Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[r0ach]

I typed why bitcoin is not fungible and you avoided that issue like the plague.

In regard to fungibility you have no point to make.  You can cry about fungibility all you want but the markets are rallying behind bitcoin and have no problem with the level of fungibility it has.

Ok, you've already outed yourself as a fraud now.  Anyone can pump and dump anything.  Just because someone makes the price of an asset rise does not grant it objective, non-opinion based traits like fungibility.  You're now arguing from a leftist viewpoint where they claim things like sex and race are social constructs.  No, objective reality exists and cryptocurrency never has and never will be fungible.  Somebody get Trace Mayer the fuck outta here, or whoever this wannabe Trace Mayer is.

[traincarswreck]

 You already admitted bitcoin is not a reliable store of value (I would say because it's synthetic price floor is recursive based on it's own demand while metals economics are non-recursive) so we can skip that issue, but all it takes is even failing one aspect like fungibility and bitcoin is not money anyways.  Getting tired repeating myself, but it's called cryptocurrency for a reason.

No I didn't say its an unreliable store of value I said it can't be perfectly stable in value as it is deflationary etc.  Gold we should note has been losing its value for the last 5 years and this is without bitcoin influencing it.  Gold is no longer a reliable store of wealth and this observable.

all it takes is even failing one aspect like fungibility and bitcoin is not money anyways.

None of the aspects are failing, bitcoin is clearly money and people are using as such.  You have created an esoteric definition.

  Getting tired repeating myself, but it's called cryptocurrency for a reason.

You tire because you have twisted the definitions and argued for something that is irrational under scrutiny which your definitions don't allow.  

You have argued gold is superior in the face of contrasting evidence and that bitcoin fails due to fungibility in the face of contrasting evidence.

[traincarswreck]

Ok, you've already outed yourself as a fraud now.  Anyone can pump and dump anything.  Just because someone makes the price of an asset rise does not grant it objective, non-opinion based traits like fungibility.  You're now arguing from a leftist viewpoint where they claim things like sex and race are social constructs.  No, objective reality exists and cryptocurrency never has and never will be fungible.  Get Trace Mayer the fuck outta here, or whoever this wannabe Trace Mayer is.

You have argued bitcoin fails to be fungible and therefore fails to be money.  I have argued bitcoin doesn't fail and so it doesn't suffer a fungibility problem that has any significance.

You know what is really happening?  

Bitcoin has threatened your core beliefs and in regard to fight or flight you have chosen to go on a forum that discusses something you know little about and don't support or believe in to fight and argue against it with no intention to seek truth.

It's no wonder you are tired and your argument falls on deaf ears.

[Torque]

Getting tired repeating myself, but it's called cryptocurrency for a reason.

We're getting tired of you repeating yourself too, dude. You come into this thread every night not only repeating the same old tired arguments over and over, you've even resorted to copy-pasting your own old rambling texts from previous posts.

We've all heard your arguments about Bitcoin, and we still don't care. If someone perceives Bitcoin to be a superior form of money or value transfer over precious metals, then let them.

We don't need you to be the patron saint of Precious Metals, any more than we need to hear JStolfi's tired arguments of why cryptocurrency in general is a worthless giant Ponzi scheme.

[r0ach]

I have argued bitcoin doesn't fail and so it doesn't suffer a fungibility problem that has any significance.

Again, more leftist-style nonsense where people claim things like sex and race are social constructs or that you can be 1/2 pregnant.  It's either fungible or it's not, and it's not actually possible for cryptocurrency to be fungible.

Bitcoin has threatened your core beliefs and in regard to fight or flight you have chosen to go on a forum that discusses something you know little about and don't support or believe in to fight and argue against it with no intention to seek truth.

This is something that cult members type.  This is why I said I'm probably talking to Trace Mayer.  When you talk about bitcoin and use words like "belief system" it's outrageous.  Bitcoin is simply a linked list with a get rich quick scheme built on top of it.  It's not even a new invention, the linked list has existed a long time.  Bitcoin is not a religion, although you seem to think it is; it's just a plain old Rube Goldberg machine, not the second coming of jesus.

