Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

Yeah, every trade is a taxable event to US persons. Whether that is buying coffee or litecoin. It is property according to the IRS.

Even if you thought you could get away with the like kind exchange rule, you still have to report every trade individually on the exemption form.

If it were classified as a stock, you could just report net gains and losses but not so with property.

They have made compliance nearly impossible so unless someone passes a law to exempt transactions prior to a certain date, a lot of people are going to owe back taxes and penalties if not jail time.

Simple solution: Become an expat.

Not so easy or simple, unfortunately. Have you heard of the Exit Tax? Capital gains are realized for high net worth individuals upon renouncing.

You still owe cap gains if you don't renounce and just expat. Unless you plan on just hiding and never setting foot in US again nor using any international banks cooperating with FinCen rules.

Puerto Rico offers tax free cap gains for residents, but you still owe on any gains realized up to the date you become a resident.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/02/27/renounce-u-s-heres-how-irs-computes-exit-tax/#45c8627287d4

No, I actually haven't heard of the exit tax. It does make sense to some degree, or at least it would if taxes were legitimate in the first place. But regardless of whether or not you'd choose to pay what you "owe" before renouncing, it still doesn't sound like anyone who expects any significant profits should be staying in the US any longer than absolutely necessary for whatever individual circumstances.

Agreed. However, I'm suspecting you're not married or have many close family relations in the US? The moment I brought up renouncing to my wife, and that she would need to apply for visas to visit family, friends, etc., well... you can imagine the response. Although she's warming up to it proportionally to crypto value.

Which begs the question, how much is US citizenship worth? A US passport gets you in a lot of places without visas or trouble. Attaining citizenship in another country takes time and often a good deal of (traceable, taxable) fiat. Although being stateless is an option, it's not recommended for long. You have no rights, anywhere.

Can't your wife just live with you while you "make all the money" as a renounced citizen? That way you wouldn't have to tax your profits, and she could visit her relatives without any issues.

And no, I don't live in the US so that's not a concern for me. And my family would follow me blindly if I asked them to and told them that I'd take care of everything.

And really, considering that the lowest CGT rate is 20% in the US I'd take the money and apply for visas over keeping citizenship to a mess of a country. There are other countries that have "free passes" to most relevant places and low taxes too, although I don't know how difficult it would be for an US citizen to get citizenship there. I'd imagine it can't be too bad.

[404Revolution]

The United States has already lost a great deal of their intelligent, (often) young, bright minds because of these ludicrously oppressive tax decisions. This will continue and i reccomend every single citizen of the United States to expatriate.

The liberty that they claim to offer is nowhere to be found.

[HI-TEC99]

I didn't think bitcoin could be this volatile with the size of market cap it has now. I was wrong. It's going haywire right now!

Bigger market cap, but possibly fewer coins in the float, definitely 1/2 the new coins mined per block.  Land Rush in progress.  It's just that the train is over full, and can't make the grade, so it has to shake like a wet dog, and try again, with MORE STEAM.

Maybe in another few years it will be going up and down by $100k a week and $10k movements will go unnoticed.

[HairyMaclairy]

Yeah, every trade is a taxable event to US persons. Whether that is buying coffee or litecoin. It is property according to the IRS.

Even if you thought you could get away with the like kind exchange rule, you still have to report every trade individually on the exemption form.

If it were classified as a stock, you could just report net gains and losses but not so with property.

They have made compliance nearly impossible so unless someone passes a law to exempt transactions prior to a certain date, a lot of people are going to owe back taxes and penalties if not jail time.

Simple solution: Become an expat.

Not so easy or simple, unfortunately. Have you heard of the Exit Tax? Capital gains are realized for high net worth individuals upon renouncing.

You still owe cap gains if you don't renounce and just expat. Unless you plan on just hiding and never setting foot in US again nor using any international banks cooperating with FinCen rules.

Puerto Rico offers tax free cap gains for residents, but you still owe on any gains realized up to the date you become a resident.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/02/27/renounce-u-s-heres-how-irs-computes-exit-tax/#45c8627287d4

No, I actually haven't heard of the exit tax. It does make sense to some degree, or at least it would if taxes were legitimate in the first place. But regardless of whether or not you'd choose to pay what you "owe" before renouncing, it still doesn't sound like anyone who expects any significant profits should be staying in the US any longer than absolutely necessary for whatever individual circumstances.

Agreed. However, I'm suspecting you're not married or have many close family relations in the US? The moment I brought up renouncing to my wife, and that she would need to apply for visas to visit family, friends, etc., well... you can imagine the response. Although she's warming up to it proportionally to crypto value.

