumstances where a sovereign digital currency can be helpful like when a person has all their bank accounts frozen or shutdown due to a lawsuit , bank mistake , asset forfeiture, or operation chokepoint and they want to make an internet purchase or tip someone remotely where cash cannot be used. Bitcoin also poses as a backstop to eliminate the effectiveness of banning physical fiat cash as there has been some recent discussions of banning the 100 dollar bill.

But I understand your central point , and agree, bitcoins primary purpose is to serve the underserved markets and act as regulatory arbitrage.

I am proud it is useful on the blackmarkets and deepweb for many purchases.

Canada stopped printing the 1000 dollar bill a while back for the same reason. The thing was pink. Anyhoo.

Donald Trump wants to bring back $500 and $1000 notes I heard!!

I don't follow sports, Marcus. That basketball?

[JayJuanGee]

Attempting to get this thread back on some sort of track

jhahahahahaha

 

how could it be "on track"  or "some sort of track" to bring up the LTC/BTC price?   


To me, that seems to be further off track, than a blocksize/spam discussion.   

A non-LTC halving move (unlike its last bubble in price) in LTC/BTC w/ the next BTC halving knocking on the door tends to imply that both prices will be going up. I'd say that LTC charts are fair game in discussing BTC moving up until they don't jive w/ BTC halving trends any longer. Mainstreet tends to buy alts and specifically LTC when they learn about crypto and see BTC as being too expensive.

Who really knows?


it is true that there can be some relationship with the price movements of various alts and BTC, and frequently, BTC can be the road in and out of Alts.

Unless, you are really adventurous, lucky, have inside news or can get in and out of alts at the right time, it is likely going to remain true that it is much more safe to have a majority of your crypto investment in bitcoin rather than diversifying randomly into a bunch of alts, including LTC.  Actually, LTC has had some parallel price movement as BTC, but I doubt that there is really any meaningful correlation, there.

[jbreher]

Is this controversial: Anything miners are willing to process isn't spam, until they're not willing to process it, at which point it gets flushed in 72 hours. Because it was spam.

 

While I'm with you, it doesn't really fit the bill. According to AlexGR, blocks are overwhelmingly full of spam. Yet if the spam makes it into a block, it does not meet your rational definition.

Plus, it offers no way of looking at a transaction in isolation, and classifying it as swipe left or swipe right.

Thanks anyhoo.

[BitUsher]

...actual blockchain use is low and the rest of the free space is topped off with spam. That's why fees don't rise. If every tx was legitimate...

What are the objective criteria by which any given transaction can be classified as being either: a) spam; or b) legitimate?

I have been asking this for months of many who like to kick around the term 'spam'. Many of them repeatedly. Perhaps even you? But to date, I have received exactly zero responsive replies.

Spam includes any unwanted or unnecessary transactions which impose a burden upon the network.

Unwanted and Unnecessary can be defined as tx which are deliberately made to attack the network and hold no purpose other than to cause disruption or bloat. Spam is also defined as any tx that pays far below the necessary threshold of fees that would be considered the norm during a given moment. This can change with time but is always quite distinguishable as seen here:

https://bitcoinfees.21.co/#delay

In the chart above you can see :

21-40 Satoshi's Per Byte is arguable
0-20 Satoshi's Per Byte is clearly spam  

Now it is not for us to decide for a miner if they want to subsidize or process spam on the network regardless of any externalities it imposes upon all full nodes permanently and the network  as a whole. One goal of a fee market is to eventually incentivize miners to begin to slowly value tx fees rather than merely the block reward which means tx fees need to increase to 5-10 usd per tx eventually once block reward is practically non-existent. Simply increasing the blocksize will never produce enough volume to compensate for these fees as it doesn't scale like payment channels do which can than pass on really high tx fees onto miners for a large set of aggregated txs as a settlement.

Is this controversial: Anything miners are willing to process isn't spam, until they're not willing to process it, at which point it gets flushed in 72 hours. Because it was spam.

 

While I'm with you, it doesn't really fit the bill. According to AlexGR, blocks are overwhelmingly full of spam. Yet if the spam makes it into a block, it does not meet your rational definition.

Plus, it offers no way of looking at a transaction in isolation, and classifying it as swipe left or swipe right.

Thanks anyhoo.

Spam is sometimes difficult to define without context(the overall fee market at a given time) or without clear evidence (during an attack), but certainly exists. It is hard to say how much of it makes it within a block as well, but it certainly fills the mempool and at times fills excess capacity in blocks(during attacks)