Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Ibian]

Strange pattern this weekend: lots of shilling by newbies or outright new accounts, but without the serious pump&dump action we are accustomed to.  Someone out of sync possibly?

On a related note, censoring jbreher's posts was less than wise IMO. He's still an apostate living out of the Grace of Bitcoin, but some of the points he makes contain enough thought to deserve discussion (and civilized flaming, including the occasional f'off).

Scorched earth is the only way to fight rabbits. Just how it is.

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[gembitz]

[...]
On a related note, censoring jbreher's posts was less than wise IMO. He's still an apostate living out of the Grace of Bitcoin, but some of the points he makes contain enough thought to deserve discussion (and civilized flaming, including the occasional f'off).

I agree. Being able to delete posts comes with great responsibility. Act accordingly.

Or in other words: don't moderate this thread to an even bigger circle jerk. Nobody gains from this and it just forces discussion elsewhere. You end up moderating an informationless thread with just memes and price cheering (which sounds awfully familiar to a certain heavily moderated reddit sub).

jbreher is legit even if mods dont like what he has to say he cool imo ~ :-D  #freedomofspeak

[itod]

[...]
On a related note, censoring jbreher's posts was less than wise IMO. He's still an apostate living out of the Grace of Bitcoin, but some of the points he makes contain enough thought to deserve discussion (and civilized flaming, including the occasional f'off).

I agree. Being able to delete posts comes with great responsibility. Act accordingly.

Or in other words: don't moderate this thread to an even bigger circle jerk. Nobody gains from this and it just forces discussion elsewhere. You end up moderating an informationless thread with just memes and price cheering (which sounds awfully familiar to a certain heavily moderated reddit sub).

Nobody is for censorship, but if you think you can have "discussion" with jbreher you are welcome to try it yourself. He just spams nonsense based on pulling what is being said out of context. That's reflected in his style of writing where he randomly quotes dozen of posts, and then using that to avoid any reasonable argument. If that kind of "discussion" is forced elsewhere it is not a loss, it's a gain IMHO.

+1 for moderators.

[sirazimuth]

Strange pattern this weekend: lots of shilling by newbies or outright new accounts, but without the serious pump&dump action we are accustomed to.  Someone out of sync possibly?

On a related note, censoring jbreher's posts was less than wise IMO. He's still an apostate living out of the Grace of Bitcoin, but some of the points he makes contain enough thought to deserve discussion (and civilized flaming, including the occasional f'off).

Good point.
Echo chambers are useful in a recording studio.
Though I myself would prefer this place not turn into one.

[flynn]

So I was at a happy hour and a couple of colleagues brought up the subject of Bitcoin out of the blue. It was all I could do to bite my tongue, none of them know I own any bitcoin and never will.

So one of them brings up the old, tired Peter Schiff argument of "Well at least Gold has intrinsic value. You can make jewelry out of it. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value."

So I look at him and casually say, "So you can make jewelry out of gold. Fair enough. So what then, gives jewelry value?"

That look on his face when his brain seemed to completely lock up for about a minute was priceless.

And then when his brain started processing again, of course comes the requisite reply, "Um, what do you mean? Because jewelry...has gold in it?"

People simply don't understand the philosophical basis for human's valuing anything. Everything is just taken for granted.

For the same purpose I use as example Picasso's paintings. It's just some dry paint on a board, total value $30, but it's worth millions. I like it because beside its price the number of picassos's paintings is limited exactly like bitcoins, and the total capitalizations are alike.

[bitebits]

Nobody is for censorship, but if you think you can have "discussion" with jbreher you are welcome to try it yourself. He just spams nonsense based on pulling what is being said out of context. That's reflected in his style of writing where he randomly quotes dozen of posts, and then using that to avoid any reasonable argument. If that kind of "discussion" is forced elsewhere it is not a loss, it's a gain IMHO.

+1 for moderators.

You can be your own moderator using the ignore button.

For the same purpose I use as example a Picasso's painting. It's just some dry paint on a board, total value $30, but it's worth millions. I like it because beside its price the number of picassos's painting is limited exactly like bitcoins, and the total capitalizations are alike.

