Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BitChick]

How do you wipe out your paper money? Did he not keep enough to maintain his lifestyle stashed away in secure assets and went on a reckless spending spree?

There are tons of ways to lose BTC over time, scams like Trendon Shavers, Friedcat, Butterfly Labs; getting Zhou Tonged, Goxxed or Bitfinexed; more often than not, lost it in some ALT pump-and-dump or daytrading.  But quite often, simply because people can't afford to hodl and had to sell to paid expenses/debt or emergencies.  So it is actually quite difficult not to make wrong calls along the way that sees one's own BTC holding reduced substantially.  Fortunately, due to exponential rise in fiat terms, people normally end up with more, in fiat terms, than years ago.  But that still leaves a bitter taste for some as they know that they would have substantially more BTC had this and that not happened along the way.  

Yep, there are a variety of scenarios that could cause bitterness, and let's say if you were in BTC for 3-4 years and you end up buying around 100 BTC and it cost you around $600 per BTC (average) (which would have been about a $60k investment), but then you make some pretty severe mistakes including some of the ones that you mentioned and even hackings or something, and you end up losing 80% of your built up stash.

At today's BTC prices you still have 20BTC x $19,000 = $380,000, and you are 6x in the profits, but you might still feel a bit bitter about the whole ordeal.

Overall, any of us can assess our current situation and continue to make plans that involve continuing to dollar cost average buy into bitcoin, unless we happen to be at the liquidation stage of our life - which, depending on health, might be someone in his/her 60s or 70s?.. and then in those circumstances, we might project how long we think that we have to live, and then schedule a draw down schedule based on such a projected timeline.. and sure the bigger of the two tragedies would be to draw to much and run out of money early rather than to have a considerable amount remaining upon death.

I think all of us who have been involved with BTC for a long period of time have some sort of regrets.  We could certainly lose some sleep over the "Would have, should have, and could have" thoughts that race through our minds.  Hey, even after hodling for several years and avoiding having our coins lost on Gox (got them off just a few weeks earlier) my husband and I still had some coins swiped a few weeks ago just trying to move them onto Coinbase to sell using Bitcoin QT.  We double and triple checked the address we were sending them to as well (never had a single problem) but the address was totally changed behind the scenes somehow.  We decided to do everything we could to protect what coins we have remaining.  We purchased an entirely new computer and didn't even connect it to our network and used our backup disk to load the coins onto it and bought a Trezor.  I guess there is a feature on the Trezor where we can check the address being sent to on the Trezor itself for security.  That is necessary we now can see.  We had several people ask why we didn't send a very small amount of coin first.  Well, since we never had any problems and this computer that my husband uses is checked repeatedly for viruses and I don't even allow myself on it (I don't trust myself to go to sites that might access a virus of some sort) we just trusted it was fine as it always had been.  But the hacks are becoming more sophisticated.

[JayJuanGee]

I like this idea of progression.  So perhaps, each of us are starting at a different place on the spectrum, and perhaps bitcoin can assist us to move up on the spectrum, depending upon how much we have been able to accumulate and how good we are at HODL.


So maybe I will put these in a slightly different order than you, AlcoHoDL.....


So here it is, perhaps 12 levels could accommodate most of us and show some progression in our financial well-being (especially if we did the right thing in regards to buying, accumulating and hodling bitcoin):

First we start at:

1) supported by the parents

2) living paycheck to paycheck,

3) having a bit of a reserve and using that reserve to invest in bitcoin

4) getting by with a cushion

5) comfortable

6) sassy and splurging a bit

7) well off

moderately rich

9) rich

10) wealthy

11) this is gentlemen

12) filthy rich

Can we quantify these levels?

There's a "Don't use smileys." additional option(s...) by the way.

Sure the quantities would be different for each person, and could even lead us into prolonged arguments.  It would not hurt for anyone to punch-in their numbers for these categories - or even add or subtract categories that might help to illustrate differing perceptions.