Which begs the question, how much is US citizenship worth? A US passport gets you in a lot of places without visas or trouble. Attaining citizenship in another country takes time and often a good deal of (traceable, taxable) fiat. Although being stateless is an option, it's not recommended for long. You have no rights, anywhere.

I think you can buy New Zealand citizenship and that will get you anywhere US citizenship will.  You can go buy mountain in Queenstown with all the hedge fund billionaires.

[realr0ach]

Agreed. However, I'm suspecting you're not married or have many close family relations in the US? The moment I brought up renouncing to my wife, and that she would need to apply for visas to visit family, friends, etc., well... you can imagine the response.

Every day I am bombarded by facts illustrating the US is a gynocentric empire of nothingness.  There's probably no point even educating women in the first place, because even if they learn some type of skill to generate a living, it actually makes them upset to do so and they find no purpose in life without attempting to extort resources from men instead.  The mind of a woman literally is the mind of a prostitute.  They have no idea what to do with their lives if they accidentally acquire resources using a non-prostitution method.

Case in point, a 17yr old woman in the UK won the lottery then claimed it made her unhappy because she no longer had any type of purpose and then she attempted to sue the govt for giving her the money:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/she-won-more-than-a-million-dollars-in-the-lottery-and-shes-suing-the-lottery-over-it-2017-02-15

[turboblade]

I assume you are joking.

Agreed. However, I'm suspecting you're not married or have many close family relations in the US? The moment I brought up renouncing to my wife, and that she would need to apply for visas to visit family, friends, etc., well... you can imagine the response.

Every day I am bombarded by facts illustrating the US is a gynocentric empire of nothingness.  There's probably no point even educating women in the first place, because even if they learn some type of skill to generate a living, it actually makes them upset to do so and they find no purpose in life without attempting to extort resources from men instead.  The mind of a woman literally is the mind of a prostitute.  They have no idea what to do with their lives if they accidentally acquire resources using a non-prostitution method.

Case in point, a 17yr old woman in the UK won the lottery then claimed it made her unhappy because she no longer had any type of purpose and then she attempted to sue the govt for giving her the money:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/she-won-more-than-a-million-dollars-in-the-lottery-and-shes-suing-the-lottery-over-it-2017-02-15

[Dunkelheit667]

Breaking 24777$ prediction game
...
Last update for tonight

Hope we all will have a refreshing night and would like to pick:

11/02/2018 Dunkelheit667

Thanks a bunch!

[realr0ach]

Agreed. However, I'm suspecting you're not married or have many close family relations in the US? The moment I brought up renouncing to my wife, and that she would need to apply for visas to visit family, friends, etc., well... you can imagine the response.

Every day I am bombarded by facts illustrating the US is a gynocentric empire of nothingness.  There's probably no point even educating women in the first place, because even if they learn some type of skill to generate a living, it actually makes them upset to do so and they find no purpose in life without attempting to extort resources from men instead.  The mind of a woman literally is the mind of a prostitute.  They have no idea what to do with their lives if they accidentally acquire resources using a non-prostitution method.

Case in point, a 17yr old woman in the UK won the lottery then claimed it made her unhappy because she no longer had any type of purpose and then she attempted to sue the govt for giving her the money:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/she-won-more-than-a-million-dollars-in-the-lottery-and-shes-suing-the-lottery-over-it-2017-02-15

I assume you are joking.

No.  While I don't personally identify as one, the whole MGTOW movement thing is a perfectly valid response to the dynamic of an inefficient civilization ruled by prostitutes.

[itod]

Agreed. However, I'm suspecting you're not married or have many close family relations in the US? The moment I brought up renouncing to my wife, and that she would need to apply for visas to visit family, friends, etc., well... you can imagine the response.

Every day I am bombarded by facts illustrating the US is a gynocentric empire of nothingness.  There's probably no point even educating women in the first place, because even if they learn some type of skill to generate a living, it actually makes them upset to do so and they find no purpose in life without attempting to extort resources from men instead.  The mind of a woman literally is the mind of a prostitute.  They have no idea what to do with their lives if they accidentally acquire resources using a non-prostitution method.

Case in point, a 17yr old woman in the UK won the lottery then claimed it made her unhappy because she no longer had any type of purpose and then she attempted to sue the govt for giving her the money:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/she-won-more-than-a-million-dollars-in-the-lottery-and-shes-suing-the-lottery-over-it-2017-02-15

Can't believe how blind you are. She is intelligent young woman who realized what happened to her at the age she shouldn't be burdened with it. Minors should not be allowed to bet, it's so obvious why. There's a reason they are called like that.

[d_eddie]

I assume you are joking.

Agreed. However, I'm suspecting you're not married or have many close family relations in the US? The moment I brought up renouncing to my wife, and that she would need to apply for visas to visit family, friends, etc., well... you can imagine the response.

