Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[marcus_of_augustus]

No Fork?

[InvoKing]

No Fork?
-snip-

No Fork for you 
Oops breaking...News: BIP148 activated with no split or other issues. The Bcash split will happen later today (UTC).

[empowering]

Isn't BCC more of a ....... splinter at the moment than a fork or a split?

Unless we are going to get stabbed in the back with a fork by surprise of course... from an attacker hiding in the shadows... waiting to pounce.


Pesky Bitcoiners ;/

[bones261]

Isn't BCC more of a ....... splinter at the moment than a fork or a split?

Unless we are going to get stabbed in the back with a fork by surprise of course... from an attacker hiding in the shadows... waiting to pounce.


Pesky Bitcoiners ;/

A schism is probably the most suitable term. And just think, BCC has Bitcoin Jesus on their side.  

[empowering]

Isn't BCC more of a ....... splinter at the moment than a fork or a split?

Unless we are going to get stabbed in the back with a fork by surprise of course... from an attacker hiding in the shadows... waiting to pounce.


Pesky Bitcoiners ;/

A schism is probably the most suitable term. And just think, BCC has Bitcoin Jesus on their side. 

But currently a schism between an elephant and ....a goat?

Who knows maybe even a baby goat? Baaah who am I kiddin'?

More like an elephant and a ferret?

[jbreher]

Remember, to get the very best view of the eclipse, you must look directly at the sun for five minutes.

Eclipse is still three weeks away.

[matt4054]

Unsurprisingly, the mempool has run so dry it's actually impressive

Code:

$ bitcoin-cli getmempoolinfo
{
  "size": 160,
  "bytes": 570044,
  "usage": 1013008,
  "maxmempool": 300000000,
  "mempoolminfee": 0.00000000
}

I guess a few more blocks and they won't even be anywhere near 1 MB

[jbreher]

Issue in a nutshell:
- On a network where miners do not honor SegWit, all segwit transactions are 'anyone can spend' transactions
- On such a network, each successful miner can spend any 'anyone can spend' transaction to himself
- As segwit is used (e.g., on a segwit-honoring network), more value gets locked up in segwit/'anyone can spend' transactions
- As more value is built up in segwit/'anyone can spend' transactions, this increases the incentive for miners to flip the network from segwit-honoring to non-segwit
- This pressure increases with increasing use of segwit. Even if initially stable, the system tends further toward instability.
The net is that smallblockers need to trust the miners -- whom they seem to already believe to be evil -- to not steal their segwit transactions.

Of course, one can convert a segwit coin back to a bitcoin by spending it to yourself in a non-segwit transaction. But that also mandates a second transaction, thereby nullifying and even reversing segwit's so-called capacity increase.

Sounds very speculative and hypothetical to me.

No. Just No.

Please employ proper logic. Every bulleted item above is a factual statement. Would you like to challenge any of these factual statements on their own merit?

Whether or not those steps get chained together in reality is currently a matter of speculation, yes. But I made no such claim. A set of factual statements is not "speculative and hypothetical".  Any speculation as to the consequences of the above has been left to the reader.

[JayJuanGee]

WTF? So is Roger Ver full of shit? Is this BCC fork thing not happening now?

I swear to the gods, if that guy and the whole lot of them was bullshitting this whole time about a fork, then I think it's time to gather up the torches, pitchforks, and some rope, fellas. We need to end this FUD garbage once and for all.

Patience grasshopper.

We still have 10 hours.   

[JayJuanGee]

Whats the scoop on trezor, can you move BCC directly to an exchange from there ? I wanna dump that garbage first thing tom morning

They are going to do a firmware update to the Trezor, and it will include some process to move the BCC to different addresses. No firm date when the firmware will be available. You may have to wait, and by that time, your BCC will probably be dust unless you have lots of BTC.

https://blog.trezor.io/bitcoin-cash-hard-fork-chain-split-safe-guide-abbe3e9c553f

Does ledger's coin splitting process occur more quickly?

If you want to be safe, it's kind of irrelevant. I wouldn't be moving any coins anywhere for at least 2 days or so anyway.

My plan is to HODL for a little while, and wait for a dead cat bounce. I may possibly wait for a Ver/Jihan/Big Blocker pump. I'd be surprised if they just let BCC get permanently ground into dust right from the start.

I was not planning to move anything , and I agree with you that a couple of days may be a minimum expectation.  I was just wondering if Bones, or anyone else, might know if Ledger already has some kind of splitting software (or firmware) that is already in place?

[jbreher]

WTF? So is Roger Ver full of shit? Is this BCC fork thing not happening now?

Well, if nobody mines it, there can be no fork.

I swear to the gods, if that guy and the whole lot of them was bullshitting this whole time about a fork,

I'm completely serious in my support for the Bitcoin Cash efforts. But it has been years since I controlled any hashpower. I'm at the mercy of the miners like the rest of y'all.

Of course, the accelerated difficulty adjustment will keep ratcheting down 20% every 12 hours, until it is minable by GPU. If it makes ya feel any better, if it goes that long, I'll mine the first damned fork block. I've still got one of those USB FPGA hashing dongles around here somewhere...

[jbreher]

How much powder for a four-fortissimo?

Come to think of it, weren't exploding noisemakers the thing that landed someone in the hoosegow?

[Dafar]

Alright guys... I'm HODLING!

WE RIDE 2GETHER OR WE DIE 2GETHER!!!! LAST STORM BEFORE EPIC RALLY! I'M READY!!!!

