Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[savetherainforest]

Strong recommendation to Roger Ver to work on his high level of aggressiveness. LOL

https://youtu.be/1KFCc8xBD6Q

It is a bit difficult to learn very much from this interview between Roger and Miss Bitcoin Japan, because they mostly speak in conclusions. It does seem that she has become very skeptical of roger and his motives, even though she has known him for 5 years - but surely she has difficulties expressing herself in English, but also she seem to be somewhat lacking in some understanding of various nuanced arguments in order to really present them to Roger -

I did notice one outline of a plan regarding bitcoin cash... and it seems that if they fork, they are wanting to use the fork as some kind of leverage to attempt to force bitcoin to hardfok scale up to 2mb in November - or otherwise to ramp up the competition at that point by directing all mining power to Bitcoin cash and attempt to get various other economic nodes to follow them in order to attempt to increase bitcoin cash liquidity and utility at that time in order to attempt to become a viable bitcoin competitor - also suggesting that there is going to be an ongoing incentive to continue to mine bitcoin cash throughout this time because if the difficulty level of bitcoin cash is lower, then it may well be equally profitable to mine some bitcoin cash (assuming that bitcoin cash is able to retain some market value with the passage of time)

In my view 2mb would be borderline acceptable. But if it would be more, people would just move to another coin that would be more similar to the old version of what they had.  (I know I would)

[1715168573]

1715168573

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Blatantly silly statements

You have said that by citing my argument I do not understand it.  I think you don't understand what it means to present a proper argument.  Then you continue to assert your authority "exter's pyramid".  Your writing is long winded and full of obfuscation and bad assumptions. But I don't need to peel the layers away.  You have argued bitcoin cannot be what we are watching it be, a money and a currency.  You have suggested "metals" can only take the bottom role of the pyramid, as we watch golds price and relevance decline.

What other metals are you referring to?

Golds supply is not throttled and limited like you are assuming.  That is why it is losing its monetary relevance. 

Reality disagrees with your belief system.

And you can't send metals around the world like you can with bitcoin

You are making blatantly silly statements:

More blatantly silly statements

Indeed.

[bones261]

Strong recommendation to Roger Ver to work on his high level of aggressiveness. LOL

https://youtu.be/1KFCc8xBD6Q

It is a bit difficult to learn very much from this interview between Roger and Miss Bitcoin Japan, because they mostly speak in conclusions. It does seem that she has become very skeptical of roger and his motives, even though she has known him for 5 years - but surely she has difficulties expressing herself in English, but also she seem to be somewhat lacking in some understanding of various nuanced arguments in order to really present them to Roger -

I did notice one outline of a plan regarding bitcoin cash... and it seems that if they fork, they are wanting to use the fork as some kind of leverage to attempt to force bitcoin to hardfok scale up to 2mb in November - or otherwise to ramp up the competition at that point by directing all mining power to Bitcoin cash and attempt to get various other economic nodes to follow them in order to attempt to increase bitcoin cash liquidity and utility at that time in order to attempt to become a viable bitcoin competitor - also suggesting that there is going to be an ongoing incentive to continue to mine bitcoin cash throughout this time because if the difficulty level of bitcoin cash is lower, then it may well be equally profitable to mine some bitcoin cash (assuming that bitcoin cash is able to retain some market value with the passage of time)

Well BCC definitely has succeeded in generating a buzz. The r/btc reddit thread might as well change its name to BCC and the altcoin thread in this forum is showing brisk interest. They also are having some effects on the Bitcoin economy. One negative consequence is the mass exodus of coins from Coinbase. They are now facing 12+ hours of delay with withdrawals and are stating their decision of ignoring BCC is a key contributor to the backlog.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

When exactly is the chain split? Do I need to transfer coins today or can I do tomorrow?

BCC chain split is 08/01/2017 at 12:20 PM UTC.

Where from did you get that timeline ?

[bones261]

When exactly is the chain split? Do I need to transfer coins today or can I do tomorrow?

BCC chain split is 08/01/2017 at 12:20 PM UTC.

Where from did you get that timeline ?

https://www.bitcoincash.org/

The first block must be more than 1k in size though, plus I'm not quite certain how soon the difficulty might lower. So it may take a while to get the first block after that time.

[El duderino_]

Will there be A fork at all......... 