[CONDENSED RANT: educating women is pointless etc.]

Do you really? Unassume.

[TERA2]

I didn't think bitcoin could be this volatile with the size of market cap it has now. I was wrong.

[realr0ach]

I didn't think bitcoin could be this volatile with the size of market cap it has now. I was wrong.

Chart indicates 2 shakeouts before the pump, then price returns to the average of the bottom of the 1st and 2nd shakeout.  So bitcoin around $4200 incoming.  Probably won't happen till after Martin Looter Coon day.

[nikauforest]

Yeah, every trade is a taxable event to US persons. Whether that is buying coffee or litecoin. It is property according to the IRS.

Even if you thought you could get away with the like kind exchange rule, you still have to report every trade individually on the exemption form.

If it were classified as a stock, you could just report net gains and losses but not so with property.

They have made compliance nearly impossible so unless someone passes a law to exempt transactions prior to a certain date, a lot of people are going to owe back taxes and penalties if not jail time.

Simple solution: Become an expat.

Not so easy or simple, unfortunately. Have you heard of the Exit Tax? Capital gains are realized for high net worth individuals upon renouncing.

You still owe cap gains if you don't renounce and just expat. Unless you plan on just hiding and never setting foot in US again nor using any international banks cooperating with FinCen rules.

Puerto Rico offers tax free cap gains for residents, but you still owe on any gains realized up to the date you become a resident.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/02/27/renounce-u-s-heres-how-irs-computes-exit-tax/#45c8627287d4

No, I actually haven't heard of the exit tax. It does make sense to some degree, or at least it would if taxes were legitimate in the first place. But regardless of whether or not you'd choose to pay what you "owe" before renouncing, it still doesn't sound like anyone who expects any significant profits should be staying in the US any longer than absolutely necessary for whatever individual circumstances.

Agreed. However, I'm suspecting you're not married or have many close family relations in the US? The moment I brought up renouncing to my wife, and that she would need to apply for visas to visit family, friends, etc., well... you can imagine the response. Although she's warming up to it proportionally to crypto value.

Which begs the question, how much is US citizenship worth? A US passport gets you in a lot of places without visas or trouble. Attaining citizenship in another country takes time and often a good deal of (traceable, taxable) fiat. Although being stateless is an option, it's not recommended for long. You have no rights, anywhere.

I think you can buy New Zealand citizenship and that will get you anywhere US citizenship will.  You can go buy mountain in Queenstown with all the hedge fund billionaires.

New Zealand is a very nice place to live. Come on down.
https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/investing-in-nz/visas/investor-visa

[jojo69]

EEVBlog Dave has a new Trezor vs Nano comparison out

https://youtu.be/SKWYO3Qh79A

[LewisPirenne]

The rationale for this post is that bitcoin doesn't actually function as a store of value.  It's so called value is entirely based around flow and not stock.  It cannot derive value from anything besides the utility it provides to facilitate turnover in commerce.

Except for a certain country in the world, the so called "commerce/turnover" is not buying Christmas gifts for loving members of family via Bitpay, but rather paying 2~3% to "smurf" RMB over Lo Wu Custom into Hong Kong, or paying 5% min so that Triad enforcers can deposit "winnings" as Chinese casino whales at a local gold & silver "dealer/moneychanger" in Vancouver.  So paying even $1,000 per tx is like a godsend where $20K~50K is often expected for a $1 mio tx, and has been for the last 30 years.  Heck, they even recently nab some South Korean prosecutor/law-enforcement for taking in billions+ KRW "profit-sharing" so that Chinese "whales" can "arbitrage coins" from China and deposit proceed into exchanges like Bithumb in Gangnam.  

[Rosewater Foundation]

Listen, I know these are difficult times. But let's try to remain civil. Remember why we're here.

[404Revolution]

Listen, I know these are difficult times. But let's try to remain civil. Remember why we're here.

To crush souls and steal their money? Yeah, most of us seem to have forgotten.

[realr0ach]

Listen, I know these are difficult times. But let's try to remain civil. Remember why we're here.

To crush souls and steal their money? Yeah, most of us seem to have forgotten.

To make sure (((Goldman Sachs))) is left holding the bag on completely valueless, imaginary assets like bitcoin and ethereum while the goyim sell retardedly overvalued craptocurrency to buy up the whole silver and gold market.

[Rosewater Foundation]

Listen, I know these are difficult times. But let's try to remain civil. Remember why we're here.

To crush souls and steal their money? Yeah, most of us seem to have forgotten.

[TERA2]

95% of people are here for fiats.

I don't know what the hell they're thinking.

They should be shooting for lambos.