Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

Can the very off topic discussions stop, and go off to some other thread? Less economic policy arguments and more Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion, for which this thread is for.

It looks like the roach mobile troll has met its crash match with the trainwreking troll?  They can both talk past each other until they are blue in the face.


 

[JayJuanGee]

ATH is being broken this month... you heard it here first boys!!!

You mean boys and girl, right?  You leaving out peeps?

[pfrtlpfmpf]

I now have several BTC loaned on Poloniex at between 4 and 4.9999% daily rate.

5% being the max allowed.

Feeling a bit Jewish right now...

You don't need to be Jewish to take advantage of a situation and profit.  I withdrew all of my BTC from Polo a couple of weeks ago, due to concerns being raised daily about their support/withdrawal issues and the recommendations of several trusted sources to move your coins to your control by August 1, just in case things go wrong. Also, I can now use my coins to claim free Byteball and BCC.
Just know, that POLO's policy will be to give free BCC to the person who took the loan and not the lender. May be why some people are willing to pay such outrageous rates to go long on bullshit. Guess they may think they have a hedge, now.

Are you sure that you got that correct?

If a loan is made before August 1, and bitcoin forks during the loan, then if Poloniex recognizes both chains, then would both chains be recognized as still being part of the pre-august 1 loan?  seems strange?

Same would be true on Bitfinex, and I did not think about the situation as being only one side of the loan.. so could be confusing, and maybe that is why Bitfinex rates are merely .4% per day, right now as compared with Poloniex rates? about a 10x difference in interest rates, no?

Yes, Bitfinex policy is to give the split coins to the lender. Poloniex policy is to give the split coins to the borrower.

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/212/review
https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.07.24-Our-plans-to-handle-potential-BTC-network-disruptions/

Yeah.  I had read that Bitfinex statement about lenders.   Maybe it is just me, but I remain a bit unclear regarding how bitfinex treats borrowers of BTC?  They are paying back only BTC, and the lenders get the BCH from the transaction? That seems a bit strange;  however, maybe it is possible that Bitfinex considers that borrowers are more in control of their loans (as compared with lenders) because borrowers can chose to close the position; however, lenders cannot close a position, once it is taken - although they can choose to discontinue offering loans or cancel the loans before someone takes the loan... so yeah, lenders are locked in and borrowers are not..

So, if bitfinex is going to treat the matter of only crediting the lender, then borrowers should have a decent sized incentive to close all of their loans before the hardfork or otherwise they will likely lose any value that any BCC might have, if any.. hahahaha

My more layman's consideration of the matter, it seems to me that it would be most fair (even though a bit more complicated to calculate) to cause splitting (and credit) of BTC/BCH on both sides of the loan - whether we are talking about bitfinex or poloniex - however, the poloniex matter of crediting only the borrower seems to be worse situation and causing extremely disproportionate interest rates for borrowing BTC on their platform.

He (the borrower) has your money, with all risks involved, he should get BCC, BCH.
Hurts me, but this is the way it should be . . .

Huh?

I don't think that there is a blanket right or wrong answer... but the most fair thing would seem to be to recognize a split on both sides of the loan - unless it is clearly announced ahead of time what are the conditions of the loan.  If one side has an ability to get out of the loan early but the other side does not, then it would not be good to trap the side that cannot get out of the loan with the adverse consequences, and I think that was why bitfinex came out with an approach that differs from Poloniex.

No, it´s clear. The one, who has the money, has the power.
"The one, who has the money, has the power" ! !
And it is announced in the terms of conditions. Sorry.

[Asrael999]

Bitfinex is in line with the banking repo market, the lender of a security retains beneficial ownership, all payments and rights that accrue to owners of securities are passed to the beneficial owner (the lender) under a market repo agreement.

[spiderbrain]

Can the very off topic discussions stop, and go off to some other thread? Less economic policy arguments and more Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion, for which this thread is for.

^^^this.

[JayJuanGee]

I now have several BTC loaned on Poloniex at between 4 and 4.9999% daily rate.

5% being the max allowed.

Feeling a bit Jewish right now...

You don't need to be Jewish to take advantage of a situation and profit.  I withdrew all of my BTC from Polo a couple of weeks ago, due to concerns being raised daily about their support/withdrawal issues and the recommendations of several trusted sources to move your coins to your control by August 1, just in case things go wrong. Also, I can now use my coins to claim free Byteball and BCC.
Just know, that POLO's policy will be to give free BCC to the person who took the loan and not the lender. May be why some people are willing to pay such outrageous rates to go long on bullshit. Guess they may think they have a hedge, now.

Are you sure that you got that correct?

If a loan is made before August 1, and bitcoin forks during the loan, then if Poloniex recognizes both chains, then would both chains be recognized as still being part of the pre-august 1 loan?  seems strange?

