Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[pfrtlpfmpf]

It all really confuses the heck out of me. But can you imagine, one guy asks another: Hey dude, got some bitcoincash. Dude answers, well no bitcoincash left, but bitcoincash is what we need, right. Bitcoincash.

Please don´t let me say "bitcoincash" for the rest of my life. I was happy with the name "bitcoin" 

[r0ach]

It all really confuses the heck out of me.

What is there to be confused about?

Bitcoin - a peer to peer distributed but not decentralized corporation coin.

We aren't gonna defeat the Yids with this shit.  #InPhysicalSilverWeTrust

[savetherainforest]

When exactly is the chain split? Do I need to transfer coins today or can I do tomorrow?

Are you a troll??

And yes dumbass.. you need to take what is yours out of the exchange. Because I'm not sure what exchange you are on and what politics they will have about giving you back the other coin, BCC I think its called, in case you want to profit from both. So yes, take them out, then you wait to see how you split them. But basically my understanding is the account that has any kind of bitcoins in it after the chain split will have the BCC as well, so after that period if you move any BTC and the balance show you 0,0000 and you moved lets say 5,25525000 out of it. Then those 0,000.. have a hidden chain in them that the software doesn't recognize. So basically with the same address you use to move those 'invisible' BCC's after you move the BTC.  (edit: when the software for BCC will be available!(this ofc if you are clueless without an interface))

[pfrtlpfmpf]

It all really confuses the heck out of me.

What is there to be confused about?

Bitcoin - a peer to peer distributed but not decentralized corporation coin.

We aren't gonna defeat the Yids with this shit.

Aah, i found the "ignore" button. It´s so peaceful here, once you do that. Try it ! Ignorance is bliss.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

It all really confuses the heck out of me.

What is there to be confused about?

Bitcoin - a peer to peer distributed but not decentralized corporation coin.

We aren't gonna defeat the Yids with this shit.  #InPhysicalSilverWeTrust

Talk to the hand . . .

[r0ach]

It all really confuses the heck out of me.

What is there to be confused about?

Bitcoin - a peer to peer distributed but not decentralized corporation coin.

We aren't gonna defeat the Yids with this shit.  #InPhysicalSilverWeTrust

Talk to the hand . . .

[traincarswreck]

The Myth of Bitcoin Cash 2: Re-solving Nashian and Szabonian Views on the Emergence of Money Through Trade
https://medium.com/@rextar4444/the-myth-of-bitcoin-cash-2-re-solving-nashian-and-szabonian-views-on-the-emergence-of-money-b3c83a5d019f

Rational players won't diversify.

Szabo: "If the outcome is significantly predictable, it pays to invest completely in the most likely winner"

http://unenumerated.blogspot.ca/2008/03/logical-emergence-of-money-from-barter.html

[JayJuanGee]

I now have several BTC loaned on Poloniex at between 4 and 4.9999% daily rate.

5% being the max allowed.

Feeling a bit Jewish right now...

You don't need to be Jewish to take advantage of a situation and profit.  I withdrew all of my BTC from Polo a couple of weeks ago, due to concerns being raised daily about their support/withdrawal issues and the recommendations of several trusted sources to move your coins to your control by August 1, just in case things go wrong. Also, I can now use my coins to claim free Byteball and BCC.
Just know, that POLO's policy will be to give free BCC to the person who took the loan and not the lender. May be why some people are willing to pay such outrageous rates to go long on bullshit. Guess they may think they have a hedge, now.

Are you sure that you got that correct?

If a loan is made before August 1, and bitcoin forks during the loan, then if Poloniex recognizes both chains, then would both chains be recognized as still being part of the pre-august 1 loan?  seems strange?

Same would be true on Bitfinex, and I did not think about the situation as being only one side of the loan.. so could be confusing, and maybe that is why Bitfinex rates are merely .4% per day, right now as compared with Poloniex rates? about a 10x difference in interest rates, no?

Yes, Bitfinex policy is to give the split coins to the lender. Poloniex policy is to give the split coins to the borrower.

