Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[nanobrain]

It seems to me that rather than being a contrived fall driven by a few players this correction is the result of a number of conflating factors:
thin volume across all the exchanges late in the week
bad news from China
investors taking profits for Christmas.
That final point doesn't seem to register much here but that's what people do - spend money at Christmas - and money is flowing out of not just BTC but all the alts too.  I'd suggest normal service will be resumed in the new year.

[Richy_T]

Let's say only 300000 people own bitcoins today and they all decide to hoard their coins for 20 years. How will this new money spread to the rest of the population?

Let's say dollar bills turned into butterflies and flew away and all the Chinese decided to jump into the air at exactly the same moment...




Hah. How about we go for a realistic example. Say there was a small group of people who whenever they spent some of their dollars, there was an organization that would print up some more and give it to them. And it wasn't even illegal. Suppose now that there was another currency where when you spent it, it was gone no matter who you are or who you know.

[User705]

Wonder if the wall at 400 will want to be a buyer if it gets to 400?

[CryptStorm]

My bids patiently waiting at $400ish. Not moving them a bit yet. If they don't get filled I will just withdraw the money and put it to other uses.

Not looking too good for the short term bulls IMO.

do you really need more hookers and blow?      

Man I tried to choose my words wisely, how come did you read my mind?

what else is fiat good for?  

Idiomatically, it is not only good for hookers and coke, but limousines.

[rpietila]

We are simply returning to "pre china" numbers. Chinese are dumping hard. They controlled the huge price increase now they control the decline.

BTCChina price is more than 10% higher than other markets now.

Yeah LOL during the last hour or so dumped BTC300 to China.. they are buying, not selling now

[Erdogan]

Bitcoin is by design encouraging saving and thus attracts people who would like to save. (But have only shitty ways of doing so thanks to the inflationary monetary system  )

The is the argument against a gold (or bitcoin) standard by the FED and banking status quo.

Under today's credit fiat system, it makes no sense to "save" money in currency since it continuously inflates. Instead savers are suppose to invest the money into businesses, capital spending, stocks, etc.

The problem is today no one saves this way, instead savers (those with disposable income over expenses) spend money frivolously on vacations/restaurants/crap instead of saving for the long term, and many of those who do invest do so in bubble type assets (i.e. large houses).

The fiat credit system is suppose to work in theory, but in practice it obviously does not. Hence bitcoin. It provides a real escape for true savers.

Saving is good, hoarding like a lunatic is not.

Confession: My name (pseudonym) is Erdogan, and I am addicted to the austrian economics.

Everything that is produced, has to be consumed or invested (in capital goods). When you buy a car, you pay with your work. Or, even easier to understand: when a farmer buys a pair of rubber boots, he really pays with potatoes. The money is just oil in the trading machinery. Money has to be maximally tradable, and it has to keep its value in the short run and the long run.

The two main functions of money, medium of exchange and store of value, are closely related, and you can not have the one, and not the other.

When you save money, you let other people consume what you do not consume. All saving is for the purpose of spending later. Tomorrow, next summer, when you retire, or by your descendants in the next few generations.

Hoarding is just a derogtive name for for saving, and the hate is undeserved. What is bad with letting some needy child getting in front of you in the toilette queue?

The savers (hoarders) deserve to be able to spend the full value of their savings when they later decide to spend.

With bitcoin, of course, you will be able to spend more. That is because bitcoin, the new money, is in the implementation phase. When you save in bitcoin, you do not just save, you are also an entrepreneur. You are paid for your knowledge and vision, by giving the world a better money.

The bitcoiners saw all that they had made, and it was very good.

Let's say only 300000 people own bitcoins today and they all decide to hoard their coins for 20 years. How will this new money spread to the rest of the population?

Everybody has a price for letting go of some of their coins. The actual price of bitcoin is arbituary. You need only one of those people to let go of one coin, and the world will have enough to do their business. In short, hoarding bitcoin harms noone.

Compare that to gold, which have some intrinsic value, also called value for direct use. Many applications where gold could be useful, are now out of reach because gold has money value. For example, gold could be the perfect material for a heat pipe in a compact computer. But no, it is too expensive.

Now imagine if food was money. In fact, dried fish was in fact money around these parts a few hundred years ago. How many people starved because of that?

The perfect money has no intrinsic value. Hoarding coins harms noone.

[CryptStorm]

Guys, I just came back from the first day of the Latin America BitConf, here in Buenos Aires !

Roger Ver, Erik Vorhees, Jeff Garzik, Tony Gallippi, Andreas Antonopoulos and several others are all here..

Let me tell you, it was amazing !

The place was crowded (~750 people attended) and we had some very very nice talks. I was especially amazed by Andres Antonopoulos, whom tbh was one of the few I didn't know beforehand.

(low point was Josh's talk "The future of mining" which consisted mainly of slides about the basics of Bitcoin......)

Never mind this crash, THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT !!

Wow! That sounds wonderful! THAT is the stuff that Bitcoin is made of-- we all need to remember how hard these big waves can be, and that the fruit of Bitcoin is still some years off. I for one, am weaning myself off of the trigger trading (thanks for teaching me, you big fucking piece of shit exchanges that suck balls, and assmonkey manipulator fucknuts). 