[jojo69]

aaaaaaaand

ignore engaged

ahhhh, so much nicer in here now

[Torque]

When you talk about bitcoin and use words like "belief system" it's outrageous.

I guarantee you that the first 10, 100, 1000, even 10,000 humans on this earth had to "believe" that Gold or Silver had some sort of value to begin using it as a form of money, as a barter system.

It started with the first 10. Then spread over time to the rest of the world.

Purely. On. 100%. Belief. And. That. Is. All.

Prove me wrong.

[savetherainforest]

This should cheer you all up, some quality Game Theory Analysis of Bitcoin Cash.

https://medium.com/@rextar4444/the-myth-of-bitcoin-cash-understanding-game-theory-f87858bf8791


TLDR: There is no economic viability to bitcoin cash. There is no founded argument for its valuation. The exchanges and companies that support it are insecure and nefarious.

and a coin with 1mb blocks forever has economic viability?

Things need to evolve with real life technology. Not with forced manipulation of the system. Because you need to respect the rules of Nature and its nature of self regulating!

If higher fees are needed, I'm good with that! It will encourage the smaller node people to invest more in hardware and spread as a business model. Also it will evolve naturally to bigger blocks as the price rises too much and the use of the coin is too extensive!  (edit: because they don't want people to migrate to other coins )

[traincarswreck]

 It's either fungible or it's not, and it's not actually possible for cryptocurrency to be fungible.

It matters not that its not fungible.  It's clearly functioning today as a currency and a money by the accepted definitions of the words. The rest of your sentences were just attacks and fluff with no real meaning.  I think you are stuck in fight mode because bitcoin threatens your model of how things work. How can you see it as a rational use of your time to argue on a forum versus a project you don't agree has value? 

You are inconsistent with your own being wasting time by your own definition and views.

[r0ach]

When you talk about bitcoin and use words like "belief system" it's outrageous.

I guarantee you that the first 10, 100, 1000, even 10,000 humans on this earth had to "believe" that Gold or Silver had some sort of value to begin using it as a form of money, as a barter system.

It started with the first 10.

Purely. On. 100%. Belief. And. That. Is. All.

Buttalik Butterin might be an IPO scammer, but he's not a stupid IPO scammer.  There's a reason he said when he first heard of bitcoin he didn't think it would have any value and is still skeptical of the long term viability of any of them.  The fact that he's selling you tokens he thinks might be worthless is a whole other story.  

Anyway, if you look around, you will notice the people who know the most about bitcoin are the most skeptical and wouldn't be surprised if it died, while it's generally people who don't know anything about economics or what a UTXO is either that think it's guaranteed to go to $1 million each.  The exception are motivational speakers like Antonopolous who are probably getting paid by god knows who to go out and shill for bitcoin.

[traincarswreck]

while it's generally people who don't know anything about economics

Sir you've twisted an conflated definitions of currency and money and you've touted gold as superior to bitcoin when this is observably untrue as we can see with the charts.  You've demonstrated you not only do not understand the subject and related subjects but that you are willing to obfuscate your points and continue to argue from an irrational standpoint.  

You don't understand (macro-)economics and you've incorrectly identified me as a Keynesian further showing that you are lost.

You've also implied gold is scarce and its not.

[Torque]

...that think it's guaranteed to go to $1 million each.

I think if Bitcoin lives on another 10-15 years it'll definitely go to $1M/each. Because of hyperinflation of the dollar, lol.

[traincarswreck]

I think if Bitcoin lives on another 10-15 years it'll definitely go to $1M/each. Because of hyperinflation of the dollar, lol.

You also don't understand economics.  Central banks allows banks to tend to the quality of their money:

Also, a substantial decrease in the use of dollars would also tend to reduce the size of the Fed’s balance sheet and introduce another factor into its consideration of how to affect short-term interest rates (the instrument for implementing monetary policy).

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43339.pdf

hyperbitcoinization or that bitcoin will usurp central banking is silly and born from ignorance (the whole nakamoto institute site suffers from this).

