Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Miz4r]

Do I have to remind you guys that keeping coins and not spending them means you're killing it as a currency?

Yes, that is true in Paul Krugman's socialist keynesian wet dream.

In the real world we call it "using buzzwords (like 'hoarders') to demonize responsible saving."

Nobody ever has any legit data to back up their assumption that there is this huge number of people who hoard BTCs and never spend them. Although if you look at tx volume, you'd easily see that the ratio of spent coins to hoarded coins is much higher than with the USD OR precious metals. The second we say "Oh, but I do spend my coins" the 'anti-hoarder' crowd backs off - "Oh, well that's ok, you're a spender, you're benefiting the currency."
So what is the magical ratio of spend to saved coins you must reach before being considered a hoarder, and how can we empirically justify this ratio? No one has ever answered me this question, and I ask it every single time someone demonizes saving by implying that it "kills bitcoin."

People hoarded gold and silver and they were used as currencies for millenia. Thousands of years. Go read Fekete's papers on monetary theory you will shit your pants when you read what he has to say about hoarding  

I use a toilet for that... u know... toilet!!!!!!

I know pretty well I stirred a bitbee nest by saying that but don't forget.
Greed will destroy every dream no matter how beautifull it is  , and currently bitcoin is driven by greed.

Unlike many others on forum , I haven't put all my hopes of a wealthy future in bitcoins succes, and thus I can keep a cooler head than most people here.

You're overgeneralizing, you don't know how many people are in it just for their own personal greed and I think you are just guessing based on your biased gut feeling. Bitcoin is driven by many things, and yes greed is a part of that too just like with all innovative technologies. But I think you're underestimating the amount of people who truly care about bitcoin as a technology that could revolutionize our monetary system. I am quite heavily invested into bitcoin, but I'm not at all counting on becoming rich because of it. If that happens to be the case, cool. But most importantly I think a decentralized cryptocurrency is what this world needs right now in the midst of all the economic turmoil.

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[michaelGedi]

off topic: I remember seeing a "recommended fees" table somewhere online, does anyone know of this, can anyone send me a link?



on topic: if you zoom in on bitstamp, the bid walls look nice and healthy now.... just don't zoom out far enough to see those patient 130 ask walls...

[nmersulypnem]

off topic: I remember seeing a "recommended fees" table somewhere online, does anyone know of this, can anyone send me a link?



on topic: if you zoom in on bitstamp, the bid walls look nice and healthy now.... just don't zoom out far enough to see those patient 130 ask walls...

Patience is a virtue, those Askers have little.  Once the price starts declining again, we're going to see a lot more dumping...

[SlipperySlope]

Volume is tapering off as we have come to expect leading into the weekend. I've drawn support and resistance lines but the volatility today has cleared out the large bid and ask walls that would otherwise channel the price.

[niothor]

Patience is a virtue, those Askers have little.  Once the price starts declining again, we're going to see a lot more dumping...

There is a guy asking for 1 trilion for his bitcoins so some of the askers do have patience 

[giszmo]

Patience is a virtue, those Askers have little.  Once the price starts declining again, we're going to see a lot more dumping...

There is a guy asking for 1 trilion for his bitcoins so some of the askers do have patience 

Asking one trillions USD is as if you asked one trillion Simbabwe dollars for your Bitcoin. Yeah, sure, we might reach this price and many around here hope rather sooner than later but selling your bitcoins for one trillion $$ then would be much more stupid than to sell them now for $100. Patience you are talking about is laziness, not to anticipate the value in the near and far future. I am too lazy to sell now and know too little to do so, either. I think it would be a good idea to sell now but I am too afraid of missing the train.

[wachtwoord]

Patience is a virtue, those Askers have little.  Once the price starts declining again, we're going to see a lot more dumping...

There is a guy asking for 1 trilion for his bitcoins so some of the askers do have patience 

I'll go lower than $1T

[michaelGedi]

gosh... I get ready to sell x% and leave the profit as investment in ASICMINER, then I start reading the relentlessly positive r/Bitcoin....

http://www.thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-london-draws-attention-of-mainstream-finance

so, I figure now is a good a time as any to take some profit from ASICMINER's recent explosion and wait for brighter days...  now the bids are looking very strong around $105ish on gox, and bitstamp just can't be trusted one way or the other - everytime you think it's going to drop, someone executes a massive buy, plus the bids closest to the price are all looking fairly healthy now as well.

question is, what's a good mid term exit point, something just below $115ish and hope for a bounce? hmm


I wonder what mr manipulator wants to do now...