[El duderino_]

Bet CLOSED! Let the game begins...
Thank you all for supporting this game and I wish you all good luck. Let's make contact when ATH touched.
Final list:
20/07 Siggy   
21/07 Mr Frog
22/07 Protokol
23/07 Bitcoinaire
24/07 Lost_in_base
25/07 rjclarke2000
26/07 Globbo 
27/07 Poolminor
28/07 TeeBone
29/07 Ted E. Bear
30/07 bahty.
31/07 Infofront
01/08 Vin
02/08 Steelboy
03/08 D_eddie
04/08 Bitserve
05/08 Bikerleszno
06/08 Last of the v8s
07/08 Pajulapoiss
08/08 Imbatman
09/08 Mikenz
10/08 Machasm
11/08 Aesma
12/08 doc12
13/08 Fluidjax
14/08 ShroomsKit_Disgrace
15/08 Fragout ---- slow death
16/08 Orpington
17/08 sirazimuth
18/08 Ivomm
19/08 Elwar
20/08 Oblox
21/08 Haciendo
22/08 Boba
23/08 ErisDiscordia
24/08 Ludwig Von
25/08 Hazukison
26/08 SportbetMaster
27/08 Nanobtc
28/08 Vamos1
29/08 Paashaas
30/08 RayX12
31/08 BinaryReign
02/09 Patrisorvieto
05/09 Entons
06/09 Oinas
09/09 Edgar
11/09 Buwaytress
15/09 MinermanNC
17/09 Spaceman_spiff
21/09 undeadbitcoiner
01/10 K.Ehleyr
02/10 Petemoss2
04/10 Herman Hesse
13/10 Cryptoqueen
05/11 Chainsaw
21/11 Icygreen
12/12 Kurious
23/12 Fractaluniverse
14/01/2018 In the silence
05/02/2018 savetherainforest

[Meuh6879]

[pfrtlpfmpf]

It all really confuses the heck out of me. But can you imagine, one guy asks another: Hey dude, got some bitcoincash. Dude answers, well no bitcoincash left, but bitcoincash is what we need, right. Bitcoincash.

Please don´t let me say "bitcoincash" for the rest of my life. I was happy with the name "bitcoin" 

[r0ach]

It all really confuses the heck out of me.

What is there to be confused about?

Bitcoin - a peer to peer distributed but not decentralized corporation coin.

We aren't gonna defeat the Yids with this shit.  #InPhysicalSilverWeTrust

[savetherainforest]

When exactly is the chain split? Do I need to transfer coins today or can I do tomorrow?

Are you a troll??

And yes dumbass.. you need to take what is yours out of the exchange. Because I'm not sure what exchange you are on and what politics they will have about giving you back the other coin, BCC I think its called, in case you want to profit from both. So yes, take them out, then you wait to see how you split them. But basically my understanding is the account that has any kind of bitcoins in it after the chain split will have the BCC as well, so after that period if you move any BTC and the balance show you 0,0000 and you moved lets say 5,25525000 out of it. Then those 0,000.. have a hidden chain in them that the software doesn't recognize. So basically with the same address you use to move those 'invisible' BCC's after you move the BTC.  (edit: when the software for BCC will be available!(this ofc if you are clueless without an interface))

[pfrtlpfmpf]

It all really confuses the heck out of me.

What is there to be confused about?

Bitcoin - a peer to peer distributed but not decentralized corporation coin.

We aren't gonna defeat the Yids with this shit.

Aah, i found the "ignore" button. It´s so peaceful here, once you do that. Try it ! Ignorance is bliss.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

It all really confuses the heck out of me.

What is there to be confused about?

Bitcoin - a peer to peer distributed but not decentralized corporation coin.

We aren't gonna defeat the Yids with this shit.  #InPhysicalSilverWeTrust

Talk to the hand . . .

[r0ach]

It all really confuses the heck out of me.

What is there to be confused about?

Bitcoin - a peer to peer distributed but not decentralized corporation coin.

We aren't gonna defeat the Yids with this shit.  #InPhysicalSilverWeTrust

Talk to the hand . . .

[traincarswreck]

The Myth of Bitcoin Cash 2: Re-solving Nashian and Szabonian Views on the Emergence of Money Through Trade
https://medium.com/@rextar4444/the-myth-of-bitcoin-cash-2-re-solving-nashian-and-szabonian-views-on-the-emergence-of-money-b3c83a5d019f

Rational players won't diversify.

Szabo: "If the outcome is significantly predictable, it pays to invest completely in the most likely winner"

http://unenumerated.blogspot.ca/2008/03/logical-emergence-of-money-from-barter.html

[JayJuanGee]

I now have several BTC loaned on Poloniex at between 4 and 4.9999% daily rate.

5% being the max allowed.

Feeling a bit Jewish right now...

You don't need to be Jewish to take advantage of a situation and profit.  I withdrew all of my BTC from Polo a couple of weeks ago, due to concerns being raised daily about their support/withdrawal issues and the recommendations of several trusted sources to move your coins to your control by August 1, just in case things go wrong. Also, I can now use my coins to claim free Byteball and BCC.
Just know, that POLO's policy will be to give free BCC to the person who took the loan and not the lender. May be why some people are willing to pay such outrageous rates to go long on bullshit. Guess they may think they have a hedge, now.

Are you sure that you got that correct?

