Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[barbs]

2) The word you are looking for is "fiduciary". "Fiat" means "let it be" and thus means that someone is in control.

fiat
ˈfiːat,ˈfʌɪat/
noun
1.
a formal authorization or proposition; a decree.
"the reforms left most prices fixed by government fiat"

Fiat money has been defined variously as:
any money declared by a government to be legal tender.[1]
state-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[2]
money without intrinsic value.[3][4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

are you bullish or bearish on the current bit coin price? i can't tell

[Coinseeker]

are you bullish or bearish on the current bit coin price? i can't tell

That's not surprising given the fact, we weren't talking about the price of Bitcoin.   

[Sword Smith]

2) The word you are looking for is "fiduciary". "Fiat" means "let it be" and thus means that someone is in control.

fiat
ˈfiːat,ˈfʌɪat/
noun
1.
a formal authorization or proposition; a decree.
"the reforms left most prices fixed by government fiat"

Fiat money has been defined variously as:
any money declared by a government to be legal tender.[1]
state-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[2]
money without intrinsic value.[3][4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

Ok. Arguing over definitions is usually stupid. That is a semantic discussion and what one should usually seek is a logical discussion. But I think this discussion merits some attention none the less since is important that we are able to use the right words to describe Bitcoin and bitcoins.

The word "fiat" means a decree or a dictate thus indicating a central authority. This does obviously not apply to Bitcoin or bitcoins and we should thus, in my opinion, avoid linking the word "fiat" with bitcoins.

(and the bitcoin protocol (and thus bitcoins) has intrinsic value since it can be used as a tool - namely a timestamp - just like gold can be used in electrical devices and teeth - intrinsic value. But this is a seperate discussion to the discussion of the word "fiat".)

[Coinseeker]

The word "fiat" means a decree or a dictate thus indicating a central authority. This does obviously not apply to Bitcoin or bitcoins and we should thus, in my opinion, avoid linking the word "fiat" with bitcoins.

No, I will not avoid "linking" the word fiat with Bitcoin because that is what Bitcoin or any other currency that has no intrinsic value is. Fiat.  You may not like that and even choose only the definitions that support your position, but it is what it is.  Fiat.

[barbs]

what's gox doing? stamp on a bull run, gox chilling, china going ape

[Sword Smith]

The word "fiat" means a decree or a dictate thus indicating a central authority. This does obviously not apply to Bitcoin or bitcoins and we should thus, in my opinion, avoid linking the word "fiat" with bitcoins.

No, I will not avoid "linking" the word fiat with Bitcoin because that is what Bitcoin or any other currency that has no intrinsic value is. Fiat.  You may not like that and even choose only the definitions that support your position, but it is what it is.  Fiat.

I am not picking definitions at will. Fiat means decree thus indicating central authority. I tried to be polite but:
http://goo.gl/fQX918

[neutrinox]

Here's why we shouldn't be too worried about bitcoin being "ruined" by allowing US government to track it:

1. It will help bitcoin go mainstream and give it a better reputation among laymen
2. This means all those investing in bitcoin will become filthy rich
3. Liberals, anarchists and those who need bitcoin for criminal use will just develop an alt-coin with focus around anonymity
4. US government looses. It has made bitcoin mainstream without gaining any real benefits (because of the alts).

[notme]

The word "fiat" means a decree or a dictate thus indicating a central authority. This does obviously not apply to Bitcoin or bitcoins and we should thus, in my opinion, avoid linking the word "fiat" with bitcoins.

No, I will not avoid "linking" the word fiat with Bitcoin because that is what Bitcoin or any other currency that has no intrinsic value is. Fiat.  You may not like that and even choose only the definitions that support your position, but it is what it is.  Fiat.

I am not picking definitions at will. Fiat means decree thus indicating central authority. I tried to be polite but:
http://goo.gl/fQX918

And he is using the definition from wikipedia's "Fiat Money" page.  I'm not saying I agree with him, but he already linked to his definition, so linking to a conflicting definition won't get you anywhere.