I can make a digital copy of the Picasso painting and call it Picasso Cash. I even print the piece on an 8 times larger piece of canvas. This certainly reduces the value of the legacy Picasso painting to zero and makes me the true Picasso.

[bones261]

So I was at a happy hour and a couple of colleagues brought up the subject of Bitcoin out of the blue. It was all I could do to bite my tongue, none of them know I own any bitcoin and never will.

So one of them brings up the old, tired Peter Schiff argument of "Well at least Gold has intrinsic value. You can make jewelry out of it. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value."

So I look at him and casually say, "So you can make jewelry out of gold. Fair enough. So what then, gives jewelry value?"

That look on his face when his brain seemed to completely lock up for about a minute was priceless.

And then when his brain started processing again, of course comes the requisite reply, "Um, what do you mean? Because jewelry...has gold in it?"

People simply don't understand the philosophical basis for human's valuing anything. Everything is just taken for granted.

For the same purpose I use as example a Picasso's painting. It's just some dry paint on a board, total value $30, but it's worth millions. I like it because beside its price the number of picassos's painting is limited exactly like bitcoins, and the total capitalizations are alike.

You should have picked a less prolific painter for your analogy than Picasso. Once his painting became a cash cow for him, the quality of his work really went downhill.

[Ibian]

Nobody is for censorship, but if you think you can have "discussion" with jbreher you are welcome to try it yourself. He just spams nonsense based on pulling what is being said out of context. That's reflected in his style of writing where he randomly quotes dozen of posts, and then using that to avoid any reasonable argument. If that kind of "discussion" is forced elsewhere it is not a loss, it's a gain IMHO.

+1 for moderators.

You can be your own moderator using the ignore button.

It is not useful to allow dishonest people to operate in a rules based environment where the ultimate foundation of the entire project is honesty.

Bitcoin is whatever the consensus mechanism decides it is. That was the original idea and one of the foundational pillars of what makes bitcoin as an idea able to function at all, and the result is in. Continuing to complain about it, and even going to far as to split the blockchain in two, is nothing short of an attempt to undermine bitcoin as a whole. They are enemies, not only of the personal wealth of many of us here, but far more importantly they are enemies of a lifeboat for countless millions of people when the economy collapses. They are, in a word, evil, right down to their core.

[jojo69]

so jbreher is censored but ruphej is allowed to post less than zero value annoyances every other post...makes total sense 

If the small block argument is so weak that it can't withstand some erudite scrutiny perhaps I need to look elsewhere for the truth.

[Ludwig Von]

Nobody is for censorship, but if you think you can have "discussion" with jbreher you are welcome to try it yourself. He just spams nonsense based on pulling what is being said out of context. That's reflected in his style of writing where he randomly quotes dozen of posts, and then using that to avoid any reasonable argument. If that kind of "discussion" is forced elsewhere it is not a loss, it's a gain IMHO.

+1 for moderators.

You can be your own moderator using the ignore button.

For the same purpose I use as example a Picasso's painting. It's just some dry paint on a board, total value $30, but it's worth millions. I like it because beside its price the number of picassos's painting is limited exactly like bitcoins, and the total capitalizations are alike.

I can make a digital copy of the Picasso painting and call it Picasso Cash. I even print the piece on an 8 times larger piece of canvas. This certainly reduces the value of the legacy Picasso painting to zero and makes me the true Picasso.

Mostly falsifications only push the value of the original upwards. In a few rare known cases, they are estimated on their technical perfection, with an intrinsic value of their own.

[bitebits]

You can be your own moderator using the ignore button.

It is not useful to allow dishonest people to operate in a rules based environment where the ultimate foundation of the entire project is honesty.

Bitcoin is whatever the consensus mechanism decides it is. That was the original idea and one of the foundational pillars of what makes bitcoin as an idea able to function at all, and the result is in. Continuing to complain about it, and even going to far as to split the blockchain in two, is nothing short of an attempt to undermine bitcoin as a whole. They are enemies, not only of the personal wealth of many of us here, but far more importantly they are enemies of a lifeboat for countless millions of people when the economy collapses. They are, in a word, evil, right down to their core.

