Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[bitserve]

Not all of us are suffering from an embarrassment of riches.  

Just HODL. You will soon join the suffering.

If and when that happens, the "cheap tx fee" will be the equivalent of $500.  

If I have a few millions I would be okay with that too.

No matter how many millions I might have sometime in the future. $500 is still a lot of money.

One thing is defending LN is the real scaling solution vs linear block size increase -although they are both compatible-, and another very different one using the argument that with current prices fees are reasonable. They are not. That's wrong. Fees are too expensive already.

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[gentlemand]

I wonder what would be more shocking to a pre April 2013 Bitcoiner transported to this thread, the current price or certain fees that cost more than a whole coin did back then.

[Arriemoller]

Alright, so it's clear that bitcoins future trading at CME will be rolling out in approximately 3 hours and 5 minutes from now. Things are going to get interesting, I don't know why but I'm sensing $22k-$25k within first couple of hours. CBOE is nothing like CME, CME has a much larger volume than CBOE. So we can go more wilder than before.

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/bitcoin_contract_specifications.html

Are they cash settled as well? If they are I don't think it will move the market at all.

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

Not all of us are suffering from an embarrassment of riches.  

Just HODL. You will soon join the suffering.

If and when that happens, the "cheap tx fee" will be the equivalent of $500.  

If I have a few millions I would be okay with that too.

No matter how many millions I might have sometime in the future. $500 is still a lot of money.

One thing is defending LN is the real scaling solution vs linear block size increase -although they are both compatible-, and another very different one using the argument that with current prices fees are reasonable. They are not. That's wrong. Fees are too expensive currently.

Agreed, it ticks me off when people act like we shouldn't strive to do better (and the devs, they are striving as we speak).

[explorer]

From Bittrex Twitter:  

We've upgraded the servers again.  We exceeded the previous cap of 500k concurrent users.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

500k concurrent users?? Wow. Really. Wow.

Wasn't Poloniex dying a few months ago with 40,000 online all at once? Big step up.

That now kind of shits on the 'there's a couple of million bitcoin users' that is often cherished. What's going out there and who are they all?

Polo cruising easily at that altitude now, though.  Just the usual hiccups 

[BancoBFC]

In other news, fiat waiting to be coins is still increasing and available coins decreasing. There's 5 million in cash alone just above 120 (where we were 36 hours ago) just waiting to get in.

At this point I think 170 by week end is not unrealistic.

[bones261]

Yes, no room for the poor here.

Ponder this: Lightning network requires you to open a channel (high fees) and close a channel ( high fees ). Bob and Alice are not going to be buying coffee. I am not going to be using Lightning. I am going to pay 100-500 dollar transaction fees and buy a boat or a house or just sit on Bitcoin.

I'm not sure what country you live in, but in order to buy a boat or house you most probably will need to convert your BTC to fiat.  This transaction is liable to be a taxable event, and the government will bend you over and extract their exorbitant taxes. If you try to evade this, the will outright rape you with taxes and penalties if you get caught. If you are fortunate enough to live in a country that wouldn't tax this. Good for you.

[Heater]

How much time left in launch of bitcoin at CME? Any idea guys?

http://coincountdown.live/

Please ignore the link above - I posted it without checking and it's clearly wrong. My sincere apologies.

[nikauforest]

Yes, no room for the poor here.

Ponder this: Lightning network requires you to open a channel (high fees) and close a channel ( high fees ). Bob and Alice are not going to be buying coffee. I am not going to be using Lightning. I am going to pay 100-500 dollar transaction fees and buy a boat or a house or just sit on Bitcoin.

I'm not sure what country you live in, but in order to buy a boat or house you most probably will need to convert your BTC to fiat.  This transaction is liable to be a taxable event, and the government will bend you over and extract their exorbitant taxes. If you try to evade this, the will outright rape you with taxes and penalties if you get caught. If you are fortunate enough to live in a country that wouldn't tax this. Good for you.

I pay my taxes, even if you do not convert to fiat it is a taxable event in many countries.

A potential flaw in Lightning is the cost to open and close a channel. The fees are high enough that the average user might find it difficult to get onto payment channels. ALso the motivation to do so by the time they roll it out might not be there.