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/212/review
https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.07.24-Our-plans-to-handle-potential-BTC-network-disruptions/

Yeah.  I had read that Bitfinex statement about lenders.   Maybe it is just me, but I remain a bit unclear regarding how bitfinex treats borrowers of BTC?  They are paying back only BTC, and the lenders get the BCH from the transaction? That seems a bit strange;  however, maybe it is possible that Bitfinex considers that borrowers are more in control of their loans (as compared with lenders) because borrowers can chose to close the position; however, lenders cannot close a position, once it is taken - although they can choose to discontinue offering loans or cancel the loans before someone takes the loan... so yeah, lenders are locked in and borrowers are not..

So, if bitfinex is going to treat the matter of only crediting the lender, then borrowers should have a decent sized incentive to close all of their loans before the hardfork or otherwise they will likely lose any value that any BCC might have, if any.. hahahaha

My more layman's consideration of the matter, it seems to me that it would be most fair (even though a bit more complicated to calculate) to cause splitting (and credit) of BTC/BCH on both sides of the loan - whether we are talking about bitfinex or poloniex - however, the poloniex matter of crediting only the borrower seems to be worse situation and causing extremely disproportionate interest rates for borrowing BTC on their platform.

[Torque]

Why can't tomorrow be Aug. 1st so we can get past all this "Coin split! BCC! Aug. 1st! OMG!! AGHHH!" sky is falling FUD garbage.

Ugh.... one more fkn day... can't wait for it to be over so we can move on.

<sigh>

[JayJuanGee]

Strong recommendation to Roger Ver to work on his high level of aggressiveness. LOL

https://youtu.be/1KFCc8xBD6Q

It is a bit difficult to learn very much from this interview between Roger and Miss Bitcoin Japan, because they mostly speak in conclusions. It does seem that she has become very skeptical of roger and his motives, even though she has known him for 5 years - but surely she has difficulties expressing herself in English, but also she seem to be somewhat lacking in some understanding of various nuanced arguments in order to really present them to Roger -

I did notice one outline of a plan regarding bitcoin cash... and it seems that if they fork, they are wanting to use the fork as some kind of leverage to attempt to force bitcoin to hardfok scale up to 2mb in November - or otherwise to ramp up the competition at that point by directing all mining power to Bitcoin cash and attempt to get various other economic nodes to follow them in order to attempt to increase bitcoin cash liquidity and utility at that time in order to attempt to become a viable bitcoin competitor - also suggesting that there is going to be an ongoing incentive to continue to mine bitcoin cash throughout this time because if the difficulty level of bitcoin cash is lower, then it may well be equally profitable to mine some bitcoin cash (assuming that bitcoin cash is able to retain some market value with the passage of time)

In my view 2mb would be borderline acceptable. But if it would be more, people would just move to another coin that would be more similar to the old version of what they had.  (I know I would)

I am not sure about what you are talking about.  Even though Roger seems to becoming increasingly more passionate and increasingly more insane about this whole issue, even the girl seems to have difficulties figuring out how to keep him calm.  You know sometimes folks with bad English (maybe asians especially) will say things that inflame the person rather than being more subtle about it.  So the girl says something to the effect to roger.. "why don't you try to keep your emotions down a bit?"  And, she is nervous about saying it, and Roger cannot help but to specifically respond in an emotional way to her way of saying it - and I am sure Roger is getting a lot of that "calm down" suggestions, but it just makes him more emotional and defensive.

So this whole 2mb bullshit continues to be batted around as if it is some kind of meaningful and necessary direction - as if it is going to satisfy the bigblocker nutjobs, like roger.  He continues to act as if he has some kind of knowledgeable technical understanding that 2mb would resolve matters, and everyone opposed to 2mb is just buying into small blocker propaganda and does not understand technicalities. 

The fact of the matter, with bitcoin, is that we have to cross one bridge at a time, and the first bridge is getting segwit locked in and then activated and then seeing how that plays out, and the other fact of the matter is that once it seems quite likely that once segwit is employed then there becomes even less likelihood that any kind of blocksize increase is going to be necessary.. so the argument about a necessity to increase the blockchain becomes weaker and weaker and weaker and that is why they are planning to hardfork now rather than later.. and to take advantage of confusion and hypothetical and likely at some point going to resume spam attacks on the bitcoin blockchain, and I am not sure if segwit is going to help to battle spam attacks ( I hope so)...

