Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Asrael999]

This is scary:

Antminer s9
13.th/s
1300w

time to generate 1 BTC with 13.5th/s 175 days
daily power cost at 0.06 cent rate, 1.87 US/day
175 day x 1.87USD =

only 327.25USD power cost to generate one BTC!!!!

Cost of 327USD would be fine at rates like 700-1000USD but hashrate is atleast 3 times too small to support current 2200USD price.

Hashrate has no time to correct this, price will.

Problem is just to get this Antminer in quick order.
Always all of them is sold out in pre-orders

Of cource those are "sold out" while they mine at bitmains farm just as we write here.

And with hardware cost at $2100+ $200 for a power supply, it's a 7.5 month wait before you even return a profit - and that assumes constant difficulty - probably safe to say that it will be nearer 12-15 months before you saw a profit.....

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[toknormal]

Please tell me more about the real growth of BTC. Tell me what modern financial and economical problems has BTC solved.

There was only one significant problem to be solved and that was how to implement a pure monetary bearer token on an electronic platform.

Bitcoin is solving this problem successfully while Ethereum has been a disaster at it so far, on two counts in particular:

 • the original chain has already been reproduced so it can kiss goodbye any hope it ever had of long term store of value
 • it isn't a monetary asset, its value is implicit and based on the speculative monetary velocity generated by the business model contracts running on top of it

As regards merchant adoption and so on, you should familiarise yourself with the distinction between currencies and their underlying collateralising assets. Bitcoin doesn't need merchant adoption to do its job (store value). No collateralising asset does. It just needs to hold and accrue value long term against significant fiat currencies.

If you really think FOMO price spikes over a 3 month period is a sign of the long term viability of an electronic asset then the recommended cure is a quick look at coinmarketcap.com in internet archive for a comprehensive presentation of skeletons that were all about to be "the next bitcoin"  

[Torque]

Please tell me more about the real growth of BTC. Tell me what modern financial and economical problems has BTC solved.

Bitcoin: a decentralized deflationary asset, that sits outside of the debt-fueled & highly rigged fiat banking system existing in an inflationary world. Solves a lot of financial and economic problems for many that take the plunge.

[lost_in_base]

Pump at bitstamp. Prepare for dip!

[pinger]

Pump at bitstamp. Prepare for dip!

China is back

https://twitter.com/cnLedger/status/869934911179735040

[gentlemand]

China is back

https://twitter.com/cnLedger/status/869934911179735040

Hello. You'd better behave yourselves this time. We don't want any of your previous rubbish, you cheeky monkeys.

I wonder how many accounts refused to verify themselves.

[Torque]

China is back

https://twitter.com/cnLedger/status/869934911179735040

Hello. You'd better behave yourselves this time. We don't want any of your previous rubbish, you cheeky monkeys.

I wonder how many accounts refused to verify themselves.

So I guess "China Bans Bitcoin!" is never gonna happen again? Aww...

[gentlemand]

So I guess "China Bans Bitcoin!" is never gonna happen again? Aww...

I'm sure it's only a matter of time again, however it was unashamed good news last time.

As they're so hot on controlling market exuberance there'll probably be a guy in a PBOC office with a huge brass lever turning the market off and on a few hundred times a day.

[pinger]

China is back

https://twitter.com/cnLedger/status/869934911179735040

Hello. You'd better behave yourselves this time. We don't want any of your previous rubbish, you cheeky monkeys.

I wonder how many accounts refused to verify themselves.

So I guess "China Bans Bitcoin!" is never gonna happen again? Aww...

Next week or so I guess. I for sure going to happen. It depends on all of us, to start selling like crazy just in case next time is real.

[Torque]

China is back

https://twitter.com/cnLedger/status/869934911179735040

Hello. You'd better behave yourselves this time. We don't want any of your previous rubbish, you cheeky monkeys.

I wonder how many accounts refused to verify themselves.

So I guess "China Bans Bitcoin!" is never gonna happen again? Aww...

Next week or so I guess. I for sure going to happen. It depends on all of us, to start selling like crazy just in case next time is real.

Nah, my bet is on "Korea bans ETH!" or "Korea bans alt coins!" or some shit like that. 

[JimboToronto]

Hopefully we'll wake up soon.

Wakey wakey?

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

Please tell me more about the real growth of BTC. Tell me what modern financial and economical problems has BTC solved.

There was only one significant problem to be solved and that was how to implement a pure monetary bearer token on an electronic platform.

Bitcoin is solving this problem successfully while Ethereum has been a disaster at it so far, on two counts in particular:

 • the original chain has already been reproduced so it can kiss goodbye any hope it ever had of long term store of value
 • it isn't a monetary asset, its value is implicit and based on the speculative monetary velocity generated by the business model contracts running on top of it

As regards merchant adoption and so on, you should familiarise yourself with the distinction between currencies and their underlying collateralising assets. Bitcoin doesn't need merchant adoption to do its job (store value). No collateralising asset does. It just needs to hold and accrue value long term against significant fiat currencies.