[niothor]

Wonder if the wall at 400 will want to be a buyer if it gets to 400?

I don't know if that 5000 wall will stay there but , before it , I guarantee at least 100 will buy defend the price like idiots.

[Erdogan]

Bitcoin is by design encouraging saving and thus attracts people who would like to save. (But have only shitty ways of doing so thanks to the inflationary monetary system  )

The is the argument against a gold (or bitcoin) standard by the FED and banking status quo.

Under today's credit fiat system, it makes no sense to "save" money in currency since it continuously inflates. Instead savers are suppose to invest the money into businesses, capital spending, stocks, etc.

The problem is today no one saves this way, instead savers (those with disposable income over expenses) spend money frivolously on vacations/restaurants/crap instead of saving for the long term, and many of those who do invest do so in bubble type assets (i.e. large houses).

The fiat credit system is suppose to work in theory, but in practice it obviously does not. Hence bitcoin. It provides a real escape for true savers.

Saving is good, hoarding like a lunatic is not.

Confession: My name (pseudonym) is Erdogan, and I am addicted to the austrian economics.

Everything that is produced, has to be consumed or invested (in capital goods). When you buy a car, you pay with your work. Or, even easier to understand: when a farmer buys a pair of rubber boots, he really pays with potatoes. The money is just oil in the trading machinery. Money has to be maximally tradable, and it has to keep its value in the short run and the long run.

The two main functions of money, medium of exchange and store of value, are closely related, and you can not have the one, and not the other.

When you save money, you let other people consume what you do not consume. All saving is for the purpose of spending later. Tomorrow, next summer, when you retire, or by your descendants in the next few generations.

Hoarding is just a derogtive name for for saving, and the hate is undeserved. What is bad with letting some needy child getting in front of you in the toilette queue?

The savers (hoarders) deserve to be able to spend the full value of their savings when they later decide to spend.

With bitcoin, of course, you will be able to spend more. That is because bitcoin, the new money, is in the implementation phase. When you save in bitcoin, you do not just save, you are also an entrepreneur. You are paid for your knowledge and vision, by giving the world a better money.

The bitcoiners saw all that they had made, and it was very good.

Agree with some of the economics (although I am a Keynesian).

However, we are not gods - we are believers.  There is a difference.

Hehe, nonbeliever here, I just had to loan and adapt this elegant phrase from the bible.

I know and I can forgive you.  It's nice to see economics theory here instead of mathemetics and physics for a change.  It is supposed to be a child board of 'Economics' after all...

Thanks mate.

[adamstgBit]

OK bottle of wine #2

the future of bitcoin looks bright indeed!

[Richy_T]

OK bottle of wine #2

the future of bitcoin looks bright indeed!

Think I'll join you. Cheers.

[Erdogan]

Hemisferio Sauvignon Blanc 2012. Makes my words roll off my keyboard like stardust.

[adamstgBit]

OK bottle of wine #2

the future of bitcoin looks bright indeed!

Think I'll join you. Cheers.

[Erdogan]

And I applaud the new "unwatch" function.

[adamstgBit]

price appears to be stabilizing.

bears failed to leave any wall behind their panic selling

tomorrow will be fun.

[DaRude]

price appears to be stabilizing.

bears failed to leave any wall behind their panic selling

tomorrow will be fun.

also 2k waiting to buy till 650 seemed to stop the last attempt

[adamstgBit]

price appears to be stabilizing.

bears failed to leave any wall behind their panic selling

tomorrow will be fun.

also 2k waiting to buy till 650 seemed to stop the last attempt

its always the same story just with a different price.

[DaRude]

plus china pulling out seems to give more confidence to bulls. If it'll hold tonight tomorrow might be fun

[Erdogan]

So what could be the fundamental reason for this crash? China? The news were positive in my view. Mr. Greenspan's bubbly comments? Does the man really have that much influence any more?

We know that there is a fundamental exponential rise for bitcoin, but we do not know the parameters of the exponential function: its starting point and it's daily percentage of increase. In addition to that underlaying function is of course the speculators.

Maybe the speculators (us) just got it wrong this time?

[windjc]

price appears to be stabilizing.

bears failed to leave any wall behind their panic selling

tomorrow will be fun.

also 2k waiting to buy till 650 seemed to stop the last attempt

its always the same story just with a different price.

I have a feeling we are in store for another week or two (or month) of bad news. Its just a hunch. If news were a stock, it is still way over bought on the "good news" side.  These things tend to happen in cycles.

Also, does it really feel like capitulation to anyone?  I mean, yeah we could make a run for $1000 again, but who is buying above that right now?

We need some sentiment shift. We NEED as many bears as we can get. I say this with 60% of my bitcoins in storage that I will not touch for a long time. So, yeah, our net worth goes down. But let's ring out this towel. How about we go to $400. Why don't we have a decent % of traders jump ship.

Let the news cycle pan bitcoin. Let bankers and banks mock it and scoff at it.

We need some pain to even things out. Let it go down, consolidate for AT LEAST a month or so and let doubt set in with many.

Then we can find joy in going up again. Once its no longer expected.