Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[lucas.sev]

2k ask wall at 118

[Rampion]

About time!

[nmersulypnem]

PRO TIP:  Do not buy into the Sell Wall.  It is designed to bleed money from the bots.

[phoenix1]

You are very mistaken if you think that Bitcoin is a micropayment network headed to compete with PayPal.

Bitcoin is not about that. It's about storing value in a decentralized, cash-like and trust-free way. It's the "decentralized, pseudo anonymous, gold-like cash of the Internet"

If you do not see the potential and the demand for that, think again.

I am not attacking, but if we replace the word 'value' with 'data' in that sentence and remove all references to 'cash' and 'gold' does that not open up a whole new world of possibilities, one of which involves money, and multiple others that place a value on the data stored.

I am relatively new to this and if my understanding is wrong, please correct me, but as I see it your statement is actually limiting the potential of the blockchain.

If on the other hand I am actually starting to 'see it', please confirm  

[lucas.sev]

PRO TIP:  Do not buy into the Sell Wall.  It is designed to bleed money from the bots.

That's interesting information, how does that work?

[phoenix1]

Excluding political arguments, I see no reason right now. Hence most proponents are hoarding and waiting for the next bubble. And it will probably come. I am not a techy, but my limited understanding leads me to accept that the technology behind it is 'genius', but right now, as a currency ... meh ... it isn't one. It's a speculative investment. Nothing wrong with that ...

I think the SR argument is wearing a bit thin now though  ... I do not believe that BTC would fail without SR

I agree that it would not fail, however without it it would be totally in speculators hands. I see no reason either. And I agree that next bubble will come. I hope for it as well of course. In other news: someone dumped 2.5k 5k BTC

It IS almost totally in speculators/innovators/early adopter's hands already ...

[humanitee]

PANIC PANIC PANIC!

SELL SELL SELL.

35K dump...  I am so glad I pulled out today.

Might want to check your ass again for that number.

[lucas.sev]

Excluding political arguments, I see no reason right now. Hence most proponents are hoarding and waiting for the next bubble. And it will probably come. I am not a techy, but my limited understanding leads me to accept that the technology behind it is 'genius', but right now, as a currency ... meh ... it isn't one. It's a speculative investment. Nothing wrong with that ...

I think the SR argument is wearing a bit thin now though  ... I do not believe that BTC would fail without SR

I agree that it would not fail, however without it it would be totally in speculators hands. I see no reason either. And I agree that next bubble will come. I hope for it as well of course. In other news: someone dumped 2.5k 5k BTC

It IS almost totally in speculators/innovators/early adopter's hands already ...

Again, I agree. But it's nice knowing that there is one practical use for it, that will continue to be exist even if big money leaves.

[nmersulypnem]

PRO TIP:  Do not buy into the Sell Wall.  It is designed to bleed money from the bots.

That's interesting information, how does that work?

The volatility bots assume that the price will hover around a certain running average.  When they see it dip above or below they are programmed to buy/sell accordingly.  If you want to unload a very large number of BTC the optimal strategy is to stabilize/inflate the price with a buy wall for a bit (artificially lowering volatility), wait for the buy orders to build up above you, then sell into them.  This will cause some slippage, but by putting a sell wall midway through your big sell the volatility bots will trade into it (incorrectly thinking it's just a momentary fluctuation).  That way you sell 20K BTC from, say 119 to 117, and another 5K at 118.  ...this maximizes your selling revenues.

EDIT:  It looks like he placed his sell wall too high and wasn't able to unload the 1800 BTC.  So expect a slow 1800 dump in the coming hours (in globs of 300-500).

[phoenix1]

Excluding political arguments, I see no reason right now. Hence most proponents are hoarding and waiting for the next bubble. And it will probably come. I am not a techy, but my limited understanding leads me to accept that the technology behind it is 'genius', but right now, as a currency ... meh ... it isn't one. It's a speculative investment. Nothing wrong with that ...