[freethink2013]

The word "fiat" means a decree or a dictate thus indicating a central authority. This does obviously not apply to Bitcoin or bitcoins and we should thus, in my opinion, avoid linking the word "fiat" with bitcoins.

No, I will not avoid "linking" the word fiat with Bitcoin because that is what Bitcoin or any other currency that has no intrinsic value is. Fiat.  You may not like that and even choose only the definitions that support your position, but it is what it is.  Fiat.

Think I mentioned tally sticks in an earlier thread. bitcoin is an advanced version of that concept. iou's 2.0

nothing wrong with fiat per se. i dare say that even fractional reserve banking isn't the devil it made out to be. It provided capital to business where there was none. the issue has been our economy became dependant on junk futures.

[maz]

Here's why we shouldn't be too worried about bitcoin being "ruined" by allowing US government to track it:

1. It will help bitcoin go mainstream and give it a better reputation among laymen
2. This means all those investing in bitcoin will become filthy rich
3. Liberals, anarchists and those who need bitcoin for criminal use will just develop an alt-coin with focus around anonymity
4. US government looses. It has made bitcoin mainstream without gaining any benefits because of the alts.

See, I don't mind criminals using it. It will probably be one of the biggest user's of bitcoin in the end. I suppose I could feel ethically bad for believing that, but at the end of the day it's not believers in bitcoin responsibility to police the world and how it uses currency.

[neutrinox]

See, I don't mind criminals using it. It will probably be one of the biggest user's of bitcoin in the end. I suppose I could feel ethically bad for believing that, but at the end of the day it's not believers in bitcoin responsibility to police the world and how it uses currency.

I actually don't mind that either. Especially for drugs, because I think drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place.

I'm just saying that while US regulations might seem depressing, they wont really be very effective. The cat is out of the bag and if they succeed in sweet-talking bitcoin devs to accept tracking, the next crypto with a more strict privacy outlook will be just around the corner. No matter what US gov does, people will have more freedom because of cryptocurrency.

[2_Thumbs_Up]

2) The word you are looking for is "fiduciary". "Fiat" means "let it be" and thus means that someone is in control.

fiat
ˈfiːat,ˈfʌɪat/
noun
1.
a formal authorization or proposition; a decree.
"the reforms left most prices fixed by government fiat"

Fiat money has been defined variously as:
any money declared by a government to be legal tender.[1]
state-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[2]
money without intrinsic value.[3][4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

Bitcoin has ZERO value, except what we all agree it is worth.  Just like USD.  In fact, given the fabric USD is printed on, it's fair to say USD is actually "worth" more.  

If you actually followed the source wikipedia links to, it says the following:

I use the term fiat or abstract paper money interchangeably to stand for a government supplied means of payment of no intrinsic worth.

So not even your own source actually supports your claim. It's just Wikipedia messing up.

[Sword Smith]

The word "fiat" means a decree or a dictate thus indicating a central authority. This does obviously not apply to Bitcoin or bitcoins and we should thus, in my opinion, avoid linking the word "fiat" with bitcoins.

No, I will not avoid "linking" the word fiat with Bitcoin because that is what Bitcoin or any other currency that has no intrinsic value is. Fiat.  You may not like that and even choose only the definitions that support your position, but it is what it is.  Fiat.

I am not picking definitions at will. Fiat means decree thus indicating central authority. I tried to be polite but:
http://goo.gl/fQX918

And he is using the definition from wikipedia's "Fiat Money" page.  I'm not saying I agree with him, but he already linked to his definition, so linking to a conflicting definition won't get you anywhere.

That is true. And this is also why I warned against semantic discussions btw. But when you seek to define words, one should always look at their etymology (origin) and not different uses since many words can be used for conflicting meanings. Take the word "liberal". In europe it means "seeker of freedom" = libertarian or classical liberals like John Locke. In the US "liberal" means social liberal who are inspired by Rousseau or even the social democratic movement with emphasis on the so-called positive freedoms (as defined by Isaiah Berlin). Many words can mean anything you please if you do not go to their root. Then their meaning usually becomes unambigues. Like "fiat."

[Coinseeker]

If you actually followed the source wikipedia links to, it says the following:

I use the term fiat or abstract paper money interchangeably to stand for a government supplied means of payment of no intrinsic worth.