Same would be true on Bitfinex, and I did not think about the situation as being only one side of the loan.. so could be confusing, and maybe that is why Bitfinex rates are merely .4% per day, right now as compared with Poloniex rates? about a 10x difference in interest rates, no?

Yes, Bitfinex policy is to give the split coins to the lender. Poloniex policy is to give the split coins to the borrower.

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/212/review
https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.07.24-Our-plans-to-handle-potential-BTC-network-disruptions/

Yeah.  I had read that Bitfinex statement about lenders.   Maybe it is just me, but I remain a bit unclear regarding how bitfinex treats borrowers of BTC?  They are paying back only BTC, and the lenders get the BCH from the transaction? That seems a bit strange;  however, maybe it is possible that Bitfinex considers that borrowers are more in control of their loans (as compared with lenders) because borrowers can chose to close the position; however, lenders cannot close a position, once it is taken - although they can choose to discontinue offering loans or cancel the loans before someone takes the loan... so yeah, lenders are locked in and borrowers are not..

So, if bitfinex is going to treat the matter of only crediting the lender, then borrowers should have a decent sized incentive to close all of their loans before the hardfork or otherwise they will likely lose any value that any BCC might have, if any.. hahahaha

My more layman's consideration of the matter, it seems to me that it would be most fair (even though a bit more complicated to calculate) to cause splitting (and credit) of BTC/BCH on both sides of the loan - whether we are talking about bitfinex or poloniex - however, the poloniex matter of crediting only the borrower seems to be worse situation and causing extremely disproportionate interest rates for borrowing BTC on their platform.

He (the borrower) has your money, with all risks involved, he should get BCC, BCH.
Hurts me, but this is the way it should be . . .

Huh?

I don't think that there is a blanket right or wrong answer... but the most fair thing would seem to be to recognize a split on both sides of the loan - unless it is clearly announced ahead of time what are the conditions of the loan.  If one side has an ability to get out of the loan early but the other side does not, then it would not be good to trap the side that cannot get out of the loan with the adverse consequences, and I think that was why bitfinex came out with an approach that differs from Poloniex.

No, it´s clear. The one, who has the money, has the power.
"The one, who has the money, has the power" ! !
And it is announced in the terms of conditions. Sorry.

You can repeat until you are blue in the face, and that is not going to make you correct.  These kinds of ownership matters can be described however the fuck that you want, especially if you are an exchange owner who has the private keys. 

If you read the above links, you will see that Poloniex and Bitfinex are treating the matter differently.

So, the fact that the owner of the coins does not possess the private keys, s/he is subject to the rules of each of these exchanges, and in the case of a split during an outstanding loan, Bitfinex is giving the bitcoin cash to the lender, and Poloniex is giving the bitcoin cash to the borrower.    Those are the points that are being made in the above discussion.  Are you saying something else about what is or are you making a statement about what ought to be, but asserting such statement as if it were what is?

[jbreher]

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept

I don´t get the part of "stealing" segwit transactions. It sounds like bullshit, but Anonymint have a greater tech knowledge than me. Can some tech savvy user confirm it?

Yes. It is a well-known attribute of SegWit.

[becoin]

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept

I don´t get the part of "stealing" segwit transactions. It sounds like bullshit, but Anonymint have a greater tech knowledge than me. Can some tech savvy user confirm it?

Yes. It is a well-known attribute of SegWit.

It is a well-known stupidity of people claiming this.

[Last of the V8s]

Latest update from BTC-E...

https://twitter.com/btcecom/status/891928666065707008

....

More detailed information about what happened to the BTC-e service.

On July 25, 11:00 the FBI staff came to the data center where our server equipment was located and seized all equipment, the servers contained databases and purses of our service.

Almost for 6 days we could not get from our hosting provider the sane information, what happened to our servers because of this information we publish only now.

July 28, the domain was confiscated.

To date, part of the service facility was arrested by the FBI

The next update will include information on what options are available to restore the service, and also the procedure for obtaining funds, in the event that the service is not started. In the current situation, if the service is not started before the end of August, then from September 1 we will start the process of refund.
In the next 1-2 weeks, we will evaluate and publish information about how much money fell into the hands of the FBI and what amount of funds is available for return.

For all those who buried us, I will remind you that the service has always worked on trust and we are ready to answer for it.
The funds will be returned to everyone!



Arrest of the Russian Vinnyk Alexandra:
Officially declare - Alexander was never the head or employee of our service.

Sincerely btc-e

P.S. In the subject write questions as far as possible we will answer them.

[jbreher]

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept

I don´t get the part of "stealing" segwit transactions. It sounds like bullshit, but Anonymint have a greater tech knowledge than me. Can some tech savvy user confirm it?

Yes. It is a well-known attribute of SegWit.