[JayJuanGee]

Strong recommendation to Roger Ver to work on his high level of aggressiveness. LOL

https://youtu.be/1KFCc8xBD6Q

It is a bit difficult to learn very much from this interview between Roger and Miss Bitcoin Japan, because they mostly speak in conclusions. It does seem that she has become very skeptical of roger and his motives, even though she has known him for 5 years - but surely she has difficulties expressing herself in English, but also she seem to be somewhat lacking in some understanding of various nuanced arguments in order to really present them to Roger -

I did notice one outline of a plan regarding bitcoin cash... and it seems that if they fork, they are wanting to use the fork as some kind of leverage to attempt to force bitcoin to hardfok scale up to 2mb in November - or otherwise to ramp up the competition at that point by directing all mining power to Bitcoin cash and attempt to get various other economic nodes to follow them in order to attempt to increase bitcoin cash liquidity and utility at that time in order to attempt to become a viable bitcoin competitor - also suggesting that there is going to be an ongoing incentive to continue to mine bitcoin cash throughout this time because if the difficulty level of bitcoin cash is lower, then it may well be equally profitable to mine some bitcoin cash (assuming that bitcoin cash is able to retain some market value with the passage of time)

Well BCC definitely has succeeded in generating a buzz. The r/btc reddit thread might as well change its name to BCC and the altcoin thread in this forum is showing brisk interest. They also are having some effects on the Bitcoin economy. One negative consequence is the mass exodus of coins from Coinbase. They are now facing 12+ hours of delay with withdrawals and are stating their decision of ignoring BCC is a key contributor to the backlog.

Yeah.  At first I thought that the Coinbase decision was the right one, but later, I see that other exchanges came out with better policies, such as Bitfinex.  So, yeah, it is too bad that there is some of this additional instability. 

Seems to me that it would be better if Coinbase would reverse its position in some significant way that at least allows for some possible future splitting.  I understand that Gemini's position is not much better than Coinbase, but they did leave their position a bit more open to the possibility of future splitting, if the bitcoin cash chain has value in the future.. So, yeah, ongoing turmoil based on inconsistent treatments of the matter.  and then likely going to be additional volatility caused by some of the changes in the amount of coins that remain on various exchanges.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

I now have several BTC loaned on Poloniex at between 4 and 4.9999% daily rate.

5% being the max allowed.

Feeling a bit Jewish right now...

You don't need to be Jewish to take advantage of a situation and profit.  I withdrew all of my BTC from Polo a couple of weeks ago, due to concerns being raised daily about their support/withdrawal issues and the recommendations of several trusted sources to move your coins to your control by August 1, just in case things go wrong. Also, I can now use my coins to claim free Byteball and BCC.
Just know, that POLO's policy will be to give free BCC to the person who took the loan and not the lender. May be why some people are willing to pay such outrageous rates to go long on bullshit. Guess they may think they have a hedge, now.

Are you sure that you got that correct?

If a loan is made before August 1, and bitcoin forks during the loan, then if Poloniex recognizes both chains, then would both chains be recognized as still being part of the pre-august 1 loan?  seems strange?

Same would be true on Bitfinex, and I did not think about the situation as being only one side of the loan.. so could be confusing, and maybe that is why Bitfinex rates are merely .4% per day, right now as compared with Poloniex rates? about a 10x difference in interest rates, no?

Yes, Bitfinex policy is to give the split coins to the lender. Poloniex policy is to give the split coins to the borrower.

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/212/review
https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.07.24-Our-plans-to-handle-potential-BTC-network-disruptions/

Yeah.  I had read that Bitfinex statement about lenders.   Maybe it is just me, but I remain a bit unclear regarding how bitfinex treats borrowers of BTC?  They are paying back only BTC, and the lenders get the BCH from the transaction? That seems a bit strange;  however, maybe it is possible that Bitfinex considers that borrowers are more in control of their loans (as compared with lenders) because borrowers can chose to close the position; however, lenders cannot close a position, once it is taken - although they can choose to discontinue offering loans or cancel the loans before someone takes the loan... so yeah, lenders are locked in and borrowers are not..