So not even your own source actually supports your claim. It's just Wikipedia messing up.

Not sure why this bothers some of you so much.  There is government fiat, now digital fiat, clam shell fiat, etc, etc.  As freethink just said, fiat isn't necessarily a bad thing.  It's not bad that USD is fiat in that sense.  What's bad about USD is that it is debt based.  It enters the system as debt.  It would actually be nice if the treasury would just issue sovereign money and break capital holders grip on our economy.  But they can't/won't because they are in debt to the capital holders.  Some of you worry about the small things and don't really see the big picture at work here.

[freethink2013]

The word "fiat" means a decree or a dictate thus indicating a central authority. This does obviously not apply to Bitcoin or bitcoins and we should thus, in my opinion, avoid linking the word "fiat" with bitcoins.

No, I will not avoid "linking" the word fiat with Bitcoin because that is what Bitcoin or any other currency that has no intrinsic value is. Fiat.  You may not like that and even choose only the definitions that support your position, but it is what it is.  Fiat.

I am not picking definitions at will. Fiat means decree thus indicating central authority. I tried to be polite but:
http://goo.gl/fQX918

And he is using the definition from wikipedia's "Fiat Money" page.  I'm not saying I agree with him, but he already linked to his definition, so linking to a conflicting definition won't get you anywhere.

That is true. And this is also why I warned against semantic discussions btw. But when you seek to define words, one should always look at their etymology (origin) and not different uses since many words can be used for conflicting meanings. Take the word "liberal". In europe it means "seeker of freedom" = libertarian or classical liberal like John Locke. In the US "liberal" means social liberal who are inspired by Rousseau or even the social democratic movement with emphasis on the so-called positive freedoms (as defined by Isaiah Berlin). Many words can mean anything you please if you do not go to their root. Then their meaning usually becomes unambigues. Like "fiat."

Great point

[Sword Smith]

If you actually followed the source wikipedia links to, it says the following:

I use the term fiat or abstract paper money interchangeably to stand for a government supplied means of payment of no intrinsic worth.

So not even your own source actually supports your claim. It's just Wikipedia messing up.

Not sure why this bothers some of you so much.  There is government fiat, now digital fiat, clam shell fiat, etc, etc.  As freethink just said, fiat isn't necessarily a bad thing.  It's not bad that USD is fiat in that sense.  What's bad about USD is that it is debt based.  It enters the system as debt.  It would actually be nice if the treasury would just issue sovereign money and break capital holders grip on our economy.

Fiat means decree which is the anti-thesis to Bitcoin. That is why it bothers me.

[ChartBuddy]

[notme]

If you actually followed the source wikipedia links to, it says the following:

I use the term fiat or abstract paper money interchangeably to stand for a government supplied means of payment of no intrinsic worth.

So not even your own source actually supports your claim. It's just Wikipedia messing up.

Not sure why this bothers some of you so much.  There is government fiat, now digital fiat, clam shell fiat, etc, etc.  As freethink just said, fiat isn't necessarily a bad thing.  It's not bad that USD is fiat in that sense.  What's bad about USD is that it is debt based.  It enters the system as debt.  It would actually be nice if the treasury would just issue sovereign money and break capital holders grip on our economy.

Fiat means decree which is the anti-thesis to Bitcoin. That is why it bothers me.

The decree is right here: http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Everyone here has accepted bitcoin as the implementation of that decree.

[Coinseeker]

Fiat means decree which is the anti-thesis to Bitcoin. That is why it bothers me.

Well you have the full right to stay bothered by it.  Me, I'm going to keep saying what I want, as my ignore button clearly reflects.  And you are certainly free to join my entourage any time you like.  

[Sword Smith]

Fiat means decree which is the anti-thesis to Bitcoin. That is why it bothers me.

Well you have the full right to stay bothered by it.  Me, I'm going to keep saying what I want, as my ignore button clearly reflects.  And you are certainly free to join my entourage any time you like.  

Nah. It takes a little more than that to get on my ignore list

Love this thread btw. <3