Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[infofront]

I'm not sure where you're are trying to go with this.

But the quality of my U.S. dollars has lost some purchasing power over the last 4 years, while the "quality" of the purchasing power of my Bitcoin has gained 5X.

Are you sure that you understand economics?

Yes and I quoted a research report based on your fed that explains that as bitcoin grows in relevance it will force the fed to adjust its monetary policy in relation to it.  Your conclusion doesn't acknowledge this FACT. 

 

Are you sure that you understand economics?

Dude, you CLEARLY showed you don't fucking know what you are talking about.  What is this?

So, you're saying that it's a "fact" that the fed will cause massive USD deflation, so that it can keep up with bitcoin?

[r0ach]

What is this?

[traincarswreck]

I quoted the research study that explains exactly what I say.  You forget the fed can choose its policy.  If it starts to lose ground and the velocity of the usd increases and puts pressure on the relevance of the usd, rational self interest will cause it to shore up the difference.

This is the logical and natural response from a self interested actor.

You are completely delusional if you think that the Fed is going to adjust their monetary policy at all to improve the "quality" of their money, much less to "compete" with Bitcoin. They don't give two shits about Bitcoin. After another worldwide financial crisis, they will slam interest rates back to zero and fire up QE4. If that doesn't stop banks imploding around the world, they will send interest rates negative and print dollars into oblivion. They will even airdrop helicopter money directly into people's bank accounts if they have to.

No this is not the rational viewpoint, you are speaking of a world in which the citizens don't have an alternative option for hedging.

In the near future there may be a smaller number of major currencies used in the world and these may stand in competitive relations among themselves. There is now the “euro” and the old inflationary history of the Italian lira is past history now. And there COULD be introduced, for example, a similar international currency for the Islamic world or for South Asia, or for South America, or here or there.

So here is the possibility of “asymptotically ideal money”. Starting with the idea of value stabilization in relation to a domestic price index associated with the territory of one state, beyond that there is the natural and logical concept of internationally based value comparisons. The currencies being compared, like now the euro, the dollar, the yen, the pound, the swiss franc, the swedish kronor, etc. can be viewed with critical eyes by their users and by those who may have the option of whether or not or how to use one of them. This can lead to pressure for good quality and consequently for a lessened rate of inflationary depreciation in value.

And this parallel makes it seem not implausible that a process of political evolution might lead to the expectation on the part of citizens in the “great democracies” that they should be better situated to be able to understand whatever will be the monetary policies which, indeed, are typically of great importance to citizens who may have alternative options for where to place their “savings”.

[traincarswreck]

So, you're saying that it's a "fact" that the fed will cause massive USD deflation, so that it can keep up with bitcoin?

its not massive deflation though is it?  It's only massive if you are assuming bitcoin will go to the moon, but in relation to the USD this is silly.  And I stated it as CITED fact as I have given a link to the entire supporting research paper.  It's accepted economic philosophy and theory that such banks will adjust if forced to compete with a superior option.

[traincarswreck]

Sir are you expecting us to take your seriously? You've run out of counterpoints and logic. And resorted to obfuscation and name calling some time ago.

[bones261]

Whatever  

For me, if I want to be safe, I go for precious metals. Since the neolithic, it's held its value fairly well. A person 10,000 years ago can get about the same amount of goods and services as they can today. Yes, its value fluctuates in the short term, but in the long term, it will probably be one of the safest investments that I can possibly make. (And a little boring to be quite frank.)
If I want to go for risky, with high volatility and excitement, I go for Bitcoin/cryptocurrency. I've had almost 3 years worth of entertainment and have even seen my small "investment" increase 10 fold. This has been way more enjoyable, affordable and educational for me than my years of trying to perfect my card counting "system." Wish this was around in the 90's and early 2000s.
Enjoy life. It never has to be boring.

[metacoin]

Cryptocurrency is NOT fungible.  If anything about the protocol at all can be altered via a strongman or banana republic voting to take over it's exposed power vacuum it's not fungible.

Money = has objective, static traits

Currency = random arbitrary bullshit some guy makes up and constantly fiddles with like fiat or bitcoin. If it's possible for your money to "hard fork", or randomly morph from one thing to another, it's not fungible, and hence not money.

It doesn't matter if said forks are orchestrated by a banana republic of miners in a voting process. There is no Nash equilibrium in cryptocurrency, only a power vacuum to be filled by a top down hierarchy or strongman. To escape this master and servant hierarchy you have to use real money that cannot be altered or tampered with by third parties.

I think this argument is akin to "a government could nuke its own population to maintain control". Sure, you can rule over a barren wasteland of radioactive decay, but that kind of defeats the purpose of running a government in the first place.

The internet has become such an integral part of life that any draconian control over it would be a step backwards for the society that lives under that regime. At that point they would probably be confiscating gold as well.

[savetherainforest]

You aren't here looking for truth at all.  

Let me guess, your net "truth" is to try and convince me India has the best schools in the world again.

India intensifies!!! .. You people are just gr8!! .. I come here every day, and I sometimes find the most magnificent gems that I can laugh my ass off. You peeps have the train of thought of fairy / pixie dust hodlers!

[traincarswreck]

Whatever  

For me, if I want to be safe, I go for precious metals. Since the neolithic, it's held its value fairly well. A person 10,000 years ago can get about the same amount of goods and services as they can today. Yes, its value fluctuates in the short term, but in the long term, it will probably be one of the safest investments that I can possibly make. (And a little boring to be quite frank.)
If I want to go for risky, with high volatility and excitement, I go for Bitcoin/cryptocurrency. I've had almost 3 years worth of entertainment and have even seen my small "investment" increase 10 fold. This has been way more enjoyable, affordable and educational for me than my years of trying to perfect my card counting "system." Wish this was around in the 90's and early 2000s.
Enjoy life. It never has to be boring.