[bones261]

WTF? So is Roger Ver full of shit? Is this BCC fork thing not happening now?

Well, if nobody mines it, there can be no fork.

I swear to the gods, if that guy and the whole lot of them was bullshitting this whole time about a fork,

I'm completely serious in my support for the Bitcoin Cash efforts. But it has been years since I controlled any hashpower. I'm at the mercy of the miners like the rest of y'all.

Don't fret. There's always MMR and Nicehash.

[bones261]

Whats the scoop on trezor, can you move BCC directly to an exchange from there ? I wanna dump that garbage first thing tom morning

They are going to do a firmware update to the Trezor, and it will include some process to move the BCC to different addresses. No firm date when the firmware will be available. You may have to wait, and by that time, your BCC will probably be dust unless you have lots of BTC.

https://blog.trezor.io/bitcoin-cash-hard-fork-chain-split-safe-guide-abbe3e9c553f

Does ledger's coin splitting process occur more quickly?

If you want to be safe, it's kind of irrelevant. I wouldn't be moving any coins anywhere for at least 2 days or so anyway.

My plan is to HODL for a little while, and wait for a dead cat bounce. I may possibly wait for a Ver/Jihan/Big Blocker pump. I'd be surprised if they just let BCC get permanently ground into dust right from the start.

I was not planning to move anything , and I agree with you that a couple of days may be a minimum expectation.  I was just wondering if Bones, or anyone else, might know if Ledger already has some kind of splitting software (or firmware) that is already in place?

Yes, looks like they are ready. I don't own a ledger, but seems easy enough.

https://blog.ledger.co/managing-the-bitcoin-cash-fork-7229dde3f358

[JayJuanGee]

Whats the scoop on trezor, can you move BCC directly to an exchange from there ? I wanna dump that garbage first thing tom morning

They are going to do a firmware update to the Trezor, and it will include some process to move the BCC to different addresses. No firm date when the firmware will be available. You may have to wait, and by that time, your BCC will probably be dust unless you have lots of BTC.

https://blog.trezor.io/bitcoin-cash-hard-fork-chain-split-safe-guide-abbe3e9c553f

Does ledger's coin splitting process occur more quickly?

https://blog.ledger.co/securing-your-free-bitcoin-cash-stash-d50aff765688

Right after fork they will enable a BTC/BCC selector in the chrome app similar to the one already in place for ETH/ETC. So it will be pretty easy and straightforward.

Thanks bitserve.  That is very helpful to see how the ledger seems to have plans in place for a pretty quick update that will allow for coinsplitting - yet the Trezor has some timeline uncertainties regarding its deployment of those capabilities.

[bones261]

Thanks bitserve.  That is very helpful to see how the ledger seems to have plans in place for a pretty quick update that will allow for coinsplitting - yet the Trezor has some timeline uncertainties regarding its deployment of those capabilities.

I probably could use the BCC version of Electrum (called Electron Cash) to get them sooner. But I don't want to inadvertently screw up something royal. I'll just wait for Slush.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

How much powder for a four-fortissimo?

Come to think of it, weren't exploding noisemakers the thing that landed someone in the hoosegow?

In a sense, yes.

[matt4054]

Of course, the accelerated difficulty adjustment will keep ratcheting down 20% every 12 hours, until it is minable by GPU. If it makes ya feel any better, if it goes that long, I'll mine the first damned fork block. I've still got one of those USB FPGA hashing dongles around here somewhere...

Nah, I'll beat you to it!



Fun fact: the one on the top has cost me 50 BTC directly from friedcat, RIP

[JayJuanGee]

Issue in a nutshell:
- On a network where miners do not honor SegWit, all segwit transactions are 'anyone can spend' transactions
- On such a network, each successful miner can spend any 'anyone can spend' transaction to himself
- As segwit is used (e.g., on a segwit-honoring network), more value gets locked up in segwit/'anyone can spend' transactions
- As more value is built up in segwit/'anyone can spend' transactions, this increases the incentive for miners to flip the network from segwit-honoring to non-segwit
- This pressure increases with increasing use of segwit. Even if initially stable, the system tends further toward instability.
The net is that smallblockers need to trust the miners -- whom they seem to already believe to be evil -- to not steal their segwit transactions.

Of course, one can convert a segwit coin back to a bitcoin by spending it to yourself in a non-segwit transaction. But that also mandates a second transaction, thereby nullifying and even reversing segwit's so-called capacity increase.

Sounds very speculative and hypothetical to me.

No. Just No.

Please employ proper logic. Every bulleted item above is a factual statement. Would you like to challenge any of these factual statements on their own merit?

Whether or not those steps get chained together in reality is currently a matter of speculation, yes. But I made no such claim. A set of factual statements is not "speculative and hypothetical".  Any speculation as to the consequences of the above has been left to the reader.

That is nonsense.  I can make all kinds of factual statements, and then there is no consequence unless you can describe some kind of logical connection.

For example:

1) The sky is clear (meaning no clouds) today

2) Billy bob drives a Toyota Prius

3) That window is dangerous because it slams down without any restraints

4) The goat eats a lot of grass, especially for its size.

5) The Iphone will be damaged if you drop it in the toilet, because it is an Iphone 4

6) If any one of those lightbulbs burn out, then the whole chain does not work,

7) e = mc squared


No matter the string of facts, the jbreher Conclusion is:  Segwit is going to be a disaster for bitcoin because it is too complicated, and even though segwit is a done deal, I am going to continue to whine about it and assert that we should employ a more simple and straight forward solution of increasing to 2mb block limits.