I think the SR argument is wearing a bit thin now though  ... I do not believe that BTC would fail without SR

I agree that it would not fail, however without it it would be totally in speculators hands. I see no reason either. And I agree that next bubble will come. I hope for it as well of course. In other news: someone dumped 2.5k 5k BTC

It IS almost totally in speculators/innovators/early adopter's hands already ...

Again, I agree. But it's nice knowing that there is one practical use for it, that will continue to be exist even if big money leaves.

Actually, it's currently sliding down their trouser legs 

[lucas.sev]

PRO TIP:  Do not buy into the Sell Wall.  It is designed to bleed money from the bots.

That's interesting information, how does that work?

The volatility bots assume that the price will hover around a certain running average.  When they see it dip above or below they are programmed to buy/sell accordingly.  If you want to unload a very large number of BTC the optimal strategy is to stabilize/inflate the price with a buy wall for a bit (artificially lowering volatility), wait for the sell orders to build up above you, then sell into them.  This will cause some slippage, but by putting a sell wall midway through your big sell the volatility bots will trade into it (incorrectly thinking it's just a momentary fluctuation).  That way you sell 20K BTC from, say 119 to 117, and another 5K at 118.  ...this maximizes your selling revenues.

You mean for buy orders to build up above me?

[nmersulypnem]

PRO TIP:  Do not buy into the Sell Wall.  It is designed to bleed money from the bots.

That's interesting information, how does that work?

The volatility bots assume that the price will hover around a certain running average.  When they see it dip above or below they are programmed to buy/sell accordingly.  If you want to unload a very large number of BTC the optimal strategy is to stabilize/inflate the price with a buy wall for a bit (artificially lowering volatility), wait for the sell orders to build up above you, then sell into them.  This will cause some slippage, but by putting a sell wall midway through your big sell the volatility bots will trade into it (incorrectly thinking it's just a momentary fluctuation).  That way you sell 20K BTC from, say 119 to 117, and another 5K at 118.  ...this maximizes your selling revenues.

You mean for buy orders to build up above me?

Yes, sorry: buy orders.  I always get confused between buying and selling...

[lucas.sev]

PRO TIP:  Do not buy into the Sell Wall.  It is designed to bleed money from the bots.

That's interesting information, how does that work?

The volatility bots assume that the price will hover around a certain running average.  When they see it dip above or below they are programmed to buy/sell accordingly.  If you want to unload a very large number of BTC the optimal strategy is to stabilize/inflate the price with a buy wall for a bit (artificially lowering volatility), wait for the sell orders to build up above you, then sell into them.  This will cause some slippage, but by putting a sell wall midway through your big sell the volatility bots will trade into it (incorrectly thinking it's just a momentary fluctuation).  That way you sell 20K BTC from, say 119 to 117, and another 5K at 118.  ...this maximizes your selling revenues.

You mean for buy orders to build up above me?

Yes, sorry: buy orders.  I always get confused between buying and selling...

I understand it as:

Lets say price is 120

1. I put a massive wall at 117
2. Other people think price wont dip because of 117 support, they put bids at 118 and 119.
3. I unload and lower the price to 117.
4. I put a wall at 118
5. Bots think that 118 is a great deal and bite into it

[MAbtc]

The Silk Road talk is so '2011ish. Came on. People sees that there's much more in BTC, besides of the fact that real economy is still reduced and that it's very speculation driven.

This baby needs to grow a little bit, but it's unstoppable.

The question is why the f--k would I want to internationally transfer my money to Japan, wait 4 days, pay transfer fees, buy one bitcoin and then buy a service I could pay for instantly with paypal? The only reason to go through hassle of getting bitcoin is using silkroad. Please tell me, why else would I want to use bitcoin to buy something over using credit card or paypal.

It is a serious question, I expect a thought out answer.