So, if bitfinex is going to treat the matter of only crediting the lender, then borrowers should have a decent sized incentive to close all of their loans before the hardfork or otherwise they will likely lose any value that any BCC might have, if any.. hahahaha

My more layman's consideration of the matter, it seems to me that it would be most fair (even though a bit more complicated to calculate) to cause splitting (and credit) of BTC/BCH on both sides of the loan - whether we are talking about bitfinex or poloniex - however, the poloniex matter of crediting only the borrower seems to be worse situation and causing extremely disproportionate interest rates for borrowing BTC on their platform.

He (the borrower) has your money, with all risks involved, he should get BCC, BCH.
Hurts me, but this is the way it should be . . .

[jojo69]

wow, I only now got around to watching that

Bitcoin Jesus has lost it

[Elwar]

Why can't tomorrow be Aug. 1st so we can get past all this "Coin split! BCC! Aug. 1st! OMG!! AGHHH!" sky is falling FUD garbage.

Ugh.... one more fkn day... can't wait for it to be over so we can move on.

<sigh>

This is just a well promoted alt coin.

[Elwar]

I did have a theory on something that could push the price up a lot over time.

There was something like 600k bitcoins stolen from MtGox which apparently was flowing through btc-e being sold off over the years. btc-e has always had a lower price which may have kept the price low over the years. Now that the admins are on the run and they do not have btc-e to sell their coins they have stopped that flow of large amounts of bitcoins onto the market. Without this downward pressure, who knows how high the price will go.

[traincarswreck]

I did have a theory on something that could push the price up a lot over time.

There was something like 600k bitcoins stolen from MtGox which apparently was flowing through btc-e being sold off over the years. btc-e has always had a lower price which may have kept the price low over the years. Now that the admins are on the run and they do not have btc-e to sell their coins they have stopped that flow of large amounts of bitcoins onto the market. Without this downward pressure, who knows how high the price will go.

I have a funner theory, karples and ver used btc-e to launder their stolen gox coins and now the feds are bargaining with the btc e guy for a glimmer of freedom in order to make a case versus ver.  Ver is visibly disturbed because he's slowly realizing his attempts to fork to keep the transactions low so he can wash his coins is not going to work and hes even more slowly realizing that hes getting a knock on his door soon because the prisoners dilemma is too complex to prevent individual defection.

That everyone needs to move their coins is bringing awareness to his transactions.  

the feds just audited coinbase and froze more stolen gox coins but no one will hear of this because operations have no resumed a normal.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

I did have a theory on something that could push the price up a lot over time.

There was something like 600k bitcoins stolen from MtGox which apparently was flowing through btc-e being sold off over the years. btc-e has always had a lower price which may have kept the price low over the years. Now that the admins are on the run and they do not have btc-e to sell their coins they have stopped that flow of large amounts of bitcoins onto the market. Without this downward pressure, who knows how high the price will go.

Good theory, but how big was btc-e, apparently we shrug off btc-e quite easily.

[gentlemand]

I did have a theory on something that could push the price up a lot over time.

There was something like 600k bitcoins stolen from MtGox which apparently was flowing through btc-e being sold off over the years. btc-e has always had a lower price which may have kept the price low over the years. Now that the admins are on the run and they do not have btc-e to sell their coins they have stopped that flow of large amounts of bitcoins onto the market. Without this downward pressure, who knows how high the price will go.

Good theory, but how big was btc-e, apparently we shrug off btc-e quite easily.

BTC-e laundered the coins first and then they were free to be sold elsewhere.

As an actual market maker it's never been all that. Once you have a pile of clean coins they can be fed into wherever else.

[r0ach]

Szabo

If he was a credible person before, he's not anymore after working on an R3 banker backed IPO scamcoin called Ethereum so you can stop pretending he's god now.  You're from India where people worship authority figures and the state, so it's kind of obvious how your behavior is playing out where you constantly feel the need to cite some authority figure as the word of god without being able to put 2+2 together yourself.

[novhitadaloma]

My analysis of bitcoin prices after 1 August will be weakened due to money laundering cases conducted by Btce admin. But of course this will happen interesting pull because japan and china are buying bitcoin. That's why now bitcoin is still stable at $2700.