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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26372565 times)
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Elwar
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March 11, 2016, 10:10:47 AM

Sell over $420, buy under $420 Tongue

At least until any major developments occur.
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March 11, 2016, 10:34:46 AM


I will take it on faith that those graphs are factually accurate.


That goes for the graphs of blockchain.info as well. Luckily, all data is public, so everyone can check it if he wants.

Quote
they still don't demonstrate some kind of emergency state, and even though a bit more granular than blockchain.info, they are not really showing anything that should cause panic. 

Suppose a bus company starts running a service in 2010. At first, you'd only see one or two people in the bus. As the bus service becomes more known, more people travel on the bus. Nowadays, busses are often completely occupied. It's common that people are left at the bus stops having to wait for the next one, esp. if they bought the cheapest tickets.

You can see that this happens more and more often. However, anyone who bought the most expensive ticket always manages to get on the next bus. Nevertheless, it happens more and more often that more and more people with the cheap tickets have to skip buses.

Yet, you say there's no reason for panic. You don't expect that the demand for the bus service will keep growing.

Quote
I do wish that blockchain.info would come out with some more granular charts to maybe break down by hourly or even shorter periods and to be able to zoom in or out in order to better see if there are some rush hour periods..

What's so special about blockchain.info, I wonder.

Quote
and maybe even if there are ways to show charts that separate spam and legit transactions 

I can imagine that a flood of tx without fee can be considered spam. But nowadays, only mining pools use zero fee tx to payout their miners. There are hardly any zero fee tx issued otherwise. (800 in the past 24 hours, source: https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ ) But if a tx carries a fee, how to decide if it's spam or not? What is your definition of spam?

Quote
I get the sense that seg wit filters out spam too, so maybe we are going to witness some better representations of what's going on once seg wit is live?.

How does SW filters spam? How does it decide which tx is spam and which is not?

Quote
Anyhow, there is work on seg wit at the moment and a plan to begin with that (coming soon) and then to give further consideration to whether an additional physical block size limitation needs to be incorporated as well.. so I really am still having difficulties grappling with some of the panick.   

How many people need to wait for how many next buses until you panic? Or don't you care about others, as long as you can afford your bus ticket?

In other words: how many tx do you think Bitcoin should be able to process today, in 3 months, in 6 months, and in one year's time?

Fact: the number if tx per day is close to the limit of 250,000. We recently touched that twice. (sources: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=2year&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address= , http://www.coindesk.com/data/bitcoin-daily-transactions/ )

We crossed the 20,000 tx/day in June 2012
We crossed the 50,000 tx/day in August 2013
We crossed the 100,000 tx/day in March 2015
We crossed the 200,000 tx/day in January 2016

And the hard limit is a little over 250,000...

So, do you think 250,000 tx/day is sufficient for Bitcoin to be successful? Do you think 400,000 tx/day is sufficient by the end of this year, when SW is rolled out and most other software is updated to take advantage of it? Do you think 400,000 tx/day will be enough until LN comes into existence?




Thanks, nice analysis.
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March 11, 2016, 10:50:03 AM

Hi! How You think what price was btc in this pump? 450$?
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March 11, 2016, 11:01:04 AM

Coin



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Tzupy
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March 11, 2016, 11:33:08 AM

Russia is getting tougher on cryptos:
http://www.coindesk.com/report-russia-to-propose-7-year-prison-sentences-for-digital-currency-issuers/
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March 11, 2016, 11:35:45 AM

see what happens when brian armstrong and gavin stop talking? price goes up



https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andersen-bitcoin-network-increasingly-unreliable/
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March 11, 2016, 12:00:31 PM

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March 11, 2016, 12:08:35 PM

This is it.

That's disappointing. No boat for me then.
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March 11, 2016, 12:13:56 PM
Last edit: March 11, 2016, 01:32:02 PM by AlexGR

Suppose a bus company starts running a service in 2010. At first, you'd only see one or two people in the bus. As the bus service becomes more known, more people travel on the bus. Nowadays, busses are often completely occupied. It's common that people are left at the bus stops having to wait for the next one, esp. if they bought the cheapest tickets.