[ChartBuddy]

[sarc]

I wonder what mr manipulator wants to do now...

the same as everyone else, dump and leave the area...

[adamstgBit]

I wonder what mr manipulator wants to do now...

the same as everyone else, dump and leave the area...

lol

who the hell wants to do that

... no one wants to do that

keep buying folks, bear trap caught a big bear 

[BitcoinAshley]

I use a toilet for that... u know... toilet!!!!!!

I know pretty well I stirred a bitbee nest by saying that but don't forget.
Greed will destroy every dream no matter how beautifull it is  , and currently bitcoin is driven by greed.

Unlike many others on forum , I haven't put all my hopes of a wealthy future in bitcoins succes, and thus I can keep a cooler head than most people here.

(1) You made a nonsensical, irrelevant statement about a toilet.
(2) You acknowledged that you said something stupid and someone else responded to it.
(3) You made a nonsensical, irrelevant statement about "greed" that cannot be empirically proven
(4) You made a generality regarding the "hopes" of "others on forum," and used that generality to support some sort of statement about your mood. This is called a "non-sequitur."


Ok, so you replied by saying absolutely nothing. Great job. 

Oh, and this:

You're overgeneralizing, you don't know how many people are in it just for their own personal greed and I think you are just guessing based on your biased gut feeling. Bitcoin is driven by many things, and yes greed is a part of that too just like with all innovative technologies. But I think you're underestimating the amount of people who truly care about bitcoin as a technology that could revolutionize our monetary system. I am quite heavily invested into bitcoin, but I'm not at all counting on becoming rich because of it. If that happens to be the case, cool. But most importantly I think a decentralized cryptocurrency is what this world needs right now in the midst of all the economic turmoil.

[niothor]

I use a toilet for that... u know... toilet!!!!!!

I know pretty well I stirred a bitbee nest by saying that but don't forget.
Greed will destroy every dream no matter how beautifull it is  , and currently bitcoin is driven by greed.

Unlike many others on forum , I haven't put all my hopes of a wealthy future in bitcoins succes, and thus I can keep a cooler head than most people here.

(1) You made a nonsensical, irrelevant statement about a toilet.
(2) You acknowledged that you said something stupid and someone else responded to it.
(3) You made a nonsensical, irrelevant statement about "greed" that cannot be empirically proven
(4) You made a generality regarding the "hopes" of "others on forum," and used that generality to support some sort of statement about your mood. This is called a "non-sequitur."


Ok, so you replied by saying absolutely nothing. Great job.  

Oh, and this:

You're overgeneralizing, you don't know how many people are in it just for their own personal greed and I think you are just guessing based on your biased gut feeling. Bitcoin is driven by many things, and yes greed is a part of that too just like with all innovative technologies. But I think you're underestimating the amount of people who truly care about bitcoin as a technology that could revolutionize our monetary system. I am quite heavily invested into bitcoin, but I'm not at all counting on becoming rich because of it. If that happens to be the case, cool. But most importantly I think a decentralized cryptocurrency is what this world needs right now in the midst of all the economic turmoil.

Yeah , I talk like that when I speak to zealots!
I know pretty much they are like horses with cheekpieces!

Unfortunately I read too many of your post ...

You're one of those guys who believe in thousands of foodler restaurants , hundred of bitpay merchants added daily , and lots of VC, DP , and BBW investing money in bitcoins.

And of course if i show you one of this charts

http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions
http://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume-usd

which are in total contradiction of the MASS adoption and people spending more and more bitcoins on different merchandise your gonna go in a denial phase.

Well , good luck with your bitcoin going from currency to commodity or .. collectibles.

[ChartBuddy]

[420]

The only reason to go through hassle of getting bitcoin is using silkroad

oh don't get me started



guy's liking the volatiliy?

[michaelGedi]

shits getting deep.