Banks can increase the quality of their money and will do so in relation to bitcoin now that they are forced to compete with it on the markets.  As I said, bitcoin will cause the other fiats to shore up their instability.  This is the obvious natural result and is as described by John Nash who built the entire argument.

[r0ach]

you've touted gold as superior to bitcoin when this is observably untrue as we can see with the charts.

You can stop shilling now, Trace Mayer.  Bitcoin has not yet pump and dumped higher than the combined gold + silver monetary metals market cap, nor does it have the ability to do so.  You already admitted bitcoin is a crap store of value, so if someone believed the market cap of both metals and bitcoin had topped out, they would immediately liquidate bitcoin for metals anyway.  Once you accept this obvious conclusion as fact, it's clear that bitcoin is solely a pump and dump in nature, as are most monetary instruments or substitutes that don't make up the base of Exter's pyramid.

[traincarswreck]

 You already admitted bitcoin is a crap store of value

You have said this lie twice now.  Gold's value is tanking and bitcoin's value is increasing on the USD at a dramatic rate.  You are denying reality and your denial is so bad you are pushing your denial on others in a forum in which you clearly don't have any business on.  You aren't here looking for truth at all.  You are here to justify your own view which has you perturbed because it is in conflict with observable reality.

You are acting inconsistently with your own views. By definition, irrational.

[Torque]

I think if Bitcoin lives on another 10-15 years it'll definitely go to $1M/each. Because of hyperinflation of the dollar, lol.

You also don't understand economics.  Central banks allows banks to tend to the quality of their money:

Also, a substantial decrease in the use of dollars would also tend to reduce the size of the Fed’s balance sheet and introduce another factor into its consideration of how to affect short-term interest rates (the instrument for implementing monetary policy).

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43339.pdf

I'm not sure where you're are trying to go with this.

But the quality of my U.S. dollars has lost some purchasing power over the last 4 years, while the "quality" of the purchasing power of my Bitcoin has gained 5X.

Are you sure that you understand economics?

[r0ach]

You aren't here looking for truth at all.  

Let me guess, your net "truth" is to try and convince me India has the best schools in the world again.

[traincarswreck]

I'm not sure where you're are trying to go with this.

But the quality of my U.S. dollars has lost some purchasing power over the last 4 years, while the "quality" of the purchasing power of my Bitcoin has gained 5X.

Are you sure that you understand economics?

Yes and I quoted a research report based on your fed that explains that as bitcoin grows in relevance it will force the fed to adjust its monetary policy in relation to it.  Your conclusion doesn't acknowledge this FACT. 

 

Are you sure that you understand economics?

Dude, you CLEARLY showed you don't fucking know what you are talking about.  What is this?

[traincarswreck]

Let me guess, your net "truth" is to try and convince me India has the best schools in the world again.

My argument has many citations and links to to empirical evidence.  I use standard accepted definitions and principles.

Your argument twists the definitions of words, flies counter to accepted economic principles, and denies observable evidence to the contrary.

And now you are changing the subject to school in india.

As I said you are interested in defending your view only in order to justify your core beliefs.  That bitcoin threatened them causes you to participate on a forum that you have no intention of getting anything from or contributing to. 

You aren't interested in what is the truth, you are interested in perpetuating and justifying your misunderstanding.

[Torque]

Yes and I quoted a research report based on your fed that explains that as bitcoin grows in relevance it will force the fed to adjust its monetary policy in relation to it.  Your conclusion doesn't acknowledge this FACT.  

You are completely delusional if you think that the Fed is going to adjust their monetary policy at all to improve the "quality" of their money, much less to "compete" with Bitcoin. They don't give two shits about Bitcoin. After another worldwide financial crisis, they will slam interest rates back to zero and fire up QE4. If that doesn't stop banks imploding around the world, they will send interest rates negative and print dollars into oblivion. They will even airdrop helicopter money directly into people's bank accounts if they have to.

Dude, you CLEARLY showed you don't fucking know what you are talking about.  What is this?

See my response above.