Did you look at the price of gold before you made this statement?  Its declining rapidly.  And its value 10k years from now is not relevant to you.  Your post denies observable reality.  gold is not safe, its losing value at a dramatic pace.

[bones261]

Whatever  

For me, if I want to be safe, I go for precious metals. Since the neolithic, it's held its value fairly well. A person 10,000 years ago can get about the same amount of goods and services as they can today. Yes, its value fluctuates in the short term, but in the long term, it will probably be one of the safest investments that I can possibly make. (And a little boring to be quite frank.)
If I want to go for risky, with high volatility and excitement, I go for Bitcoin/cryptocurrency. I've had almost 3 years worth of entertainment and have even seen my small "investment" increase 10 fold. This has been way more enjoyable, affordable and educational for me than my years of trying to perfect my card counting "system." Wish this was around in the 90's and early 2000s.
Enjoy life. It never has to be boring.

Did you look at the price of gold before you made this statement?  Its declining rapidly.  And its value 10k years from now is not relevant to you.  Your post denies observable reality.  gold is not safe, its losing value at a dramatic pace.

OK, let's go for something within my lifetime. In August 1971, gold was $35.00 per ounce. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $211.00 in today's dollars. Now if I compare the price of gold to what it was in May of 1980 or August 2011, then it sucks. Overall, in the long haul, it's most probably going to keep up with inflation. In fact, if you look at a 30 year chart, adjusted for inflation, it's fared quite well. http://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart

[traincarswreck]

OK, let's go for something within my lifetime. In August 1971, gold was $35.00 per ounce. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $211.00 in today's dollars. Now if I compare the price of gold to what it was in May of 1980, then it sucks. Overall, in the long haul, it's most probably going to keep up with inflation.

Not necessarily so at all. You've basically said it worked like this in the past and so it will work like this going forward.  But of course we didn't have bitcoin.  But more importantly you probably don't know that the relationship is really about the cost of production which effectively related to its deepness.

As we grow our technology gold won't necessarily be scarce and this will happen in our lifetimes.  This is why szabos article about mining the vast deep were written and relevant (as well as comet mining).

There is nothing to suggest gold will continue to be a superior or safe store of wealth.

[podyx]

Bitstamp going full retard?

[bones261]

OK, let's go for something within my lifetime. In August 1971, gold was $35.00 per ounce. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $211.00 in today's dollars. Now if I compare the price of gold to what it was in May of 1980, then it sucks. Overall, in the long haul, it's most probably going to keep up with inflation.

Not necessarily so at all. You've basically said it worked like this in the past and so it will work like this going forward.  But of course we didn't have bitcoin.  But more importantly you probably don't know that the relationship is really about the cost of production which effectively related to its deepness.

As we grow our technology gold won't necessarily be scarce and this will happen in our lifetimes.  This is why szabos article about mining the vast deep were written and relevant (as well as comet mining).

There is nothing to suggest gold will continue to be a superior or safe store of wealth.

Since when does scarcity make something good money or a store of wealth?  

Furthermore, with PMs I have thousands of years of data to rely upon, whereas with Bitcoin, I only have a small sample of 8 years to rely upon. Which statistical sample do you think is more sound? Sure, it's quite possible that Bitcoin may be the next wave of innovation in money, just like fiat was 500 years ago. It could also be the next AOL or MySpace. At 49, I am certainly not going to invest my whole life savings in this. Especially in this realm where I can lose a substantial amount by just transferring some BTC to the wrong exchange at the wrong time (ie BTC-e, Cryptsy, MT Gox, Bitfinex etc etc etc etc etc)  or someone, somehow managing to breach my security and steal my bitcoins. (a 5.00 wrench should be enough for that.)

[ivomm]

Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  

[Searing]

Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  

Ouch...that hit me so low the 'family jewels hurt' ... wince!

low blow, low blow

You nailed it. (Damn than analogy also was not apt) (ouch!)

(the truth it always hurts!)

[r0ach]

Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  

As if Jihan Wu is the only dumper in town o_O

[traincarswreck]

Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  

As if Jihan Wu is the only dumper in town o_O

Much of your points are no sound economic philosophy.  You've made your own definitions and created an argument that supports your own view but is contradicted by observable reality. You actually don't know anything about the subjects you are commenting on. 

ACTUALLY.

[traincarswreck]

Bah, I feel like the word actually isn't getting across...

What I mean to say is IRL, irl conflicts with your beliefs.  You are wrong and observably so.

[traincarswreck]

Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  

As if Jihan Wu is the only dumper in town o_O

Do you have any more memes to post that can derail from your attempts to justify your misunderstanding?

[r0ach]

Jihan Wu dumped 3K bitcoin on bitfiniex in 5 mins. Only 1% damage. He will see what a real dump is on his BCC on 1 Aug  

As if Jihan Wu is the only dumper in town o_O

Much of your points are no sound economic philosophy.  You've made your own definitions and created an argument that supports your own view but is contradicted by observable reality. You actually don't know anything about the subjects you are commenting on.  

Hey man, I'm not the one posting on an alt-troll acct from being scared.  If what I said about bitcoin and metals fundamentals wasn't true, someone would actually be able to put up some type of argument against it but nobody can. Instead, I got Sidhujag the guy from India, the world capital of gold, trying to troll the forum saying metals are a barbarous relic LOL.  They sell cooked rats on the side of the road in south east asia, don't give me this barbarous relic shit!