On a personal level, I have been pretty frugal my whole life, in terms of attempting to "live within my means," so as I have passed through the categories, and more rapidly in recent times, almost any category has been comfortable for me, and probably before I was in bitcoin, I perceive that I was mostly in between 6 and 7, and perhaps now, after about 4 years of bitcoin (and more than one year of beyond expectation BTC performance) I would consider myself between 9 and 10, and I would have likely remained content in the 6-7 territory for the rest of my life - that is if I would have been able to remain in that category absent bitcoin and absent knowing exactly what life calamities could have befallen me or any person at any time.

[Rosewater Foundation]

my husband and I still had some coins swiped a few weeks ago just trying to move them onto Coinbase to sell using Bitcoin QT.  We double and triple checked the address we were sending them to as well (never had a single problem) but the address was totally changed behind the scenes somehow.  We decided to do everything we could to protect what coins we have remaining.

Wow. Cautionary tale.

[JayJuanGee]

I like to think of Bitcoin as the AOL of Blockchain tech. Wow, AOL was awesome in the 1990's when everyone logged in with a modem.(AOL was also a darling of the market for some time. )  I am just saying Bitcoin is not a religion for me. Bitcoin prices will continue higher and blow most peoples minds. As an investor I try to keep an open mind. As hard as AOL tried to maintain dominance it eventually became less relevant.

Don't get me wrong I am a HODLer 'for now'.

You are coming off as a bit of a corporate shill with all your mainstream (and altcoin pumper) nonsensical and superficial talking points. 

Many of us in this thread seem to get annoyed with that kind of repetitive dribble that tends to come from trolls, newbies, and/or posters who don't know what the fuck they are talking about that gets caught up with faulty historical analogies, attempts to portray some kind of supposed deep understanding and wisdom of bitcoin, and tries to suggest that there is some kind of ongoing looming threat that is going to replace bitcoin. 

Why don't we cross one step at a time rather than getting caught up in hypothetical doom and gloom for bitcoin, alt coin pumping nonsense?  Do you even understand bitcoin and the fact that bitcoin is the dog wagging the tail rather than the other way around?  We do not have a bunch of equals out there, at least not currently and nothing even looming, even though there are attacks on bitcoin and there are regular ongoing nonsensical FUD spreading talking points.

[nikauforest]

I like to think of Bitcoin as the AOL of Blockchain tech. Wow, AOL was awesome in the 1990's when everyone logged in with a modem.(AOL was also a darling of the market for some time. )  I am just saying Bitcoin is not a religion for me. Bitcoin prices will continue higher and blow most peoples minds. As an investor I try to keep an open mind. As hard as AOL tried to maintain dominance it eventually became less relevant.

Don't get me wrong I am a HODLer 'for now'.

You are coming off as a bit of a corporate shill with all your mainstream (and altcoin pumper) nonsensical and superficial talking points. 

Many of us in this thread seem to get annoyed with that kind of repetitive dribble that tends to come from trolls, newbies, and/or posters who don't know what the fuck they are talking about that gets caught up with faulty historical analogies, attempts to portray some kind of supposed deep understanding and wisdom of bitcoin, and tries to suggest that there is some kind of ongoing looming threat that is going to replace bitcoin. 

Why don't we cross one step at a time rather than getting caught up in hypothetical doom and gloom for bitcoin, alt coin pumping nonsense?  Do you even understand bitcoin and the fact that bitcoin is the dog wagging the tail rather than the other way around?  We do not have a bunch of equals out there, at least not currently and nothing even looming, even though there are attacks on bitcoin and there are regular ongoing nonsensical FUD spreading talking points.

I am the furthest thing from a corporate shill. I am just saying everything has a life cycle.
Mick Jagger and AOL

[gentlemand]

I am the furthest thing from a corporate shill. I am just saying everything has a life cycle.
Mick Jagger and AOL

But Mick's still busy impregnating people.