This applies to a lot of people, IMO, including me. There is absolutely zilch that I would use bitcoins for, since it is far more convenient (and safe, considering the short time bitcoin vendors have existed) to use fiat, with the exception of Silk Road. Re Silk Road, however, I can find better drugs for much cheaper, and fuck drugs in mail, so that's no go either. So I am here strictly for speculation. So I wonder..... what do we see among the speculator population if we see months of sideways trading, or a long slow downslide?

[TheKoziTwo]

why else would I buy something using bitcoin instead of dollars?

Why would you do it? I really have no idea. You don't particularly strike me as the kind of guy who appreciates what bitcoin has to offer that the traditional finance system does not. Or maybe you're just confused and expect bitcoin to be another paypal right off the bat. But it doesn't work like that, this technology has to mature, become trusted, a store of value.

Bitcoin is a deflationary currency. I bought coins back in 2011 and 2012, those have now massively increased in value. I'm kind of a minimalist so I don't buy much, but if I wanted to, I could now go to bitcoinstore.com or whatever and have purchasing power many times what I put in. So the first question to ask yourself is maybe, could it be worth buying bitcoin, and save them for later. So instead of buying the exact number you need to purchase something today, buy 10 times more than you need, or 100 times. And keep the money there for the day you will actually need it.

I think that bitcoin needs to establish itself as a store of value, to really take full advantage of the payment features. If people don't trust it as a store of value, and have to "deposit" bitcoin everytime they want to buy something, that kind of makes it pointless. And for people who think of it like that, it won't work. You need to have more faith in bitcoin than to use it as a method of shuffling money through. It's not suppose to be an exchange.

Now second point is, those who earn their money in BTC. This is an fantastic opportunity for them to earn and spend their money, tax free. This is a huge deal. And it works in any business accepting bitcoin. It's a way to earn money in the black market and spend it in legitimate shops like bitcoinstore etc.

[lucas.sev]

The Silk Road talk is so '2011ish. Came on. People sees that there's much more in BTC, besides of the fact that real economy is still reduced and that it's very speculation driven.

This baby needs to grow a little bit, but it's unstoppable.

The question is why the f--k would I want to internationally transfer my money to Japan, wait 4 days, pay transfer fees, buy one bitcoin and then buy a service I could pay for instantly with paypal? The only reason to go through hassle of getting bitcoin is using silkroad. Please tell me, why else would I want to use bitcoin to buy something over using credit card or paypal.

It is a serious question, I expect a thought out answer.

This applies to a lot of people, IMO, including me. There is absolutely zilch that I would use bitcoins for, since it is far more convenient (and safe, considering the short time bitcoin vendors have existed) to use fiat, with the exception of Silk Road. Re Silk Road, however, I can find better drugs for much cheaper, and fuck drugs in mail, so that's no go either. So I am here strictly for speculation. So I wonder..... what do we see among the speculator population if we see months of sideways trading, or a long slow downslide?

Silkroad is great for people that don't want anything to do with dealers, are looking for prescription medication and fuck, drugs in mail!

[nmersulypnem]

PRO TIP:  Do not buy into the Sell Wall.  It is designed to bleed money from the bots.

That's interesting information, how does that work?

The volatility bots assume that the price will hover around a certain running average.  When they see it dip above or below they are programmed to buy/sell accordingly.  If you want to unload a very large number of BTC the optimal strategy is to stabilize/inflate the price with a buy wall for a bit (artificially lowering volatility), wait for the sell orders to build up above you, then sell into them.  This will cause some slippage, but by putting a sell wall midway through your big sell the volatility bots will trade into it (incorrectly thinking it's just a momentary fluctuation).  That way you sell 20K BTC from, say 119 to 117, and another 5K at 118.  ...this maximizes your selling revenues.

You mean for buy orders to build up above me?

Yes, sorry: buy orders.  I always get confused between buying and selling...