Not sure how to reach consensus when you just shut people up that don't agree with your vision. All these opposing views, forks and altcoins make Bitcoin stronger. Bitcoin does not need protection. It needs to battle all kind of storms to harden up: we have seen nothing yet.

And in the end there is always the ignore button. Neither Bitcoin or I have any need for anyone deciding what we can or can't read or say.

[Ibian]

so jbreher is censored but ruphej is allowed to post less than zero value annoyances every other post...makes total sense 

If the small block argument is so weak that it can't withstand some erudite scrutiny perhaps I need to look elsewhere for the truth.

Sophism is the opposite of philosophy.

[rolling]

It is not useful to allow dishonest people to operate in a rules based environment where the ultimate foundation of the entire project is honesty.

Bitcoin is whatever the consensus mechanism decides it is. That was the original idea and one of the foundational pillars of what makes bitcoin as an idea able to function at all, and the result is in. Continuing to complain about it, and even going to far as to split the blockchain in two, is nothing short of an attempt to undermine bitcoin as a whole. They are enemies, not only of the personal wealth of many of us here, but far more importantly they are enemies of a lifeboat for countless millions of people when the economy collapses. They are, in a word, evil, right down to their core.

I agree. Consensus is very hard to achieve which guarantees very little change happens and change that is controversial never happens.

[AlcoHoDL]

This weekend's battle appears to be much less intense than the previous one. It seems that the majority of current BTC owners are genuine investors and HoDLers, and are not here to play the BTC/BCH/airdrop game. This strengthens the BTC side, and attracts more genuine investors that buy away the small dips that appear. Come Monday, a new BTC pump will surely restore the weekend's lost ground and take us to new heights, a string of ATHs, and eventually into 5-digit territory at the end of the year. This will be the t-0 for the rocket launch.

Go BTC go!

About jbreher's posts, I also think they shouldn't have been deleted. As much as I disagree with him, I like reading his way of thinking and don't mind his posts. If I don't want to read them or any other's posts, I just scroll down... I think the removal of posts should be reserved only for seriously offensive material.

[Ibian]

About jbreher's posts, I also think they shouldn't have been deleted. As much as I disagree with him, I like reading his way of thinking and don't mind his posts. If I don't want to read them or any other's posts, I just scroll down... I think the removal of posts should be reserved only for seriously offensive material.

It is not even about him specifically, but about people like him. The sooner we start identifying and shutting down people who want to damage bitcoin the better for the rest of us. Even if many of you don't see why this would be important. You can't win a war if you deliberately handicap yourself.

[Dabs]

They can always participate in other threads, those have different mods. This one is particularly special. And again, they are free to launch their own threads. He already did and it's self moderated too.

[drbrockcoin]

I heard a great quote the other day on a podcast, made me laugh.

The speaker said that the world current social events unfolding was "You know, like in that movie 'They Live'.... but instead of just the protagonist having the sunglasses, suddenly everyone has a pair."  

Ahhh such a classic film, along with Network

[vroom]

Could it be...

Any curse of oak island fans here? Season 5 just started!

if you don't know Oak Island, check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island_mystery

edit: oh, to make it somehow related. I bet the big mystery of oak island is satoshis private key hidden deep inside of the money pit.

[gembitz]

Could it be...

Any curse of oak island fans here? Season 5 just started!

if you don't know Oak Island, check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island_mystery

edit: oh, to make it somehow related. I bet the big mystery of oak island is satoshis private key hidden deep inside of the money pit.

when is wikipedia going to start accepting bitcoin for donations? hmmm?     ~n00bs

[infofront]

I've only deleted a handful of his posts.

This has taken a lot of self control over the months. I always cringe when he posts because virtually every post is a direct or indirect attack on bitcoin, or a promotion of BCH.
He does sometimes have legitimate points, but they don't need to be repeated ad nauseam. Also, the thread was never about altcoins. As I mentioned in an earlier post, he has a somewhat privileged position in this thread due to his length of time participating in it, and his relatively thoughtful posts.

During busy times, I often have a few messages asking me to review certain posts, so I take those suggestions into consideration as well.

I'll also be the first to admit that I may be a less than stellar moderator.