The difference between buses and blockchains is that buses can only take onboard real passengers, not ...fake ones.

Blockchains can be burdened with millions of transactions just because one guy, that didn't even want to make one legitimate transaction, wants to have fun.

Quote
I can imagine that a flood of tx without fee can be considered spam. But nowadays, only mining pools use zero fee tx to payout their miners. There are hardly any zero fee tx issued otherwise. (800 in the past 24 hours, source: https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ ) But if a tx carries a fee, how to decide if it's spam or not? What is your definition of spam?

Someone "pays" for 1mb of spam with 1 satoshi per byte. Thus for occupying 1mb of space, he only needs 1 million satoshi = 0.01 btc = 4.2$.

He can actually occupy the entire's day blockspace of 144mb by "paying" 604.8$.

Even at 2mb, he can buy a block at 8$ and a day's worth of blocks at 1200$.

Does this mean that he is not a spammer because he "paid" a ridiculously low amount of money?

Quote
Fact: the number if tx per day is close to the limit of 250,000. We recently touched that twice. (sources: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=2year&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address= , http://www.coindesk.com/data/bitcoin-daily-transactions/ )

We crossed the 20,000 tx/day in June 2012
We crossed the 50,000 tx/day in August 2013
We crossed the 100,000 tx/day in March 2015
We crossed the 200,000 tx/day in January 2016

And the hard limit is a little over 250,000...

So, do you think 250,000 tx/day is sufficient for Bitcoin to be successful? Do you think 400,000 tx/day is sufficient by the end of this year, when SW is rolled out and most other software is updated to take advantage of it? Do you think 400,000 tx/day will be enough until LN comes into existence?

Compare these:

Number of transactions: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions

vs

Number of Transactions Excluding Chains Longer Than 10: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-chains-longer-than-10
Number of Transactions Excluding Chains Longer Than 100: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-chains-longer-than-100
Number of Transactions Excluding Chains Longer Than 1000: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-chains-longer-than-1000
Number of Transactions Excluding Chains Longer Than 10,000: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-chains-longer-than-10000

(long chains = moving money to next address => to next address => to next address => to next address => ...)

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March 11, 2016, 12:25:25 PM


I wonder how long it will take before the russians get their act together and boot out the siloviki. It's painful to watch when otherwise clever people support this kind of evil.
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March 11, 2016, 12:27:39 PM

The Russian soul has been custom designed to suffer through the tolerance of totalitarian arseholes. It's a very special skill and I applaud them.
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March 11, 2016, 12:47:17 PM

Sell over $420, buy under $420 Tongue

At least until any major developments occur.

and you know what to do when it's at 420 Cheesy
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March 11, 2016, 01:00:37 PM

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March 11, 2016, 01:13:06 PM

the price seems to be climbing at a very slow pace but its still better than nothing i guess, i hope it wont stop right now

im slowly but surely making profit out of that, it would be ideal if the price would go all the time till halving event as we would reach some high numbers
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March 11, 2016, 01:26:52 PM

Quote
and maybe even if there are ways to show charts that separate spam and legit transactions 

I can imagine that a flood of tx without fee can be considered spam. But nowadays, only mining pools use zero fee tx to payout their miners. There are hardly any zero fee tx issued otherwise. (800 in the past 24 hours, source: https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ ) But if a tx carries a fee, how to decide if it's spam or not?

What is your definition of spam?

Don't you get it? Anything > 1 MB is spam.
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March 11, 2016, 01:35:37 PM

Suppose a bus company starts running a service in 2010. At first, you'd only see one or two people in the bus. As the bus service becomes more known, more people travel on the bus. Nowadays, busses are often completely occupied. It's common that people are left at the bus stops having to wait for the next one, esp. if they bought the cheapest tickets.