It is a well-known stupidity of people claiming this.

Well, you can pretend that an 'anyone can spend' transaction is something other than an 'anyone can spend' transaction. But of course that would be tautologically impossible.

[Last of the V8s]

Szabo

If he was a credible person before, he's not anymore after working on an R3 banker backed IPO scamcoin called Ethereum so you can stop pretending he's god now.  You're from India where people worship authority figures and the state, so it's kind of obvious how your behavior is playing out where you constantly feel the need to cite some authority figure as the word of god without being able to put 2+2 together yourself.

Yes we have already established you don't understand the purpose of central banking and so you fear it.  But you will get no reasonable person to admit that Szabo is irrelevant.

mircea_popescu: !!rate szabo -10 "you'll die as you lived, in a flash of the blade, a fucktard remembered by no-one..."
http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=szabo

[Meuh6879]

Show your Weapon Money, Rally is BACK !

[spiderbrain]

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept

I don´t get the part of "stealing" segwit transactions. It sounds like bullshit, but Anonymint have a greater tech knowledge than me. Can some tech savvy user confirm it?

Yes. It is a well-known attribute of SegWit.

It is a well-known stupidity of people claiming this.

Well, you can pretend that an 'anyone can spend' transaction is something other than an 'anyone can spend' transaction. But of course that would be tautologically impossible.

Well if you knew ANYTHING you'd know that seqwit has protection against tautologies

[savetherainforest]

Everywhere I read its recommended to withdraw coins from exchanges until the dust settles sometime after Aug.1st. That would create very thin pools everywhere without the option to transfer back and prices could move any direction much easier.  The skeptic in me wonders if it might be better to put my coins on an exchange and perhaps just ignore the fork drama.   BTC seems to have a tendency to go the opposite direction of the masses.  

There are 2 options.

1. The price goes down. This means that the percentage of bitcoin that you can acquire is greater!

2. The price goes up. In this scenario the percentage of bitcoin that you can acquire diminishes, but the amount of fiat you can trade it for is greater.


Assuming you care only for the coin and not fiat. The demand will still be there, and you will be out of its way with u'r dead weight corpse dragging 'fake' trade. And any of those 2 scenarios would help you profit. So??

Dead weight corpse dragging fake trade?  Haha, didn't intend to put your knickers in a twist. I don't claim to know what will happen but being one who's gone against the crowd most of my life has worked out well for me so far.  Best of luck to you sir.

Do as you wish! It's your money! .. But I am also against the tide most of the time, even if I have an autistic method of looking at charts and seeing weird patterns that most of the time are correct or at least with a 5-10% error deviation from the standard.

[JayJuanGee]

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept

I don´t get the part of "stealing" segwit transactions. It sounds like bullshit, but Anonymint have a greater tech knowledge than me. Can some tech savvy user confirm it?

Yes. It is a well-known attribute of SegWit.

It is a well-known stupidity of people claiming this.

Well, you can pretend that an 'anyone can spend' transaction is something other than an 'anyone can spend' transaction. But of course that would be tautologically impossible.

Jbreher:

You and some of the big blocker nutjobs seem to have tendencies to cry wolf so much that if there did happen to be a real issue or a real problem, then it is possible that people might not believe you because they have been exposed to too many exaggerations,  made up facts and made up conclusions, right?

[Biro Bob]

ATH is being broken this month... you heard it here first boys!!!

This month?

As in July?

oops.... I meant August!

I'd like to believe. But I'm not convinced 

[Last of the V8s]

ATH is being broken this month... you heard it here first boys!!!

This month?

As in July?

oops.... I meant August!

I'd like to believe. But I'm not convinced 

I am. 

Easily by this time tomorrow.

[starmman]

ATH is being broken this month... you heard it here first boys!!!

This month?

As in July?

oops.... I meant August!

I'd like to believe. But I'm not convinced 

I am. 

Easily by this time tomorrow.

Will be great to see some more bullish activity - I hope you all filled your boots during the drop we had recently =)

[rjclarke2000]

I know technically I am in cryostasis but I'll just say this....


I thought we are all expecting a huge drop tomorrow? Why talk of ATH?? What am I missing?

Off to freeze myself again until this blows over

[Mahanton]

Roger Ver must be rich as hell, I don't know why he even bothers any more. He should just cash the majority of his crypto holdings in & enjoy life.

Money is probably the hardest drug, once you are on it, it's super hard to stop 

Completely agree, and this kind of drug is really hard to resist because its always been part of ourself of being greedy when it comes to money. Ver would definitely jump in on opportunities that he would see that he can able to generate more money.If he would tend to sell some of his btc for bcc then its his own choice and it seems it nice to jump on on BCC hype and secure some profits.We wont know if the support would be strong or not, if you do like to gamble then jumping on BCC is a wise move.