[nikauforest]

I am the furthest thing from a corporate shill. I am just saying everything has a life cycle.
Mick Jagger and AOL

But Mick's still busy impregnating people.

How true!

[bones261]

Why I am sort of kicking myself is that it already occurred to me a month ago with my ISP e-mail that I use for everything is a single point of failure. I had already used Thunderbird on my local computer to download my e-mail and then went to my ISP and deleted all the e-mail. I did this so if someone got access, they couldn't just view my inbox and gather what other sights they can now reset my password with. Naturally, I don't do this everyday; however, so stuff still accumulates in the inbox.I'm still debating whether or not it is worth it to now create upteen different e-mails and assign them to my upteen different accounts. What a hassle.

[JayJuanGee]

I like to think of Bitcoin as the AOL of Blockchain tech. Wow, AOL was awesome in the 1990's when everyone logged in with a modem.(AOL was also a darling of the market for some time. )  I am just saying Bitcoin is not a religion for me. Bitcoin prices will continue higher and blow most peoples minds. As an investor I try to keep an open mind. As hard as AOL tried to maintain dominance it eventually became less relevant.

Don't get me wrong I am a HODLer 'for now'.

You are coming off as a bit of a corporate shill with all your mainstream (and altcoin pumper) nonsensical and superficial talking points. 

Many of us in this thread seem to get annoyed with that kind of repetitive dribble that tends to come from trolls, newbies, and/or posters who don't know what the fuck they are talking about that gets caught up with faulty historical analogies, attempts to portray some kind of supposed deep understanding and wisdom of bitcoin, and tries to suggest that there is some kind of ongoing looming threat that is going to replace bitcoin. 

Why don't we cross one step at a time rather than getting caught up in hypothetical doom and gloom for bitcoin, alt coin pumping nonsense?  Do you even understand bitcoin and the fact that bitcoin is the dog wagging the tail rather than the other way around?  We do not have a bunch of equals out there, at least not currently and nothing even looming, even though there are attacks on bitcoin and there are regular ongoing nonsensical FUD spreading talking points.

I am the furthest thing from a corporate shill. I am just saying everything has a life cycle.
Mick Jagger and AOL

Sure everything has a life cycle, but so what? 

Bitcoin's life cycle could take hundreds of years to play out, and then why the fuck would it matter to many of us?  Some of us might have 100 years left on this planet, but likely the average is less than 50 years for folks participating in this thread, even if some of us happen to be more younger whipper snappers than others.

[nikauforest]

I like to think of Bitcoin as the AOL of Blockchain tech. Wow, AOL was awesome in the 1990's when everyone logged in with a modem.(AOL was also a darling of the market for some time. )  I am just saying Bitcoin is not a religion for me. Bitcoin prices will continue higher and blow most peoples minds. As an investor I try to keep an open mind. As hard as AOL tried to maintain dominance it eventually became less relevant.

Don't get me wrong I am a HODLer 'for now'.

You are coming off as a bit of a corporate shill with all your mainstream (and altcoin pumper) nonsensical and superficial talking points. 

Many of us in this thread seem to get annoyed with that kind of repetitive dribble that tends to come from trolls, newbies, and/or posters who don't know what the fuck they are talking about that gets caught up with faulty historical analogies, attempts to portray some kind of supposed deep understanding and wisdom of bitcoin, and tries to suggest that there is some kind of ongoing looming threat that is going to replace bitcoin. 

Why don't we cross one step at a time rather than getting caught up in hypothetical doom and gloom for bitcoin, alt coin pumping nonsense?  Do you even understand bitcoin and the fact that bitcoin is the dog wagging the tail rather than the other way around?  We do not have a bunch of equals out there, at least not currently and nothing even looming, even though there are attacks on bitcoin and there are regular ongoing nonsensical FUD spreading talking points.