If a loan is made before August 1, and bitcoin forks during the loan, then if Poloniex recognizes both chains, then would both chains be recognized as still being part of the pre-august 1 loan?  seems strange?

Same would be true on Bitfinex, and I did not think about the situation as being only one side of the loan.. so could be confusing, and maybe that is why Bitfinex rates are merely .4% per day, right now as compared with Poloniex rates? about a 10x difference in interest rates, no?

Yes, Bitfinex policy is to give the split coins to the lender. Poloniex policy is to give the split coins to the borrower.

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/212/review
https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.07.24-Our-plans-to-handle-potential-BTC-network-disruptions/

Yeah.  I had read that Bitfinex statement about lenders.   Maybe it is just me, but I remain a bit unclear regarding how bitfinex treats borrowers of BTC?  They are paying back only BTC, and the lenders get the BCH from the transaction? That seems a bit strange;  however, maybe it is possible that Bitfinex considers that borrowers are more in control of their loans (as compared with lenders) because borrowers can chose to close the position; however, lenders cannot close a position, once it is taken - although they can choose to discontinue offering loans or cancel the loans before someone takes the loan... so yeah, lenders are locked in and borrowers are not..

So, if bitfinex is going to treat the matter of only crediting the lender, then borrowers should have a decent sized incentive to close all of their loans before the hardfork or otherwise they will likely lose any value that any BCC might have, if any.. hahahaha

My more layman's consideration of the matter, it seems to me that it would be most fair (even though a bit more complicated to calculate) to cause splitting (and credit) of BTC/BCH on both sides of the loan - whether we are talking about bitfinex or poloniex - however, the poloniex matter of crediting only the borrower seems to be worse situation and causing extremely disproportionate interest rates for borrowing BTC on their platform.

[Torque]

Why can't tomorrow be Aug. 1st so we can get past all this "Coin split! BCC! Aug. 1st! OMG!! AGHHH!" sky is falling FUD garbage.

Ugh.... one more fkn day... can't wait for it to be over so we can move on.

<sigh>

[JayJuanGee]

Strong recommendation to Roger Ver to work on his high level of aggressiveness. LOL

https://youtu.be/1KFCc8xBD6Q

It is a bit difficult to learn very much from this interview between Roger and Miss Bitcoin Japan, because they mostly speak in conclusions. It does seem that she has become very skeptical of roger and his motives, even though she has known him for 5 years - but surely she has difficulties expressing herself in English, but also she seem to be somewhat lacking in some understanding of various nuanced arguments in order to really present them to Roger -

I did notice one outline of a plan regarding bitcoin cash... and it seems that if they fork, they are wanting to use the fork as some kind of leverage to attempt to force bitcoin to hardfok scale up to 2mb in November - or otherwise to ramp up the competition at that point by directing all mining power to Bitcoin cash and attempt to get various other economic nodes to follow them in order to attempt to increase bitcoin cash liquidity and utility at that time in order to attempt to become a viable bitcoin competitor - also suggesting that there is going to be an ongoing incentive to continue to mine bitcoin cash throughout this time because if the difficulty level of bitcoin cash is lower, then it may well be equally profitable to mine some bitcoin cash (assuming that bitcoin cash is able to retain some market value with the passage of time)

In my view 2mb would be borderline acceptable. But if it would be more, people would just move to another coin that would be more similar to the old version of what they had.  (I know I would)

I am not sure about what you are talking about.  Even though Roger seems to becoming increasingly more passionate and increasingly more insane about this whole issue, even the girl seems to have difficulties figuring out how to keep him calm.  You know sometimes folks with bad English (maybe asians especially) will say things that inflame the person rather than being more subtle about it.  So the girl says something to the effect to roger.. "why don't you try to keep your emotions down a bit?"  And, she is nervous about saying it, and Roger cannot help but to specifically respond in an emotional way to her way of saying it - and I am sure Roger is getting a lot of that "calm down" suggestions, but it just makes him more emotional and defensive.

So this whole 2mb bullshit continues to be batted around as if it is some kind of meaningful and necessary direction - as if it is going to satisfy the bigblocker nutjobs, like roger.  He continues to act as if he has some kind of knowledgeable technical understanding that 2mb would resolve matters, and everyone opposed to 2mb is just buying into small blocker propaganda and does not understand technicalities. 

The fact of the matter, with bitcoin, is that we have to cross one bridge at a time, and the first bridge is getting segwit locked in and then activated and then seeing how that plays out, and the other fact of the matter is that once it seems quite likely that once segwit is employed then there becomes even less likelihood that any kind of blocksize increase is going to be necessary.. so the argument about a necessity to increase the blockchain becomes weaker and weaker and weaker and that is why they are planning to hardfork now rather than later.. and to take advantage of confusion and hypothetical and likely at some point going to resume spam attacks on the bitcoin blockchain, and I am not sure if segwit is going to help to battle spam attacks ( I hope so)...

