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Question: How far will this leg take us?
$110K - 9 (8.3%)
$120K - 19 (17.6%)
$130K - 17 (15.7%)
$140K - 9 (8.3%)
$150K - 19 (17.6%)
$160K - 2 (1.9%)
$170K+ - 33 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 108

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26967333 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 1 users with 9 merit deleted.)
Holliday
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February 18, 2017, 02:49:00 AM

I'm guessing he was referring to the EB parameter - Excessive Block - which is the limit at which your BU node will provisionally (i.e., up to the AD - Acceptance Depth) accept as a provisionally admissible blockchain tip. For reasons (heh), BU defaults that parameter to 16MB. However, it is just a GUI setting to change it. I have mine set to 2MB.

Dunno, he just said "permits".

I understand that concern. However, I think we will never again see an era of miners accepting zero-fee transactions as they have done in the past. Bear in mind that each additional byte that a miner includes in a block is a real cost to that miner, in the form of a larger probability of his block (if indeed that miner solves that round) being orphaned. Bigger block, more likely to be orphaned. This is where some of us believe the proper market forces should operate to set block size - not some central planning edict from the devs.

It's certainly an optimistic view. I haven't mined in a while (never trusted pre-pay ASIC vendors), but when I did, miners were mostly morons who would happily pay a pool a fee in order to avoid variance while they could mine on a smaller, lower fee (or even no fee) pool and earn more. Maybe they've wised up since you actually have to shell out semi-serious money to be a miner these days. Wasn't it just recently (a year or so) when some large pool was having it's blocks orphaned from some SPV related mining method? Anyway, I'd assume miners to act in their rational self-interests, so there is that.

I would also argue that choosing to run software which limits the block size to 1 MB is not "central planning", but proper market forces choosing that parameter much in the same way they agree to the 21 million coin limit.

I understand that too. Indeed, all things being equal, more nodes is better than less nodes. Couple of points to consider:

- BU does not necessarily lead to larger blocks. I believe it likely will, but it may not. What it does is make it easy for each user to signal his preferences and set his limits. Inasmuch as Bitcoin operates _at_all_ because it harnesses the interests of its participants to 'do right', we believe the participants are the correct parties to determine the maxblocksize.

I'm fairly certain that BU would lead to larger blocks. It seems to be the primary reason for it's existence. As far as participants choosing the maxblocksize, ultimately they will, but with the only metric that matters, their wallet.

- The SegWit Omnibus Changeset allows 4MB blocks as well. Perhaps you do not support The SegWit Omnibus Changeset either, but it does bear mentioning.

4 MB seems huge to me and it might be a strong reason why SegWit isn't gaining acceptance as fast as it otherwise might.

- In the meantime, Bitcoin -- at 1MB blocks -- is hard-capped at ~250,000 transactions per day. Period. The consequences of this could rationally be argued to be constraining new entrants into the system. (Indeed, I would say it is obvious that it does, but grant that others may have a differing opinion.) The pool of node operators is a self-selected subset of Bitcoiners. If we prevent new Bitcoiners from entering the system, the potential population from which node operators are selected cannot grow. Many of us think it likely that some percentage of new entrants will start up nodes. So increasing block size may actually result in more operational full nodes.

When I read a new thread about "slow confirmation" or "expensive transaction fees", I see most people complaining about the inability to send low value transactions, with tiny fees, and have them confirm rapidly. If these are the kind of "new" users we hope to acquire by increasing the block size, I have my doubts that many of them would be interested in the extra expenses incurred from running a full node (especially if the bandwidth requirements are further increased). Maybe I'm wrong.

I run a full node because I am extremely interested in the freedom Bitcoin can provide and I want to do my part to support the health of the network. Censorship-proof transactions along with a seize-proof store of value is immensely important in today's world of ever increasing capital controls, not to mention the escalating war on cash. I don't transact with Bitcoin that often. I certainly don't think that "buying a coffee at Starbucks" is a brilliant use case for Bitcoin.

I say it all the time, but it bears repeating: Every transaction does not need to be censorship-proof in a world where censorship-proof transactions exist.

The people complaining about confirmation time or fees seem to want to use Bitcoin for common, everyday purchases and that just doesn't make any sense to me. Bitcoin is far too powerful a tool for our mundane, daily purchases, especially considering the real resources that are required for block chain upkeep and maintenance. Who is more interested in the basically altruistic act of running a full node, the guy who wants unfettered transfer of value between individuals, or the guy paying for his carrots at the grocery store? Maybe you are right and some of those new people will become fanatics like me, but I just don't see it.

I'm not arguing that we should artificially limit the transaction capacity of Bitcoin. I just think we should increase it intelligently, in a way that doesn't just cram more data into the permanent ledger which every full node must keep a copy of forever. Perhaps the reason an increase hasn't happened already is because there is no good solution yet.
orpington
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February 18, 2017, 02:58:33 AM

Just for clarification - what is a 'fake node'?

Kinda like a "so-called" president with a "fake" administration?