I am the furthest thing from a corporate shill. I am just saying everything has a life cycle.
Mick Jagger and AOL

Sure everything has a life cycle, but so what? 

Bitcoin's life cycle could take hundreds of years to play out, and then why the fuck would it matter to many of us?  Some of us might have 100 years left on this planet, but likely the average is less than 50 years for folks participating in this thread, even if some of us happen to be more younger whipper snappers than others.

Fair enough. I will not argue with that. BTW I joined this forum 3 weeks after you. I just don't post as much as you. Number of posts do not equal knowledge.

[marcus_of_augustus]

I think it may be time for some retaliation attacks against Wu and Antpool who have demonstrably become malicious miners, attacking the bitcoin network.

They are withholding blocks, spamming the network to drive up fees and being a general nuisance to the point that if they were excluded from the mining network it would do more good than harm to bitcoin. They are doing everything in their power to subvert the network, without performing the 51% attack which they may actually be capable of.

https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/

In short, someone needs to fuck these guys over seriously. It's well past time.

[deepcolderwallet]

As soon as the alts start to ease the tide will swing back to Bitcoin. But it will be a flood.

Same as it ever was.

Let's hope that tide swings back soon.

Bitcoin Dominance compared to all cryptos is in a bear market. There is a firm downtrend line.

Image?


Chart for Bitcoin Dominance. Scroll Down to the bottom of the page. Shows the down trend. I am not saying that alts have performed better. ( They have NOT!) What I am saying is that over time Bitcoin will become less important overall relative to all the improvements this tech will bring humanity.
https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/

Oh come on!
Back in the beginning of the year BTC dominance was less than 30%!
Soon there will be no alts.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

I think it may be time for some retaliation attacks against Wu and Antpool who have demonstrably become malicious miners, attacking the bitcoin network.

They are withholding blocks, spamming the network to drive up fees and being a general nuisance to the point that if they were excluded from the mining network it would do more good than harm to bitcoin. They are doing everything in their power to subvert the network, without performing the 51% attack which they may actually be capable of.

https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/

In short, someone needs to fuck these guys over seriously. It's well past time.

I really wouldn't mind seeing that. But the next best thing seems to be the new ASIC providers that are starting up. Would be nice if there were more of them though.

[explorer]

Fair enough. I will not argue with that. BTW I joined this forum 3 weeks after you. I just don't post as much as you. Number of posts do not equal knowledge.

2 ears, one mouth.  There's a reason, but many never figure it out.

[OWZ1337]

I think it may be time for some retaliation attacks against Wu and Antpool who have demonstrably become malicious miners, attacking the bitcoin network.

They are withholding blocks, spamming the network to drive up fees and being a general nuisance to the point that if they were excluded from the mining network it would do more good than harm to bitcoin. They are doing everything in their power to subvert the network, without performing the 51% attack which they may actually be capable of.

https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/

In short, someone needs to fuck these guys over seriously. It's well past time.

I really wouldn't mind seeing that. But the next best thing seems to be the new ASIC providers that are starting up. Would be nice if there were more of them though.

asics are dead brah you can't mine corns no more!!  lol

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

I think it may be time for some retaliation attacks against Wu and Antpool who have demonstrably become malicious miners, attacking the bitcoin network.

They are withholding blocks, spamming the network to drive up fees and being a general nuisance to the point that if they were excluded from the mining network it would do more good than harm to bitcoin. They are doing everything in their power to subvert the network, without performing the 51% attack which they may actually be capable of.

https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/

In short, someone needs to fuck these guys over seriously. It's well past time.

I really wouldn't mind seeing that. But the next best thing seems to be the new ASIC providers that are starting up. Would be nice if there were more of them though.

asics are dead brah you can't mine corns no more!!  lol

Does the popcorn just grow straight on the cob now?