I understand it as:

Lets say price is 120

1. I put a massive wall at 117
2. Other people think price wont dip because of 117 support, they put bids at 118 and 119.
3. I unload and lower the price to 117.
4. I put a wall at 118
5. Bots think that 118 is a great deal and bite into it

Exactly.  Again, this is a Whale's strategy.  His alternative is to sell lots in smaller batches - 100 at a time and let the bots keep the price stable, but eventually the bot owners realize they are losing money and the market becomes fatigued.  This is exactly what's been going on over the last couple weeks.  You see small 100/500 lot sells spaced out so as not to crash the market.  ...but it's clear that someone(s) has LOTS of BTC to sell.

[lucas.sev]

why else would I buy something using bitcoin instead of dollars?

Bitcoin is a deflationary currency. I bought coins back in 2011 and 2012, those have now massively increased in value. I'm kind of a minimalist so I don't buy much, but if I wanted to, I could now go to bitcoinstore.com or whatever and have purchasing power many times what I put in. So the first question to ask yourself is maybe, could it be worth buying bitcoin, and save them for later. So instead of buying the exact number you need to purchase something today, buy 10 times more than you need, or 100 times. And keep the money there for the day you will actually need it.

Yeah that's the point upon which we agree, it's a thing that could boom. Thing that I can sell 100 of in 10 years and get myself maybe a nice flat? I want to believe in that becuse, hell, who does not want to be rich But otherwise its only USE that does not involve unnecessary hassle is silkroad. For all other uses there are traditional methods.

[TheKoziTwo]

why else would I buy something using bitcoin instead of dollars?

Bitcoin is a deflationary currency. I bought coins back in 2011 and 2012, those have now massively increased in value. I'm kind of a minimalist so I don't buy much, but if I wanted to, I could now go to bitcoinstore.com or whatever and have purchasing power many times what I put in. So the first question to ask yourself is maybe, could it be worth buying bitcoin, and save them for later. So instead of buying the exact number you need to purchase something today, buy 10 times more than you need, or 100 times. And keep the money there for the day you will actually need it.

Yeah that's the point upon which we agree, it's a thing that could boom. Thing that I can sell 100 of in 10 years and get myself maybe a nice flat? I want to believe in that becuse, hell, who does not want to be rich But otherwise its only USE that does not involve unnecessary hassle is silkroad. For all other uses there are traditional methods.

Eventually it will become valuable and adopted enough to be stable. At that point it will be a flourishing economy. Just look at liberty reserve and similar payment systems. They are doing great, without people like you. But I think bitcoin can even work for people like you, eventually, but we are many years off.

edit: and if you are using SR, it already does work for you, even though it doesn't satisfy all your needs yet.

[lucas.sev]

why else would I buy something using bitcoin instead of dollars?

Bitcoin is a deflationary currency. I bought coins back in 2011 and 2012, those have now massively increased in value. I'm kind of a minimalist so I don't buy much, but if I wanted to, I could now go to bitcoinstore.com or whatever and have purchasing power many times what I put in. So the first question to ask yourself is maybe, could it be worth buying bitcoin, and save them for later. So instead of buying the exact number you need to purchase something today, buy 10 times more than you need, or 100 times. And keep the money there for the day you will actually need it.

Yeah that's the point upon which we agree, it's a thing that could boom. Thing that I can sell 100 of in 10 years and get myself maybe a nice flat? I want to believe in that becuse, hell, who does not want to be rich But otherwise its only USE that does not involve unnecessary hassle is silkroad. For all other uses there are traditional methods.

Eventually it will become valuable and adopted enough to be stable. At that point it will be a flourishing economy. Just look at liberty reserve and similar payment systems. They are doing great, without people like you. But I think bitcoin can even work for people like you, eventually, but we are many years off.

I do not know what you mean by "people like me". I belive in holding bitcoin, but I believe it's only use beside silkroad is holding so that it can be exchanged later for much much more than it could have on the day of buy.