 Tongue

Isn't it CNN running FAKE Nodes?
prophetx
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February 18, 2017, 03:28:13 AM

gee this used to be the trading thread ...


look, it's real simple, someone always has to pay.

right now the people doing transactions have to pay more, and some people are getting priced out.  so the real question is... yes decentralization, but for whom?  the answer bitcoin gives is: not the poor.

the rich can have bitcoin, the poor will have to use ripple
JayJuanGee
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February 18, 2017, 05:01:12 AM

gee this used to be the trading thread ...


look, it's real simple, someone always has to pay.

right now the people doing transactions have to pay more, and some people are getting priced out.  so the real question is... yes decentralization, but for whom?  the answer bitcoin gives is: not the poor.

the rich can have bitcoin, the poor will have to use ripple


What facts are you talking about when you refer to some people getting "priced out?"  presumeably due to high fees?

In the past year, I have probably done a bit more than 100 transactions, and therefore averaged nearly 10 transactions per month, and the quantities that I send have been largely between .1BTC and 15BTC, with a few outliers.  My fees have been usually been between $.04 and $.60, and more frequently when I can control the fees, then I usually will use a fee of $.10 on lower value transactions and maybe $.15-ish on higher value transactions.  Those fees get me highest priority.  I don't think that I get a higher priority for using higher fees.  My transaction times vary anywhere between a few minutes and a few days, but I think that the slow times are either luck or just that sometimes there are spam attacks taking place that slow down transactions while those spam attacks are happening.

I agree that if the amount of value transacted is smaller, then the fees are going to be a relatively larger percentage of the transacted amount, but still the fees seem to be generally manageable for most people no?

I understand that bitcoin is a work in progress, so we are likely to have a lot of fee related solutions and options in the future, but I cannot really understand your claim about some folks currently being "priced out."  Can you explain your reference?  Is it personal experience or just hypothetical?  Or someone told you the conclusion that people are "being priced out?"

or maybe you are just making shit up in order to pump the scam coin, ripple?  You realize that ripple is a quasi-centralized platform?  you don't get secure immutable value transfer or storage from ripple.. did you know that, or you just trying to spread misinformation in order to pump that crap?
JimboToronto
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February 18, 2017, 05:19:25 AM

Just got back from live music and I see we're still moving up. Over 1000EUR at most exchanges.

Are we at $800 yet? LOL
Torque
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February 18, 2017, 06:37:48 AM

Are we at $800 yet? LOL

Yeah tomorrow, when China has inspection or bans bitcoin again. Lol.
edgar
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February 18, 2017, 07:38:30 AM

poolminor the prophetic seems to have forsaken us..

paging poolminor, im gonna need some of them $800 coins, stat!
Kramerc
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February 18, 2017, 08:00:47 AM

Most people can't see the difference between a bull market and a croissant.

BTFD :/
HanvanBitcoin
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February 18, 2017, 08:06:44 AM

Todays forecast:
JayJuanGee
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February 18, 2017, 08:13:41 AM

poolminor the prophetic seems to have forsaken us..

paging poolminor, im gonna need some of them $800 coins, stat!


hahahaha.... but for sure he is correct.. because the price is going to correct - the devil is in the details, though... because when it goes up before it goes down, you know that he will still be coming in here claiming to be correct - whether the correction occurs before $1,100 or whether the price corrects at supra $2k.. he is still going to come in and claim that he was correct.

Ted E. Bare
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February 18, 2017, 08:18:36 AM

My guess: we will never see $800 again.
rjclarke2000
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February 18, 2017, 09:02:01 AM

My guess: we will never see $800 again.


That is very brave to say! I agree as long as the ETF is approved. If not I expect a drop to possibly the 800s.
K~Ehleyr
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Ooh, shiny things!!


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February 18, 2017, 09:31:09 AM

Over €1,000 euros now... please stick, please stick, please stick!!!  Tongue
rjclarke2000
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February 18, 2017, 09:40:14 AM

Over €1,000 euros now... please stick, please stick, please stick!!!  Tongue


Over £1000 would be nice next.
K~Ehleyr
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Ooh, shiny things!!


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February 18, 2017, 09:44:38 AM

Over €1,000 euros now... please stick, please stick, please stick!!!  Tongue


Over £1000 would be nice next.

That would make me very happy!  Grin
Ted E. Bare
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February 18, 2017, 09:45:43 AM

Let's buy some extra coins for our British friend rjclarke. Push that bitcoin! Cheesy
rjclarke2000
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February 18, 2017, 09:52:50 AM

Let's buy some extra coins for our British friend rjclarke. Push that bitcoin! Cheesy

If you all do that you are more than welcome to come and have a big party at mine. The wife won't be happy but there you go.
Denker
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February 18, 2017, 10:06:24 AM

Are we at $800 yet? LOL

Yeah tomorrow, when China has inspection or bans bitcoin again. Lol.

Do these guys work and make announcements at the weekend?
I'd guess we have time until monday before some new idiotic statement gets released with the attempt to push the price downwards again.
craked5
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February 18, 2017, 10:27:29 AM

Let's buy some extra coins for our British friend rjclarke. Push that bitcoin! Cheesy

If you all do that you are more than welcome to come and have a big party at mine. The wife won't be happy but there you go.

The adress? :p

On a more serious note it seems that everyone is pushing this as hell!
So... Time for shorting no?
rjclarke2000
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February 18, 2017, 10:29:13 AM

Let's buy some extra coins for our British friend rjclarke. Push that bitcoin! Cheesy

If you all do that you are more than welcome to come and have a big party at mine. The wife won't be happy but there you go.

The adress? :p

On a more serious note it seems that everyone is pushing this as hell!
So... Time for shorting no?


We all know what happens after a little upwards movement. Unfortunate but I'm expecting this next week. We shall see. I hope I am wrong.

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