[deepcolderwallet]

Why I am sort of kicking myself is that it already occurred to me a month ago with my ISP e-mail that I use for everything is a single point of failure. I had already used Thunderbird on my local computer to download my e-mail and then went to my ISP and deleted all the e-mail. I did this so if someone got access, they couldn't just view my inbox and gather what other sights they can now reset my password with. Naturally, I don't do this everyday; however, so stuff still accumulates in the inbox.I'm still debating whether or not it is worth it to now create upteen different e-mails and assign them to my upteen different accounts. What a hassle.

Just register to protonmail.ch and never worry again.

[bitserve]

Talking about another related thing... Many people here not only hodl but also frequently trade. For that you have to have some "active" amount permanently available in exchanges.

At the beginning of the year, my trading amount was around 30%, split between several exchanges. As the price has been growing I have been gradually withdrawing coins to cold storage so as to maintain "safe" levels (in fiat valuation) at the -risky- exchanges. Now I would say my active trading amount is less than 10% of the total (whilst several times bigger in fiat valuation than at the beginning of 2017). Also I have been reducing my individual orders in coin amounts (many orders of fractions of btc to be more precise)

Now I think my (relatively reduced) trading is logically starting to have a very small impact on the growth of my stash in coins terms. I am even considering stopping trading altogether and just employ the free time in other more satisfying activities (I am starting to feel a bit burned of it).

Anyone else feels the same or is it just me?

[JayJuanGee]

I like to think of Bitcoin as the AOL of Blockchain tech. Wow, AOL was awesome in the 1990's when everyone logged in with a modem.(AOL was also a darling of the market for some time. )  I am just saying Bitcoin is not a religion for me. Bitcoin prices will continue higher and blow most peoples minds. As an investor I try to keep an open mind. As hard as AOL tried to maintain dominance it eventually became less relevant.

Don't get me wrong I am a HODLer 'for now'.

You are coming off as a bit of a corporate shill with all your mainstream (and altcoin pumper) nonsensical and superficial talking points. 

Many of us in this thread seem to get annoyed with that kind of repetitive dribble that tends to come from trolls, newbies, and/or posters who don't know what the fuck they are talking about that gets caught up with faulty historical analogies, attempts to portray some kind of supposed deep understanding and wisdom of bitcoin, and tries to suggest that there is some kind of ongoing looming threat that is going to replace bitcoin. 

Why don't we cross one step at a time rather than getting caught up in hypothetical doom and gloom for bitcoin, alt coin pumping nonsense?  Do you even understand bitcoin and the fact that bitcoin is the dog wagging the tail rather than the other way around?  We do not have a bunch of equals out there, at least not currently and nothing even looming, even though there are attacks on bitcoin and there are regular ongoing nonsensical FUD spreading talking points.

I am the furthest thing from a corporate shill. I am just saying everything has a life cycle.
Mick Jagger and AOL

Sure everything has a life cycle, but so what? 

Bitcoin's life cycle could take hundreds of years to play out, and then why the fuck would it matter to many of us?  Some of us might have 100 years left on this planet, but likely the average is less than 50 years for folks participating in this thread, even if some of us happen to be more younger whipper snappers than others.

Fair enough. I will not argue with that. BTW I joined this forum 3 weeks after you. I just don't post as much as you. Number of posts do not equal knowledge.

I am not claiming to have any kind of knowledge based on my number of posts, and so in the end, I still stick by the substantive assertions of my earlier responses, and if anyone is making assertions that seem to rhyme with troll talking points, then red flags are going to be raised. 

Surely, merely because your earlier post may have raised red flags, it does not mean that you are a troll and perhaps you have elaborated sufficiently in order that some of the guys (and gal) here can get to know you better.

Also, I understand that following this particular thread can be nearly a full time job too, especially if there is a lot of action going on in BTC price movements, and a large number of guys and even gals either do not have that amount of time or they are interested in other topics that take up their time... no problem with that.

[nikauforest]

Hey JayJuanGee
All good, we are good. You and I are here for the same reasons.