If you really think FOMO price spikes over a 3 month period is a sign of the long term viability of an electronic asset then the recommended cure is a quick look at coinmarketcap.com in internet archive for a comprehensive presentation of skeletons that were all about to be "the next bitcoin"  

Investors don't care about the specifics of hardforking. If the hardfork solves a problem then no specifics are needed. Nobody cares about the religious dogmas of the small cult surrounding this technology. Investors just want fast solutions that work and that's it. Religion vs rationality conflict that bitcoin experiences is just tiresome for any outside observer.
And I would never consider something as speculative as crypto as a proper store of value. A good store of value asset is something that is actually needed, so it's production, demand and value can be relatively safely speculated. Cryptos are just for the temporal game. When one crypto will actually start solving practical problems, then it will get interesting and possibly even as long-term investment. Otherwise I think it's ..brave to sit on a crypto even a full year.

Bitcoin is a crappy monetary asset because it lacks value stability. You can't actually use this monetary asset as a value reference unit in practical business, because it lacks the needed stability. If bitcoin will loose it's attractiveness for speculation, then many won't play with bitcoin anymore. Majority owners of bitcoin did not buy it because it's an convenient form of monetary asset. Their main goal was either to speculate by selling later with a higher price, or maybe use bitcoin in the tor markets where only bitcoin is allowed. If someone considers this as a solid pillar for an long-term investment, then I think that Darwin will do his thing.

FOMO is the god of crypto. You must bow to FOMO and witness its superiority to receive gifts from it. As long as there aren't any cryptos out there yet, that are practical outside of black markets, then FOMO is the only driving force for everything here. Even a bitcoiner has to bow to FOMO, even if FOMO loves it's younger children more..

[luckygenough56]

i smell fish

[lost_in_base]

i smell fish

The fish is that okcoin people will dump their BTC for LTC and ETH withdrawals.

W/d limit based on vip level, starting from 10BTC/200LTC/1000ETH daily

[Dotto]

I smell sushi

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

Please tell me more about the real growth of BTC. Tell me what modern financial and economical problems has BTC solved.

Bitcoin: a decentralized deflationary asset, that sits outside of the debt-fueled & highly rigged fiat banking system existing in an inflationary world. Solves a lot of financial and economic problems for many that take the plunge.

Asset that's value is deflated by artificial scarcity is an asset with a very fragile value.
I recognize the youtube generation through this banks are evil stance. People who study about finance, economics and laws through youtube commentators who had a little too much coffee before going on-air. Of course there are flaws with national banking and with laws that regulate the relationship between them and commercial banks. But these flaws are mainly political. As long as people go and elect leaders, based on what they heard from the same excited youtube commentator, then you can be sure that laws and order will suck pretty bad.
Banking is like any other field, there are moral people and there are immoral people. Trying to demonize banking in general is the way how bad people use the uneducated people to hide their crimes in the shroud of gibberish. No names will be named and no specific choices will be criticized.

If a nation would adopt a currency with value deflation then the rich would get a lot richer and the poor would get a lot poorer. It's already a lot easier to make money when you have money. But a currency with value deflation would even make the rich richer, without them having to do any work and development for it. That is why talks like "bitcoin would cure the banking problem" sounds as retarded to me as putting a dynamite in your pants to ease a scratch.

[toknormal]

Investors don't care about the specifics of hardforking.

Did you make that theory up all by yourself ?

Bitcoin is a crappy monetary asset because it lacks value stability. You can't actually use this monetary asset as a value reference unit in practical business

I appreciate you need to live up to your handle but that may be taking it a bit far, even for irony  

The whole point of a store of value is that it isn't stable (because it has to accrue value against the prevailing stable currency). So bitcoin's volatility is a sign of 2 things:

1. that it's operating in a free market and is correctly able to reflect the balance of supply and demand

2. that it's growing very rapidly

Store of value and stable currency are mutually exclusive objectives. The only way you can make a currency "stable" in terms of purchasing power is to vary its supply in response to demand (otherwise it will be...volatile). On the other hand, the only way you can preserve value is to fix the supply.

Regarding your beloved "1-3 month gains", think it through for a moment. Why is Ether massively shooting up in value ?...because there's a tsunami of IPOs coming over the horizon, all of which require Ether to buy into them.

What will happen now that the IPO founders are bagholding a gazilion Ether at 2x the value it was against Bitcoin when they announced and also an ATH ?........cash out to BTC (or $USD), being the defacto store of value, since they know that's what everyone else will be doing.

(Not to mention a wave of competing blockchains that are about to make Ethereum look as obsolete as a record player when CDs came along).

[bitserve]

I sent bitcoin few days ago with $0.25 fee which is what was recommended by wallet and it still hasn't confirmed. Is it really that bad?

Yes, whatever wallet you are using is really bad or poorly updated. $0.25 seems like too little even for a single input and output transaction.

[gentlemand]

I sent bitcoin few days ago with $0.25 fee which is what was recommended by wallet and it still hasn't confirmed. Is it really that bad?

Yes, whatever wallet you are using is really bad or poorly updated. $0.25 seems like too little even for a single input and output transaction.

I'm averaging about a $2 fee for 1-2 input transactions. They're all going through fine within 20 minutes. I've never had a stuck or slow one.

[luckygenough56]

am afraid eth eats more of btc marketcap now