Some are holding coins in order to spend them later when it's easier and safer and they can buy the normal things they would buy in their everyday life without a second thought, and without having to change back to fiat... yes that doesn't account for the transactions now, but as merchants accept more and infrastructure develops, if the speculation does drive the price up, I am assuming people will want to spend their (now more valuable) coins... obviously this comment also doesn't have much to do with the transaction volume affecting the price on the exchanges now, but on that subject I will also put forward the idea that it may not have much impact on the exchanges, as day to day purchases of coins to spend coins would be inefficient, I will assume that many people already have large stashes of coins they might spend.... finally also bear in mind that some of the philosophy of bitcoin (for some people, and anecdotally a majority) is not to spend spend spend to drive a consumerist economy. As mentioned before, just because the economy is not full of high volume transactions, doesn't mean it's not living and breathing.

Stream of consciousness waffle here so take it or leave it

[niothor]

shits getting deep.

Some are holding coins in order to spend them later when it's easier and safer and they can buy the normal things they would buy in their everyday life without a second thought, and without having to change back to fiat... yes that doesn't account for the transactions now, but as merchants accept more and infrastructure develops, if the speculation does drive the price up, I am assuming people will want to spend their (now more valuable) coins... obviously this comment also doesn't have much to do with the transaction volume affecting the price on the exchanges now, but on that subject I will also put forward the idea that it may not have much impact on the exchanges, as day to day purchases of coins to spend coins would be inefficient, I will assume that many people already have large stashes of coins they might spend.... finally also bear in mind that some of the philosophy of bitcoin (for some people, and anecdotally a majority) is not to spend spend spend to drive a consumerist economy. As mentioned before, just because the economy is not full of high volume transactions, doesn't mean it's not living and breathing.

Stream of consciousness waffle here so take it or leave it

Do you know what merchants do with payment solution that don't generate any sales?

If you get only a sale / month you wil drop it just because it's more of a hassle to work with it than the outcoming profit.

My fear is this might happen first.

later edit:
As usual people see my point of view as a bitcoin enemy and a non-believer.

For me , bitcoin is just an experiment , quite a funny one. I ended up using bitcoin by necessity and I have no god damn interest in price (besides making fun of bulls or bears).

For me its use is far more interesting.

[adamstgBit]

so long term we are looking at what?

double dip recession with a dead cat bounce that falls into a depression  

 

[MAbtc]

shits getting deep.

Some are holding coins in order to spend them later when it's easier and safer and they can buy the normal things they would buy in their everyday life without a second thought, and without having to change back to fiat... yes that doesn't account for the transactions now, but as merchants accept more and infrastructure develops, if the speculation does drive the price up, I am assuming people will want to spend their (now more valuable) coins... obviously this comment also doesn't have much to do with the transaction volume affecting the price on the exchanges now, but on that subject I will also put forward the idea that it may not have much impact on the exchanges, as day to day purchases of coins to spend coins would be inefficient, I will assume that many people already have large stashes of coins they might spend.... finally also bear in mind that some of the philosophy of bitcoin (for some people, and anecdotally a majority) is not to spend spend spend to drive a consumerist economy. As mentioned before, just because the economy is not full of high volume transactions, doesn't mean it's not living and breathing.

Stream of consciousness waffle here so take it or leave it

Do you know what merchants do with payment solution that don't generate any sales?

If you get only a sale / month you wil drop it just because it's more of a hassle to work with it than the outcoming profit.

My fear is this might happen first.

I often wonder about this. People always mention the phenomenon of new vendors accepting Bitcoin -- through Bitpay, of course   -- as a bullish indicator, but we never know what kind of volume this really amounts to. It's one of those things I've never been able to wrap my head around... because many new vendors accepting bitcoin could, in theory, amount to absolutely nothing.

[SlipperySlope]

And of course if i show you one of this charts

http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions
http://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume-usd

which are in total contradiction of the MASS adoption and people spending more and more bitcoins on different merchandise your gonna go in a denial phase.

Well , good luck with your bitcoin going from currency to commodity or .. collectibles.

I prefer another of the excellent blockchain.info charts. Excluding distortions such as Satoshi Dice, this one clearly illustrates the long term growth of the underlying bitcoin economy. The drawn support line indicates a growth rate of 10x every 14 months which approximately agrees with the corresponding long term support line for bitcoin prices.

The chart settings are log, smoothed and all data.