[JayJuanGee]

Strong recommendation to Roger Ver to work on his high level of aggressiveness. LOL

https://youtu.be/1KFCc8xBD6Q

It is a bit difficult to learn very much from this interview between Roger and Miss Bitcoin Japan, because they mostly speak in conclusions. It does seem that she has become very skeptical of roger and his motives, even though she has known him for 5 years - but surely she has difficulties expressing herself in English, but also she seem to be somewhat lacking in some understanding of various nuanced arguments in order to really present them to Roger -

I did notice one outline of a plan regarding bitcoin cash... and it seems that if they fork, they are wanting to use the fork as some kind of leverage to attempt to force bitcoin to hardfok scale up to 2mb in November - or otherwise to ramp up the competition at that point by directing all mining power to Bitcoin cash and attempt to get various other economic nodes to follow them in order to attempt to increase bitcoin cash liquidity and utility at that time in order to attempt to become a viable bitcoin competitor - also suggesting that there is going to be an ongoing incentive to continue to mine bitcoin cash throughout this time because if the difficulty level of bitcoin cash is lower, then it may well be equally profitable to mine some bitcoin cash (assuming that bitcoin cash is able to retain some market value with the passage of time)

Well BCC definitely has succeeded in generating a buzz. The r/btc reddit thread might as well change its name to BCC and the altcoin thread in this forum is showing brisk interest. They also are having some effects on the Bitcoin economy. One negative consequence is the mass exodus of coins from Coinbase. They are now facing 12+ hours of delay with withdrawals and are stating their decision of ignoring BCC is a key contributor to the backlog.

Yeah.  At first I thought that the Coinbase decision was the right one, but later, I see that other exchanges came out with better policies, such as Bitfinex.  So, yeah, it is too bad that there is some of this additional instability. 

Seems to me that it would be better if Coinbase would reverse its position in some significant way that at least allows for some possible future splitting.  I understand that Gemini's position is not much better than Coinbase, but they did leave their position a bit more open to the possibility of future splitting, if the bitcoin cash chain has value in the future.. So, yeah, ongoing turmoil based on inconsistent treatments of the matter.  and then likely going to be additional volatility caused by some of the changes in the amount of coins that remain on various exchanges.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

I now have several BTC loaned on Poloniex at between 4 and 4.9999% daily rate.

5% being the max allowed.

Feeling a bit Jewish right now...

You don't need to be Jewish to take advantage of a situation and profit.  I withdrew all of my BTC from Polo a couple of weeks ago, due to concerns being raised daily about their support/withdrawal issues and the recommendations of several trusted sources to move your coins to your control by August 1, just in case things go wrong. Also, I can now use my coins to claim free Byteball and BCC.
Just know, that POLO's policy will be to give free BCC to the person who took the loan and not the lender. May be why some people are willing to pay such outrageous rates to go long on bullshit. Guess they may think they have a hedge, now.

Are you sure that you got that correct?

If a loan is made before August 1, and bitcoin forks during the loan, then if Poloniex recognizes both chains, then would both chains be recognized as still being part of the pre-august 1 loan?  seems strange?

Same would be true on Bitfinex, and I did not think about the situation as being only one side of the loan.. so could be confusing, and maybe that is why Bitfinex rates are merely .4% per day, right now as compared with Poloniex rates? about a 10x difference in interest rates, no?

Yes, Bitfinex policy is to give the split coins to the lender. Poloniex policy is to give the split coins to the borrower.

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/212/review
https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.07.24-Our-plans-to-handle-potential-BTC-network-disruptions/

Yeah.  I had read that Bitfinex statement about lenders.   Maybe it is just me, but I remain a bit unclear regarding how bitfinex treats borrowers of BTC?  They are paying back only BTC, and the lenders get the BCH from the transaction? That seems a bit strange;  however, maybe it is possible that Bitfinex considers that borrowers are more in control of their loans (as compared with lenders) because borrowers can chose to close the position; however, lenders cannot close a position, once it is taken - although they can choose to discontinue offering loans or cancel the loans before someone takes the loan... so yeah, lenders are locked in and borrowers are not..

So, if bitfinex is going to treat the matter of only crediting the lender, then borrowers should have a decent sized incentive to close all of their loans before the hardfork or otherwise they will likely lose any value that any BCC might have, if any.. hahahaha

My more layman's consideration of the matter, it seems to me that it would be most fair (even though a bit more complicated to calculate) to cause splitting (and credit) of BTC/BCH on both sides of the loan - whether we are talking about bitfinex or poloniex - however, the poloniex matter of crediting only the borrower seems to be worse situation and causing extremely disproportionate interest rates for borrowing BTC on their platform.

He (the borrower) has your money, with all risks involved, he should get BCC, BCH.
Hurts me, but this is the way it should be . . .