[Punisher13142]

How much time left in launch of bitcoin at CME? Any idea guys?

http://coincountdown.live/

Please ignore the link above - I posted it without checking and it's clearly wrong. My sincere apologies.

http://endofthegame.info/

[bitserve]

Yes, no room for the poor here.

Ponder this: Lightning network requires you to open a channel (high fees) and close a channel ( high fees ). Bob and Alice are not going to be buying coffee. I am not going to be using Lightning. I am going to pay 100-500 dollar transaction fees and buy a boat or a house or just sit on Bitcoin.

I'm not sure what country you live in, but in order to buy a boat or house you most probably will need to convert your BTC to fiat.  This transaction is liable to be a taxable event, and the government will bend you over and extract their exorbitant taxes. If you try to evade this, the will outright rape you with taxes and penalties if you get caught. If you are fortunate enough to live in a country that wouldn't tax this. Good for you.

In most countries, you don't need to convert to FIAT to be a taxable event. Even if you buy a house with Bitcoin, the purchase will be taxed at market value of both assets AND if market value of the Bitcoin used is higher than when you bought it you will also have to pay an additional tax for capital gains on the Bitcoin used. It never had anything to do with physically/virtually converting to FIAT as an intermediary step.

Otherwise, most people would use that way to never pay capital gains, always swapping assets instead.

There are things that you could buy with Bitcoin without anyone ever noticing you did (and thus the possibility to evade taxes)... houses, registered vehicles, etc are not among those.

[Vin]

How much time left in launch of bitcoin at CME? Any idea guys?

http://coincountdown.live/

Please ignore the link above - I posted it without checking and it's clearly wrong. My sincere apologies.

Maybe try this one

http://endofthegame.info/

Edit: Too late, sorry.

[milkshock100]

Gentlemen I sense an ath in the air...

[bones261]

Yes, no room for the poor here.

Ponder this: Lightning network requires you to open a channel (high fees) and close a channel ( high fees ). Bob and Alice are not going to be buying coffee. I am not going to be using Lightning. I am going to pay 100-500 dollar transaction fees and buy a boat or a house or just sit on Bitcoin.

I'm not sure what country you live in, but in order to buy a boat or house you most probably will need to convert your BTC to fiat.  This transaction is liable to be a taxable event, and the government will bend you over and extract their exorbitant taxes. If you try to evade this, the will outright rape you with taxes and penalties if you get caught. If you are fortunate enough to live in a country that wouldn't tax this. Good for you.

In most countries, you don't need to convert to FIAT to be a taxable event. Even if you buy a house with Bitcoin, the purchase will be taxed at market value of both assets AND if market value of the Bitcoin used is higher than when you bought it you will also have to pay an additional tax for capital gains on the Bitcoin used. It never had anything to do with physically converting to FIAT as an intermediary step.

There are things that you could buy with Bitcoin without anyone ever noticing you did (and thus the possibility to evade taxes)... houses, registered vehicles, etc are not among those.

Then it is even worse than I projected. Fuck the governments.

[gentlemand]

Gentlemen I sense an ath in the air...

About as common as one of my guffs these days.

[milkshock100]

It’s not enough for bitcoin to succeed.

Eth and ltc must fail as well, and btc must feast upon their rotting carcasses.

[fabiorem]

Then it is even worse than I projected. Fuck the governments.

Actually a house is not really yours. It belongs to the State. If you dont pay your taxes, they just take it and throw you out, like in a rent.

What you pay when you think you are buying a house, is a permission from the State to reside there.

[jojo69]

Gee, you nouveau riche are worse than the old money. No wonder the aristocracy always looked down upon you.

Shoo shoo. Away with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vXurSgwgWU

[HairyMaclairy]

It’s not enough for bitcoin to succeed.

Eth and ltc must fail as well.

Bollocks.  Theres plenty of room at the table for all.  

[Wekkel]

It’s not enough for bitcoin to succeed.

Eth and ltc must fail as well, and btc must feast upon their rotting carcasses.

"EUR and JPY must fail for USD to succeed."

Perhaps you should think this over.