The difference between buses and blockchains is that buses can only take onboard real passengers, not ...fake ones.

Blockchains can be burdened with millions of transactions just because one guy, that didn't even want to make one legitimate transactions, wants to have fun.

Quote
I can imagine that a flood of tx without fee can be considered spam. But nowadays, only mining pools use zero fee tx to payout their miners. There are hardly any zero fee tx issued otherwise. (800 in the past 24 hours, source: https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ ) But if a tx carries a fee, how to decide if it's spam or not? What is your definition of spam?

Someone "pays" for 1mb of spam with 1 satoshi per byte. Thus for occupying 1mb of space, he only needs 1 million satoshi = 0.01 btc = 4.2$.

He can actually occupy the entire's day blockspace of 144mb by "paying" 604.8$.

Even at 2mb, he can buy a block at 8$ and a day's worth of blocks at 1200$.

Does this mean that he is not a spammer because he "paid" a ridiculously low amount of money?

So the definition of spam is something that is bought cheap? The water coming out of my tap is cheap, so if I use that water I'm spamming the water supply?

Currently, 1 MB blocks can be bought for about 0.5 BTC, or $200.  If tx are too cheap, the price should be raised to the point it becomes economical. Instead of putting a limit on supply.

Quote
Quote

Fact: the number if tx per day is close to the limit of 250,000. We recently touched that twice. (sources: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=2year&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address= , http://www.coindesk.com/data/bitcoin-daily-transactions/ )

We crossed the 20,000 tx/day in June 2012
We crossed the 50,000 tx/day in August 2013
We crossed the 100,000 tx/day in March 2015
We crossed the 200,000 tx/day in January 2016

And the hard limit is a little over 250,000...

So, do you think 250,000 tx/day is sufficient for Bitcoin to be successful? Do you think 400,000 tx/day is sufficient by the end of this year, when SW is rolled out and most other software is updated to take advantage of it? Do you think 400,000 tx/day will be enough until LN comes into existence?

Compare these:

Number of transactions: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions

vs

Number of Transactions Excluding Chains Longer Than 10: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-chains-longer-than-10
Number of Transactions Excluding Chains Longer Than 100: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-chains-longer-than-100
Number of Transactions Excluding Chains Longer Than 1000: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-chains-longer-than-1000
Number of Transactions Excluding Chains Longer Than 10,000: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-chains-longer-than-10000

(long chains = moving money to next address => to next address => to next address => to next address => ...)


From these graphs I conclude that about 2/3rd of all tx are part of chains longer than 10. So what? I suspect those who do these tx have a reason for it, and are willing to pay for it.

The fundamental problem seems to be that the true cost of a tx is not covered by the fee. That's why people who do long chain transactions are not discouraged by the costs of doing so. If this is a threat to Bitcoin, the price of tx should be raised (a minimum fee that truly covers the tx cost), or the efficiency should be increased (bigger blocks, LN).

Question is, what should the minimum fee be at a given block size limit to have enough headroom for a consistent user experience? Recycling an arbitrary limit as a capacity quota is not a good answer.


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March 11, 2016, 01:48:40 PM

The actual problem is that there are people out there who think they know better what the cap is supposed to be than Satoshi's 1MB.

Another advantage of the 1MB cap is that once these idiots realize they can't really change it, they will fork off from Bitcoin to their favourite shitcoin, taking their shitty poet shills and useless economic activity with them.
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March 11, 2016, 01:55:00 PM

My scaling solution is to encourage people to use altcoins.

Durr?
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March 11, 2016, 02:01:21 PM

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March 11, 2016, 02:02:12 PM

The actual problem is that there are people out there who think they know better what the cap is supposed to be than Satoshi's 1MB.

Another advantage of the 1MB cap is that once these idiots realize they can't really change it, they will fork off from Bitcoin to their favourite shitcoin, taking their shitty poet shills and useless economic activity with them.
Check out this guy, who actually had the arrogance to propose how to remove Satoshi's cap.
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